Author Topic: Rare working on 2 DS games  (Read 27919 times)

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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2005, 10:11:24 AM »
Besides talent, there's project management.  Without solid leadership, not much of anything gets done in time, and at the less-than-desirable levels of quality.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2005, 10:23:09 AM »
It would be very cool if Nintendo, Rare, and EA somehow worked together to release Goldeneye on the portable.  

I wouldn't mind Perfect Dark, but really Goldeneye is the game that would excite me the most.


Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2005, 10:26:55 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Don't ignore Mickey's Speedway.  Do not ignore Mickey's Speedway.

And the fact that Conker was in dev. longer than PD was, originally planned to come out early in the N64's life; that's a lot of time for one dev. team to "waste".  I like Conker, it had a great variety of scenarios, but for me it's difficult to revisit.  I appreciate what it offered for its time.  But the controls, ugh.

JFG i liked until I defeated Mizar the first time... then it became a search quest in a game world that wasn't easy to navigate.  Ugh.

DK64, SFA, we know how they turned out.

I'm not a DKC nor KI fan.

Only PD and DKR stand the test of time for me.


Conker probably woudl have been a better game (to me at least) if they hadn't made it a uber mature themed game.  I mean look at the GBC Conker game, where cute game little children could play, and then look at N64 Conker game.  It's like Mario on GBA being rated E for everyone and the new REV version rated AO.  It just didn't make sense.

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Offline JonLeung

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2005, 12:17:08 PM »
I guess I'm in the minority here...

I liked Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures.  I wouldn't say I UBER-LOVED them, and the Banjo-Kazooie games were better, but I still really enjoyed these two at the time and I don't see why I should dislike them.

And I personally think Conker's Bad Fur Day is overrated.  VERY overrated.  Compared to Rareware's other games, this was a little short, too linear, and not anywhere near as much of a collect-a-thon.  Yes, I like to collect things.  (And yes, I know the Freudian implication of obsessing over collecting.)  Since Conker was one of the last games they made in the N64 days, if not THE last, I had expectations after all their other great N64 platform/adventure games.  I didn't mind the obscenities and etc., but to me it looks like they were using the shock value to hide the fact that the game didn't actually have as much substance, even after all those delays.  (To be fair, though, I don't know much about the Xbox re-release, if they added anything I would care about or whatever, but the N64 game has more praise than it deserves.)

I don't think it's unfair to say that Rareware isn't as good as it was considering I've never heard of any "Grabbed By The Ghoulies" fans.  

Offline wandering

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2005, 10:00:37 PM »
Quote

Yes, I like to collect things. (And yes, I know the Freudian implication of obsessing over collecting.)

Most videogame fans seem to. The thing is, though, wheras Nintendo recognises this and always puts lots of things to collect in their videogames, Rare seems to think it's a good idea to REQUIRE you to collect lots of stuff (yeah, you were required to collect things in Mario 64 and OOT, but the things you collected were generally markers that you aquired for solving specific tasks. Specific task that didn't involve running around and picking up hundreds of small objects. Unless you wanted to run around and pick up hundreds of small objects. In which case you could.)

With that said, I did/do really enjoy Donkey Kong 64 and find it to be fairly underrated.

Star Fox, on the other hand, I stopped playing soon after aquiring Trixie. Who thought it was a good idea to force you to constantly chase objects that RUN AWAY FROM YOU?  
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2005, 10:46:23 PM »
The stars/shines in Mario are just exit portals and I think Nintendo only used them to 1. cut down on the number of levels needed (in SMW each level was unique and you only needed to reach one exit in most) and 2. allow you to progress by completing a certain number of goals instead of forcing you to complete each level along a given path (couldn't get past Vanilla Dome 1? Tough luck.). Personally I'd prefer the pasthes and one-goal-per-level of SMB3 and SMW but I guess many people liked Mario 64. I'm glad they don't require you to collect all stars/shines, I suppose Rare didn't let you pass if you only collected 2/3rds of the bafmodads out there?

Offline MrMojoRising

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2005, 10:56:50 PM »
I'll agree for the most part with the "slump" theory...but I think it's moreso that there was a lot of moving and shaking in the company (people leaving) and some of the newer staff members had to take over for the most part.  It seems by the supposed quality of their 360 games that Rare still has it's share of talent, but maybe they're still a little fresh-faced.

Offline wandering

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2005, 11:04:18 PM »
"I suppose Rare didn't let you pass if you only collected 2/3rds of the bafmodads out there?"

Right. In Donkey Kong, you had to collect a much larger amount of golden bananas (the equivalant of stars in mario) in order for new areas to open up....but before you could use the golden bananas, you had to give a key to a giant dinosaur to open up an area that had a door which required you to use your golden bananas...and to get a key you needed to defeat a level boss....and in order to get to a level boss you needed to collect hundreds of bananas in that level....and there were 5 different colors of banana in each level, one type for each character....and characters could not collect bananas that were for other characters. Additionally, you needed to collect blueprints (which, if I remember correctly, came in character-specific flavors, like the bananas) for the endgame, banana medals, ammo, and 2 tokens that were won by playing old games (not so bad).

Also, the game required you to constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY) switch between the 5 characters at special character-switch places, because the game is filled with character specific challenges that are character specific for no good reason (for example, there are switches that you have to hit with one of the 5 character's specific guns, even though the guns are all pretty much the same functionally).

Even so, the game has an awesome atmosphere and oodles of fun challenges/gameplay.

edit
Quote

The statement says that Microsoft offered the 20 million in exchange for the IP *from* Nintendo. You had it the other way around.

Oh yeah, whoops. Thanks for catching that. Guess we'll never see Banjo and Kazooie in a Super Smash Bros game.....
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Offline WackerJr

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2005, 11:19:02 AM »
With all these wish-lists of the games people are hoping for for the DS, did you guys respond Rare's website over the Summer when they asked people what games we would like to see on the DS?

I personally would quite like Banjo-Kazooie with a decent control scheme and finally answering the questions about "Stop N Swap" (see, it still hasn't been forgotten!). More games in the JFG saga would be good, but I'd be especially keen on seeing what Rare could come up with with the new hardware! As long as they also keep their sense of humour in it! I think being British like them I find it funnier!

Offline DAaaMan64

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2005, 09:23:22 PM »
Quote


3.  Jet Force Gemini



Hell yes on that.  That would be the best ever, I love that game.  

Anyways, in regards to Star Fox Adventures, that game was ok.  But it was really irritating for no reason some times.  But it also remindes me of how heartless, lifeless, and not charming, Rare games can be.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2005, 06:18:38 AM »
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH SFA?!?!?!? Please I keep hearing people bash this but its been my favorite game on the GC so whats tehd eal? I am not mad at people for not liking it I just want REASONS, dont give me cuz the end sucked either cuz the game was TO FRIGGIN GOOD to be ruined juts by that ending, which took it back to SF roots anyways and was kinda good in a way.

The levels were very well desgined, it wsa nice balance of story, action and solving puzzles, the music was absolutley fantastic, every single PS2 fanboy friend I have says its their favorite GC game as well bseides the SSBM and Mario Party games.

I felt relly drawninto this game and thought it was cool that Nintendo/Rare put so much effort into making a great Star Fox game that combined sapce battles ,which I didnt like too much, and Zelda style game play, which I love. The fact it introduced some new characters to teh series helped a lot and teh boss fights were fantastic, this game was exactly what the GC needed and was THE game my friends used to get me to switch up from N64 to GC when I did cuz I was still happy playing those N64 games that I hadnt beaten yet.

I admint I was HUGLEY DISSAPOINTED by the ending, but after teh last boss fight I was ok with it because I realized it was still a Star Fox game and SFA helped me get into that series, I passed on SF SNES and 64 because they didnt seam interesting to me, but after getting to know teh characters a little and finding out the space battels arent as bad as I rememebred them I gave the others a try and have sop far been fairly satisfied.



It irritates me to no end peopel call it utter crap with nothign to back it up. TELL ME WHY you hated it and I will ask you to go back and replay it and remeber who F&**ing fun it really was.


Peopel are allowed to have different tastes but if a game IS good why bash it whats the deal? what was so bad about it? If its cuz liek I didnt liek Sunshien cuz it didnt 'feel' like mario kinda thing I thought tehre were tons of space fighst that felt just like the regular SF, but I may be wrong. I also liked Assault but it seams to geta lot of flack too.



EDIT: Sorry for the rant but really I am curious what peopel didnt liek about it and ask if tehy tried going back. I have had games I didnt liek at first but after going back liked them alot more, Original SNES Staf Fox is oneof them FYI.

 
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2005, 07:22:20 AM »
People didn't like it because there was too much collecting - that's my impression.  I only rented the game, and I really enjoyed it, but I also didn't get very far in, so I can't say how good it was overall.
Also, hardcore Starfox fans were disappointed that it wasn't a great shooter, but I think that's a stupid complaint.  If the game is good, who cares if it borrows characters from another genre?
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline odifiend

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2005, 08:10:12 AM »
It was a linear Zelda rip off which shamed previous Star Foxes by having minute long flying missions, the battles were so boring since the enemies were polite enough to wait their turn to attack you, many of the surrounding characters were annoying or had annoying voices, and the ending was a freeking travesty.  How could you build up General Scales, give him his own f'ing language and then interrupt his fight?  
The problem with SFA's collection is that except for those tokens, you needed to collect everything to move on - I think it is next to impossible to not get 100%...  Technically the game is great, but i didn't find the game enjoyable, if that makes sense.
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #63 on: December 23, 2005, 05:19:13 PM »
I guess people are allowed to have opinions which Its good to be different. I just had to ask cuz I loved teh game and everyone says it is crap but never says why. I admit I was frustrated about knowing exactly where to go but not being able to get there because I had to go get some item that I couldnt find.

But I am confused about teh linear comments, um it may sound stupid to some of ya all but I am not sure what that means or how it relates to a video game anyways. Sorry for that being off topic but its a nother thing I read a lot and dont get.
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Offline Darkheart

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #64 on: December 23, 2005, 05:54:45 PM »
Linear video games mean you follow a certain path of plotpoints in the game.  Main character must go through A-B-C-D before getting to the end where as open ended gameplay gives you the option of getting A-B-C-D in no particular order to get to the end.  

Linear Game Examples

FFX
Xenosaga
Most typical old school RPG's

Non Linear / open ended games

Kingdom Hearts
Animal Crossing
The Sims
GTA

Offline odifiend

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2005, 04:46:32 AM »
SFA's linearity was especially restricting due to its item collection.  For example, the first time I beat Ocarina of Time, I beat the Fire Temple before the Forest Temple without even getting the Bow and Arrows which is out of order.  In Zelda, there are just so many more sidequests and expansions to find in which you have to go off the 'main' path to get. (Metroid too)
I guess Fox is a dog and must be kept on a leash...
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Offline animecyberrat

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2005, 04:09:48 PM »
thanks for explainng that I was confused. well I admit I found that frustarating in SFA but all the other elemnets were more than anough to keep me happy with the game, the story teh music the action it was all fun for me. But I cans ee the points people make and it makes more sense to why peopel didnt liek it other than what i was getting the impression of.  
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Offline Segnit BGS

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RE:Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2005, 03:50:01 PM »
As a supporter of all three hardware manufacturers, I come in peace.

I’ve played too many countless games (Over 150++) in the past 8 years on a multitude of consoles; Though I’ve never made a definitive list (though I should someday), I’d probably rank at least one Rare game in my Top 5 favorite games of all time list! (With Zelda: OoT being excluded from that list altogether for being a pioneering achievement) That definitely says a lot about my opinion on Rare! They used to be a heavyweight no doubt!

I’ve played all of Rare’s recent games. And I think that there is more then enough evidence to indicate that their quality and more particularly their output has been dwindling. They don’t ā€œsuckā€ but there is certainly an evidence of underachievement. Only a very tiny minority would flat out deny it.

Although I hate spitting on people’s fond memories of their games, I also hate being spitted on by the very companies I love and support.
For example: I hate when people are split into two camps about an ā€˜X’ game - love it or hate it. The ideal situation would be that the ā€˜X’ game is so truly amazing that everyone enjoys playing the game before going online and chatting about it. Thus the perfect game. But in reality such unanimity rarely happens.


Let’s take Star Fox Adventures as our prime example.
Was I excited about it before release? If you count as hunting down for every last picture and info on it as excited then, yeah, I was excited. Did I like the game? No. Did I have a bias against it? If I did, then why was I sooo excited about it before release? Was I faking the hype for myself? When jerking-off privately, do I prematurely tell my self ā€œThat orgasm was the bestā€ even though I still haven’t climaxed? Do I fake my enjoyment to myself? Does anyone?

Do I like the fact that I bloody hate SFA? Do I like to tell someone who bought it and enjoyed it, that I hate the game? No and No. I’m firmly against jeopardizing happy memories of people. In fact, I hate the fact that some people can enjoy SFA where as I’m stuck in the ā€œHate campā€ unintentionally. Rare caused the split in fans. I blame them for the fact that the game was wrongly hyped ā€œYou can go anywhere you seeā€ (NGC Magazine) and wrongly advertised to many fans who were avidly waiting for years for the games release.

Going one step further, let’s look at the timescale for the game. It was in the making for approximately 4 and a half years, give or take 6 months. With the notion that time is money; should people look and base their opinions on the game solely on its own merits or should opinion be of a more relative nature? Now this is the topic it all boils down too.

To this day even top reviewers are mostly undecided whether to rate games on a more relative scale or ā€œbase your opinion of the game On its Own Merits (OiOM)ā€ type of scale. Almost all reviews have elements of both types of marking system. But the type which is used most prominently is the ā€œOn its own meritsā€ (Henceforth refereed to as OiOM) scale. I believe that a likely explanation for this is that OiOM the more lenient of the two. And since fans can be easily aggravated over bad scores of their games, most publications simply remain faithful to their own optimistic, let’s call it… ideals.

If however, the games industry had its own living breathing God and all he did was love and foster his own industry for its ultimate growth. What system would he employ? Many different people would answer this question relatively compared with where they are in their gaming life.
An entry level gamer would probably (not definitely) want games to be rated based on OiOM. Since this newbie gamer hasn’t played other games to compare, a criticism like ā€œbeen there done thatā€ wouldn’t necessarily apply to him/her. Thus it’s not a stretch to say that OiOM goes well with less experienced gamers. Conversely, it wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine a Relative system doing well with more experienced gamers.

Think about it this way, if game developers mutually agreed to stop making advancements in game design, then everyone would have ended up playing all types of games at some point or another in their lives. Everyone would have ā€œbeen there done thatā€.

The conclusion that I want to get to is the following:
Did I enjoy SFA? Sadly I did not. Did I enjoy DK64? No, I honestly didn’t. I've been there and done that with both.
Did Rare return to form with Kameo and PDZ? According to me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. But will Rare ever make a game to justify their heritage? They most certainly will. Although I’ve been harsh on Rare for the last, I don’t know… 6 years; nothing is stopping me from loving their games again in the future except for Rare themselves.
Let’s not kid ourselves though; many people have lost confidence in Rare no matter who their owner is… whether it is Nintendo or Microsoft.
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Offline Segnit BGS

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2005, 12:45:01 PM »
I guess everyone's nodding in agreement with what i said just above! Great!
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Offline Rellik

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2005, 12:54:58 PM »
I personally liked SFA alot, as well  

Offline Segnit BGS

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RE: Rare working on 2 DS games
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2005, 12:58:50 PM »
See the thing is, i'm so happy that you enjoyed it and i only wish i could do the same. You're one lucky guy Rellik!
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