Topic: Play 360 at walmart....RIGHT NOW

[vudu]

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To tell you the truth it felt like I was playing Majora's Mask to a certain degree.

Hm ... Banjo-Kazooie is a rip-off of Mario 64.  Diddy Kong Racing is a rip-off of Mario Kart.  Are you really surprised Kameo is a rip-off of Majora's Mask?

Completely off topic, how was King Kong?  I'm kind of interested in it for GameCube.

[mac<censored>]

I stopped by the Tokyo "xbox 360 cafe" (in Aoyama/Omotesando) today.  The experience was pretty underwhelming after hearing all the hype.

Most of the games looked pretty much like xbox games.  The most impressive visually was Kameo, and that was largely due to the super high-resolution textures and nice lighting, but there was a sort of "high-res shimmer" to everything, like they weren't doing any anti-aliasing at all.  Kameo itself was extemely "Rare", technically very impressive, but weird twitchy control and an annoyingly generic feel to the characters and gameplay -- it felt almost exactly like starfox adventures!  [One very noticeable thing was that Rare went crazy with the normal-maps, just about every surface had that bumpy 3d look.]

The 360 controller was alright, the sticks felt good, but the button placement and feel sucked.  As someone mentioned, the controller body felt kinda flimsy and cheap, not very nice on an expensive system.

So I donno, it's not bad really, but hardly seems worth the high cost (or the hype).

[BranDonk Kong]

If you're not impressed by the graphics, play King Kong, it's absolutely amazing. There is some slowdown, but the monsters are gargantuan with brilliant detail. Also when you break trees and crap you see tons of detail and splinters that break off. The game kind of sucks though.

[ShyGuy]

I really wasn't that impressed with King Kong either, the model were pretty low poly and the effects weren't that great. For example if you shove the T-rex face first into the pond, water drips off his nose for a couple seconds after he comes out. But sometime it does this effect if you shove him into the dirt as well, and the effect is pretty static.

I liked Beyond Good and Evil though, so I'm hoping this will be decent.

[pudu]

Alright my local Walmart finally has their Xbox 360 working now so I checked it out.

The controller:

Overall I think they did a fairly good job with their new controller, much better then the original xbox one.  The main buttons (although not analog) had a pretty good feel to them...maybe a bit small but I'm used to the Cube controller so probably just not used to it.  The triggers felt very nice and smooth.  The shoulder buttons felt ok and all...but I hope that they don't expect you to hold the controller with your index fingers on the shoulder buttons and your middle fingers on the triggers.  I simply can't comfortably do this because my hands get really cramped.  I found myself akwardly moving my index fingers between them.  The "X" button was snazzy and looks to be quite useful, easily pausing the game and opening the menu.  The joysticks were very smooth.  Maybe too smooth though because in the CoD demo I had trouble moving my thumb small amounts due to the lack of resistance.

The interface/OS:

Very sleek and sexy.  Not much to say about this except it seemed well organized and simply yet robust all at the same time.  Nothing amazing but easy on the eyes and functional...can't ask for more.

The games:

CoD2 - this game was pretty awsome.  It's not that the graphics were any better then the PC (they are probably "worse") but the fact that I was actually playing a game kiosk on a HDTV with widescreen was what amazed me.  It kind of made me sad in a way, knowing that the Rev won't support HD or widescreen (at least not fully).  Overall I would rather play the PC version with similar graphics and mouse support but the 360 version was mighty impressive and emersive.

Kameo - another rare platformer.  I don't see it adding much in the way of innovation or new play mechanics, just improved visuals.  The game did look pretty damn nice with the shaders and bump mapping...but I couldn't get over the fact that all it was was another platformer-type game.  I found myself not caring and handed the controller over to someone else after a little while.  The different animals you turn to reminded me somewhat of Majora's Mask.  The control I found to be awkward.  You use the main face buttons to turn into different creatures and the trigger buttons to perform actions.  I have nothing against Rare but this game just didn't strike me as anything special.

What I walked away with:

After giving it a play I walked away with both excitement and dissapointment.  The fresh feel of the new controller and the new technology got me excited for what the future might hold this next generation.  On the other hand though, I left thinking about what Nintendo has been stressing for the longest time, innovation over horsepower.  Today's play further proved to me that graphics are a plus but not all of what next gen should be all about.  I mean, I played Kameo...it was in high-res and had flashy graphics but underneith it was the same old play mechanics recycled since Mario 64.  It's like a really hot chick that has a terrible personality.

I'm not saying the the Rev is the only console that can bring forth new innovation because it has its new controller, what I'd like to stress is that even without that interface the developers this next time around have to really dig deep and utilize the greater horsepower in more constructive ways then purely graphics.  I'm talking about physics, amount of characters on screen, AI, etc.  While it would be easy for developers to simply continue on their (lazy) path of upgrading what "works", the ones that strive for more will be the ones with the potential for true greatness.

Just like with people, in the end it is what's on the inside that truely counts

[Spak-Spang]

I also finally played the Xbox 360 at my local Walmart.

Here is my impressions:

Controller:  

This is a huge improvement over the Xbox 360 controller.  Buttons were comfortable to press, analog sticks were smooth, the analog shoulder buttons were nice.  My only complaint was that the top shoulder buttons were placed in a location that didn't comfortably rest around your fingers.  I found myself not even knowing those buttons existed while I played.  Obviously I could get used to it but...not that great.

The plastic around the controller did feel cheap.  It felt like it was a 3rd party controller and not a first party controller, if that makes sense.  I have a feeling that the Wireless controller that is more expensive will be made with better plastic and this wired controller is thrown together as a very cheap alternative.

The Games:

King Kong:

Very buggy demo.  I can't even believe Microsoft would even put this in to showcase the 360.  It was horrible.  I played the demo with the T-Rex battle, and the controls were not responsive, the game slowed down, and I couldn't figure out how to do anything.  It was pathetic.  I had high hopes for this game, and now I know its going to be the same trashy movie franchise game as usual.  Or atleast that is what the demo made it feel like.

Kameo:
This game's graphics were great, but the game and gameplay has easily been one of the most over-rated of all the Xbox games.  The game plays like everyother Rare platformer.  The best example of what this game feels like is: Grabbed by the Ghoulies.  Slow character movement and animation.  Non-intuitative controls.  Dull boring fighting mechanics.  Rare is very over-rated, and the only game I care about from them is Perfect Dark Zero...and the original Perfect Dark, but something tells me the sequel might be bad.

Call Of Duty:
This game was intense, it threw you into a massive battle for your life with no warning or instruction.  The graphics looked great in high defination, but besides the shine it really didn't look that much better than this generation.  I guess its like seeing Ghostbusters on VHS and then on DVD.  It looks shiner and cleaner, but its the same movie and really just as good in either format.  Also I think this demo is a horrible demo to show for the Xbox 360, because the demo is very difficult and isn't something you can jump into.  It would have been much better to have an early demo of Perfect Dark Zero than this game.

Overall, I felt the potential of the system, but also felt the excitement for the system die.

The truth is, IF you play computer games, then you won't really think you are getting anything more advanced than what we have now.  The best thing about the Xbox360 is the very slick controller, that is a perfect evolution of this generation of gaming.  

[IceCold]

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Maybe too smooth though because in the CoD demo I had trouble moving my thumb small amounts due to the lack of resistance.

Exactly....even with the original Xbox (and PS2) I felt the same thing - it's just too smooth. The Gamecube and N64 analogue sticks feel way better to me.  

[Spak-Spang]

I really think that the N64 may have been the best analog stick to date...the problem is that it wore out too easily.  But I would take a fresh N64 stick over any other analog stick.

A close second is the Gamecube Stick.  Nintendo's analog sticks just seem to have more points of variance, and you can actually FEEL where they are and what your character is doing.

Xbox 360 is 3rd place

Xbox actually did pretty good on their left analog stick, but I found the Right analog stick less than desirable.

The Sony Dual analog stick is easily the worst of the group.  Sensitivity is horrible, You lose your grip easy, and the layout is just horrible.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Spak-SpangThe Sony Dual analog stick is easily the worst of the group.  Sensitivity is horrible, You lose your grip easy, and the layout is just horrible.

Now in cool new Boomerang shape!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Stimutacs Addict]

im still wondering if nintendo is going to offer us good revolution tidbits to counter the xbox360 launch... yea, mario kart looks unfreakinbelievable, but they need to tell us some good Rev. stuff pronto, or else that 360 might really take off

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
im still wondering if nintendo is going to offer us good revolution tidbits to counter the xbox360 launch... yea, mario kart looks unfreakinbelievable, but they need to tell us some good Rev. stuff pronto, or else that 360 might really take off

Nah if the supposed shortages are as bad as I've been hearing then Microsoft will have limited themselves all by themself.  I think the lack of advertising and hype from MS leading up to the launch proves this.  Plus I simply don't see their launch lineup in general creating any sort of mass hysteria over it or anything.  If the system has as slow of a start as I think it's going to have then Nintendo (and Sony) doesn't have a whole lot to worry about for quite a while.  I think it's true what Nintendo had said in the past, their true competition is Sony.  As long as they either release close to Sony or do a good job of keeping the Rev. in a more positive light if Sony releases the PS3 first then I think they will do fine.

Kind of funny how little Sony and Nintendo seem to be worried over Xbox 360.  I don't think it will happen but let me just say that I wouldn't be entirely supprised if what some are saying is true and the 360 falls victim to some of Dreamcasts shortcomings.

[Stimutacs Addict]

if it does, I'm scooping up a used console w/ PDZ so I can play it on my HDTV when I get one in about 4-5 years

[Spak-Spang]

Kairon:  At least the boomerang shows that they may actually be working on the controller instead of assuming they had already perfected the design with the Dual Stick.


I think Nintendo has actually really seperated itself with the Revolution.  It isn't going to be copied (unless it is hugely successful) and it really does create a new gaming experience and market.  So Nintendo doesn't have to worry so much about Xbox 360.  Nintendo will get new players because the gadget really does look and feel futuristic.  

If Sony isn't worried about the Xbox 360 then they are fools.  Microsoft has money and the will to completely take over markets they enter.  And, Sony has been bleeding money for several years.  Microsoft will be a contender this year, and getting a head start in ALL regions (despite low numbers of product) will help cement a presence.  

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Kairon:  At least the boomerang shows that they may actually be working on the controller instead of assuming they had already perfected the design with the Dual Stick.


I think Nintendo has actually really seperated itself with the Revolution.  It isn't going to be copied (unless it is hugely successful) and it really does create a new gaming experience and market.  So Nintendo doesn't have to worry so much about Xbox 360.  Nintendo will get new players because the gadget really does look and feel futuristic.  

If Sony isn't worried about the Xbox 360 then they are fools.  Microsoft has money and the will to completely take over markets they enter.  And, Sony has been bleeding money for several years.  Microsoft will be a contender this year, and getting a head start in ALL regions (despite low numbers of product) will help cement a presence.

I don't think that Sony is all that worried at the moment, especially for a competitors launch.  If it turns out to be really big and gains momentum quick then yea I guess they better start to worry.  I guess I'm just assuming that it will take a bit of time for the 360 momentum to really kick into high gear and start to make its competitors sweat.

As far as the difference between Nintendo and Sony and how they view the 360 I think you are right.  For Nintendo they are different enough that they shouldn't be as worried as Sony, which is viewed as the only direct comeption to MS.  This being said I can see why Nintendo seems to not be in any rush to get the Rev out pronto and are taking their time with it.  I'm perfectly fine with this too.  I'm hoping for a mid 2006 Rev launch but if it takes until the holiday season to get the system just right and the games more polished so be it.  Their is something to worry about though, the longer they wait the more painfully apparent it is the GCN is dying and their image in the console market fades with it.

[The Omen]

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Judging by the demo I played I would say the graphical leap between the 360 and the Xbox is only a little bit more than the leap between the PS2 and the Xbox.

Which is significant..and with only a launch game.  That is already a big jump.

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Well I finally tried it today, and i was left very UN impressed, I played Kong and Kameo, the controller was very nice, but the graphics didn't really make a huge leap to me, I didnt see much of a difference. I'm understanding Nintendo's stance more and more now, something different is needed. Go Revolution!

Again, you're judging a launch title.  The games don't even begin truly utilizing the hardware until at least a year into the lifespan of a console.

I played it today, Call Of Duty, Madden, Kameo and Amped were all available.  I would say they look pretty nice, control pretty nice, and are...pretty nice launch titles.  Nothing to write home about as of yet.  But nevertheless, I am thinking of taking the plunge in a month or so.  It'll hold me over until the Rev.

[Artimus]

Launch title or not, Super Smash Bros. Melee looks ten times better than the N64 version. MUCH MUCH more than a PS2 vs. XBOX game.

This launch title thing is an excuse for poorly designed hardware or an unimpressive leap. No generation before has had to use that excuse.

[Bill Aurion]

I concur...This is the first generation ever where I've just not been impressed by first-gen software...

[Kairon]

Let's not lambast MS too harshly over this smaller-than-demanded graphical leap. After all, we all love the Dreamcast don't we? Well, think of the X360 as the Dreamcast and cut them some slack...

j/k.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: The Omen
Again, you're judging a launch title.  The games don't even begin truly utilizing the hardware until at least a year into the lifespan of a console.

Star Wars: Roque Squadron? DOA3? Regardless of how far this generation has come, some of those launch titles are still on par with the best we have seen recently and it only seems more likely that that same thing will apply to this generation.  

[Spak-Spang]

I think the graphics not jumping is because we are reaching a point in graphics that an artistic team can pretty much design a game to look like they envisioned with only few compromises.

Yes, I know we can't do photorealism and realisitic true to life animation, and lighting and such.  But for the most part a good creative team can get the system to pump out visuals that closely convey their original desire for the product.

Xbox 360 proves this by not really being a huge leap.  

[ThePerm]

no matter what devs say game development costs will go significantly down this generation...why? They own faster more efficient hardware.

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Launch title or not, Super Smash Bros. Melee looks ten times better than the N64 version. MUCH MUCH more than a PS2 vs. XBOX game.

This launch title thing is an excuse for poorly designed hardware or an unimpressive leap. No generation before has had to use that excuse.

Just wanted to point out that the leap this next gen to the 360 and PS3 both require some difficult hurdles by way of devolpers having to adapt to multicore processors.  I'm guessing most launch titles are only using one of the three cores in the 360's cpu.  I mean imagine that with the Gamecube the launch titles were limited to 1/3 the CPU's power.

Some other things to consider:

-the gen b4 GCN was the first consoles to really push 3D graphics and it probably wasn't too hard to improve vastly upon that

-there is no usual leap in graphics taking place like earlier consoles.
2D evolution = NES -> SNES
3D evolution = N64 -> GCN -> Rev???

I think that this may be why Nintendo is trying to bring something new to the table.  They may see it more like this
2D evolution = NES -> SNES
3D evolution = N64 -> GCN
VR evolution = Rev???

I understand that the Rev doesn't have VR headsets or anything but they are paving the way to the deeper control needed for a proper VR experience.

 

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: ThePerm
no matter what devs say game development costs will go significantly down this generation...why? They own faster more efficient hardware.

Which they will be using to produce far more complicated, and more time consuming to program, games... The only way your theory would work is if the games themselves didn't change at all from this generation, just the tools to make them improved.

[ThePerm]

even mark rein said...more than anything things are being taken over by the artists. As long as they have better tools to work with things will get faster. ALOT of artwork is dumbed down for current gen and this takes time to make it work. Now alot of work can just be used.

[pudu]

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Originally posted by: Arbok

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Originally posted by: ThePerm
no matter what devs say game development costs will go significantly down this generation...why? They own faster more efficient hardware.

Which they will be using to produce far more complicated, and more time consuming to program, games... The only way your theory would work is if the games themselves didn't change at all from this generation, just the tools to make them improved.

Yep just what I was thinking.  ThePerm does have a valid point though.  3d modeling and animation programs are constantly upgrading, along with the computers that run them, making the creation of the game's visuals both easier and better looking.  Also what's exciting is the new dev tools like physics engines, dynamic motion synthesis software, procedural landscape generators, etc.  The fact of the matter is though that there still will be a lot of work to do to take the visuals to the next level.  I think that with the introduction of new and better tools and PCs it will help negate the increase in time and man power but there will still be an unavoidable increase in the cost for developing the more epic and beautiful games.