Topic: Matt's latest: "Revolution as a console is merely a vehicle for the new controller"

[trip1eX]

The REvolution is not just a vehicle for the controller.  The Revolution and all Nintendo platforms are vehicles for Nintendo software.  They make a lot more money making software for their own console.  

Nintendo isn't investing 'extra' money to make its console small and portable.  The small and portable aspect is a byproduct of it's lesser power because it doesn't need to do hi-def.

Don't make the assumption that more power leads to NIntendo making more money either.  MS lost $4 bil bringing the Xbox to the market and continue to lose alot of dough on the 360.  

Nah Nintendo is going a route where the games are going to look pretty good.  From what I hear they are doing 480p in their games.  That should make big hdtv owners happy.  Those games will look great.  WE still have a long ways to go at 480p.  Pop in a DVD sometime to see what I'm talking about.  And the playing experience is going to feel alot better with the Revolution  than with the competition.  

 

[jasonditz]

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Originally posted by: Kairon

The 3D space shooter one could easily work with the revmote and would benefit from it. Space flight is essentially 3D and the controller could succeed in either replicating a joystiq for a sim-like feel or be used to create an intuitive fluid piloting system much like the mouseflight option from Freelancer. I too have pondered with how to viscerally catch the thrill of skimming a space ship close to the surface of an asteroid just to execute a beautifully tight turn.

The revmote would be great for the smaller fighters and other single man crafts, but I'd hope they would have radically different control schemes based on what kind of ship you pilot... I bet you could do a pretty good job piloting some of the bigger capitol ships with just the D-pad and buttons, and maybe use the movement feature as an optional way to enter course corrections.

That way it could be a fluid, action-based fighter game, or it could be a slow, stately game of space combat if you're controlling one of the big ships.

[trip1eX]

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Originally posted by: mantidor
haha Ian, your complains are basically that Nintendo's business plans dont revolve around your tastes, ...

Actually that's  not true.    He's a negative person.  So no matter what he will complain.  He's just being negative.  Nintendo does A and not B means B is great and A sucks.  lol.

Anyway I agree with Ian.  The REvolution will be a total failure and NIntendo will implode.   Everything they are doing is wrong.  

Of course I forgot.  Ian loves Nintendo so.  And he always goes out of his way to show it.    

[trip1eX]

OH I think Matt is wrong about the REv not looking as good as the 360.  I think on sdtvs the difference between the REv and the rest will be minor.  The reason being is that the 360 and the like won't be using their full power on sdtvs because the games have to be developed first for 720p.  

Now I'm not expecting miracles, but you know 3x the power of the Cube will look great.  It's more about presentation anyway.  The artwork.  A cohesive style.  The frame rate.  And putting in enough details to convey a certain feeling.  It's not about dotting every 'i' and crossing every 't.'  

[Requiem]

Wow, interesting thread.

It almost turned into a Jerry Springer type brawl of repitition, but now it seems to have cooled down.

Ian. I see you thinking over there. Your games ideas are cool. I like the fighting one, but there's something you should realize.




Everyone of those games would be better with the NRC and nunchuck attachment. Every single one.

Let me demonstrate since I am the self elected game control specialist.

3-D shooter
---------------------

With the NRC you can posess any vehicle and command it through reflex.

I am guessing you are talking about a game more in tune with Rouge Squadron and not Starfox is terms of display. This would mean that the ship is fixed into the middle of the screen at all times.

The nunchuck attachment's analogue stick would control how fast your fighter flys. Holding forward is very vast, while back is a smooth slow glide.

For the next part, let's imagine the ship is flying around on earth.

Imagine holding the NRC like a remote, with the front pointed towards the tv. The NRC will control nose of the ship as well as the body. For example, if you point down then you will fall towards the ground. Now twisting the NRC will make the ship twist. So to get through a tight spot, you may twist the controller to orientate yourself vertically. No need for shoulder buttons, this solution is far more intuitive.

The "b" button would fire. To make tight turns you simply slow down, point and twist left.

That's all. Simple yet perfectly intuitive. Also, it would be fun just to throw the damn thing in the air to see what happens. As fun as that game sounds on the cube, the REV has it beat in everyway.

Weapon's fighting game
------------------------------

I would enjoy playing a Zelda-esque fighter. Ever since playing OOT, I've had this "want" to play a more tactical, more strategic fighting game. This game could be incredibly engrossing with the NRC; much more realistic than anything before it.

The controls would be simple. The nunchuck attachment is for movement, shield, and crouching. The NRC is for your sword, other items, evasion, and magic.

You attack with the NRC. The sword will mimmick whatever you do in real life. If you want to block a high blow with your sword instead of your sheild you can (and you may have to). However, your sword can be given either complicated arm movements, or pre-configured wrist flicks. The difference is this: you can either make your own move, such as a stab or wide horizontal stroke; re-oreintate your sword; or, flick your wrist in the angle you would like the sword to slash. This is the defining mechanic of the game.

When you put up your sheild, by holding one of the trigger buttons on the nunchuck, the NRC will allow you complete control. This would be helpful in blocking certian sword strokes or batting a sword stroke away so you can counter. Also, crouching and shielding will allow you to withstand more powerful blows. This could turn out to be a very rewarding aspect of the game.

The d-pad will handle items and magic which is fully-customizable. I don't know what the B-trigger could be used for, maybe firing your item or magic attacks.

The "A" button would handle evasion very similar to Zelda. However, rolling would be done by crouching and moving the analogue stick left or right.

That's all.

Police Chase Game
------------------------------

Basically what Kairon described. The view would go into over-the shoulder when holding one of the nun-chuck's triggers down. The camera would swivel from left to right as you aim your NRC. Pressing "B" fires.

When just plain driving (handled by the joystick, with "A" as gas, "B" as the handbrake), the NRC would allow you to look left and right by simply pointing left and right. This will give you a chance not only to see who is left and right of you, but to setup the camera before you enter "shooting mode".

The only problem I see is that you can't hit the handbrake and shoot at the sametime. That's not such a big problem since you can't do that in real life anyways.

And there it is........proof that each game would work alot better than it's traditional counterpart. That last sentence is the reason why we want the REV to suceed and why we have so much faith in the "reinventing of the wheel."

[Mario]

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Nintendo thinks people are bored of gaming as is and thus gaming has to be completely reinvented.

They don't think that at all. They think people WILL become bored of gaming, and are preventing it from happening. Foresight!

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Mario used to sell systems. The mere presence of Mario sold consoles like hotcakes. Mario didn't sell Cubes. No Nintendo franchise sold Cubes.

Breaking news! None of us actually own GameCubes!

[Magik]

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"Ummm if Mario doesn't mean ****, then why has it sold so much?!"

Not as much when you compare it to the past Mario games.  Ian does bring up a good point in that Mario doesn't sell systems like it use to.

As to why it continues to sell 'well', it's mainly because its the same people buying the Mario titles.

[IceCold]

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. New ideas ruin a series if the ideas are forced. Pikmin 2 has many new ideas but they don't feel forced. The waterpack in Super Mario Sunshine felt forced like they all sat in a room and thought "we have to be innovative, what can we do?"

Please don't say that as if it's the absolute fact.. That is simply your opinion. I thought the waterpack was brilliant, and to me, it most certainly was NOT one of the flaws in Sunshine..

And, as someone else mentioned, would it kill you to try to at least recognise the potential of the controller? Saying that it is imprecise and it doesn't add functionality and it can't replace buttons is just being ignorant, especially since all reports indicate otherwise. We haven't yet completely seen what the NRC can do, so until then, it's all speculation. We can only discuss the potential of it and ideas for it..

[Hostile Creation]

I don't see how anything necessarily has to do with becoming bored of gaming.  The way I see it, this is a step closer to fully immersive games, SUPERIOR gaming environments,  more tangible and more compelling and more fun.  There are more possibilities with an immersive game world.  Controllers are swell, but it's chiseling words into stone when you have writing, and publishing, and then photography and art and film and the internet.  It's ancient, and there are far, far better things.

[nemo_83]

Don't know if ya'll noticed but Matt has put up an editorial titled Planet Revolution.

[eljefe]

I'll respond to others later

but to answer nemo83's initial question:

yes, a new console is needed

because it is not simply a vehicle fer the 'remote'.

Wait until E3.. if the last secret(s) revealed about the Rev are not more groundbreaking than the remote (or at least worthwhile w/o it)

we will all be entitled to call the console a sparkling innovationy-cheap-trick by Nintendo.


I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: nemo_83
Don't know if ya'll noticed but Matt has put up an editorial titled Planet Revolution.

Yeah. It annoyed me.

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Just because Revolution is less powerful doesn't automatically mean that software houses working on it will make cheaper games....studios can just as easily make an inexpensive game for 360 or PlayStation 3 as they can on Revolution. And therefore, Nintendo cannot hold to that.

Like the DS, Nintendo is giving developers permission to use less-expensive graphics, which is, honestly, something they don't have on the competition. Sure, I game that looked like Feel the Magic could've been made on the PSP. but, on that platform, a game that mixed low-poly 3d models and 2d graphics wouldn't have sold.

Oh, and:

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Based on developer reports, the Big N's next platform is set to be about twice as powerful as a GameCube, which is a leap, but not a quantum one.

Quantum leaps are small, not large!

But I suppose his heart is in the right place.

[Strell]

Hmm.  I don't believe it to be coincidental.  That means Matt is watching us.

Matt, you guys have any positions open for a writer/reviewer/low-level errand boy?  I'm your man.  Feel free to drop me a line.  Willing to move!    College grad in creative writing, woo!

[Rhoq]

The last paragraph from Matt's editorial has piqued my interest. He clearly knows more than he's at liberty to divulge right now (probably under an NDA until E3, at the very least).

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Originally posted by: Matt Casamassina @ IGN Revolution
I believe that Revolution is Nintendo's most ambitious console to date and I really think the company is on to something big. Certainly the DS proves that consumers are looking for something fresh. Revolution is that and more. The hardware is slick. The games will be there. The price point is right. And, unlike GameCube, Revolution is unlike any other platform in the market. I wouldn't make the mistake of categorizing the hardware as a niche endeavor. I think it's more mainstream - true mainstream - than any other videogame system ever. If Nintendo can capitalize on that, and I'm beginning to think it just might, the little console without high-definition graphics may be the system that everybody wants.

It looks to me like he's already played some games which will most likely be shown at E3 (he probably can't say anything until sometime in April, as mentioned in his blog). It also looks like he might know the Revolution's MSRP (probably to be announced at E3 along with the street date).

 

[mantidor]

Im sure he knows more, the editorial's opening paragraph confirms my point he's a graphic's whore and a big one, yet he seems really excited about the console, and given past editorials and mailbags, the change of attitude towards Nintendo is huge, The rev did the imposible, it changed Matt! could it change Ian!? stay tuned

[Rhoq]

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Originally posted by: mantidor
Im sure he knows more, the editorial's opening paragraph confirms my point he's a graphic's whore and a big one, yet he seems really excited about the console, and given past editorials and mailbags, the change of attitude towards Nintendo is huge, The rev did the imposible, it changed Matt!

He's never hidden the fact that he's a graphics whore. In just about every mailbail where graphics were mentioned he would usually make that quite clear. But I know what you're saying - his excitement is indeed good news. I think that because he works for IGN, he gets a bad rap (guilty by association). I've always found most of his work to be fairly honest.

Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
could it change Ian!? stay tuned

Poor Ian. I know he means well.

[trip1eX]

Yeah the Matt guy has said before that he knows about quite a few Rev projects that he can't comment on yet and it does look like he's been able to play with the controller a bit.  

I honestly think the experience is going to feel way better in many games than then old analog sticks.  

The only problem is that MS and Sony will copy the thing if it's good.  Hell they are probably working on it now.    ...because I wouldn't doubt that they've played with the controller too.  

[jasonditz]

Quote
Originally posted by: wandering

Quote


Oh, and:

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Based on developer reports, the Big N's next platform is set to be about twice as powerful as a GameCube, which is a leap, but not a quantum one.

Quantum leaps are small, not large!

But I suppose his heart is in the right place.

Actually, couldn't it refer to a leap in a specific whole number quantity? In which case he's wrong anyhow.

[RiskyChris]

In physics, the movement of an electron from one orbit in an atom to another, sending out or taking on a photon in the process. (See Bohr atom.)

# Informally, a “quantum leap” may be any great, sudden, or discontinuous change.

Wow the English language has multiple definitions based on context?!

[jasonditz]

It's still a discontinuous change (which is to say, from one discrete quanta to another)... it's not like the Revolution is going to start out at the same speed as the Cube and gradually work its way up to twice as fast or something...  

[RiskyChris]

Quote
Originally posted by: jasonditz
It's still a discontinuous change (which is to say, from one discrete quanta to another)... it's not like the Revolution is going to start out at the same speed as the Cube and gradually work its way up to twice as fast or something...

Which means Matt was right =)

[Requiem]

Right, but still ignorant.

[Ian Sane]

Little late here but...

"The Police Chase game I have yet to see truly differentiated from True Crime. Still, with elements both of a brawler, you could use the revmote to physically beat a rival drug dealer to death or to wildly aim your gun behind you during a car chase: drive with the nunchuck's analog, aim out the window with your freehand."

The police chase game is actually a driving game.  I should have specified it as car chases.  There's no getting out in beating up crooks.  It's just chasing someone until you catch them or you can't continue to pursuit because your car is too wrecked.

I thought of an idea for the space battle game.  I wonder if the motion sensor of the remote works when the shell is attached.  If so imagine a wavebird with motion control.  Hold it in front of you and it's kind of a like a wheel for a plane or in this case space ship.  All the extra buttons are there for different weapons and such.  The only problem with this is that after a couple minutes your arms would get tired and think that's a big problem with the remote.  I see the potential arm fatigue from swinging this thing all over the place as a big issue.

I see a lot of potential in the remote but not as a standard controller.  I see it like a lightgun in that it's appropriate for some titles but, due to the lack of buttons and the sheer annoyance it would be to wave something around for multiple hours at a time, not for all.  In some cases having something respond exactly as your movement will be really cool.  But in any situation where a button press would do a button press would be better due to the precision of digital buttons and the less physical effort required.  You have to admit that merely assigning gestures to replace buttons would be pretty lame.  In order for the remote to be a new standard as is that's going to happen.  Hell Nintendo even had that in their demo video in a shot where a girl was playing Mario and bouncing the controller up to jump.

I also don't like how the look of the remote is because it is unintimidating to non-gamers.  Controllers should be functional and comfortable.  I don't like it when marketing dictates the shape of a controller.  How is Nintendo making it look like a TV remote any different than MS putting that big X logo on their controller?

Looking at Matt's editorial that remote is really small.  I remember it looking much bigger.  That's actually probably good as it would make it feel more like you're moving your hand than something bigger would.

[Zach]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I thought of an idea for the space battle game.  I wonder if the motion sensor of the remote works when the shell is attached.  If so imagine a wavebird with motion control.  Hold it in front of you and it's kind of a like a wheel for a plane or in this case space ship.  All the extra buttons are there for different weapons and such.  The only problem with this is that after a couple minutes your arms would get tired and think that's a big problem with the remote.  I see the potential arm fatigue from swinging this thing all over the place as a big issue.

I dont really see that as a major problem like some people seem to.  The thing is, for some reason, when people see the controller, they seem to think that you are going to be waving it around constantly as fast as you can (The conductor of a symphony comes to mind).  Next time you play a game, pay attention to what your left thumb does, most games, it doesnt very much at all.  If games took as much movement as people seem to think from the rev controller, all of our thumbs would have fallen off years ago.

[wandering]

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I see a lot of potential in the remote but not as a standard controller. I see it like a lightgun in that it's appropriate for some titles but, due to the lack of buttons and the sheer annoyance it would be to wave something around for multiple hours at a time, not for all. In some cases having something respond exactly as your movement will be really cool. But in any situation where a button press would do a button press would be better due to the precision of digital buttons and the less physical effort required. You have to admit that merely assigning gestures to replace buttons would be pretty lame. In order for the remote to be a new standard as is that's going to happen. Hell Nintendo even had that in their demo video in a shot where a girl was playing Mario and bouncing the controller up to jump.

Ugg, think outside the box for once. The revmote detects motion on a true 3-d plane with incredible sensitivity...the first time anything like that has been offered on any games console. And that's 'not as precise'? I'll tell you what's not precise: when you push a button, your sword swings in a pre-determined way... except when it doesn't and the game decides you want to speak to a character instead. Want to hit an enemy that's beside you instead of in front? Well, maybe there's a button combo for that. Want to block an enemy's jab? Sorry, tough luck. When the revolution comes out, saying the revmote isn't  as good as button presses for performing actions in a 3-d world will be like saying the analogue stick isn't as good as the d-pad for controlling movement in a 3-d world.

Anyway. What your other concerns? Not enough buttons? The revmote has 3 buttons. 7 counting the d-pad, 9 counting the nunchaku. So no real worries there. Plus, the shell. But you know about that. Too physically exausting? People who have used the controller say it only requires subtle movements and is not in any way physically exausting.

Developers and reporters alike are in love with the controller. But, most importanly, Nintendo is in love with it, and feels it offers the best means for bringing their game concepts to life. As far as I can tell, your worries are unfounded.