Topic: G4 Interview with Iwata Reveals New Details

[Ian Sane]

"So basically Ian, what you're saying is that because third parties don't have high standards Nintendo shouldn't be innovative. Did it ever occur to you that the third parties should be following Nintendo not vice-versa?"

Nintendo ideally should provide a platform where third parties can do whatever they want good or bad and Nintendo themselves can excel and innovate at the same time.  To do that they have to be flexible but not too weird.  The NES and SNES were ideal for this because both third parties and Nintendo could do whatever they wanted, or at least what they could with the technology available at the time or in comparison to the competition.  The N64 didn't follow that design.  It allowed Nintendo to make what they wanted but not third parties and that's why all the third parties left.  I think the Rev runs the risk of falling into the "too weird" category where Nintendo can make whatever they want but third parties can't.

Neither group should follow the other.  It should be a partnership where they feed and learn off each other.

[denjet78]

Ian Sane:

From what I've seen, most people seem to think you're a troll or something of the like. However, I find you to be very interesting. You balance out all the "Nintendo" rhetoric as it were with some pessemism.

From the standpoint of discussion, that is required or else all you have is a Nintendo cheerleading site who are only all too willing to live within their own dilusions. That's why I like Nintendo gamers and Nintendo sites. Often you will find people willing to question their console of choice as well as the company behind that. I don't think I've seen that on any competing console sites. The fact that people were enraged over Wind Waker's makeover, that people are afraid and hesitent of the new controller. People need to question.

However, there is also the idea of evolution. One must evolve to survive. If Nintendo were to remain as they are, they will surely perish. Each succeeding generation has seen a drop in their market share. At this rate they'd be lucky to sell 10 million consoles next generation. But this isn't the same Nintendo. They're trying to reinvent themselves.

Nintendo isn't IN the same market as Sony and MS anymore. This controller all but removes them. Which is why I think it would be a VERY bad idea to pack-in the "traditional" (god I hate that word) controller shell in the box. Give people the option and then let THEM make up their own minds. It's so very sad how many people are afraid of change that they will stick to what they understand and attack anything that they don't blindly. At least TRY it first before you condemn it.

Do I think Nintendo is going down the right road? I couldn't tell you. In the end we won't know until it's all over. I can see them surviving and maybe even selling a few more consoles than the GC but I don't see them retaking the industry any time soon. Sony and MS have ensured that only THEY can produce what they've told gamers they need.

I've brought up the idea that Sony and MS were only in the industry as a way of sneaking hardware into peoples livingrooms and that as soon as they're deeply enough entrenched that they'd drop gaming like a hot potatoe and do you know what I received? Flaming, hatred, and out and out banning because my ideas didn't mesh with everyone elses. It's almost as if gamers are TERRIFIED to question Sony and MS.

And I really don't understand why that is as neither one could make a good game to save their lives (and I don't count companies that they buy as that's just as bad as EA and if anyone other than Sony and MS are going to bring this industry down, it's going to be them).

I would actually like to have an indepth conversation with you over email or some other medium as here, it's far too open and people can invade and attack. There's a certain phrase that I heard once and really liked:

A person is smart. People are stupid.

Anyway, I couldn't find any way of contacting you here so here's my email:

denjet78@hotmail.com

If you'd like to chat, drop me a line. If not, I'm sure we'll still end up having some lively debates on this board.

[Mario]

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Nintendo ideally should provide a platform where third parties can do whatever they want good or bad and Nintendo themselves can excel and innovate at the same time.

That's exactly what Revolution is. Thank you! You have done a complete 360.

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The fight's coming to them and running away from it, like they're doing with the Rev, isn't going to save them from it.

Sony and MS are using swords, Nintendo has a wooden tree branch. It's not wise to stubbornly keep fighting, instead they run off and grab a shotgun, which does two things, it defeats them, and makes their weapons look terribly outdated. There's still the option of hitting them in the head with the gun too!

[vudu]

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From what I've seen, most people seem to think you're a troll or something of the like.

I don't think any of us think Ian's a troll.  We all know he's a very big Nintendo fan who is generally concerned about the direction the company is heading.  However, that doesn't mean that we don't occasionally get tired of his constant negativity.

[Bill Aurion]

Just because they say it doesn't mean that they WILL.

Just because YOU say they won't doesn't mean they actually WON'T...It works both ways...

[Ian Sane]

"That's exactly what Revolution is. Thank you! You have done a complete 360."

Third parties can't do whatever they want if the PS3 and X360 gives them eight buttons and Nintendo gives them two.  I think we have to know more details before we declare that kind of flexibility.  Is Nintendo including the analog stick attachment with every controller?  What about the shell?  What does the shell even look like?  From what we KNOW the Rev controller is, I don't think the flexibility is there.  The remote by itself isn't accomodating enough.  We need to know exactly what is being shipped with every Rev.

Plus we haven't even seen the specs yet.  Hardware can affect things like framerate, AI, and how many characters are on screen at once.  The specs will play a big role in how flexible the Rev is.

We've seen what the Rev does differently but not what it does the same.  It's important that it can also do what the competition can.

[ShyGuy]

blah, do you complain that your mouse doesn't have as many buttons as your keyboard?

[vudu]

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opĀ·tiĀ·mist
n.
1. One who usually expects a favorable outcome
2. Bill Aurion

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pes'siĀ·mist
n.
1. A person who expects the worst
2. Ian Sane

[Ian Sane]

"Just because YOU say they won't doesn't mean they actually WON'T...It works both ways..."

Fair enough.  It's a trust issue.  Nintendo has broken promises enough times that in situations where I'm skeptical their word isn't good enough to me anymore.  So if I'm concerned about this non-gamer focus "Nintendo said it's cool" isn't enough to convince me.

If they do prove me wrong though I'll be a lot more trusting next time something like this comes up.

[OptimusPrime]

What is Nintendo? The most innovative gamecompany in the world. Innovation is a tradition at Nintendo (and Japanese are big on traditions). With innovation comes also risk.
Let's go back in the past. the 80's, the gameindustry crashed thanks to Atari's pooping crapgames, it was announced DEAD. Nintendo (then still toycompany that also made arcade games) made the NES. The NES actually had a huge innovation value (maybe higher then the Revolution) and was a huge risk for Nintendo. But it defined gaming up to this day and would be the first step to a industry rebirthing from its ashes. Why did third parties loved the NES, not because they could make whatever they want, it was the standard and it was the only one out there.
in the next 3 generations new additions would be made to the to the old standard.

It is in Nintendo's nature to reinvent itself and to reinvent the way we play games, sometimes they do a very crappy job off it, most of the times they don't.

You have to look to the gamemarket as a fishingpool. Sony and Microsoft are so focused on that pool, always extending their fishingrods and making them bigger, faster and whatever while Nintendo is looking at a way to break the dam that separates that fishing pool with another, bigger pool just next ot it. Nintendo invented the fishingrod Sony and Microsoft are reusing over and over again but the rod is not enough to break the dam so they needed to invent something else that can break it. The problem is, the other pool has different kinds of fish in it then the gamingpool that trough generations past has accomstumized itself to always take the same bait (however there are also quite some smart fish that like something fresh). So not only do you need to break the dam, you need to have something that can catch those new fishes (they don't like those huge intimidating flashy overkill baits, scares them off like hell).

Nintendo could have made something that not only can break the dam but also catch the those new fish while making their new invention FLEXIBLE enough they can ADD stuff that will also appeal to the gamingfish. This is (very metaphorical) my interpertation of what Iwata actually said in that interview. They wanna catch as many fish as possible and they have the flexibility to do it.
Nintendo offering ideas to third parties i can only encourage, making deals that the rev-port of game x (lets say EA Baseball 200X) actually uses the remote in a good way (maybe they learned from the DS) i can only encourage, also explains why there are so few Rev-games announed, everyone is still under some sort of NDA not to show gameideas in action.

Iwata hoping that X360 and PS3 fans will buy the Revolution as a second console is a good thing just because i want to see those die-hards reactions so we know who are actually gamers. Hoping they can open up to some truly new stuff.

The problem offcourse: risk, this is a huge risk that can easily blow up in their faces if they don't get everything right. Nintendo can't compete with Microsoft or Sony because it doesn't have 10-15 billion dollars ready to waste on a product that will never run a profit (you can compare Xbox with Chelsea actually, they really bought their position). The problem also is that we don't know everything, we're far from it. We need to see games, announcements, releaselists, third parties really talking freely without some NDA sticking out of their ass ready to blow their guts if they move wrong, techsheets for those interested. We know truly to little to actually make a full-blown comment on the Revolution and that starts to eat at some people's guts (unconscience offcourse).

Nintendo is on the verge of reinventing itself and is trying to reinvent or atleast expand the gamingindustry. That's always a huge risk and they deserve huge credit for that alone. Now we have to wait and observe and try to puzzle everything togheter untill we have to complete picture and then we can really squable about it. Problem is, Nintendo is the only who can feed us those puzzlepieces... teasing bastards...

Is Nintendo being a bit stubborn, yes, with the N64 and GC (a bit less then the N64) they did but did but did not add enough flexibility for the third party. This time it looks they are going to be stubborn but in a good way (lots of flexibility). But we don't know whats under all those NDA's ,we don't know whats Nintendo is cooking, we don't know sooooo much that can be soooo determing in a way we're not allowed to discuss it, only observe and wait for the time when we can discuss.

[Pale]

Ok, I didn't read the entire thread, but I think you guys (PGC Staff included) completely botched what Iwata meant.

He wasn't saying that Nintendo isn't going to try and be number 1, instead trying to be everyone's second console....

He was pointing out why differentiation is good...

I think what he meant is more along the lines of "If Sony or MS still manage to sell more units than us, I think we will still be in a good position to sell to people as a second console."

He's not conceding, rather pointing out how differentiation can be both a Plan A and a Plan B.

[King of Twitch]

Nintendo hopes those hardcore enough to care about the graphical differences and buy a PS3 or Xbox360 will also buy a Revolution

-Not bloody likely.

Nintendo has approached publishers and developers with gameplay concepts, proposing how their established franchises could benefit from Revolution's controller.

-This is a great step, but I hope that 'their' refers to the third parties' franchises, and not just on Fzero or Star Fox

[Pale]

Ok, I read the thread now...

Anyway, as usual, it's comical to read Ians posts.  It could be a robot for all we know.  IAN ISN'T REAL!

But anyway... for all of those who freak out soooo much about third party support and whether or not Nintendo will be number 1... don't you ever consider buying a second console?  If you do.. then why do you care?

If you don't, why don't you?  Expense?  That's understandable given the upcoming generation... but you don't have to buy a 360 or ps3 on launch.  I guarantee their price drop will come quickly if nintendo comes in at 200 as most expect.

Nintendo doesn't have to be number 1 in order for you all to validate your lives.  the GCN era of games has been my favorite yet....  yet Ian will tell you its the worst yet... maybe you all need to adjust your thinking a bit.

[Renny]

Here's a tip for G4: cut out all shots of your dickhead 'personalities' from interviews. That's all. And your channel sucks.

[Ian Sane]

"This is a great step, but I hope that 'their' refers to the third parties' franchises, and not just on Fzero or Star Fox"

I read it as the third parties' franchises.

"If you don't, why don't you? Expense?"

Pretty much yeah.  Aside from the console cost you have to buy more controllers, memory cards and accessories too.  Personally I think it would eat up a whole lot of time as well.  I try to keep up with Nintendo news.  I just sort of glance at the news for the other consoles.  Trying to keep up with two consoles would take a lot more of my time.  I want Nintendo to have more variety but if I owned every console and had access to every game it would probably be too much and I would seriously hurt my bank account.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

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This is a great step, but I hope that 'their' refers to the third parties' franchises, and not just on Fzero or Star Fox

Yes, "their franchises" = third party franchises.  I didn't think I was being ambiguous when I used that pronoun, but you could have watched the interview to clarify your confusion.  

[Pale]

Ian, is it alright if I point out just how... I dunno, unrealistic you are?

If part of the reason you don't want another console is because you think it will be too much on both you and your wallet.... what happens if every third part game is released for a Nintendo system.. don't you have the same problem?

It sounds like you are asking that Nintendo court exactly the right amount of third parties, etc. to make you happy, and if they got too many, you would resume your complaining.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

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From what I've seen, most people seem to think you're a troll or something of the like

I don't think anyone thinks of Ian as a troll, just as the guy who will always tries to rain on your parade.  I mean I don't think in the years I've posted on this board I've ever heard a positive comment from him, he's the Eyore of the PGC forums (you know, the donkey from Winnie the pooh) .

Ian have you forgotten that the Rev not only has ports for the wavebird/gcn controller, nintendo has also stated thea they are working on a shell for the controller to mimic a traditional controller, not only that the Rev will have wi-fi capabilities and BW compatibility...where's the complaint?

yes they said that they are expecting the rev to be system two for many, but there are reasons for that:

1)It'll be the last to launch
2)Its definetly different from the other systems and that may scare away devs and hardcore gamers
3)It'll lack the graphics power of the other two systems
4)It's price makes it a great 2nd system choice, because once you've blown $400+ on the PS3 or 360, you probably won't want to do it again on the other one, but a $200 or so system will look very attractive.

[KnowsNothing]

Ian suffers from "selective listening."

Nintendo says they're going after hardcore gamers- Ian, "La la la, blah blah blah."  Nintendo says they're going after non-gamers- Ian, "Nintendo doesn't care about me Nintendo are doomed!"

[Pale]

I'm also sick of people saying it lacks the graphics power...

In a sense, that will be true...  But it is very likely that the Rev games will look just as pretty, if not more so, as the other systems on a standard def set.  Higher resolutions require more processing power... Standard Def gamers will not benefit from most of the added power Sony or MS may have.

By not supporting these ultra high resolutions, Nintendo can achieve the same standard def performance with cheaper hardware.

The only way this will be untrue is if you see XBox developers upping framerates, polygon counts, etc. based on if the game is not being displayed at the high resolution, which most likely will not happen.

[Ian Sane]

"If part of the reason you don't want another console is because you think it will be too much on both you and your wallet.... what happens if every third part game is released for a Nintendo system.. don't you have the same problem?"

Nintendo would never get that though.  They didn't even have all of the great games during the NES days.  So it's unrealistic.  I wouldn't complain if Nintendo had too much variety.  I'm just saying I don't want to have to keep up with two consoles.  If Nintendo got third party support back to a really high level I would have to intentionally limit myself which would be a little annoying but it would be worth it.  It's paying attention to two consoles that would bother me the most.  I know I would neglect one.

If you have more than one console and you don't want to spend too much money you're probably going to stick with the really big releases and miss most of the "second tier" stuff.  Guys who own the Cube as a secondary console get stuff like Mario, Metroid and Zelda and then miss out on stuff like Pikmin because their attention is spread too thin.  I personally would prefer to own one console and dedicate my attention to that.  So that one console has to provide enough variety on it's own to suit my needs.

[Pale]

With me it's the opposite.  I own a PS2 but still only concentrate on Nintendo stuff for the most part.  I just get to play things like DDR, FF, Kingdom Hearts, RPGs in general, and the occasional platformer like Sly or Ratchet.  In a perfect world, wouldn't you only ever need the third party games you want to come to a Nintendo system?  It's not that hard for me to 'accidently' get news about the good PS2 games that interest me.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

But you are making the assumption that the Revo will lack a variety of games.

It could turn out to have a very wide variety of games, not to mention games not found anywhere else.

[Pale]

Also, now that I own both consoles, that doesn't even come into my decision process.  I don't care what console I'm playing the game on.  The pool of games I can choose from is just a lot bigger.  I love Nintendo becuase, even given that fact, I still buy more Nintendo games cause it's what I like.

[Artimus]

The humorous thing is that Ian is asking Nintendo to be Sony and MS, but they don't have any of Nintendo's franchises.

There is no perfect selection of games for any system! Period. If you'd rather GTA than Zelda, why do you own a GCN? If you want both, well, you can't have it. You can blame Nintendo (though I'm not sure throwing money at developers is something we should want more of) but why not blame Sony and Microsoft? Do Sony and MS have better third party? Yes. But they have weaker first party. MS has Halo but not Metroid. Nintendo doesn't have Rockstar but Sony doesn't have Nintendo. Essentially, Ian, you're mad because Nintendo isn't going third party. You want to play Nintendo games on a Sony system. Which is therefore Nintendo's fault. Nevermind Nintendo has always been the most consumer friendly system. Sony and MS may sell more systems, but they're doing it on the basis of all the world's developers and a few exclusives. Nintendo sells 18 million systems almost entirely for their games.

Basically, Ian, you want Nintendo to do what no one else has ever done: have every single good game. It's impossible. You say you want such-and-such a game but the problem is you cannot go out and buy a Playstation because then you'll be missing such-and-such a game. You just choose to blame Nintendo because you're a Nintendo fan. Which comes down to the fact that your opinion carries little value, as it's impossible to appease and solely focused on Nintendo because you want their games more than Final Fantasy, etc.