Author Topic: Matt's latest: "Revolution as a console is merely a vehicle for the new controller"  (Read 30193 times)

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Offline nemo_83

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"Can’t believe that E3 2006 is only a couple of months away. The real debut of Nintendo’s next console and it’s almost here. I call it the real debut because up until now we’ve only seen the hardware and heard countless promises about its potential. That is, when Nintendo isn’t diving head first into marketing speak. Blue ocean. Red waters. All-access gaming. This is a company whose executives need some real games to talk about just so that they can stop repeating themselves.

Luckily, that time is almost here and it’s exciting. I find myself very optimistic about the big show and this is partly true because already I’m seeing active support from various third party publishers. Unexpectedly varied support. Sure, there are the kid games. THQ and Midway have them and, frankly, I expected more. But to my surprise, some third parties have really stepped up. Ubisoft’s mysterious first-person shooter. Activision with a rumored version of Call of Duty that takes full advantage of the Revmote. Midway with a few “grown up” efforts of its own. And smaller studios like Atlus with Trauma Center. This is to say nothing of SEGA’s sweet stuff or Capcom’s sweet stuff. There’s potential here. Lots.

By this time next month, I will have seen and/or played a handful of very promising Revolution games and will in turn have a much better understanding of the software on the horizon. Perhaps I’ll have a vastly different opinion or more likely my current enthusiasm will be validated. Regardless, I always love these periods. You don’t entirely know what to expect, but you’re jazzed about the possibilities.

E3 brings about the end of an era for IGNcube and IGN Revolution. For a couple years now we’ve been writing about a console that doesn’t really exist. We don’t have a previews section on IGN Revolution because there are no detailed/shown games. Oh, we know of a couple dozen titles in development, but we don’t know anything about them. Not really, anyway — except the obvious. I mean, I can tell you that Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles is on the way and that it’ll look good and support the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection, but beyond that we enter into the realm of speculation.

E3 changes that. There will be games. They will be playable. And hence, the transition from GameCube to Revolution will be complete. I love my GameCube and I’m looking forward to Zelda. But even so, I’m anticipating the jump.

I’ve been disappointed by Nintendo in the past. I believe it was E3 2004 that Shigeru Miyamoto touted a GCN demo of Pac-Man as the highlight of the Big N’s media briefing. Few in attendance would disagree that Nintendo’s show that year was under-whelming, to put it mildly. But I don’t expect to be disappointed this year.

I think the only people who might find themselves let down are those who still haven’t grasped what Nintendo is going for with Revolution. I read the boards and even now there are posters who still believe Revolution might be able to compete with Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 from a graphic horsepower standpoint. They tell themselves that it has to because Nintendo, IBM and ATI have spent the last five years developing tech.

Revolution will be adequately powerful, but people still holding out for the miracle are setting themselves up for a smack in the face. Power is not the focus here. Revolution as a console is merely a vehicle for the new controller. Think of it this way and you’re going to be happy. I’m going to be writing an editorial very soon that talks about this point.

At the same time, I don’t want to undersell the system’s graphical ability. Games like Resident Evil 4 and Black came about on consoles five years old. Revolution is certainly more capable and therefore the potential for some gorgeous software is there. I’m quite certain that Retro’s Metroid Prime 3 will be a stunner — and it’s going to play like no console game before it.

Can’t wait."



I'll start this show.  

If the "console" is just a vehicle for the controller, well, why do we even need the console; why isn't Nintendo just making the controller for 360 or PS3 or simply partnering with MS or Sony?  Or why aren't Nintendo partnering with someone to help them finance their own console like Apple or EA?

It is not a good thing for the Revolution to be a delivery machine for the controller, it will simply be a gim mick in the eyes of too many consumers; it is dangerous, more dangerous than investing the money into the hardware and software to match polygon and lighting effects standards found on 360 (which will be out a year when the Rev launches and will likely be priced similarly).

Why are Nintendo investing their money into the console being small and portable when the GameCube showed that angle doesn't work (and GCN had a graphical advantage and still failed).  Why aren't Nintendo investing their money in power.  Why do they not match the power of the competition and use the remote as their advantage rather than using it to justify the rehashing of hardware?  Why didn't they just release the remote for GCN?  Even if the tech was at an early stage, lacking the z axis, why didn't they just put gyros in the GCN controllers?

Once again I beg the question, why do we even need the Revolution?  Because Nintendo is holding Zelda hostage?  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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"Once again I beg the question, why do we even need the Revolution? Because Nintendo is holding Zelda hostage?"

Because console games are getting boring...
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Offline UncleBob

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Err... If that were the case, couldn't Nintendo just pretty much make the controller for the GCN even?  There's that extra port on the bottom and the software would just have to be written for it...  I think...
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Offline nemo_83

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"Because console games are getting boring..."

I agree with you on that whole heartedly, and I believe this new interface can breath life into old games too, but to be more specific, why do we need this console as it stands now as a delivery system for the interface rather than having this interface and Nintendo's software support on 360?



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Offline Bill Aurion

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Because Microsoft's hardware is horrible and Nintendo's hardware is superior in every sense of the word...
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Offline Mario

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The Revolution Controller can not be a GameCube add-on because then it wont be perceived as significant.

With the Revolution console Nintendo gets a fresh start, and a better image.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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"new," less outdated hardware is the price of admission for the next round of consoles and games.  Without that, Nintendo will easily "lose" when the advertising/attention war gets underway.
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Offline Invincible Donkey Kong

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Offline wandering

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I'm not sure what you're asking, nemo. You might as well ask why not just release all videogames on the pc and be done with consoles.

The revolution is going to be a very, very nice package. Incredible controllers that are infinintley expandle and integrate seamlessly and wirelessly with the console. The ability to download 3 generations worth of great Nintendo games. Great graphics that will allow advanced textures and lighting effects, many more things happening on screen at once, etc....even though they won't be quite as impressive as the competition. Signifigantly reduced load times from the competition. Signifigantly reduced price from the competition. Free and easy online service.

And, most importanlty of all, lots of great games.

Oh, one more thing:
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(and GCN had a graphical advantage and still failed). Why aren't Nintendo investing their money in power.

I think the first sentence answers the second....

edit, and one last thing:
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why do we need this console as it stands now as a delivery system for the interface rather than having this interface and Nintendo's software support on 360?

If the rev controller was a third-party add-on peripheral for the 360, how many games do you think would utilize it? More to the point, why would Nintendo want to throw away all the money they receive from 3rd party licensing?
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Offline Dasmos

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Quote

Originally posted by: nemo_83
I'll start this show.  

If the "console" is just a vehicle for the controller, well, why do we even need the console; why isn't Nintendo just making the controller for 360 or PS3 or simply partnering with MS or Sony?  Or why aren't Nintendo partnering with someone to help them finance their own console like Apple or EA?
Who would be in control then? Nintendo, the company who made the controller or the company who owns the rest? Also this means that developers are less inclined to make games that use the controller.

Microsoft and Sony could have made controller like Nintendo at any stage, they chose not to. They chose not to go in the direction Nintendo is going, so why if Nintendo offered to share it with them would they go along? It hasn't proved successful, so why should Microsoft or Sony gamble what they have already got on something like this? Nintendo takes chances, Nintendo tries to innovate, the truth is the other companies do not. They will what has proven successful, but I wouldn't count on them trying to create something innovative just yet.
Quote

Why are Nintendo investing their money into the console being small and portable when the GameCube showed that angle doesn't work (and GCN had a graphical advantage and still failed).  Why aren't Nintendo investing their money in power.  
Could this be the most contradictive comment of all time?
Quote

Why do they not match the power of the competition and use the remote as their advantage rather than using it to justify the rehashing of hardware?
It is an advantage. Can you honestly say you're impressed with Xbox 360 graphics? Impressed to the point that you would over look Nintendo's system because of it? I certainly hope not.

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Offline jasonditz

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Nintendo wants more than just a new controller. The Revolution is providing standard online gaming, it's providing downloadable content, etc.

Offline nemo_83

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Nintendo really needs to show some target videos.  I have no doubt in their ability to match and exceed their targets as they have always done in the past.  

The GameCube was powerful but lacked a true difference between it and the other consoles outside of power, the controller interface, many still complain to me that the GC controller is horrible (mostly because of the lack of buttons and the sticks, especially the cstick).  Revolution in my opinion must be powerful, it must match the competition in polygon and lighting effects; that is the entry fee, and the controller is what will define them positively from the competition this coming generation.  Plus the download service of course.  I have little problem with Nintendo waiting another five years before adopting 720p standards, but in five years, stereoscopics may be the hot new tech...

I still look forward to the day, not when the line between PC and console is blurred, but when the line between console and development kit is blurred.

i am kinda impressed by this, it gives me hope for what is possible in four years

and more so by this
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Offline Berto2K

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Nemo you worry about way too damn much stuff.  And it seems you haven't taken any business classes either from your backwards talking.  Lets see if I can take this apart anymore than someone else has for you so you won't have anything to complain about.

Quote

If the "console" is just a vehicle for the controller, well, why do we even need the console; why isn't Nintendo just making the controller for 360 or PS3 or simply partnering with MS or Sony? Or why aren't Nintendo partnering with someone to help them finance their own console like Apple or EA?

Because we all know that 3rd party add-ons and even first party ones aren't supported.  Why would they want to help their competition with something unique?  Apple doesn't do games, EA has a poor level of standards for games.  They are usually really buggy.

Quote

It is not a good thing for the Revolution to be a delivery machine for the controller, it will simply be a sparkling innovation in the eyes of too many consumers; it is dangerous, more dangerous than investing the money into the hardware and software to match polygon and lighting effects standards found on 360 (which will be out a year when the Rev launches and will likely be priced similarly).

Consumers are plain stupid.  Why do you think 50 cents game sold over 1 million units across xbox, ps2, and pc yet scored an average in the low 50s at gamerankings?  Consumers don't believe in gim micks.  They buy on hype, name and sometimes fun.  If the press is making a lot of noise about Rev they will take notice.  It only takes one game to turn heads usually too. With some exclusive titles from third parties already in the works and being ready for launch it will turn some heads.  And then you go start talking about hardware again as if you know anthing about how it is built....just shutup about it already.

Quote

Why are Nintendo investing their money into the console being small and portable when the GameCube showed that angle doesn't work (and GCN had a graphical advantage and still failed). Why aren't Nintendo investing their money in power. Why do they not match the power of the competition and use the remote as their advantage rather than using it to justify the rehashing of hardware? Why didn't they just release the remote for GCN? Even if the tech was at an early stage, lacking the z axis, why didn't they just put gyros in the GCN controllers?

Why would Nintendo who has never had a year of financial losses want to break that streak just to please a few million people worldwide?  As Mark Rein of Epic Games said at the IGN Live even a few months ago, even the 360 on SDTV looks great.  By making the revolution compete on a pixel and hardware level of the other two would cause Nintenedo to lose hundreds of dollars on each unit they sold.  Why would they want to do that when the VAST majority of game console owners around the globe will not have hdtv sets in the next few years?  There is still room for improvement in SDTV which Nintendo is looking to take advantage of through highly specialized hardware.  I think I answered bout the controler above already.

Quote

Once again I beg the question, why do we even need the Revolution? Because Nintendo is holding Zelda hostage?

Because as some have already said...gaming is becoming stagnant.  The DS is making a huge stir because of its unique hardware and the exlcusive games that can only be made on it because of the hardware.  It is different and is making people turn heads across the globe.  Nintendo is looking to do the same thing with Revolution in the console sector.  Make people turn their heads from new unique things that can only be done on their system because it is so different and unique.

You need to stop readin way too much into things seriously.  Especially the crap that Matt spews out as like it is his own PR speil. Why is  Matt beating a dead horse when there is no new info out?  He is trying to make people like you worry about nothing.  
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Offline Strell

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First thing is first: Matt whines 90% of the time, then defends Nintendo to others in rare acts of volition, and somehow this tends to overshadow the fact that he's an average whiner.  I believe Reggie said it best - "I remember the last time Matt made a game, it was called the mailbag."  (I can't remember if I've seen that quote here or at another site.)

That said, everyone else has pretty much disproven nemo's concerns, and quite well I might add.  There's enough functionality built into the Rev that it wouldn't work to just add it to the GC and attempt to compete.  That sort of thing would bite Nintendo in the ass.  

Besides, 2K development kit?  I honestly think we're going to have much more support this time around.  That alone demands that the Rev be released.
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Offline Fro

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Surprised to see no discussion on the fact that Matt hinted at several more titles in development.... Call of Duty, "a few" mature titles from Midway, "kidd-ie" games from THQ and Midway, and multiple games from Capcom and Sega.  

Offline UncleBob

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Offline MaryJane

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a few on nintendo's past e3 shows have been to put it nicely, sucky. they gave little to no information, and weren't very exciting. if there is a single person who knows what e3 is and isn't anticipating seeing what the revolution can do, whether out of pure curiousity, or interest, they don't have blood in their veins. Nintendo is going for the knockout punch this e3. while they may be graphically inferior, the games will still look beautiful. as that guy points out look at games that were released on the last gen systems.

you asked a lot of why's. the answer to all of them can be found in three words: Because they're Nintendo. whether you take that as a good thing or a bad thing depends on how you view nintendo's current strategy. last gen ps2 was the weakest in graphics yet sold the best. last gen the only good things xbox had going for it were halo and live. this gen the rev will be the weakest, have what is shaping up to be an amazing online system (i really really really hope they put an ethernet port on the rev) it will launch with an fps (fpa if you wanna be technical) that will far outshine halo and while it will be the weakest graphically i doubt it will be significant. now add in a controller that has gotten more buzz than anything else in video gaming for quite sometime. e3 is going to blow everyone away, just with how much information nintendo is going to throw out there. Sony's part in e3 will blow everyone away with how much hot air they blow in everyones face(lol i couldn't help myself).

i wish i could go on vacation until e3 so i could stop thinking about the rev and how much i want it.  
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Offline Strell

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Ok, I must not be remembering correctly.  But 2004 was the reveal of Zelda, which EVERYONE said stole the show.  That was also the start of the DS.  I believe it was also the debut of Reggie, who promptly owned all of us with his first sentence alone.  Between those things, Nintendo basically owned 2004.

2005 was much the same - a lot of Zelda and DS.  

I want to say it was 2003 where they showed Pacman Vs. was shown, and yea, that year sucked.  The previous years were passable at best.

Nintendo knows what to do at E3 most of the time.  THe fact that they've reserved the Kodak theatre this year means something big is going down.

Anyway, point being is that the last 2 years  
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Offline mantidor

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Matt said that because he is a graphic's whore, but I have no reason to think that Rev games will be graphically "inferior" to games like Gears of War in the same scale than for instance N64 graphics compared to GC, which is what everyone thinks its going to end up happening. It will be in the worst case like comparing xbox and GC. At this point with the current technology, the limit is in the developers and how much time and money they want to invest on graphics (because they arent cheap and fast to produce) more than a technology limit like in previous eras.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Honestly we don't need a new console for the controller.  But from a business perspective it makes sense.  They can't just make it a Cube add-on because the Cube's image is so tarnished that they need a fresh slate even if in reality the Rev is just a Cube with a remote and the online gaming the Cube should have had.

Do we need the Revolution?  No.  The remote is in response to a "crisis" about gaming that Nintendo made up.  Nintendo thinks they have to reinvent the wheel to innovate.  I think that's stupid but we really don't need the X360 or PS3 either.  Not yet anyway.  The real reason we're even getting any new consoles is because of money and console makers want to release new product.  Each company is using some paper thin reason to go next gen.  Sony and MS are using HD, Nintendo is using their controller.  All three companies are wrong.  I don't think we're set for life with the current consoles but we've reached a point in technology where a console can last longer than five years before a new model is needed.  We will need new consoles eventually but not yet.

Gaming is only stale if the content being made is stale.  Considering that Nintendo has made virtually nothing for the Cube for the past few years but cliche Mario spinoff junk they can kindly shut-up because they've contributed to the problem as much as anyone.  And the Rev won't fix this if they just use it to make new Mario spinoffs.  If Nintendo wants to make gaming interesting again they need to ditch this recent "our franchises are everything" attitude they've had for the last couple of years, not break a perfectly acceptable controller design for no reason.

If the remote is the only real addition to the Rev I'm concerned about how that will improve traditional games that use the "normal" controller.  Without a big hardware boost they're basically just going to be Cube games.  Nintendo is kind of setting up a system where only remote controlled games will benefit from their new hardware (and online games).  That's kind of lame.  It also suggest to me that Nintendo won't bother to even make many traditional games, if any at all.  Did they make ANY 2D games for the N64?

Offline jasonditz

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Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Matt said that because he is a graphic's whore, but I have no reason to think that Rev games will be graphically "inferior" to games like Gears of War in the same scale than for instance N64 graphics compared to GC, which is what everyone thinks its going to end up happening. It will be in the worst case like comparing xbox and GC. At this point with the current technology, the limit is in the developers and how much time and money they want to invest on graphics (because they arent cheap and fast to produce) more than a technology limit like in previous eras.


Geez, RE4 for the Cube wasn't that far off most of the 360 launch titles. I know there's a lot more horsepower in these new systems, but I'm largely unimpressed so far with what they've brought to the table in terms of graphics, it just doesn't seem like a whole generation leap.

Offline Strell

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There's no crisis in the gaming industry?  Nintendo isn't "making it up," Ian, so much as you'd like to believe that.  The content IS stale and a large number of people agree.  And it WILL crash if it goes the way it is going.  This year?  No.  Next year?  No.  But if NIntendo weren't willing to move the entire damn axis off center, there's a good chance it will stagnateby 2008, and be in a crisis shortly thereafter.  To suggest everything is okay is to slap hardcore AND casual gamers right in the face, which are the people you seem to be so worried about lately.

I agree that I think consoles can last longer than 5 years, but outside of that, your post is pretty much devoid of anything worthwhile - just a bunch of rantings taken WAY out of proportion.

There's other things that could be argued against, but I have a feeling that others will take care of that, even though answers to them have been in countless posts.

I've said this before - you need a new hobby, man.
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Offline RiskyChris

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I agree completely with the article after having read it (the title of the post made me uneasy).

When I think of revolution, all I think about is the controller.  Nintendo has put my opinions and focus into the right place.

A new system is required to: complement the controller, deliver a virtual console, allow wifi connections built-in, accept a new media, and allow for storage other than GCN memory cards.

Offline Ian Sane

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"There's no crisis in the gaming industry? Nintendo isn't 'making it up,' Ian, so much as you'd like to believe that. The content IS stale and a large number of people agree."

Nintendo thinks people are bored of gaming as is and thus gaming has to be completely reinvented.  That's bullsh!t.  If people are bored it is entirely because of the rehash games out there not the "format" of gaming.  They think gaming is being too exclusive.  That's crap.  If anything the amount of "safe" titles and dumbed down games has made gaming more inviting to the mainstream.  If anything I consider the mainstream and the non-gamers the problem.  Gaming has been hurt by catering to non-fans.  Yet Nintendo thinks the problem is that we're not catering to the non-fans enough.

Nintendo thinks no one is buying games anymore except hardcore gamers.  That's wrong.  If anyone is getting bored of games it's the hardcore fans who find it harder and harder to weed through the crap.  The casuals are gleefully purchasing more copies of Madden each year.

Offline RiskyChris

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I'm part of Nintendo's Blue Ocean strategy.  I completely agree with what they've said so far.

I don't buy games anymore because I'm bored of the same bullshit being fed to me every single time.  However, I'm not a softy when it comes to gaming (Which is why I buy like 3 games a year... only AAAA titles, and play them like mad).

I openly welcome the change to gaming.


P.S. Ian, Nintendo doesn't say EVERY SINGLE PERSON is bored with gaming.  Do you just read their comments the way you want them to sound, just so you can make ridiculous, extremist statements and conclusions?