Topic: So what's the deal? No more Revolution news until E3 '06?

[BlackNMild2k1]

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Originally posted by: Don'tHate742
Rancid Planet: You crack me up man...keep up the good work!

[The Omen]

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Comparing a controller change, particularly one this major, to the switch from tapes to CDs isn't a good comparison. Listening to music is a passive experience. You don't have to do anything. Provided you're still hearing music and it still sounds pretty much the same then any change is easy to adapt to. Same with tapes to DVDs. You look at a screen and watch a movie.

You are forgetting the main factor-they had to buy new equipment to view the same movies, or listen to the same music.  Get it?  And they were willing to do so, sometimes at outlandish prices.  (DVD players, and CD players debuted for over $1000).  In that regard, it is a good comparison.  It's buying a whole new tech, to do the same things, only easier.  But in Nintendo's case, they want to do this, and supply even better material, not just the same old, same old.

Both examples are a change in the way of doing the same things.  The point is not the music, the games, or the movies.  It's the technology in which we listen/watch/play them.

[Caliban]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Comparing a controller change, particularly one this major, to the switch from tapes to CDs isn't a good comparison.  Listening to music is a passive experience.  You don't have to do anything.  Provided you're still hearing music and it still sounds pretty much the same then any change is easy to adapt to.  Same with tapes to DVDs.  You look at a screen and watch a movie.  

Gaming is an active experience so it's much harder to adapt to.  You have to get used to doing different things to get the same results.  It's not like switching from tapes to CDs.  It's more like switching from guitar to piano.  You have to do different things to produce the same note.

And this coming from the guy that used the release of New-Cola to substitute the Old-Cola as an anology for the NRC. Hey, we all make mistakes, don't we?!

[Ian Sane]

"You are still doing the same thing, so comparing it to switching from guitar to piano isn't logical...You are taking a 'guitar' and making it easier to use..."

Someone obviously has never played an instrument before.

[Rancid Planet]

Unless you count the "skin flute"!...AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH(Brick flies from across the forum and hits Rancid Planet in the head)FLOPTHUMP!

[Bill Aurion]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You are still doing the same thing, so comparing it to switching from guitar to piano isn't logical...You are taking a 'guitar' and making it easier to use..."

Someone obviously has never played an instrument before.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about videogames...

[Rancid Planet]

Well see, that's why you're stupid Bill. Now either start talking about music or get out of the Planetofftopic forums!

[Avinash_Tyagi]

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Gaming is an active experience so it's much harder to adapt to. You have to get used to doing different things to get the same results. It's not like switching from tapes to CDs. It's more like switching from guitar to piano. You have to do different things to produce the same note.

But thanks to the controller shell, this is a piano that can be held and played like a guitar

Also Ian, why are you so critical of everything that nintendo produces before you get a chance to try it?  As I recall you hated the DS idea when it was announced and that's turned out pretty well for nintendo.

[Rancid Planet]

I remember when Ian was more positive. Of course then again we were ALL positive at the start of the GCN era.

And a piano you can hold like a guitar? Yeah if you're The freaking Big Show.

[vudu]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"You are still doing the same thing, so comparing it to switching from guitar to piano isn't logical...You are taking a 'guitar' and making it easier to use..."

Someone obviously has never played an instrument before.

What about the Whammy bar?  I'm sure that seemed pretty far out there when it first came out.  Or how about that pedal that makes your guitar go wah-wah-whaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!?

[Ian Sane]

"I remember when Ian was more positive."

So do I.  Things were so much more fun when I thought the N64 was a fluke and that without the stupid cartridge goof-up Nintendo would be able to make up tons of lost ground.  It really sucks to watch a company you love screw up some of the most easy things imaginable all while eating away at your patience and enthusiasm until you're all cynical and don't trust the company to do anything right anymore.  Being a Nintendo fan for the last five years has been like watching a loved one destroy their life in front of you.

[Bill Aurion]

Which only makes it more amusing because you want Ninty to do the same things next gen as this generation (only traditional gaming) which would further drive them into the dirt...  

[PaLaDiN]

No, Ian wants them to do only the good things they did from this generation and the last one. He wants them to die fighting for videogame Vietnam with the same weapons they've been using since WWI. I think it's the nobility of it that appeals to him.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Personally I think Nintendo has a great idea with the rev "remote controller" not only does it allow for a new form of immersion in the games, but its appearance will be comforting to the non gamer, something anyone can pick up and play.

Not only that but it solves the problems of traditional games with the controller shell and GCN ports.

Basically you'll be able to play pretty much every game type currently on the market, along with a bunch of new ones as well.

[Ian Sane]

"Which only makes it more amusing because you want Ninty to do the same things next gen as this generation (only traditional gaming) which would further drive them into the dirt..."

No I want them to do what they SHOULD have done this gen.  That would not drive them into the dirt.  The Cube's "failure" is not due AT ALL to traditional games.  It has entirely to do with Nintendo f*cking stupid little things up that anyone with half a brain spotted 100 miles away.

Nintendo would be on the way back up if they just stopped shooting themselves in the foot.  This new strategy is just going to alienate them more from the current gaming market.  They'll either dig themselves into an even bigger hole or they'll be forever niche with their precious non-gamers while the hardcore gaming crowd completely ignores them.

Nintendo's biggest problem can be summed up with "Xbox 360 or PS3?"  This strategy won't fix that.

[Kairon]

Nintendo's biggest problem is that all of it's so called "fans" seem to think it's a matter of life and death tp sell 100 million consoles and seem to thirst for the experience of gleefully, maliciously watching a hated antagonist fail.

I don't think that's how Nintendo themselves measure success. You gotta ask yourself, "What would Miyamoto do?"

The man who made Mario, I believe, could care less whether he sells 20 million consoles or 40 million, he could care less over whether the games he's put his heart and soul into are described as homosexual or whether he's protrayed as an out-of-touch eccentric who isn't relevant to today's age.

It's the fanboys who seem to feel the need to prove themselves by demolishing an imaginary opponent. In the meantime, all Miyamoto is hoping to do is create new games that are fun, innovative, and rediscover the magic that we all associate with his best games.

We all say we love Nintendo. We all say we really want them to succeed. But do we want them to succeed according to our standards or their own? How do we measure our love? Our success? Do we love Nintendo enough to let them risk failure?

Are we parents forcing their child to become a TV pop idol, or the next Olympic skater, or the star football quarterback? Are we people who can define our satisfaction in celebrities by how often they pop up in the tabloids, or whether their divorce was messy or clean? Are we people who only measure art by how much it can sell for, who only measure a college basketball team by how many star players it can bribe to sign up, who will only stay friends with someone as long as they've got money and radiate success?

I don't think Miyamoto is any of those people. I don't think he even cares about the same things, the market, the mindshare, the perception, the money.

And I don't think I want to be any of those people too. As a Nintendo fanboy, I'm willing to let Nintendo succeed or fail on their own terms, because I believe in them enough to accept that it's not beating a game that counts, it's how much fun you had while playing.

Actually, that's it. I judge my Nintendo by the fun they can create. And they've never once failed me on that point.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[wandering]

^

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Originally posted by IanSane:
No I want them to do what they SHOULD have done this gen. That would not drive them into the dirt. The Cube's "failure" is not due AT ALL to traditional games. It has entirely to do with Nintendo f*cking stupid little things up that anyone with half a brain spotted 100 miles away.

You keep talking about Nintendo's obvious mistakes Ian, but I honestly don't see them.
Smaller disk sizes? That was a good trade-off between load times and disk space, and it worked well for 90% of the games. Toyish appearance? They were trying to make the system more fun-looking and inviting. Inferior graphics? They found a good middle ground between power and price, and the system produces extremely impressive visuals. Poor launch line-up? I'm sure launching with a photo-real Star Wars game, Super Smash Bros, a new Miyamoto IP, a new Wave Race AND a new luigi game didn't seem like a bad idea at the time....especially in comparison to PS2's lineup.  No DVD player? They were keeping costs down by removing extraneous extras. Bad advertising? Cube's ads were pretty cool in the beginning, actually. Not great, but not nearly as bad as the N64's early ads apparently were.

Now, some of these things, in retrospect may look like bad desiscions. But I wouldn't call any of them obvious mistakes. If you want to talk about obvious mistakes, talk about launching with a crap lineup, or making over-hyped overly fragile hardware, or not making enough hardware for launch, or launching with the most gigantic/uncomfortable controoller ever, or making the biggest/ugliest system ever, etc.

You did get one thing right, though: you don't want Nintendo to do next generation what they did this generation. You want Nintendo to make a CLONE of their competitor's systems, and then put Nintendo's games on it. And if Nintendo did that, they wouldn't be Nintendo.

[PaLaDiN]

"No I want them to do what they SHOULD have done this gen. That would not drive them into the dirt. The Cube's "failure" is not due AT ALL to traditional games."

I've seen you make this point before but I never saw you back it up. How come the NES sold better than the SNES, Ian? Wasn't SNES the better console in your opinion? Do you think Nintendo made any really obvious mistakes there? Why didn't they go up further?

I think one of us is in denial here but I'm not sure who it is. Either they're failing because they're STILL offering the traditional control and games (and you're in denial because you love those games) or they're failing because they've been making massively stupid mistakes ever since the NES (and I'm in denial because I don't really believe that).


Edit: Besides, Kairon is right. The GC has definitely been my favorite console so far. I've got more games than I can count for it at the moment. Judging it by any standard that doesn't involve money, the GC was a resounding success for me... something I hadn't felt since the NES.

[Artimus]

Ian has a fundamental misunderstanding of Nintendo's mistakes, so it's pointless to argue with him. He knows what they were, but has no clue the causes.

[The Omen]

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I've seen you make this point before but I never saw you back it up. How come the NES sold better than the SNES, Ian? Wasn't SNES the better console in your opinion? Do you think Nintendo made any really obvious mistakes there? Why didn't they go up further?

I'll field that one, Ian.  The NES sold better because they kicked Segas ass.  The SNES would have done the same, were it not for the massive ego of Nintendo, and the oppurtunism of Sega.  Sega released the Genesis 2 years prior to the SNES.  Which is why it didn't sell as well.  Sega were ensconced as a true 16 bit system, and began to eat away at the NES stranglehold.  Finally, slow witted Nintendo woke up and said, "hey, we better do something" and released the SNES, which coincidentally is still the best system of all time.

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Edit: Besides, Kairon is right. The GC has definitely been my favorite console so far. I've got more games than I can count for it at the moment. Judging it by any standard that doesn't involve money, the GC was a resounding success for me... something I hadn't felt since the NES.

Poppycock!  The Snes had the best game lineup possibly ever.  It had the best game in every genre...perhaps ever.  While I like my GC, the only thing better about it over the Snes has been the graphics.  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Concerning mistakes, Nintendo Power's redesign had a VERY promising start, but now they're back in the pile.

These are the past 5 cover-page features:

1.  Twilight Princess (cool)
2.  Mario Kart/Wi-Fi (cool)
3.  Shadow the Craphog (OMG teh suck)
4.  Harry Pothead and the Sparkle Stick (OMG teh ghey)
5.  Pokemon: Fail'd Emoticon (meh, ENOUGH ALREADY)

That's 3 consecutive months of weakness.  Great way to deter readers and induce vomitting.  Shadow was never interesting nor cool to begin with.  EA + Movie License + Pubescent Dork = TRY AGAIN NEXT MONTH.  And Pokemon, one of the central causes for Nintendo's "artificial" audience -- an audience that may have bought Nintendo consoles and increased sales numbers on paper, but never bothered with the likes of Conker, Perfect Dark, Eternal Darkness, Geist (you gcn owners make me sad), Resident Evil, and countless other 3rd party games -- attracts the wrong kind of customers and deters the right kind, one with greater and varied buying potential.  It displeases me to touch my mail and see these covers, and they do a good job of not being looked at and accumulating piles of unsold magazines at my local gamestores.

3 consecutive months of FAIL.  Why not feature Geist?  Another Code?  Phoenix Wright?  One Piece?  Mario Baseball?  Advance Wars DS?  Battalion Wars?  Castlevania DS?  Fire Emblem will be featured next month, but why did it take 4 months to finally showcase something worthwhile?  Cuz you are teh SUCK, Nintendo?

*SPEWS FORTH OPINIONATED MADNESS*

[wandering]

Completley OT, but, Omen, I agree with you about GC...and would like to take it a step further by saying, the GameCube is the absolute worst home console Nintendo has ever made. You cannot look at mind-blowing games like Super Mario Bros, LOZ, ALTP, M64, OOT, etc, and say that GameCube has offered anything better. Even as far as the graphics are concerned, I HATE this generation's graphics...because they essentially represent the worst kind of distracting, glitchy near- photo-realism; IMO they actually tend to look worse than graphics from the more abstract N64 era.  

[Bill Aurion]

Prof, you're WRONG!  OPINIONS ARE SILLY THINGS!

[PaLaDiN]

"Poppycock! The Snes had the best game lineup possibly ever. It had the best game in every genre...perhaps ever. While I like my GC, the only thing better about it over the Snes has been the graphics."

"You cannot look at mind-blowing games like Super Mario Bros, LOZ, ALTP, M64, OOT, etc, and say that GameCube has offered anything better."

We're talking about Gamecube, right? I see your LOZ, AlltP and Oot and I raise you a WW/4 swords, both of which I enjoyed more than any of those (especially OoT... massively overrated).  You listed the wrong Marios... Mario 3 was the best. You forgot to mention Super Metroid, but Metroid Prime 1/2 trounces it in every way (my secondmost favorite game ever). Chrono Trigger/FF6? Tales of Symphonia (my favorite RPG). Street Fighter/Mortal Kombat? SSBM (one of the only fighters I actually care about). I never got into Goldeneye. What am I missing? Oh right... ED, RE4, VJ1, Pikmin 2. Tell me again why N64 and SNES should appeal to me more? Especially the N64... at least the SNES was decent for its time.

Hell, I like the GBA more than the SNES and N64 combined, and the DS is getting there; all it needs is Zelda and Metroid Dread (what happened to that game?).

But that's just my opinion. You can lynch me now.

[wandering]

"OoT... massively overrated"
What? WHAT? WHAT?

"N64... That was a boring console"
AAAAAHHHHH!

Okay, here's the thing. Nothing ever beats one's first time. If you live in some kind of alternate universe where the GameCube came out before the N64 came out before the SNES, etc, then I could maybe understand your opinions. Otherwise, you cannot possibly tell me that anything on the cube beat running around outside peach's castle in Mario 64, or stepping onto Hyrule field for the first time in OOT, or riding Epona for the first time, or flying with the wing cap for the first time......

(I mostly also feel the same way about the old school mario games, though your opinion about Mario 3 is more widely held.)

....
Anyway, back on topic, in a new interview with ign, Reggie spoke thusly:  "We will continue to pull the curtain back over the next few months". I expect we'll know a heck of a lot more about REV before year's end.