Topic: Your First REV downloads

[Spak-Spang]

Nintendo has obviously tinkered with a level editor for Super Mario Brothers 3 (remember the GBA version with the E-Reader support)  So this isn't entirely impossible.  All they would have to do is attach a simple code that allows it to access custom levels, and then sell a level editor download that could work with several games.

Imagine a Mario and Zelda level editor for Super Mario 1-4/Zelda 1 and 3.

The download could be little more expensive since it would require definate work to develop.  Perhaps $25-30.

And if you cry and say that is too much.  Imagine the ability to play infinite levels from your friends and such downloadable around the world.

[Renny]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I am willing to pay up to $5.00 for a download game.  I understand the infrastructure of the online service must be payed for.  And I understand that these are still intellectual properties that have value whether you download it or buy the cartridge.

Everybody complaining about price needs to remember that...and also needs to remember the CONVIENCE of having a system that plays all your games...specially old games that are rare hard to find, or that the save batteries have died on.

As I said, I am probably going to have a huge library of 50-100 choice games from all systems.  I will have them saved on 2 backup SD cards and on the Revolution memory (until that fills up too much with other game saves).

I sold all my classic games with each new system so that I had money to afford the systems, and finally Nintendo is saying we understand you guys and we are bringing your favorites back.

I also hope for additions to games.  I hope Mario 64 is turned into the Mario 64 DS with online verse mode to play.

I hope that multiplayer games are allowed to be played online.

I will say, don't get your hopes up for your favorite licensed games like Ninja Turtles.  They may have a hard time releasing those games on the Revolution.

However, I am sure Nintendo has already got the big companies like Konami, Square, Capcom, Hudson Soft, and more ready to have game download service available.  It woudn't surprise me if Nintendo did the work for them, and translated the ROMS into whatever Revolution secure format they will use to avoid hackers and piracy.

This is OT, but before you buy 3 SD cards, consider that Nintendo will almost certainly enable copy protection on its emulated game files (as you alluded to in the last paragraph). Content Protection for Recordable Media at WikiPedia. Backups will probably be unnecessary though, as Nintendo could just maintain a list of what games you've purchased, and allow you to redownload them if you had to replace your card.

As far as price is concerned, the IP has value, but 20-year-old games have little unless it offers some collectibility (which the download versions won't beyond personal nostalgia), or at least some new packaging or features. I can't see many people sharing your fervor to spend $5 for an ancient NES game, despite how good it was then and how entertaining it might be now. They will have to offer some desireable games for 99¢ to make any impression on the public, and they might further still have to include the features you suggested at that price. But if the iTunes store is any indication, Nintendo will have a tough time delivering the games at a fair price even if they want to. Cash-strapped publishers will take heat from investors if they look like they're underpricing what is virtually free profit.

[Spak-Spang]

I dunno.

Everybody brings up Itunes and mentions music.  It should be $0.99 or $1.99 a song, but not more.

I think Itunes and music is a poor comparison to downloading games, however lets do go that route and compare just for a second.

People are downloading music that has very little value except that person is attached to the song and enjoys listening to that song.  They in essence paying for the ability to listen to a 3 minute song over and over...or until they get tired or bored with the song.  Many of these songs on Itunes are old music that you can probably buy used at music stores for cheaper than that $0.99 price per song for an album.

Now, lets talk about games.  Old games are still being played and remade on the net everyday.  Most of these games for full versions you must pay for the game.  Usually much more than $5.00.  

Old NES, SNES, and Nintendo 64 games.  Will probably bring old and new players at LEAST an hour or more play time for the first run through.  With the ability to play the games over again, and allow friends to play such games over again and with you.  (Just like I-tunes.)  However, where I-tunes makes you pay 0.99 for three to 4 minutes.  You are Demanding Nintendo charge the same amount for an infinitely better value.  30 minutes of music would easily cost you over $10.00.  

What more you are not just buying music with a game.  You are getting an experience complete with media, sound, interaction, competition.  There is alot of work involved.  Yes, these IPs have already been payed for and have already made money for the company, but so has the OLD MUSIC.  

And really $5.00 is not much to ask to replay Mario Brothers again as many times as you want.  Go to an arcade and $5.00 will buy you 5 turns on your favorite racer or shooter.  Go to the used games stores and try to buy Chrono Trigger or Super Mario RPG for $5.00.  These games are more expensive than that.  

I still consider it a value, before you even begin to tack on the idea that Nintendo is giving you free Wifi Revolution and DS connection instead of making you pay like Microsoft.  It is still a value before you realize that these downloads are the only thing keeping you from having to pay for online and watching your favorite game company continue to loss money with an expensive online plan.

So, whatif the games are MORE than $5.00.  What if they are $10.00?  When does it become too expensive?  Simple when people aren't willing to pay for the downloads...when people feel they are unjustly being ripped off.

Perhaps $10.00 for a NES game is too much.  However, I will contend most buyers will still see Top SNES games and Rare SNES games a bargain at $10.00.  Nintendo 64 games as well are a bargain at $10.00...and the reason is that the original IP no matter how old it is, and now matter how dated you think it is.  Still has value to the fans that desire to play those games.  

I think being able to buy 1 average next generation game for $60.00 isn't nearly the same value of getting 6-12 AAA classic titles from my favorite systems in the past.  

[King of Twitch]

Legend of Zelda: Wand of Gamelon, and LoZ: Feces of Evil

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Nintendo has obviously tinkered with a level editor for Super Mario Brothers 3 (remember the GBA version with the E-Reader support)  So this isn't entirely impossible.  All they would have to do is attach a simple code that allows it to access custom levels, and then sell a level editor download that could work with several games.

Imagine a Mario and Zelda level editor for Super Mario 1-4/Zelda 1 and 3.

The download could be little more expensive since it would require definate work to develop.  Perhaps $25-30.

And if you cry and say that is too much.  Imagine the ability to play infinite levels from your friends and such downloadable around the world.

Don't forget the F-Zero X track editor!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Renny]

$10 for an emulated game is an outright ripoff. There isn't enough convenience in the world to justify that markup for me. Maybe for an N64 game with some useful additions--eg, Mario 64 DS. But let's put my personal beliefs aside and look at it more broadly. People cite '99¢' as an ideal price point because it has a significant psychological effect on the buyer. Remember the hubbub Nintendo made about the GameCube going to $99? "The nines" they called it in one of their numerous press releases. And notice that it's staying, and most likely will stay there till the Revolution hits shelves. This is a pricepoint where people think they're getting something of value at a good price. Maybe someone more familiar with marketing can explain exactly why that is. I attribute it to ignorance.

$5 at the arcade is an interesting comparison, seeing as hardly anyone in the west goes to arcades anymore. And at what point does it become too expensive? Before people feel like they're being ripped off. The games need to be priced such that people will download games on impulse. A game has to offer the immediate impression of being 'cheap' to reach the volume I anticipate Nintendo will aim for. You can't expect a person to hem and haw before coming to the conclusion that, "no, I don't quite feel like I'm being ripped off. I think I will download this game after I pay my CC bill."

And I don't give a damn about iTunes either. 99¢ is too much for one lossy, DRMed version of a song for me. I do just what you suggested, buy a used CD for cheap and rip my own copy.

And this is somewhat off-topic also, but I'd like to see a large market for downloadable indie games. Pricing classics into this range could hurt those sales. That is if Nintendo follows through with its promises of cheap development and online distribution. I don't think they ever explicitly promised delivering games without publishers, did they?

[Kairon]

The thing that hurts indie titles is that they have to complete with Miyamoto masterpieces.

[LinkZero]

Sin and Punishment
Starfox 64
Perfect Dark(do N still have the rights ?)

[IceCold]

First download - Super Mario Bros... just can't beat it.

Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger (if possible), Uniracers, World Cup Soccer NES, Zelda II, and quite a bit more.

I still have Super Mario Bros and Super Metroid, but I just can't pass up on downloading those - it would be a crime. I don't know if I'll download anything else that I already have, but once I know the pricing, I'll condier it..

[KDR_11k]

I'll download whatever the list contains that looks interesting and affordable. Since I never had a NES or N64 and didn't have enough money to buy many games for my SNES back then there's a LOOOONG list of games on those systems that would be new to me.

[couchmonkey]

I just want to thank Spak-Spang for saying what I've been trying to say for a long time now in his last post.

On a topic someone brought up earlier, I'd also like to see all versions of a game included in one download.  Give me Super Mario Bros. 2 / Super Mario Bros. 2 All-Stars / Super Mario Bros. 2 Advance all in one download.  I think that would be really nice.  Even if they sold them separately or as a bundle for a better price I'd be pretty satisfied.

[Don'tHate742]

You realize that if they release it at $0.99 that they could generate a hell of alot more money then say $5 per game.

People would go on a frenzy buying whatever they want without second guessing themselves.

What Nintendo has to consider is whether they want that to happen. If people buy and play those games, who's going to buy the new ones?

[UncleBob]

Would they *really* make more money at 99 cents than they would at $5?  I mean, if that's the case, why charge 99 cents!  Let's charge 50 cents!  People's fingers would start to bleed from downloading games so fast!

[Renny]

Yes, they would. Not only would 'core' players be downloading their old favorites, but so would those with a casual interest in old games. It should be an "and" service.

[Ian Sane]

"The thing that hurts indie titles is that they have to complete with Miyamoto masterpieces."

Supposedly third party games already have to deal with that.  I think the whole arguement is flawed anyway since NES and SNES third party games had to compete with Nintendo's own games and didn't have any problem.  Low third party Cube sales are usually because the game either sucks, is a weak port that has a better version on another console, or the Cube userbase is just too small to give third party games comparable sales as the competition.

Anyway I agree that 99 cent games allows for more impulse buys.  I think at $5 most people would only buy games they don't have a copy of.  99 cents however is I think the sweet spot where people will impulsively replace their whole NES collection just for the novelty of having it all available from one spot.  Why not go 50 cents?  Because there's no point.  99 cents is the sweet spot.  Both prices heavily encourage impulse buys so why not go with the one that brings in more revenue?

[couchmonkey]

In the end, Nintendo pays professional market researchers to make sure that they charge just the right amount to get maximum profit.  Frankly, I think they'll do a better job than any of us at figuring out a good price point.  Of course I'd prefer super-cheap games, but I'm more and more convinced that Nintendo will charge a price that rakes in the dollars, and I think that price is more 99 cents.

[Don'tHate742]

Does Nintendo want that to happen though? I mean, Spak-Spang said it himself. He might not even by a launch game if he could just download his old favorites.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather buy 50 old games than a brand new one any day of the week. This might force companies to produce QUALITY in the market place. If I don't see a game that's instantly worth buying, then I'll consider buying Sin and Punishment more....

[jakeOSX]

contra. must beat contra, again.

i'd wager the $2.99 range. and some tiered pricing, like $1.99 for NES, $2.99 for SNES, $5.99 for 64 and $10 for cube... (out of print cube only, in print i assume would go for only slightly less than market price)

[Don'tHate742]

that's if theres enough memory to store a cube game in the first place, plus....how long would that take?

EDIT: info isnt how you spell enough

[Bill Aurion]

Cube games, unlike GameBoy games, have absolutely no chance of ever happening...Plus, you only have 512 MB of space...

[JonLeung]

It would be nice to download Game Boy and Game Boy Color games.  Unfortunately I never got a Game Boy until Pokémon (I got a Super Game Boy just to play Link's Awakening)...so I'm a huge Nintendo fan but have to hang my head in shame at missing most games of the original handheld.  To be able to download GB/GBC games to the DS through the Revolution would complete the DS's backwards-compatibility and have even more of the Nintendo library making moolah.

And I still say they should get some kind of deal with Sega to get their games on there if Sega never plans to return to hardware.  Monopoly on all old games = WIN.  Anyone over the age of 20, even if they were in the Sega camp, would have to buy a Revolution now if they need any sense of nostalgia.  At least get the Genesis library...

And then what about foreign games?  Hmmm?  At least European ones that wouldn't require translation.

But it's probably a sure thing that you'll be able to play something like the original NES Super Mario Bros. (which everyone has played umpteen times already) and extremely unlikely to download an obscure, foreign language Neo-Geo Pocket Color game (made by some nearly-unknown, now-bankrupt developer) to the DS, even if they technically could.

[Don'tHate742]

Well fortunately for you Jonleung, theyre already stated that you could download different games from different servers. Meaning if each sector (NA, Europe, Japan, and Aussie) has a corresponding server with a list of games, we can download from any server we like. So if europeans want the NA version of Super Mario RPG then it's theres. If Bill wants whatever crazy japanese game he's been seeking (tannagima or something), it's his.

All those games that weren't ported and/or different are now finally accessible.  

[Bill Aurion]

Quote
Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
If Bill wants whatever crazy japanese game he's been seeking (tannagima or something), it's his.

Terranigma...TERRANIGMA! >=O  And it was released everywhere except the U.S., including Europe and Australia, so if Square-Enix will be kind enough to even put the game on the list I'd much rather go for the English version...

[Spak-Spang]

Just so you understand.

I don't think Nintendo will release the games for $5.00.  But if they do, I wouldn't think it was a rip off.  I think I explained why.  I think several people that think its a rip off think so because of emulators and ROMS that have been available on the net illegally for free.  

I am sure you are thinking why buy something that is several years old that I can get for free.  Well, I don't agree with emulations and I try to avoid illegal software whenever I can.

$5.00 to play a great game is not too much.  Also about the arcade comparrision...arcades are dying because the home market has equalled or surprassed what the aracades can do.  It used to be arcades held deeper games with better graphics.  Now, they only hold speciality games that cost more money to play.

Personally I believe the games will be around $1.99-$2.99.  And my bet is on the higher $2.99 cost.

It has that 99 cent edge and is easily affordable for everyone.

 

[BigJim]

If Nintendo goes with price-per-download rather than a subscription, I think they would (appropriately) take the same route Apple does with the iTunes music store. They don't make much money there. The revenue covers their costs to operate it and the rest goes to the companies/artists.

The iTMS is meant to sell iPods, rather than the other way around. It might be tempting to make it a direct profit driver, but I think they'd be smart enough to understand the value in selling older games very inexpensively. $2 could be cheap and convenient enough to deter some piracy, not unlike how people are willing to pay 99 cents for a song or $2 for last night's episode of Lost. And it helps make the Revolution look like a hot item, where their real profits will lie. So I'd say let the games sell the Revolution. Don't get greedy on the old library.

But I wonder if they'll actually sell games outright. I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a subscription model where games expired after so long.