Topic: Developer/Editor Feedback regarding the NRC

[nemo_83]

The reason SK's games didn't sell is because they didn't advertise the games.  Nintendo treated the games like they were embarrassed to release them because they were mature.  They were a lot better than that Geist turd.  

I just don't know why they did not push ED and MGS heavily.  What GameCube needed was a face lift in the terms of image and SK's games could have gone a long way in showing the industry that Nintendo is publishing mature games.  They didn't advertise the games and the games didn't sell thus giving Nintendo what they must have really been wanting which was dwindling third party support because Nintendo had not reached out to PS2 or Xbox gamers to expand their console base with the software they had.  Instead they super duper deformed Zelda not helping to push the console to non-Nintendo owners who were still stuck on getting over the asthetics of the purple Fisher Price lunchbox.  Nintendo spoke to the consumer that it was underpowered when it really wasn't.  Nintendo spoke to the consumer that there was nothing but kid games when there were actually some great mature games from Nintendo themselves.  All it lacked was the help of third parties and the only one who saw this was Capcom, but when other third parties would not contribute Capcom was forced to port their games to the PS2 and cancel others.  Right now Nintendo needs to be convincing several third parties to get out at least one mature game each for the Revolution early so that the console will demonstrate to gamers through software that the system is serious and there will be more serious games there in the future.  Nintendo needs to fight MS's spin; they do not need to let third parties dump micro sparkling innovation games all over the Revolution destroying the image.  



SK makes high quality games and they make really high quality games with Nintendo, but I can understand why Nintendo didn't want to fund Too Human and I can understand why Dennis was willing to leave a safe deal with Nintendo in order to tell his story.  

[Hostile Creation]

Wasn't MGS a remake of a game from the Playstation 1, released around the time a new installment was being made for the PS2?
That was a bad idea from the start.

Also, stop whining, Nemo.

[Bill Aurion]

MeriStation: We saw statements (from [Nintendo President] Satoru Iwata's video conference) about the Nintendo Revolution controller. Has it been tested already? What opinion do you have of it? Do you have some ideas for future games?

Hideo Kojima: As the creator, my work is to create original and intuitive games, giving importance to the experience of gameplay. Therefore, innovation is very important. I believe the step has given Nintendo, in order to approach video games to a currently non-casual gamer public, has been huge. I have a couple of ideas to the ones that go through my head when I'm able, but of course, I cannot say anything. You will have news very soon.

Yay... ^_^

(Source)

[odifiend]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Wasn't MGS a remake of a game from the Playstation 1, released around the time a new installment was being made for the PS2?
That was a bad idea from the start.

Also, stop whining, Nemo.

MGS:TTS was released in March 11, 2004 and MGS3 October 15, 2004.  In video game time that is a while.  But still nemo, it wasn't nintendo's fault that MGS wasn't advertised as Konami was publishing it.  Also, I remember seeing ads for ED on tv and this was back when NOA's marketing department was more abyssmal than they are now.
And what is it they say, hindsight is always 20/20?  Nintendo didn't exactly know things like Capcom's 5 would fall through.  But whatever...
As for what Kojima's comments - cool.  Even though he is an incredibly arrogant prick, I really like his games.  Isn't he also responsible for Botkai?  It'll be interesting to see what he might come up with.

[pudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
MeriStation: We saw statements (from [Nintendo President] Satoru Iwata's video conference) about the Nintendo Revolution controller. Has it been tested already? What opinion do you have of it? Do you have some ideas for future games?

Hideo Kojima: As the creator, my work is to create original and intuitive games, giving importance to the experience of gameplay. Therefore, innovation is very important. I believe the step has given Nintendo, in order to approach video games to a currently non-casual gamer public, has been huge. I have a couple of ideas to the ones that go through my head when I'm able, but of course, I cannot say anything. You will have news very soon.

Yay... ^_^

(Source)

Kojima praising Nintendo and wanting to make games for Revolution could lead to some excellent games and has the potential to really help Nintendo's image.  What really gets me thinking is him saying that we'll hear more news very soon.  I wonder if this is just him saying more about his projects because he wants to or if it is Nintendo finally letting him say more because they are stopping devs from talking about and showing projects?  I think it could prove wise for Nintendo to both allow developers to reveal more about their games (if they are indeed stopping them) and for Nintendo to reveal some more Rev. specs right around the 360 launch.

Oh and another tidbit for this topic:

Quote
At an Atari press conference last week, a big wig at Atari confirms their support for the Revolution. While no specific games were announced, it’s still great to have one more developer hop on board. Revolution support seems to be coming along very, very nicely.

From www.gonintendo.com

[Shecky]

Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
<A bunch of different stuff>

Wow, that's one of the most well thought out posts I've seen in a while.

I agree with all of it.

[ShyGuy]

I remember there was a television ad for MGS:TTS It was the one were the kid in the psychiatrist's office was pretending he was all these different game characters.

And for what it's worth, Metal Gear Substance on the Xbox did about the same sales wise as Twin Snakes did.

[Berto2K]

Yes, there were adverts for MGS: TS and ED.  The prob with ED's adverts was that they were (at least here) only played in the wee hours of the morning during the world cup which isn't a big enough draw of an audience for a video game.  Nintendo did the advertising for MGS: TS.  It is what ShyGuy mentioned above.

[stevey]

"I cannot say anything. You will have news very soon."

I wish they could atleast say the date of the news so we can get hype up for the miyamoton.

[nemo_83]

I never saw a single televised commercial for ED or MGS.  I did however see one ad in EGM for MGS.

If Nintendo did advertise those games it was obviously not enough.  The stuff I watch has so many game commercials some times it is kind of sickening.  

I wasn't complaining; I was only stating the facts.  Nintendo didn't go super slick with the looks of the Revolution for no reason; they learned their lesson the really hard way.


And I will agree it wasn't the smartest move by Nintendo to get their only developer of original mature games to do a remake of a game from the PSX (I already own and many others did too) when a sequel for that game is debuting on another system later in the same year.  I didn't want to bring that up because the game could have at least sold more units then it did even with what was against it already.  

It did however help make GameCube look like the remake machine; not good.

[Dasmos]

Maybe you don't watch enough T.V?

[nemo_83]

I don't usually watch a lot of tv unless its news, but I do watch some programs that have heavy gaming advertising and on those programs I can say I did not see ED or MGS advertised; Nintendo has improved but still MP2 advertising was pathetic compared to Halo 2's cinematic trailer.

[pudu]

Some questions from an interview by Wired-Games with a representative from Blitz Games (makers of the next gen game Possession):

Quote
W-G: Are you excited about the Revolution controller?

ND: As a player… yes, I can see how it will make for some interesting gameplay… as a Designer, I can also see that it will bring some interesting challenges and, perhaps, a few headaches J

W-G: What is your take on the different approaches that the three console makers are taking this next generation?
ND: It seems obvious to me that Nintendo are just not entering the same battle that PS3 and 360 are. Nintendo probably feel that they cover a niche that makes their brand of gaming unique and will solely concentrate on that. 360’s tactic seems to be arriving on the battlefield first… at tactic that may well work. They do have some attractive content.

But then Sony is an incomparable marketer who knows how to generate a buzz about the hardware and deliver some very cool first party titles. So… who is going to be the victor? Hard to say… but it will be a messy fight, which ultimately should provide the gamers with a good degree of choice of game. No bad thing for them J

W-G: From what I can tell, the basis of Possession seems a little bit like Nintendo/n-Space's current gen game, Geist.  What differs the two?

ND: On the surface it may appear so. But you’ll soon notice that the two are very different. Geist allows you to possess items that specifically relate to a linear mechanics or puzzles, generally quite limited in scope. Outside of that the possession factor is quite limiting. In “Possession” you can possess any single zombie in your army at any time and take advantage of their unique abilities. This may include firing weapons that they are carrying (the Shamblers) to wall climbing (the Shredders) and just plain and simply pummelling everything into dust (the Monster).

For us, the possession mechanic that opens up a huge amount of fun and emergent gameplay mechanics. Plus you get to BE the zombie… and that’s got to be cool.

W-G: Out of the three next-gen games, which do you like the best?

ND: If you mean games then I am most excited by Morrowind IV. I have always enjoyed the freedom that the Morrowind games offer the player. If you are referring to the consoles… I don’t have a favourite. As a designer I have always felt the need to own each console… and do just that. It just doesn’t pay to limit myself and therefore prevent myself from being able to play and explore any game produced.

Make sure to click the link to see the full interview if you're interested.  It's too bad he sounds a bit weary of the Revolution because he thinks it's controller might be hard to program for.  I hope most devs see it as a worth while challenge rather then an annoyance.  Another worthy point is that he, like some other developers I'm sure, is still unsure of whether or not there will be a Revolution port because they are making the game to the standars of Xbox 360 and PS3 and aren't sure if the Revolution can handle it.  This is a likely answer to why RE5 isn't being worked on for Rev (as far as we know) right now.  Man...Nintendo better not make the console so underpowered that it starts losing a lot of possible ports (especially for good games like RE5).

[Dasmos]

Quote
Originally posted by: pudu
(especially for good games like RE5).

You've played it? Awesome.

[Hostile Creation]

It's apparently easy to program for.  He just doesn't want to put forth the creative effort, sounds like.

Possession sounds retarded.  An army of zombies?  That only works with Bruce Campbell, man, and when you're fighting the army.  That's what zombies are there for.  Fighting AGAINST.

[Renny]

The so-called 'possession' in that game just sounds like character-switching. Wowz.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I concur x2

[zakkiel]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
It's apparently easy to program for.  He just doesn't want to put forth the creative effort, sounds like.

Possession sounds retarded.  An army of zombies?  That only works with Bruce Campbell, man, and when you're fighting the army.  That's what zombies are there for.  Fighting AGAINST.

See, I love it when they turn an idea on its head. Someone should make a video game where you are an alien defending your planet against a horde of invading humans. I think it would be more believable than the usual.

[pudu]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos

Quote
Originally posted by: pudu
(especially for good games like RE5).

You've played it? Awesome.

Right after I posted that I knew someone would probably be all over that comment.  Yep, I'm assuming it will be a good game (because of RE4 and other RE games popularity and overal track record) and I thought that assumption could go without saying...and yep by good game I mean in my opinion (as some others may not like it even if I do).  Wasn't sure how careful I had to be.  Anyway, rather then editing my original post please just make "especially for good games like RE5" = "especially for potentially good games like RE5".

As far as the quality of the game Possession I have no clue.  I saw that one of the Q's asked how the game compared to Geist so I thought I'd throw it in there in case someone found it interesting.  The main thing I wanted to bring up, as I said earlier, is that some developers aren't committing to games since they don't know specs yet and that this developer thought the controller might be difficult to use with his game.

[Dasmos]

I also suspect it will be a decent game, although not as good as RE4. But then again I also thought Outbreak was gonna rock the world......

[couchmonkey]

I personally found that there was no advertising for Geist, and quite a bit for Eternal Darkness and MGS: Twin Snakes.  However, the problem here is that my TV viewing patterns are always changing, and marketers are always looking for new audiences to tackle, so maybe Geist had heavy ad rotations on some channel I don't watch, or during a show I don't like.

In the end, none of the three games got a huge advertising blitz or anything.  Nintendo could afford to push some of these games more.

[Hostile Creation]

Thing is, Eternal Darkness and Geist are both pretty niche titles, they're not something that's going to appeal to everyone, even if it is rated mature.  They have plenty of generic mature games on the other systems more likely to attract attention.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"They have plenty of generic mature games on the other systems more likely to attract attention."

And that's the problem with the AMERIKA GEIMU market.

[Kairon]

There was a LOAD of advertising for Conker back with the N64. Didn't help much.

I also remember advertising for Eternal Darkness...but that didn't help much either.

I'm thinking that there's virtually no advertising at all for the Mario Party series... yet that game sells like hotcakes.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ian Sane]

I'm a little late on this but I haven't had internet access since Wednesday night so whatever.

"They wanted to create smaller and simpler games, and we wanted to make deeper and more-epic game experiences."

That's Denis Dyack's reason for leaving Nintendo.  I think it's a good reason if it's true.  It's exactly what I've been worried about ever since this non-gamer stuff started up and if I leave Nintendo it will be for that reason.  But then I'm not the only person worried about that.  So Denis might just be saying that because it's an excuse that a lot of the more disgruntled Nintendo fans would sympathize with.  It makes Ninendo look like that bad guy and it's believable for anyone pissed off that Nintendo lost SK.

I agree that the advertising sucked but then ALL Nintendo Cube advertising sucked so it's not totally a fair arguement.  With the Cube often franchise games did well (ie: those who don't need advertising) and original titles didn't.  I did see ads for Eternal Darkness but they just made the game look like a generic action title and did not give any indication of the horror theme it had.  Realistically it needed a scary commercial.  Twin Snakes was doomed because Konami themselves sabotaged it by announcing MGS3 at the same time.  Nintendo were like total saps in that deal.  What sort of chinless wimp asks for a MGS game and then agrees to merely a remake and then gets their own team, capable of making their own games, to work on it?

Personally I think Nintendo and SK did have a big personal difference that kept them from gelling.  Nintendo wants their console to appeal to the entire market.  To do this they have this INSANE strategy (that has never worked and never will) where every game is designed to be suitable for everybody (but ends up appealing to nobody as a result).  SK clashes huge with this philosophy.  They make mature games that only target part of the market.  They better suit someone like Sony who has made a true "everybody" console by offering a varied library where all sorts of totally different games are available and as a result there's something for everybody.

It's too bad because they totally had the "make great games" philosophy in common.  They should have worked together perfectly if (surprise) Nintendo wasn't a stubborn old fuddy-duddy.