Topic: Update on my problem with the DS screens!

[Gamebasher]

As promised, I am back with the latest info about the tough problem I experienced playing on the otherwise excellent new dual screen handheld from Nintendo (the one that saved them this quarter!).

My optician told me that the problem comes from the fact that when the eyes are asked to focus- and concentrate on 3D graphics on a screen, it causes a lot of strain on the part of the inner eye lens, and this can sooner or later cause the exact problem which I experienced after playing on NDs for 3 hours: eye pains, hallucinatory type patterns, balancing trouble etc.

That is also why Nintendo and others recommend taking frequent breaks when playing a long time.

The problem only gets worse once we grow older, because the older we are the less efficient the eyes are at focus and concentration. Take as small a screen as on the NDs and the problem gets even worse.

Her conclusion was that I am to abstain totally from playing on any handheld ever again, since my eyes can´t cope with the intense graphics on such a small screen!

So it wasn´t an epileptic seizure, but instead a direct result of prolonged eyestrain.

So there you have it!  

[darknight06]

How old are you?  I'm curious because I'm 25 and I never had a problem even remotely like that on a handheld.

[MarioAllStar]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gamebasher
Her conclusion was that I am to abstain totally from playing on any handheld ever again, since my eyes can´t cope with the intense graphics on such a small screen!

Are you going to actually listen? That sure would be tough.

[Ian Sane]

Too bad that the DS doesn't lend itself to a DS player as well as the GBA did.  Because of the touchscreen the Rev would either need a mouse or the DS itself would have to be used as a controller.  Personally I think the mouse would work best since otherwise you would be playing blind without any image on the DS screen and no cursor on the TV.

[darknight06]

For certain games, even a mouse wouldn't have the same type of impact.  Especially with a game like Kirby, I just can't imagine that with a mouse while still having the same type of feel to it.  

[Strell]

Not play...rest of your....

SECOND OPINION PLEASE

[stevey]

"I am to abstain totally from playing on any handheld ever again"

BULL SH!T learn how not to focus your eyes and you be fine.

[Obiyo]

playing a handheld without focusing..  Have you actually tried that?  Actually accomplishing anything in the game would be extremely difficult.  

[Mario]

Just don't play crappy 3D games.

[Michael8983]

Does it only happen with 3D graphics because about 90% of DS games are 2D.  

[Gamebasher]

I am 39!

Some years ago, I didn´t have any problem at all playing on the GBA SP, but ultimately got rid of it because I couldn´t stand the way it has to be held in order to play - it is made for small kids hands, not grown up adults. So of course I was happy when the DS was announced, since I could see it was very different in the way that it had a wider cabinet enabling me to hold it more comfortable than the uber-narrow GBA SP (I had to kept my elbows inwards, in order to be able to hold it properly, and that was just too much for me in the long run).

I never played any 2D game on DS, and am not planning on doing so, since I like 3D only. But now any small screen gives me trouble, so I guess it wouldn´t make a difference anyway.

The Optician said that it is not even good for children to sit and play GBA as they must strain their eyes unhealthily in order to stay focused on the games it runs. She said they should be out playing with other kids, rather than playing on a handheld "all the time".

Now, of course there is nothing wrong with the games that run on GBA. But if it is really harmfull to the eyes playing on such a small screen, Nintendo should come up with a revolutionary type of new screen which can be taken anywhere, while doing anything: one which would be placed in front of the eyes like any pair of sunglasses, generating a "false" 3D image! When I suggested this, the optician indeed liked the idea, remarking that this would be far better on the eyes, as that would have them focus on something further away!

I really htink this should be considered by Nintendo for a future GameBoy system.

I don´t think parents will like to buy handheld systems anymore, if it proves true and emerge publicly that they are so bad on the eyes!
 

[MrMojoRising]

Quote
Originally posted by: Gamebasher

1  I never played any 2D game on DS, and am not planning on doing so, since I like 3D only. But now any small screen gives me trouble, so I guess it wouldn´t make a difference anyway.

2  I really htink this should be considered by Nintendo for a future GameBoy system.

3  I don´t think parents will like to buy handheld systems anymore, if it proves true and emerge publicly that they are so bad on the eyes!

1. If you like 3D games only then why did you play a GBA?  And how can you not like ANY 2D games? and why would you buy a DS if you only like 3D games?

2. The virtual boy!

3.  Clearly a majority of people are not plauged by the same problem as yourself, so I think as long as kids don't have similar problems to yourself then parents wont worry at all.
 

[IceCold]

"I never played any 2D game on DS, and am not planning on doing so, since I like 3D only. "

So you don't like the NES? Or SNES? Or some of the best games ever, like SMB, Super Metroid, LttP etc? Or ANY Gameboy game?

And you consider yourself a Nintendo fan? For shame...

EDIT: Curse you Mojo Jojo!  

[stevey]

but can't you just take some pill or some sort of gaming glass like reading glass or a laser.

[Gamebasher]

MrMojoRising,

After adding the extra 3. dimension, I find 2D completely outdated (hate to say it, guys, but that´s how I feel about it) and because I happen to like 3D only, it doesn´t mean I am not a Nintendo Fan anymore, IceCold!! I am a big Nintendo Fan asI consider Nintendo the ONLY games company left who can create that special atmosphere and joy in games. Microsoft has tried, but they failed in my eyes.

Concerning the GBA, I found the 2D games (which is mostly what you find there, save for a number of "3D" games that I played and dropped on the floor very quickly) on it too infuriating in the difficulty, and too limited in the way that I could not TOUCH that gaming world at all. I COULD in 3D! I moved into that world, walked where I wanted, not being confined to a 2D plane anymore. Some of you may long back to that era, because of certain feelings, emotions, atmosphere you experienced playing the games created in those days. Which is fair enough, I just don?t feel like that at all.  

So to me Super Mario 64 was that fantastic moment of relief, as I had tired of the 16 Bit era´s 2D games and the subsequent wanna-be types of 3D games available on Saturn and PSX where the graphics weren´t much to talk about for lack of processor power (Too much pixelation, lack of fluidity in textures, characters made it look horrible and only towards the end of these consoles cycles were things brightening up).

2D games were much prettier in that department, and SM64 copied that in 3D which is probably one of the reasons to why it received so much praise.

But the thing is that when I played them (2D), I ALWAYS and without exception, dreamt of what that world would be ike to play in if it had been possible to go INTO in the picture, in other words 3D! So when it came along with SM64, 2D was nothing to me and I only grabbed the GBA out of curiosity to see the semi-3D Mario Kart that launched with it and hoping I would find more of such well crafted games from other developers. But I didn?t find many, and relatively qucikly lost interest in it alltogether. So when the NDS was announced, I was very happy...for a time. For as you now know, I couldn?t play on those screens anymore. Sad, but a fact which I will have to live with.

To long for the 2D games era, is understandable to me but not desirable at all. That is all nostalgia to me, and if there is anything in the world I don?t like at all, it?s that: nostalgia. To me nostalgia is all about longing back to something which IS no more and which wont BE anymore!! Most games out on platforms today are 3D! So why should I focus on that? See, so I don?t! I owned ALL of the consoles that ever came out, except the NES, and each time the next machine from the same gamecompanies came out, I sold the prior models in order to get money to buy the new model. I like to move on, all the time. I never look back, except if for the purpose of reference in some context.

To me it?s all about the standard moving up! And about not going back down to the former level! About moving on, and going ever higher in terms of game immersement and ease of 3D control. That where it?s going, and Nintendo know it, and you (should-) know it!


As regards all those people you mentioned  

[Dasmos]

You truly are the gamebasher....

[darknight06]

"After adding the extra 3. dimension, I find 2D completely outdated"

OK, I've always found some of your posts a bit on the questionable side, but this one goes a little bit too far.  OK, So you're trying to tell me that the Street Fighter 3 series as far as graphics are concerned is outdated despite animating better than 80% of the games out there be it 2D or 3D?  Does this go for Guilty Gear as well?
2D is not outdated and is every bit a technique for gameplay expression as 3D is.  Are you gonna sit there and try to tell that Viewtiful Joe would've worked better if the game was true 3D despite having a 2D comic book style?  And I know you're not gonna try and tell me that Sonic's gotten better since going 3D.  The GBA games have been killing the console ones as of late and the Genesis ones still rule over all.  Now none of that is to say that 3D is bad, because like 2D, it's got its uses.  Could you imagine Nintendogs with 2D sprite based dogs?  I can't and don't want to imagine it either.  

I got a question for you.  If some unknown smaller developer made a new critically acclaimed 2D SNES game with great graphics and a totally immersive world to play on the Revolution, would you honestly, with a straight face bypass it just because it's 2D?  I'm just curious...

[vudu]

Do you find black and white movies completely out dated since color ones came out?  Do you refuse to watch movies like Citizen Kane and Schindler's List because they're in black and white?

2D is an artform.  Not a limitation.

[Gamebasher]

Darknight06, you replied:

"OK, I've always found some of your posts a bit on the questionable side, but this one goes a little bit too far. OK, So you're trying to tell me that the Street Fighter 3 series as far as graphics are concerned is outdated despite animating better than 80% of the games out there be it 2D or 3D? Does this go for Guilty Gear as well?
2D is not outdated and is every bit a technique for gameplay expression as 3D is. Are you gonna sit there and try to tell that Viewtiful Joe would've worked better if the game was true 3D despite having a 2D comic book style? And I know you're not gonna try and tell me that Sonic's gotten better since going 3D. The GBA games have been killing the console ones as of late and the Genesis ones still rule over all. Now none of that is to say that 3D is bad, because like 2D, it's got its uses. Could you imagine Nintendogs with 2D sprite based dogs? I can't and don't want to imagine it either.

I got a question for you. If some unknown smaller developer made a new critically acclaimed 2D SNES game with great graphics and a totally immersive world to play on the Revolution, would you honestly, with a straight face bypass it just because it's 2D? I'm just curious... "

My reply to you:

No offense, Darknight06, but I DO NOT think that that Fighter-series is animating better than 80% of 2D and 3D games out there! All I remember is that I noticed that way the characters move is inferior to ANYTHING seen in DOA or TEKKEN or SOUL CALIBUR!!! Guilty Gear I never played, and never will play if it´s 2D. If you had bothered to read my personal reason for my boredom with 2D, you would have understood that I want to be able to go DEEP into the picture and explore like can never be done on a 2D plane game! I mentioned NOTHING bad about graphics in 2D games, I actually wrote that I think them very pretty and that only with SM64 were we able to get a 3D game with similarly powerfull sprites and textures as seen in 2D games.

Viewtifull Joe doesn´t interest me, because it´s to limited in the 2D plane and then it´s cellshaded which I simply can´t stand (dropped WW very quickly after I bought it). SONIC DID get better with 3D, even though the camera was very annoying.

You are right that 2D and 3D have their respective uses, but I don´t like 2D and still think it outdated nomatter how many times you try to convince me. I guess I just played too many of the Genesis and SNES games to even bother anymore. GBA is the same as those and that´s why I don´t bother about it either.

Did the GBA games kill the consolegames of late? Can you show me some salescharts, please? I would indeed like to see that! If I recall it correctly, Halo sold over 5 million copies already, Metroid Prime over 1 million and  Grand Theft Auto sold in the many millions too. I just don´t recall seeing any GBA games reaching that level in sales!

The answer to your last question is: A resounding YES! Sorry, but I don´t like 2D at all. But that´s just me. To cut it out for you in another way, so yoy perhaps better understand why I will NEVER like 2D:

Great gameplay for me is composed of three factors:

1) I have to LIKE the world I am playing in
2) I have to LIKE the way I interact with the gameworld, i.e. what I have to do - the quest
3) I have to BE ABLE to complete it, so it should not be so difficult I will explode in rage before I get to the end, because then it´s not entertainment anymore.

2D does not fullfill these criteria, and therefore remains uninteresting to me.

I DON´T LIKE A 2D PLANE AS A PLAYING FIELD, BECAUSE I WANT TO GO DEEP INTO ANY WORLD I AM PLAYING IN IF I AM TO HAVE ANY FUN OUT OF IT
I DON´T LIKE THE WAY I HAVE TO INTERACT WITH THE 2D WORLD, IT´S TOO LIMITED (LIKE BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH ON A PIECE OF PAPER WANTING TO JUMP OUT OF IT, BUT CANNOT)
I ALMOST ALWAYS NEVER FIND MYSELF ABLE TO COMPLETE A 2D GAME, BECAUSE OF BOTH THE AFOREMENTIONED TWO FACTORS AND BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO DIFFICULT: TRIPLE JEOPARDY!!

Vudu, you wrote:

"Do you find black and white movies completely out dated since color ones came out? Do you refuse to watch movies like Citizen Kane and Schindler's List because they're in black and white?

2D is an artform. Not a limitation."

My answer: YES, I can´t stand Black and White movies! I NEED colours, lots of colours! Don´t you?

2D is indeed an artform, and diferent people like different artforms. But, no offense intended, I really don´t think that 2D will survive for long in the future. Afterall, the next step we are going to get in now is Virtual 3D in games and movies, so when you can thus immerse yourself totally in the gameworld or filmworld, who the heck will then find 2D cool anymore?


 

 
 

[stevey]

but what about zelda lttp 2.5d or paper mario 2½d?

[nickmitch]

I'd imagine him not liking LoZ:FS or LttP but Paper Mario IS in 3D although the characters are in 2D.

[Artimus]

LMAO @ this convo.

[Dasmos]

There's something that really annoys me about you Gamebasher

It's the fact that you use ` instead of ' as your apostrophe. So intead of writing I'm you write I`m......Is using ' another one of your "hates"

[IceCold]

"because it´s to limited in the 2D plane and then it´s cellshaded which I simply can´t stand (dropped WW very quickly after I bought it)"

So basically you don't like ANY Zelda apart from OoT, MM and the new one? Wow...

And do you like SSBM?

[KDR_11k]

I don't think he'd like any RPG or any game that doesn't include jumping, for that matter then because it's basically all just like Wolfenstein 3d, it's presented in 3d but the movement is restricted to 2 dimensions.