Topic: INTERVIEWS: NST Discusses Metroid Prime: Hunters

[Jensen]

They are simply adapting the game to the strengths of the console.  The DS has better controls for a first person game, so they didn't include auto aim.  Because of better controls and Internet WiFi, the game is better suited for multiplayer, so they added several classic FPS modes.  Because the hardware is less powerful, it can't have as detailed of an environment as on the cube, so they adapted it to be more level based.

If they just made mini Metroid Prime, why should I buy it when I can just play a better version on my Gamecube?  Do you think you'd enjoy Metroid Prime on the N64 if it were coming out this month?  I bought a DS so I could play games that would not be possible with any other system, not so I could play mini Gamecube games.

You just don't like that it is called a Metroid game?  As others have said, it fits in more with who Samus is than other Metroid games, even if the gameplay will be different.

[Rize]

Personally, I don't want to see a Metroid Prime style adventure on the DS.  The DS just isn't capable of replicating that experience in my opinion (graphics are too simple).  Hunters is perfect for the DS (a nice new 2D Metroid would be great as well).

[Ian Sane]

"Ian, you're basing your opinion on the Hunters demo which pretty much just features the multiplayer. Of course it doesn't feel like Metroid, just like Metroid Echoes wouldn't have felt like Metroid if all they showed was the multiplayer."

Part of my opinion I'm basing on previews and impressions.  I don't need to play the game to know that a level based structure is very likely going to make the game feel less Metroid like.

I think an ideal Metroid game for the DS would be a 2D Metroid game like the 2D Metroid games on the GBA.  They've established Metroid Prime as the console series and the original series as the portable one.  Metroid Prime Hunters looks like a pretty cool game and it does make good use of the DS hardware.  But it shouldn't necessarily be a Metroid game since it doesn't have a lot of key Metroid elements.  When you take an otherwise unrelated game and throw in a franchise it's called milking and it devalues the franchise over time.  Case in point new Mario games don't make any impact on the gaming industry anymore when years ago every Mario game was like a huge deal.  This is no different than Star Fox Adventures in that it is only loosely based on the original concept.  The only difference is we knew they just shoehorned Star Fox in that case and we can't confirm if they did the same thing here.  If they didn't call this Metroid I wouldn't care.

"As others have said, it fits in more with who Samus is than other Metroid games, even if the gameplay will be different."

Who Samus is?  What the hell does that mean?  Samus exists purely in the Metroid games.  The original Metroid series is 100% accurate to her character because it defined who the hell she was in the first place.  You guys are getting hung up on "bounty hunter" being written in an NES manual.  Samus really is more of a superhero then anything else.  The only reason they called her a bounty hunter in the first place is because it sounds cooler than "spaceman protagonist".  With that logic the next Mario game better revolve around plumbing because it would be fit more with who Mario is.

[Mario]

words words words

I still can't hold the DS properly when playing the demo of this game, my left hand is the only thing holding the entire weight of the DS up because i'm using the stylus with my other hand and the DS just flops around and it's a nightmare to play for more than 5 minutes. That's the only thing stopping me from getting the game, which is a shame because it looks like they're cramming so much awesomeness into it, i'd definately buy a GC / Rev port. I think i'm alone in this though..

[Artimus]

Mario, there is this thing called a knee. And another thing called a table. Resting your DS on either of those allows perfect play

[mantidor]

Thumbstrap FTW! its like a better analog stick for this game or something, I dont know how to describe it, but its really great, takes a little to get used to it, but once you are there, its pretty much like keyboard/mouse.

The only thing I dont like about it is that it seems that the thumbstrap scratches the screen more easily, and the thumbstrap doesnt cover the whole thumb so its also very easy to get those ugly greasy fingerprints on the screen.

[Urkel]

Judging from all the recent previews I've read of this game, it sounds like MPH is something between a regular FPS and Metroid Prime. You still scan stuff in this game. You still search for missile and energy tank upgrades. You still have morphball puzzles. You still get new beams. You still backtrack to open up new areas.

Just that there's more shooting now. And a worthwhile multiplayer mode.

[Bloodworth]

Yeah, I do the knee thing too, Artimus.  I'm hoping that the DS Lite will make the size of the system less of an issue.  I cannot stand the thumbstrap in any situation.  

Oddly enough, despite the fact that I use inverted aiming on every console FPS, inverting the controls on Hunters makes it unplayable for me.  WEIRD.

I think that the single player game will progress somewhat like Fusion, giving you access to multiple areas at once, but shutting off certain areas at times.  The Hunters themselves feel like fighting Dark Samus in Echoes since you're toe to toe with an enemy that's very much your equal.  

[Bill Aurion]

Oddly enough, despite the fact that I use inverted aiming on every console FPS, inverting the controls on Hunters makes it unplayable for me. WEIRD.

Probably because it's a more direct method of input...

[Myxtika1 Azn]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
The Hunters themselves feel like fighting Dark Samus in Echoes since you're toe to toe with an enemy that's very much your equal.

Crap! Are there "regular" bosses in this game? You know, like the MP 1 and 2 bosses.  I don't really want to go through fight after fight and it not be different between each other.  It'll get tired fighting "Dark Samus" multiple times -- heck, I hated that part of Echoes.
 

[KDR_11k]

Oddly enough, despite the fact that I use inverted aiming on every console FPS, inverting the controls on Hunters makes it unplayable for me. WEIRD.

I use inverted on consoles and normal on the PC (don't have the Prime 3 Arena demo), the reason is that the control stick is more like controlling a flight simulator. I don't know which game started it for me but I just treat analog look as controlling a plane or spaceship.

[IceCold]

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Now imagine that Nintendo, behind EAD's back, made a Zelda shortly afterwards that had a jump button and played like a platformer. Would you think that that was a natural extension of the series or just a cheap cash-in for a quick buck? Metroid Prime Hunters is a Zelda platformer.

Hahahaha.. Sorry, but that just made me laugh. The whole paragraph, but especially that

Anyway, I'll give you Hunters, but there's no way in hell Retro will change MP3 into an FPS. You say that it's easier to aim in 2D games. Well, that's EXACTLY what the Rev controller is trying to do; it's trying to make aiming natural and intuitive. And if early impressions are to be believed, it's doing a good job at it. In fact, it may even bring Metroid closer to its 2D roots.. There will still be exploration, still be adventure - don't worry.

What you're saying here is just like your arguments about Zelda taking the focus away from adventure if it used the NRC - unfounded.

[Mr Bloober]

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Crap! Are there "regular" bosses in this game? You know, like the MP 1 and 2 bosses.  I don't really want to go through fight after fight and it not be different between each other.  It'll get tired fighting "Dark Samus" multiple times -- heck, I hated that part of Echoes.

The Nintendo Power article mentions "Gaurdians" of the crystals, so I'm assuming there's going to be monster bosses, as well as the bounty-hunter bosses (If they're really bosses at all?). But then again, it might just be refering to the usual evil flora and flauna.  

[Infernal Monkey]

I hated all of the touch screen aiming options in the demo. Stylus, thumbstrap, whatever, they were all awkward as hell after a few minutes. And resting it on a table while hunching over to see the screen sounds about as fun as sticking toothpicks under my fingernails. Dpad + face buttons for the win.  

[KnowsNothing]

I don't have a problem with using the stylus.  Playing while standing up is sort of a problem, but when sitting down I just rest my arms on my hips like I do when holding a console controller.  It makes supporting the system with one hand pretty easy, no knee required!  

Also:

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Aiming in 2D is way WAY easier than in 3D. It's like Zelda. In A Link to the Past I have to aim with my bow. My target has to be in front of me. But they added targeting to the 3D games because aiming became harder with the extra dimension and they needed to make it simpler so that the game still felt like a Zelda game instead of an arrow shooting game. It was important that the combat in Zelda remained as easy to execute as it did in 2D so that the focus of the game could remain on the adventure elements of the series.

In Zelda you could shoot arrows manually or, when fighting an enemy, you can lock on.  According to the Prime 2 demo with the Rev controller, the lock on was still there, it was just less necessary.  So in Prime 3 you'll be able to shoot manually or, when fighting an enemy, you can lock on.  Same thing

I know we're talking about Hunters here, I'm just saying that Prime 3 is doing the same thing as the other Primes, which, according to Ian, stays true to the Metroid roots.  So he can't complain

So yeah, about Hunters, I agree with the dude who said it's perfect for the DS (don't feel like scolling up!). This game perfectly showcases the DS hardware in its own way: (in my opinion) awesome touch screen aiming, beautiful graphics for the system, and now voice chat through the microphone.  The Metroid name may feel a little tacked on, but it in no way makes the game worse, it makes it much better, so I'm not complaining.  With the Metroid name comes puzzle solving, upgrades, scanning, Samus (!!), and the whole Metroid atmosphere and history that another series wouldn't be able to replicate.  It's still a Metroid game at heart, it just controls a little differently.  So stop complaining!  Super Mario 64 was much more removed from the Mario games than this is from the Metroid games, but we all love it anyway

words words words

[Artimus]

Having the option to actually aim precisely, while maintaining a lockon, adds a level that should've been in Metroid games all along: stealth. You'll be able to sneak and shoot much better than when you'd need to lockown to shoot.

I think with the Rev we won't see a rehash of MP or Metroid, but an expansion and deepening of the world and experience. Very similar to the advancement that is MP.

[KDR_11k]

Having the option to actually aim precisely, while maintaining a lockon, adds a level that should've been in Metroid games all along: stealth.

Stealth should never have been in Metroid. The game is about exploring, not about sneaking around. When you have the ability to remain unseen then you can be sure the developer will make a level where that's required. I will not buy a Metroid game with any stealth sections (provided the reviews bother to mention that, which most didn't for Zero Mission to avoid spoilers).

[31 Flavas]

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
I hated all of the touch screen aiming options in the demo. Stylus, thumbstrap, whatever, they were all awkward as hell after a few minutes. And resting it on a table while hunching over to see the screen sounds about as fun as sticking toothpicks under my fingernails. Dpad + face buttons for the win.

Well, it's your personal opinion that you hated them, I can't very well contest that. That said, it's very natural for myself and a hell of a lot less awkward for me then the "standard fare" of dual analoge or Dpad + face buttons to look around. Whats awkward about both for me is that in a fire fight I have to choose a pitch angle thats a proximatly at the angle of the player, zombie, monster, (whatever), that I need to shoot at. Then since the combat is fast and the opponet is both shooting at me and moving around, all the adjustments to pitch angle need to be done by moving forward, backwards, or side to side. It is highly inaccurate and frustrating for me and the reason I don't like console FPS games (except those that impliment some kind of auto aim). The stylus + touch screen, gives me back the aiming accuracy so that it is basicly WADS + mouse. And now I can pride myself on aiming once again.

[Smash_Brother]

Most everything I was going to say in reply has already been said.

Ian, your attitude on the subject pangs of an old man waving his cane in the air, screaming, "Why, in MY day..." when he doesn't even know what he's talking about because he hasn't experienced it yet.

Be honest, were you upset about Metroid being made into a FPS on the GC? I know there was a whole assload of people who pitched a fit about that and, with your current attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of them.

And I have bad news for you: Metroid Prime IS a FPS. Is the game viewed from first-person? YES. Do you shoot things? YES. Then it's a goddamn first-person shooter. End of story. FPSs have auto aim options as well, some of which barely require you to be aiming at the target and still allows you to hit it, but that doesn't change the fact that they're FPSs. Metroid Prime is a FPS geared toward exploration, but that doesn't change the fact that you fight your enemies by shooting them from a first-person perspective.

The argument of "I DON'T WANNA HAFTA AIM!!!!!" is a horrible one. Seriously, Metroid is not Unreal Tournament, not because they have different aiming schemes but because the two games have completely different focus in terms of gameplay, strategy and technique.

And you had to do plenty of manual aiming in OoT, including the last boss, the horse riding, solving puzzles, etc. No one complained about that, either. On the subject, Mario is a plumber who crawls through a lot of pipes. Samus is a bounty hunter who, to my recollection, has never actually been paid for bringing in a bounty (maybe in one of the 2D Metroids, but never in the Prmes). Even the f*cking StarFox team stuck with its guns and turned down the chance to join the Cornerian army because they're freelance mercenaries who GET PAID (among the list of offenders in the Nintendo universe is Captain Falcon, who supposedly catches all these criminals and yet we've never seen him do anything but race. A guy who never gets out of his car like that should be much fatter, IMHO).

You're overreacting. You haven't even played the game yet and you're already denouncing it, claiming it violates the "Sacred Metroid Testament" or some other such nonsense. At least PLAY the damn game before you blast it all to hell.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Having the option to actually aim precisely, while maintaining a lockon, adds a level that should've been in Metroid games all along: stealth.

Stealth should never have been in Metroid. The game is about exploring, not about sneaking around. When you have the ability to remain unseen then you can be sure the developer will make a level where that's required. I will not buy a Metroid game with any stealth sections (provided the reviews bother to mention that, which most didn't for Zero Mission to avoid spoilers).

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean stealth as in sneaking behind guards. I guess I meant long distance attacking. It makes no sense a bounty hunter wouldn't have the ability to do some form of sniping.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And I have bad news for you: Metroid Prime IS a FPS. Is the game viewed from first-person? YES. Do you shoot things? YES. Then it's a goddamn first-person shooter. End of story. FPSs have auto aim options as well, some of which barely require you to be aiming at the target and still allows you to hit it, but that doesn't change the fact that they're FPSs. Metroid Prime is a FPS geared toward exploration, but that doesn't change the fact that you fight your enemies by shooting them from a first-person perspective.

FPS generally refers to a Half-Life/Perfect Dark/Unreal game. Metroid is so different that calling it just an FPS makes as much sense as calling Mario Sunshine a shooter because he uses a water gun. One element doesn't define a genre unless its the primary element. Metroid's handling of enemies is very different than an FPS's, and the main focus of gameplay is exploration. I really think First Person Adventure is an accurate name for it.

That being said, the difference between MP and say...Half Life, isn't the control scheme. Having precise aiming doesn't change the type of game, and if the focus of the game remains a mix of platforming, morph ball puzzles, and killing enemies, then MP:H will easily be a FPA too, just with an FPS-styled multiplayer (which makes perfect sense in the Metroid universe as well). I think the main difference is simply that in Metroid you just shoot to obliterate. You're not aiming to shoot, but just to kill the enemy. It doesn't matter where you hit them, unlike an FPS which is modeled after aiming a gun.

[Mario]

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Originally posted by: 31 Flavas

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Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
I hated all of the touch screen aiming options in the demo. Stylus, thumbstrap, whatever, they were all awkward as hell after a few minutes. And resting it on a table while hunching over to see the screen sounds about as fun as sticking toothpicks under my fingernails. Dpad + face buttons for the win.

Well, it's your personal opinion that you hated them, I can't very well contest that. That said, it's very natural for myself and a hell of a lot less awkward for me then the "standard fare" of dual analoge or Dpad + face buttons to look around. Whats awkward about both for me is that in a fire fight I have to choose a pitch angle thats a proximatly at the angle of the player, zombie, monster, (whatever), that I need to shoot at. Then since the combat is fast and the opponet is both shooting at me and moving around, all the adjustments to pitch angle need to be done by moving forward, backwards, or side to side. It is highly inaccurate and frustrating for me and the reason I don't like console FPS games (except those that impliment some kind of auto aim). The stylus + touch screen, gives me back the aiming accuracy so that it is basicly WADS + mouse. And now I can pride myself on aiming once again.

That's not the point though, I don't think anyone is arguing that the controls aren't good, I think they're fantastic, some of the best FPS controls ever, it's just to uncomfortable for some people to use. To me it's a massive teaser for the Rev controller which will have nothing holding it back.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
That being said, the difference between MP and say...Half Life, isn't the control scheme. Having precise aiming doesn't change the type of game, and if the focus of the game remains a mix of platforming, morph ball puzzles, and killing enemies, then MP:H will easily be a FPA too, just with an FPS-styled multiplayer (which makes perfect sense in the Metroid universe as well). I think the main difference is simply that in Metroid you just shoot to obliterate. You're not aiming to shoot, but just to kill the enemy. It doesn't matter where you hit them, unlike an FPS which is modeled after aiming a gun.

Call it a FPA if you want, but my point is that MP and MP:H are not the billion miles apart which Ian seems to think they will be.

[Artimus]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
That being said, the difference between MP and say...Half Life, isn't the control scheme. Having precise aiming doesn't change the type of game, and if the focus of the game remains a mix of platforming, morph ball puzzles, and killing enemies, then MP:H will easily be a FPA too, just with an FPS-styled multiplayer (which makes perfect sense in the Metroid universe as well). I think the main difference is simply that in Metroid you just shoot to obliterate. You're not aiming to shoot, but just to kill the enemy. It doesn't matter where you hit them, unlike an FPS which is modeled after aiming a gun.

Call it a FPA if you want, but my point is that MP and MP:H are not the billion miles apart which Ian seems to think they will be.

I know, I'm arguing the same thing, lol.

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, I'm willing to admit that MP focused on exploration and puzzles as much as it did combat, but I don't think the control scheme played into it to the extent that deviating from the formula makes it something different.

I guess arguing about it is ridiculous: we haven't even seen much of the single player game. The single player game will likely be just like MP. The multiplayer will be like MP multiplayer without auto aim and more variety and options. That's the point I should be pushing here.