Topic: Xbox 360 = awesome system

[JonLeung]

Oh, tsk.  You can always use convertors for console controllers on the PC.  But hey, whatever.

I'm still surprised that you don't like King Of Fighters, though.  To me, it's very much like Street Fighter, but a different character set.  More edgier, I guess, without being too overly so.  Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO on the GameCube is an enjoyable game.  Being more of a Capcom game than an SNK game, the characters are more on even ground with the Street Fighter characters...well, they seem balanced enough to me, anyway.  I'm sure I could be wrong.  I got into the KoF series relatively late, but I like the characters more than the seen-too-often-that-they're-almost-boring SF crew.  I'll probably get flack for that statement.  Though I did buy that Street Fighter art book recently and I'll agree with you there that Street Fighter Alpha 3 is an awesome game.

We're going off topic, though...how did we get into this?  Oh, yeah, DoA as one of the top fighting game series on a console with few.  The GameCube could use more fighters, too, it'd've been nice if Virtua Fighter 4 came to it...instead of Virtua Quest or whatever, WTF?

[darknight06]

It sure would've been nice considering that the button layout would've worked entirely for it, would've made a more accurate home port on a graphical standpoint as well.   And it wouldn't have hurt that it is the most balanced fighting game out there, it just takes a hell of a damn lot to get started with because there's so much to it.  I'd be playing VF4 Evo tournaments exclusively if this was on the GC.

DoA4, we broke it in a matter of a couple days.  I guess it would be OK casually, but that's about it.

KOF is an acquired taste, and while I did like the series I can see why some people don't.  KOF98 was one of it's best games.  KOF really didn't get to be any good until 96 when they completely changed the engine to what was used up until KOF2003 (sucks, stupid Duo Lon)  

I don't completely understand Guilty Gear, but I do like the game and I got a feeling with more understanding of how everything works it would be that much better.  Balance seems to be quite good with only a few stinkers in the pack.  If you do plan to get the DS game, be forewarned, the button inputs for moves and overdrives have been simplified.

I do like CvS2 a little bit but all I gotta say is Sagat, Blanka, and to a lesser extent on the GC and X-Box, Cammy.  Bison was also good, as well as Sakura in A-groove.  Despite the lack of roll cancelling, I did like the idea of an upgraded P-Groove on the GC and X-Box version where you can do SF3 super cancelling.  That groove could've used that to begin with.

"What do you use, a Mac? Guilty Gear XX #reload (like so many Xbox games) is on the PC. I'm sure its system requirements aren't very high."

To be on the safe side, if you get it make sure you have a good video card.   The game did use current gen technology for a lot of it's effects and I can already see my computer slowing down from some of it if the DC couldn't handle it all.

[KDR_11k]

Spak-Spang: The keyboard is pretty much THE best controller for arcade-style games (except for maybe an arcade stick but keyboards are cheaper). You "hold" it like an arcade cabinet except the stick has been replaced with buttons. Cho Ren Sha with a gamepad is pretty much impossible.

If you do plan to get the DS game, be forewarned, the button inputs for moves and overdrives have been simplified.

That's good, moves should be at your disposal when you want to use them, you shouldn't lose a match because you didn't properly input the fifteenth direction in a move. That's why I like Melty Blood so much, moves aren't more complicated than quarter circles or Zs (half circle for the 300% super).

[Spak-Spang]

KDR:  I guess I am just going to be in the minority and that is fine.  I have never been able to use the keyboard successfully for any game.  To me first person shooters actually control better on a console.  I have everything in the palm of my hands and I only have to worry about 6-8 buttons instead of an entire keyboard.

[couchmonkey]

I'm in the same boat as you Spak-Spang. With practice, the mouse became better for aiming in FPS' for me, but I still hate the way running and jumping controls on a keyboard.  Another reason to look forward to the Revolution!

Oh, this is an Xbox 360 thread?  Hehe.  If I was rich I'd buy one.

[Smash_Brother]

I still remember why I taught myself mouse aiming on the PC and I'm immensely thankful I learned how to do it.

I love the MPH demo on the DS because aiming with the stylus is just like mouse aiming.

[JonLeung]

For you keyboard-haters:

JoyToKey (software that lets you map keyboard keys to gamepad buttons) + convertors for console controllers = ability to use console controllers on PC games.

Now you're probably going to tell me that you don't like playing on a small screen.  >_<

[Spak-Spang]

Jon:  Cool I didn't know that was out there.  Hmmm...Perhaps I could pick up the PC version of the Xbox 360 controller...then I wouldn't have an excuse.  

[JonLeung]

I use a convertor with one of my N64 controllers.

The six face buttons are really good for playing arcade-style fighting games, and the controller itself seems more durable than any proper PC controller I've ever used.  The many buttons, including the Z-trigger, make it pretty versatile.

Useful as that setup is, I still try to learn real default controls as often as I can, though.

[KDR_11k]

Now you're probably going to tell me that you don't like playing on a small screen. >_<

You make that sound like your PC screen is smaller than your TV.

Most PC games that would work with joystick control allow you to use a joystick without additional programs. For games like UT2004 you'll have to modify the ini to make it match your axises and stuff but usually it's either a menu option or just "plug in the gamepad and play" (as with most japanese indie games).

[Amodaus1]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k


Your list has no Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen (Naruto: Clash of the Ninja in the US but the japanese releases go up to version 4 by now, no reason to pick up any of the older ones) so I suppose you haven't played that. On par with or even above SSBM.

I know how much story is in DoA (though I hate how you need external references to understand any of it if you don't own the entire series) but in a fighting game I don't look for the story. The pick up and play appeal seems rather limited to me because the combos are triggered by illogical inputs (pet peeve of mine) so you have to learn which input does what instead of being able to derive it from the sequence you inputted. Too much combo learning means little pick-up-and-play value to me. IMO extremely high PUNP is important for all multiplayer console games since I've yet to play a console game with my friends they have played before I showed it to them and if they can't get going within five minutes they tend to go and play Counterstrike instead while declaring that the game sucks.

Oh and Melty Blood is a game I recommend for high PUNP.

I played naruto GNT 3, although i was expecting something of the likes of DBZ: Boutaki (spelling?) i was surprised that it had more depth, i know people at willvolution are crazy for it, but honestly its very broken, glitchy, and some of the string/combos are vastly overpowered, mainly haku, and i don't enjoy zazuba's ability to cancel into any string by connecting a jumping A, that and naruto doing like 80% or over (depending on the character) with 1 combo into regansan (spelling) is just out of hand

But i completely agree with DoA, garbage, the counter system is terrible, INVINCIBILITY ON THE GET UP IN A 3D FIGHTER! madness, if soul calibur adopted that poeple would roit, and although some argue that the enviromental dmg is more fair then a ring out (because obviously the match isn't instantly ended) i find it to be equal just on the count that in DoA 3 anytime you got smacked into ANYTHING 50% out the window and in some situations you could be comboed from it, why bother, just leave it at Ring out, oh yeah i forgot, DoA is so pretty and has digital breasts,  10!!! MASTERPIECE, GREATEST GAME EVER!....

Quote
Originally posted by: capamerica


This is pretty much the order of how I like the Fighting games out there:
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-99 Anything I missed
#100 Street Fighter (and other 2D Capcom Fighting Games)

What you should have written

1- Street Fighter 3: third strike  & Super smash brothers melee(The 2 arguablly greatest, most diffucult at top tier play games to master, although if
                                                                                                   i had to give it to one, it'd be SF3 cause of the parry, here's hoping SB revolution will  
                                                                                                   have a parrying type mechanic)

2- Garou: Mark of the wolves
3- the alpha's and SF II
4- Smash brothers                      (would've been higher if L-canceling wasn't so broken (it was a glitch though)
5- Virtua fighter 2                      
6- Soul calibur 2 / 3                    (i can't choose which is better, Ivy was some sort of monster in 2, they toned every one down in 3 but the glitches...)
7- Last Blade 2                           (so unblanaced but i like it)
8- 1000000- everything else       (Cap vs snk, VF 4, Tekken a couple of others are at the higher end)
1000001- Mortal kombat          PEOPLE this is not a fighting game, and it NEVER will be, ever, no arguements please
1000002  DoA                           I think it's worse then mk, because i find 3d isn't as polished as 2d, that and mk was "WOW, BLOOD SO
                                                 COOL", which is better then "THE GFX THE GFX, LOOK NIPPLE, 10!!! X-BOX = GODMODE"                                

                                                     

[KDR_11k]

But i completely agree with DoA, garbage, the counter system is terrible, INVINCIBILITY ON THE GET UP IN A 3D FIGHTER!

SSBM makes you invincible while standing up (and a short while after that). Personally I see no reason to make the player vulnerable while standing up, just puts the player who fell at too big of a disadvantage.  Some games (like OMF or EFZ) even implement hard limits on juggling. Some things just have to be toned down, especially when they allow too much cheese.

i find it to be equal just on the count that in DoA 3 anytime you got smacked into ANYTHING 50% out the window and in some situations you could be comboed from it, why bother, just leave it at Ring out

Even if it's highly damaging it allows a comeback. Comboing from env damage isn't automatic. Plus there are games where an unfortunate input could send you ring-out, that's plain annoying.

[capamerica]

King of Fighters also makes you invincible while standing up, Infact I really can't think of any fighting games that don't make you invincible while getting up. I mean really where is the fun in getting the person on the ground and just continueing to beat the crap out of them. Its not fun. It one of my pet-peves with Soul Calibur.

I love the fact in DoA that you can kick people out windows and down staris, It really adds to the game. I do admit that I find that it takes off to much life when these things happen, But most of the time its pretty hard to do this.

It really sounds like the only reason you hate this game is cause you keep getting your ass handed to you in it.

I absolutly hate all Street Fighter games. They are in my opinion the worst fighting games on the market. And all the Capcom Street Fighter clones also piss the hell out of me. I can deal with the VS. games cause their not as bad but they still suck a lot.

Oh and KDR to answer your question a while ago, I have played a bit of Naruto, but not enought to pass jugment on it and rank it. It was fun what little I played of it.

oh and I'm changeing my list a bit.
#1 Super Smash Bros
#2 Dead or Alive
#3 Soul Calibur
#4 King of Fighters (and other SNK Fighting Games)
#5 Tekken
#6 Guilty Gear
#7 Virtua Fighter
#8 Power Stone
#9 Mortal Kombat
#10 Project Justice
#11 Killer Instinct
#12 Bloody Roar (This one use to be much higher up on my list, then I played Bloody Roar 4)
#13-98 Anything I missed
#99 Dragon Ball Z Fighting games
#100 2D Capcom Fighting Games (Not including Street Fighter)
#? Street Fighter

[Spak-Spang]

I don't mind if someone hates a game I like.  Capcom fighters just may not be in your taste...but if you rank any Mortal Kombat game (specially the 2D games) as better than any of the Street Fighter fighter games, then your opinion on that single issue becomes null and void.  

Can we at least agree that is Street Fighter is 101, then Mortal Kombat is 102?  That series is horrible.

[JonLeung]

Funny, I like Mortal Kombat AND Street Fighter.

For different reasons, though.

[BranDonk Kong]

I think you could easily rank MK2 over all the Street Fighters UP UNTIL Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, even though personally I'd rank MK2 over any SF game, but I don't see anyone agreeing with me there so I won't try convincing anyone how great it was.

[JonLeung]

I also loved Mortal Kombat II!  3 and Ultimate 3 were sucky, but Trilogy was awesome, since I like those dream matches with everyone so far (like King Of Fighters '98).

The next Mortal Kombat game is supposed to have every Kombatant ever.  That, to me, is exciting.  I wonder if they'll have the N64 Trilogy exclusive Khameleon, both human and cyborg Smoke, both human and reptile Reptile, zombie/ghost/human Liu Kangs, and the one-shot characters or characters from the sucky spin-offs?

And back to Street Fighter...there really should be one with all the Street Fighter characters.  Street Fighter Alpha 3 had an awesome selection, but it didn't have some original Street Fighter characters or the new ones from III.  Heck, how about something like Capcom Fighting All-Stars, or whatever that game was called, but with a better selection, like at least all of the Capcom guys from Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, as well as every Street Fighter and Darkstalker?  And all-new Capcom characters, too?  Now that'd be a crazy game.

[Spak-Spang]

Your kidding right?

Mortal Kombat 1, 2 and 3 were horrible.

All characters had the same basic moves.  Upper Cut, same jumping air kick, same sweep, almost all the basic moves were exactly the same or shared with 3 different characters.

The only reason you changed characters was to get the different special moves, and several of the special moves just felt exactly the same.  Perhaps this is because the other basic moves made combos boring.

Say what you will, about Street Fighter, but at least the characters moves felt different.  Yeah everyone had a Dragon punch type attack and fireball.  But the basic moves were drastically different and made you actually KNOW the different characters you were fighting against to beat experienced players.

Mortal Kombat all you really needed to know was your character and their combos.

Finally, Block Buttons are horrible ideas for 2D games.  

[capamerica]

Only reason Mortal Kombat ranks as high as it is is because I have very fond memories of it when I uses to play it in the Arcades. I loved Mortal Kombat 1-3, Thou after that the series went down the crapper, Mortal Kombat failed as a 3D fighting game. There Really is a HUGE gap between #8 and #9.

[JonLeung]

Like I said, I like them for different reasons.

Mortal Kombat has the Fatalities and over-the-top gore and violence, sure.  It's one of the only game series where I really like that, but it probably stems from nostalgia of all those days trying to perform them all.

But Mortal Kombat also has more interesting characters, stories, worlds, and atmosphere.  I like Street Fighter, sure, but it's all about international fighters looking for good fights and/or defeating M. Bison.  (There's a bit more to some of them, but few are truly complex stories.)  I liked how Alpha 2 had different final bosses, sure, but most SF games aren't like that.  The MK stories are more complex than you would expect...I remember a bunch of gory games that came out that were gory just for the sake of it and their stories sucked, if they existed at all.

When Mortal Kombat isn't doing the cookie-cutter palette-swap ninja template thing, the characters are more interesting.  Different species in some cases.  And from all over.  Sure, SF has different countries, but Mortal Kombat has different worlds.  Earthrealm and Outworld, mostly, but also Edenia, the Netherrealm, and MK: Deception also introduced Chaosrealm and Orderrealm.  There's more of a fantasy vibe.  Street Fighter doesn't have that.

As a button-masher and a pro of none of these games, a jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none, you could say, maybe I'm not qualified to point out the mechanics of games in particular, but I will say that I do like the atmosphere in Mortal Kombat.

[couchmonkey]

I think Street Fighter might be the better fighting game, but I tend to agree with JonLeung: I'm not a super-duper fighter expert, so things like story matter a little more to me, and that's one area where Mortal Kombat is generally ahead of Street Fighter...and a lot of other fighting games, for that matter.  I've heard good things about Soul Calibur, but no fighting game I've played has a storyline on par with MK.

Incidentally, I've played a metric ton of Super Street Fighter II, and it seemed like I could never pull off any decent combos.  

Edit: Why not be a follower?  My rankings (based on the games I've actually played):

1. Super Smash Bros. Melee
2. Super Street Fighter II
3. Capcom vs. SNK EO
4. Street Fighter Alpha 2
5. King of Fighters: Neo Blood
6. Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance
7. Other SF IIs (everyone loves Turbo, I just loved the extra characters added in Super).
8. Super Smash Bros.
9. Killer Instinct Series
10. DOA 3

There are a bunch of others that were probably worse than DOA (War Gods and BIO Freaks come to mind), in fact I rather like DOA, but I haven't played any other fighters enough to honestly rank them here.

[Spak-Spang]

Jon:  I do agree with the Atmosphere thing.  I remember looking at the backgrounds and overall feel of Mortal Kombat and I thought it was fresh.  And, Mortal Kombat did come up with a few very innovative special moves...however, the feeling wore off fast to me.

Mortal Kombat's story and characters became very standard and boring as the series progressed, it became less fresh and the story became more ridiculous.  Where Street Fighter is different.  I began to really like the characters as the animes and mangas came out linking the stories more and the characters.  I liked how as the series developed Ryu became a superstar (though he didn't want it) and began to have fans follow him (Sakura)  It made if feel realistic.  Ken even though he was never the master that Ryu was began training apprentices before Ryu, which really shows his inferiority complex with Ryu.

[couchmonkey]

The problem with Street Fighter's story is that unless you follow the comics etc, it's going nowhere.  Every game that I've played has the same basic things happening to the same old characters.  Chun Li is always avenging her father, Ken is always proving he hasn't lost his touch, and Ryu is always training to be the best.  I know there's some progression in there, for example Cammy goes from being brainwashed to fighting Bison, but too many semi-sequels have kept the plot from progressing in the games themselves.

[JonLeung]

Every series has its ups and downs.  I'll admit that character design was literally cookie-cutter by MK3, and the ending stories really sucked in MK4.  Not to mention that MK4 sucked as a whole.  But have you played the recent Mortal Kombat games?  They have a different feel, yet still within the MK vibe.

And regarding the SF stories...I feel that some characters are too unused.  Sure, every fighting game has the guy that's just in there, but too many of SF's classic characters seem to sit around.  Half of the SF II crew, even. Dhalsim's never interacting with anyone in his endings.  Zangief is also a loner (other than R. Mika in Alpha 3).  There's not much to Blanka despite the more radical story about him being raised in the jungle, and E. Honda is plain boring.  They can be formidable in fights, but often I feel they're just there for the ethnic diversity and not much else.

Don't get me wrong, I love Street Fighter, but story is not its strong suit.  I also love The King Of Fighters, even though I don't understand most of what's going on there.  I've been downloading The King Of Fighters: Another Day, which is a series of really short anime episodes that show what the characters do in one particular day where there's a fire in town.  Each episode features a handful of characters, but it's all the same day.  Neat.  Confusing, but interesting.

[Spak-Spang]

Jon:  That is true about all fighting games.  That characters are completely underused, and really the stories are all very basic.  Soul Caliber is often talked about having a great story, but really its very cookie-cutter itself.  

I haven't played the most recent Mortal Kombat, and I actually want to.  I have heard that the series has really turned around for the better.  Which I hope is true, because it is a classic game franchise and I want to see it continue to succeed and become better.

About Street Fighter's story.  You do realize that there are only like 3 games and therefore 3 stories.  Alpha, Street Fighter 2, and Street Fighter 3.  And since Alpha is a prequel to 2 that the stories are going to be fimilar.  

Street Fighter 3 seems to have a very different story.  

But I guess where Mortal Kombat is about an ongoing story.  Street Fighter is actually more about motives.  Why is Ryu trying to become the best.  Why does Ken believe he is inferior and what does he really have to prove?  Can Cammy overcome her brainwashing?  How will Chun Li's and Guile's motives partner up?  

There are tons of under used characters, but they will eventually be dealt with.

I hope a new 2D Street Fighter 4 really pushes the story more, and also brings back all the characters we miss with Street Fighter 3.