Topic: another interesting 1up article: Developer roundtable

[Stimutacs Addict]

concerning the intimidation factor:

Gamers don't look at the Xbox 360 controller and piss their pants. They think it looks pretty good, feels comfortable, etc. But if you ask your dad and mom to join you in a game of Perfect Dark Zero, you'll have a damned hard time convincing them to stick around, simply because there are so many moves that telling them what each one does is sensory overload.

I don't see how non-gamers will be frightened by the Rev controller, or even in the least bit put off. Once you explain the motion control, they'll want to try. They will only have to learn the location of two buttons, so there wont be a learning curve where they're looking down at the remote every time they're required to press a button.

I used to think Nintendo's strategy was folly, but after trying to teach my girlfriend how to play smash bros, I see how a simplified setup will open up the market. I can imagine Good Morning America or Regis and that dumb btch bringing a Rev on to show the wonders of technology.

As for complex games, yeah I think the hardcore fans are kinda screwed. We'll either plug the controller into the shell any time we want to take sam fisher on an adventure or developers will have to think of reduce multiple moves to a single context-sensitive button. I don't really like the thought of that.

[couchmonkey]

I know people that are intimidated by current gen controllers.  Most of them will get past it because everyone else is playing, but they don't buy consoles, and they normally prefer a simple game like Mario Party to a game like Halo or WaveRace.  I think Nintendo wants to go after those users.

I am a little surprised and worried that Nintendo is forcing third parties to make their games work on the standard controller layout.  I think that's going to scare some third parties away and make for some games that play very poorly without the controller shell.  However, I do think the remote can make things more intuitive if it's used wisely.

I think most of us could agree that at least one genre - First-person shooters, will be more intuitive on the Rev than on a regular controller.  Isn't it possible that it can make other genres play better too?  The improvements may not be obvious, but with a little imagination, maybe wall-jumping and back-flipping can be a lot easier in Super Mario 128 than in analog-stick games.

Edit: Stimutacs Addict, I don't think the nunchuck set up stops us from playing hardcore games at all.  It will put off some multi-platform developers, but Retro has already translated the Metroid Prime controls to this setup with no problems, I bet a lot of games cn be  translated if developers put the effort in.  What if Sam Fisher did all his complicated moves by gestures of the controller rather than by a big set of button mappings?  I personally can't remember the controls in Splinter Cell because they're so complicated and I'm just not that interested in the game, but if I could crouch by moving the controller down and sidle up against the wall by waving towards it, and wall-climb by flipping the controller sideways and "walking" it upwards, it would be easy to remember them.  I'm not saying that control set up would work, but we'll never know if nobody tries.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Sam Fisher can stay home and get fat.  NEXT FRANCHISE PLZ.

[Don'tHate742]

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I know people that are intimidated by current gen controllers. Most of them will get past it because everyone else is playing, but they don't buy consoles, and they normally prefer a simple game like Mario Party to a game like Halo or WaveRace. I think Nintendo wants to go after those users.

I have to agree. So many people I know enjoy playing gamecube, but don't own one because they don't see the need to. They play a couple games (mario party, smash bros., super monkey ball) and that's it. If Nintendo can persuade them that owning a console and it's several games is actually worth it, then that's just icing on the cake. Also, the cheaper price tag definitely helps...

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I think most of us could agree that at least one genre - First-person shooters, will be more intuitive on the Rev than on a regular controller. Isn't it possible that it can make other genres play better too? The improvements may not be obvious, but with a little imagination, maybe wall-jumping and back-flipping can be a lot easier in Super Mario 128 than in analog-stick games.

Well it can obviously help with racing, flying, FPS, and sports games. If you look at what people buy in NA, those genres come up the most frequently. Nintendo  has to lead the way though. If they can show a spectactular use of the REVmote in only two of those genres (FPS - Metriod, Flying - Starfox), then they got it made.

About racing games, I think WaveRace could quite possibly be the most fun racer to date. If you've ever ridden a jetskit, you would know that to make a tight left turn, you have to lean left and back. Fortunately, the REV can immitate that gesture flawlessly.

To play, you would hold the REVmote flat, with the front pointed towards the tv. This would act as the base of the jetski. To take a sharp left, you would point left and twist the leftside of the REVmote downward. To simply move left, you would point left. Again, this would replicate cutting the water and give you extremely precises controls. To dive, you tilt the REVmote foward. Brilliant.

[couchmonkey]

Yeah, WaveRace would play well...I think a lot of flight games could play well using a similar setup, probably snowboarding too.

[Don'tHate742]

I just realized that if your using your right hand, it could be very awkward taking a sharp right turn and vice-versa for left-handers.

I came up with two possible solutions:

1. Turn up the sensitivity, so that your wrist only moves 45 degress to the left and right instead of 90 degrees (which I was originally thinking).

2. Hold the REVmote at the bottom and use the small "a" button for acceleration. This helps with the ackwardness as well as allowing you even more precise movement and control (it would be easier to move a certian degree left). However, I don't know how comfortable it would be holding it at the bottom like that.

[KDR_11k]

I'd say hold the rod on both ends and turn it like a steering wheel.

[couchmonkey]

I think the controllers work in either hand, don't they?  Maybe the analog attachment works better for righties, I don't know for sure.

[Don'tHate742]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I'd say hold the rod on both ends and turn it like a steering wheel.

That would ruin the intuitiveness though. You don't drive a jetski like you would a car. Nor would you turn a snowboard by turning a wheel.

My idea allows for the controller to feel like what you are riding. I just don't know how awkward it would be when you turn left (for lefty's) or right (for righty's).

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I prefer the direction KDR is in.

[KDR_11k]

Are you using MAX or Maya? (i.e. which axis is "up"?)

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'm using the stupid calculus book I had in junior college.

+Z is the general up [away from the floor?], err umm, or the direction away from the plane of the 4 face-up corners of the controller [ x-cross-y? ], according to the right-hand rule.

I didn't think as far as what would happen if someone decide to play upside down while hanging from a tree branch with his/her arms extended towards the ground.  And I probably won't work out the details anyway.

But that IS the idea of how i'd like to hold it under my usual upright-sitting-in-couch gaming position.

[Don'tHate742]

Ok, I see...

Your effectively flipping the actual way you'd control a real swobard though.

When you turn sharply to the left, you rotate the controller to the left as well as bring the left side of the controller back. Is that what you are trying to describe?

Well if you freeze that picture in your mind for a second, you can see that if you were using my method for control, that it is essentially flipped. The controller (if holding the front in your right hand) is pointed towards the right and tilted to the right.

I see how your control would be far superior to even the best gaming steer wheel, and in racing games comparative to my method. However, I'm not so sure about snowbaording games and the like. Your control method is very intuitive for a racing game. I held a remote and imagined playing a game. When I turn really hard to the left or right, my instinct told me to pull back on the appropriate side; something that you can't even do in a car. For that I applaud the your control scheme. It will make for some very intense races.

But again, how intuitive do you think controlling a snowboarding game or wave race would be with that setup? Imagine playing 1080 with a steering wheel....it doesn't seem like a good fit.

If I had to choose, I'd go with yours because my has some faults, but who knows if there as huge as I make them sound.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I should've mentioned I was only concerned with Wave Race at the time of posting, but yes, I would like to try racers (Mario Kart... F-FREAKING-ZERO...) with the scheme I illustrated.  I never caught your snowboarding bit.

I've never ridden any jetski type craft, particularly the Wave Race kind, so I don't know how it controls -- as in -- What must I do to steer while holding onto the handles.  But I do know how Blue Storm controls, in that it has analog steering (mild leaning?), forward/back leaning/tilting, and extra-extra sideways leaning via L/R triggers.  That's what I tried to translate.

But for snowboarding, I'd imagine using something like yours.

Mario once mentioned holding the controller as if it were one of the jetski handles.  Missing the other handle would be awkward, but I can imagine being able to translate the relavant body movements to the scale of a single handle.

[Don'tHate742]

I think it's to small to actually hold like a jet-ski handle, which are unlike a motorcycle.

Also, the way you control a jetski is much like a motor-cycle and a snowboard. You lean a cooresponding way. To make a tight turn, you turn and lean the direction while leaning backwards at the same time. It's hard to explain, but its something that would be hard to translate with your control scheme.

P.S. F-Zero would be AMAZING. Its the perfect game for such a perfect control scheme. The R/L buttons for grip could be activated by pulling the right or left side towards you. The a/b buttons could be acceleration and attack. Brilliant!

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

umm FIXED YAY


The thought experiment is more important than the proposals.

[Kairon]

Warning: I didn't account for the bend of the conversation while posting the following embarassment:

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did you forget rotating of the controller and nose right nose left Pro666?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com