Topic: <b>Zelda Delayed to 2006</b>

[zakkiel]

Which is why I just suggest a graphics update and possibly a small extra quest, akin to the "color dungeon" from the GBC game. No one was angry that you couldn't get the color dungeon on a regular Gameboy, at least not that I heard. It's not like the content mysteriously vanished from the game, and you were eventually going to get the upgraded system anyway. And obviously upping the graphics would have zero potential for outrage, because the GC simply couldn't support them. That would be the point.

I'm hearing that there really is an appreciable segment of the population that has bought/will buy GCs solely for TP. If they get it and love it (as of course they inevitably will) and find out there's some additional content and a better-looking version they can access with a Rev, well... I think that would be a nice incentive, not a source of outrage, especially if the extra content is designed to take advantage of the Rev's special capabilities. No one went through the roof when KoToR had some extra things in the PC version. It's just accepted business practice.

I'm a bit pissed about this "Nintendo always breaks their promises" and "they're keeping it because they can't finish the content they promised on time" crap. The first sentiment is really six-year-old whining. In real life, sometimes a company can't keep its promises and that's that. Reality intrudes. Consider Peter Molyneaux, Blizzard, and Valve, for example. Heck, we should be grateful that at least Nintendo was more honest than Valve about its delays. No waiting until a month before scheduled release and then blaming the fourteen-month delay on hackers. And on the second part: if Nintendo has promised us a certain number of dungeons, or quality of AI, or NPCs, I'd love to see it. They could just make cuts to the material they originally planned like they did with WW and fill in the fetch quests. I'm glad they went the other route on this one.

[Nile Boogie]

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Originally posted by: IceCold
You undoubtedly did go too far, BlackNMild. If all of that is unlocked by playing with the Rev, it would make Gamer 1 even more bitter. The people who buy Zelda, there will be many of them that won't be buying a Rev for a while/at all. Then, potentially millions of customers will be unsatisfied because they can't get the whole experience without buying a new $300 console.

As I said before, if the game can be played better with the new controller in any way, that is fine by me. It's OK if Zelda uses the new features of the controller to its benefit. And graphical enhancements, maybe... But all of these unlockable features would lead Gamer 1 to feel cheated.

"You can please some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't make a Nintendo fan happy."

If "anyone" plays a game that is on par with The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina Of Time and still feels cheated because their experience is lacking due to bonus features of a machine that they don't own the I say F*** 'em.

Sonic And Knuckles Lock On Technology as a reference.

"Right on Zakkiel."

 

[PaLaDiN]

"If "anyone" plays a game that is on par with The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina Of Time and still feels cheated because their experience is lacking due to bonus features of a machine that they don't own the I say F*** 'em."

So, you're saying F*** 'em to pretty much everybody who didn't buy 4 swords.

[Ian Sane]

"But we feel a commitment to the GameCube owners who've been patiently awaiting this new Zelda title, and don't want to force them to wait and buy a brand new system in order to play the game."

Damn straight.  Most of what Kaplin has been saying regarding this is a bunch of spin doctored junk that just makes me more upset.  But this is a serious concern of mine and I'm glad they consider that important.  Though this might not mean anything.  NOA's statements don't mean much when NCL just does whatever they want willy-nillyl without any regard for the American market.

IceCold is right, adding significant exclusive Rev content would just piss off Cube owners.  It goes against the whole design of consoles.  The reason consoles are so popular is because unlike PCs you buy the hardware and every game works and plays the same on every machine.  Putting extra content on the Rev is no different then making someone buy a new graphics card to play the latest PC game.  No, I bought a Cube and every game that says "Gamecube" on the side is going to play on it with all features intact.  Realistically this is why connectivity bombed.  Suddenly you had to buy another system to get full usage out of your game.

And GBC games are different.  Those are not forward compatible Gameboy games.  They are backwards compatible Gameboy Color games.  They say GBC on the box.  Plus no one with a brain bought a Gameboy for Link's Awakening DX.  That was a GBC game that launched with the GBC.  Zelda will likely launch before the Rev is released.  So you buy the game now and then find out a few months later that you should have waited for the Rev.  I just think it would blow up in their face.  Some people have bought a Cube just for this game.  To screw them out of the full game would really hurt Nintendo's image.

"Sonic And Knuckles Lock On Technology as a reference."

Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic 3, and Sonic 2 were all for the Genesis.  No additional several hundred dollar investment needed.

[GoldenPhoenix]

To comment on something, wasn't OOT in development for close to 4 years? I seem to remember pictures of it before the N64 came out.

[King of Twitch]

It would be like if last year George Lucas pushed Revenge of the Sith from May to Christmas. Of course there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But it's Aonuma's ship now, his command. He's in charge, the boss, the head man, top dog, big cheese, head honcho, number one  

[GoldenPhoenix]

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well I just found out that Zelda OOT had a 3 year development cycle, I got the information from this link http://www.g4tv.com/icons/features/47808/Icons_Interview_Eiji_Aonuma_on_Zelda.html

[Nephilim]

I dont see how bonuses would piss cube owners off
Its like buying Zelda:WW and being pissed off cause you can play the test stages that you need a Action reply to play (which are quite fun)
Most of the unlockacle stuff one WW was pretty crappy anyway, esp seeing enemys health

[Don'tHate742]

You guys are way too paranoid.

If TP were to have unlockables on the REV, it wouldn't be anything significant. It would be more of a bonus that teases the next Zelda than a grand part in the adventure.

What I mean is: you beat TP on the GC, then 6 months after the REV comes out, you find yourself in an inevitable drought of games. Hey look....Zelda....that game was fun....then you pop it in. To your surprise it has a new mechanic (due to the REV's special feature) which makes the game interesting again while at the same time psyching (sp?) yourself up for the upcoming Zelda and it's possible gameplay.

Even so, I still think this announcement is exactly what it reads....a delay to polish the game....nothing more, nothing less.

[wandering]

I agree with Don'tHate on this one. I don't think people will get upset over small REV-only unlockables (I didn't care about the island on Animal Crossing, or the unlockable games in Metroid Prime).

On a completley unrelated note:

   

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Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
   

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Originally posted by: Nile Boogie
   GameCube SP?

That would have been a smart move...two years ago. It's too late now.

Personally. I think an sp cube could sell big time this Christmas, ESPECIALLY if they sneakily tied it in with Zelda. After all, if PSOne and GameBoy Micro taught/will teach anything, it's that its never too late to revamp old hardware.

[stevey]

You acting as if this delay is just for poilsh. The game is not done they add new level witch show that it's not done so it would have never be done in time for 05.

[zakkiel]

"IceCold is right, adding significant exclusive Rev content would just piss off Cube owners. It goes against the whole design of consoles. The reason consoles are so popular is because unlike PCs you buy the hardware and every game works and plays the same on every machine. Putting extra content on the Rev is no different then making someone buy a new graphics card to play the latest PC game."

Now that is just a big, steaming pile of crap.

It takes someone with a truly superhuman victim complex to complain that the game looks better on the Rev when it's impossible to make it look that good on the GC. This is so preposterous I really don't know what to say, except that Nintendo should be catering to the non-neurotic people who don't obsess about the extra blades of grass they can't see because they haven't gotten the new system yet. For those so hagridden that the sheer possibility that someone out there might possibly be playing a better version of the game that they won't buy it, I say screw 'em. They dealt themselves out of an awesome game for phenomonally childish reasons that make no sort of moral sense. Much like being upset that Nintendo released a better version of its hardware. It's not like the existance of a better version somehow diminished your version, at least for sane people. You still got exactly what you payed for.

[Hostile Creation]

Jesus christ you people talk up a storm.  I wasn't logged in yesterday when I first saw this and now there are already 9 pages

First off, let me say right off the bat that I don't really mind.  I'm already stretching my money thin with the excess of games I want to buy, so more time (not to mention having something to play next spring, something awesome) doesn't bother me at all.  The delay means the game will be even better.  I'm not rushed about getting it or anything, so this is only good for me.
And it won't kill Nintendo's Christmas.  It's actually a reasonable decision.  This way, they can focus on and market games that would not have gotten so much attention, particularly handhelds, and try to pull their highest profit from that.  Come April (or whenever), people will buy Zelda.  Everyone will buy Zelda no matter what time it's released: I mean, it's Zelda.  Instead of having everyone spend their Christmas money on a game they'd buy later anyway, they'll get them to spend it on other games that might not have sold under the wings of Zelda.

[Ian Sane]

"This way, they can focus on and market games that would not have gotten so much attention, particularly handhelds, and try to pull their highest profit from that."

Nintendo has used this arguement as well and I think it makes no sense.  This is about the Gamecube, not the DS or GBA.  Someone who owns a Cube should not be expected to buy a DS to get a decent game selection for Christmas.  The portable and console markets are different.  Nintendo of all companies should know that.  So you can't say "well there's lots of DS games" because the DS isn't the Cube.  It's a different system with a different userbase.  There's some overlap but you can't rely on the DS to fill gaps in the Cube lineup.

Some people said that because the GBA userbase dwarfed the Cube userbase that connectivity would take off because it would be so easy to find GBA owners to play with.  But it bombed hard and that's because Nintendo was relying on the Cube userbase and the GBA userbase to the be the same people and they weren't.  Nintendo has to assume that Cube owners only have a Gamecube to play with at Christmas.

[Nile Boogie]

The thing is Nintendo doesn't segregate their fans. To them a GameCube owner might as well own a DS and GBA, and this is precisely why this delay sucks as much as it does. Although I do own A DS and a Cube it should not be assumed or implied that the lack of software on one can be made up by games on the other. Sure you can pacify a infant with a nookie for a second but if a baby is hungry, they're going to want milk.  Same on Nintendo for being such a bad parent.
Basically what I.S said is what I feel as well, basically

[Hostile Creation]

Well, we have Fire Emblem and Pokemon coming out at a reasonable time for the holidays, not to mention other games I may not be aware of.  I think they should be releasing Mario Party 7 and Battalion Wars, if they could, but Zelda seems like a waste for the holidays, especially if it needs improvements, when everyone is going to buy it anyway.
Also, they don't need the Gamecube games to sell too well if the handheld games are selling.  All the profits go to the same place, and people aren't going to throw away their Gamecubes because Zelda is a few months late.

[TwoHundred4Ever]

Okay kids . . . the bottom line is that Nintendo had to do this.  We all know they certainly didn't want to (their holiday season sales will suck and their fiscal year profit forecasts are never going to be met), but I'm sure they discussed it and decided that it had to be done.  Now, this means there's nothing on the Cube to counter the X360 launch.  Quite frankly I don't think that Zelda would have made a significant difference anyway.  People who have the cash and desire to get X360 this year were going to get it regardless of one Zelda title (albeit a very bitchin Zelda title).

At this point, it would be foolish and time consuming to port TP to the Rev . . . it will come out on the Cube even if the Cube is all but dead.  This opens up the possibility of TP being released to counter the PS3 launch, which would probably be a smarter choice anyway (Nintendo has said on many occassions that they consider Sony to be their main rival, and the release of the PSP only strenghtned that feeling).

Now, assuming TP and Rev are released around the same time, the backwards compatibility of the Rev could still be used to sell both the hardware and software in huge numbers.  The Zelda Oracle games proved this.  The Oracle games were for the GBC, and were delayed until basically the GBA launch.  Everyone thought that they should have been switched to the GBA because no one figured that they would sell when they were outdated like that.  Surprisingly, the games sold pretty well because a lot of people (myself included) bought a GBA and an "outdated" Zelda Oracle game to play on it.  Nintendo could certainly try this kind of strategy with the Rev and TP, and use it to advertise and highlight the system's backwards compatibility.

So overall, this is certainly not a good situation for Nintendo to be in, but if they plan the next year or so properly, it could still work out very well.  Oh, and in terms of keeping Nintendo fans happy over this holiday season, I think packaging Zelda TP demos with hit Cube games is a great, easily accomplished, and cost-effective idea.  Oh, and Nintendo needs to release some major Rev info before the end of the year if they want to keep up exctiement and convince anyone to pass on X360 and PS3 . . . especially since it looks like Rev (despite those constant Nintendo claims from a couple years back) will debut significantly after even the PS3.

[stevey]

(their holiday season sales will suck and their fiscal year profit forecasts are never going to be met),

It just one game they have other games on the ds and other kill apps like mario soccer and nintendogs this is not the end.

[hudsonhawk]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
At the end of every generation, there are people who want the old system's final set of games to be moved up to the new system.  It's a bad idea, and history has proven that.

Star Fox Adventures - over two years of extra development time, critical thrashing, mediocre sales
Eternal Darkness - over two years of extra development time, pitiful sales

If you want to know how much work is involved in moving a game up to a new system several times more powerful, look at the ordeal of porting Conker to Xbox with nicer graphics.  It took Rare about three years.  Granted, Rare is slow as hell, but you can still tell that it was no simple matter.  I bring up Conker because many people thought it should have been moved from N64 to GameCube.  And in the end, it's going to sell about as many copies on Xbox as it did on N64, which is to say, not that many.

Wow, you say a lot of ridiculous and incorrect things, so I tend to pass on them, but not only did you say this, you were so proud of your observation that you said it again in the mailbag.

First off, at the end of every generation, each software house figures out what to port to the new system and what gets left behind.  Do you really think that every company just says, "Okay, it's a new generation - time to reformat the hard drives and start over completely from scratch!"

You give three examples there, only one of which (ED) is even remotely applicable.  If you think Conker was just a port, you obviously haven't played the Xbox version.

First off, as Nintendo has stated, the Revolution uses the same APIs as the Gamecube.  That means it's easy to ramp up your development of GC titles to the Revolution.

This isn't an example of, as with Conker and Starfox Adventures, a title getting completely reworked either with completely different characters and new action sequences (SFA) or getting moved to completely alien platform, getting rebalanced, and adding immense new online component (C:L&U).

I'm not saying it's a good idea to move it to the Revolution, I'm just saying your reasoning is asinine.

[vudu]

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Okay kids . . . the bottom line is that Nintendo had to do this. We all know they certainly didn't want to (their holiday season sales will suck and their fiscal year profit forecasts are never going to be met), but I'm sure they discussed it and decided that it had to be done.

Look on the bright side...next year, when new consoles are launched Nintendo is the only company with a chance to be in the black.  Everyone else is going to lose so much money launching hardware that they likely won't be able to make it up with software sales.

[ruby_onix]

I'm playing Wind Waker, so right now I personally couldn't care if Twilight Princess ever comes out. I'm quite content. Although I'm certain that'll change once I'm done. Actually, I'm glad TP got delayed, because now I can't get distracted away from Wind Waker by it.


Overall, I think this is going to be a great thing. I'm not a fan of "keep the game in limbo because you can always make it better", but Zelda games have been having a diminished impact lately, so trading some quantity for quality seems like a very good idea right about now. Zelda needs to be awesome.

Twilight Princess launching in line with the Revolution launch? Okay, that's just brilliant. Sure, Nintendo needs to take care of their GameCube owners, but I don't think this dealy is going to kill anyone who wasn't dead already. TP might've moved some GameCubes, or gotten some people to dust them off/dig them out of their closets, but it can still do that after a delay. And moving Revolutions is a much better idea than lost-cause GameCubes.

Combat the Xbox360? Meh. I think the best way to do that is to focus on doing the Revolution right, not by getting into a fight. Remember what happened when Nintendo put Metroid Prime 2 up against Halo 2? I don't think Nintendo should retreat, but they should definitely pick their battles.

TP is going to be like Link's Awakening DX on the GB/GBC. Or the Oracle games on the GBC/GBA. Right in the transition phase. It's an exciting place to be.

The Oracle games had some GBA extras, like the Advance Store and some extra rings. Someone mentioned stuff like bonus costumes and weapons for plaing TP on the Rev? That's a great idea. Provided that the version on the GameCube has a healthly amount of those in the first place. You shouldn't leave a group of people "wanting more" from a game. Fortunately, "giving people what they want in abundance" sounds as if that's TP's entire philosophy. I just hope Nintendo can pull it off, because that's not usually Nintendo's philosophy.

Link's Awakening DX had color on the GBC. So now the question is... what is the Revolution? Does the Revolution have something so awesome that it will make current-generation console games look as out-of-date as if they were black and white? And because of the delay, Twilight Princess will be programmed to be able to take full advantage of it?


I'm officially hyped for the Revolution.

[Mario]

If I can't get everything possible out of my Twilight Princess disc without owning a Revolution, i'm never going to buy another Nintendo product ever. Which is cool because they wouldn't do that.

It's a ridiculous idea, drop it.

[KnowsNothing]

OH SH

[zakkiel]

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If I can't get everything possible out of my Twilight Princess disc without owning a Revolution, i'm never going to buy another Nintendo product ever.

Your loss. But do please grow up. You're standing on a principle that doesn't even exist, and it makes you look like a moron.