Author Topic: Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube  (Read 8033 times)

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Offline Mad Xenomorph

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« on: February 17, 2003, 05:23:53 AM »
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find any information in the archives.

I ma interested in creating a few programs for my Gamecube (writing on those little 150MB CD-Rs), but I haven't a clue as to where to start.

Is there a Nintendo developers kit available (without spending untold thousands of dollars for such a kit)?
Has anyone (fans/players) created any programs for the Gamecube?
What about alternate controlers? I mean, it would not surprise me to find out that the Gamecube controller ports are similar to the USB ports on a PC.

Here's what I want to create: A keyboard and web browser for the Gamecube (with Broadband adapter). IF the Gamecubes processor uses a semi-standard OS, it should be easy (Heck, the Dreamcast used WIndows CE)

Is there a comercial market for this? I don't care.
WIll this be very usefull? Probally not.

Then,  you may ask, why bother? The answer is simple: Because it is there.

Offline Nintendo

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2003, 05:26:34 AM »
How much would you pay for an official NGC Dev Kit with all software?
"What if everything you see is more than what you see - the person next to you is a warrior and the space that appears empty is a secret door to another world? What if something appears that shouldn't? You either dismiss it, or you accept that there is much more to the world than you think. Perhaps

Offline BlkPaladin

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2003, 05:39:58 AM »
To get a new DK you'll have to go through Nintendo and costs are around $5,000 per kit. They come with the information etc. Also you have to go through Nintendo to even obtain any of the GODs used for the Gamecube. And here the biggest one you have to have a business liscense and submit a detailed game declaration.

Otherwise you are stuck with trying Ebay to find old kits. And are not legal to purchase or sell so you would be on some pretty thin ice. (I'm going to try with my business we are going to work on a demo and them issue it to Nintendo see if we can try to get some Fund Q money.)

And if you want the one that has the RW Hard Drive so you don't have to waste discs which can get a expensive it will be a little more expensive.
Stupidity is lost on my. Then again I'm almost always lost.

Offline Mad Xenomorph

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2003, 05:55:44 AM »
I'll be honest: I am cheap when it comes to paying for software/hardware. Ok... VERY cheap.

I find it difficult to justify more than $100 for most software, especially if I would only be using it for fun. (Noteable exceptions are the software packages that are INCREDIBLY usefull. Photoshop comes to mind)

I know that Nintendo makes most (if not all) of it's money licensing it's systems, but I think that there can be room for a very healthy open-source community.

Charge a little for the programming system, or even have a free version, and only demand money from profits. I severely doubt there would be a lot of serious competition from the open-source community for companies (Let's face it: A word processor is easy to create, so making it free can make sense. A game like Metroid takes time, so of course people would want compensation for that).
Just crack down HARD on companies that try to market games without licensing fees.

Question: (if you know the answer Nintendo): Is Nintendo's licensing system based on a percentage of sales, a flat per-unit fee, or just a plain old flat out fee per game?

Offline BlkPaladin

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2003, 06:02:41 AM »
Its expensive because 1) its a way to make up for the R&D on the system. 2) helps prevent piracy. 3) Makes sure you can somewhat control the content on the system. (And makes sure you liscense the games since they make a lot of money off of it so they can't have people "taking" potential profits out of their coffers.
Stupidity is lost on my. Then again I'm almost always lost.

Offline Grey Ninja

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2003, 07:32:00 AM »
I will tell you a few things wrong with your plan.

1)  GameCube does NOT use Windows CE.  It uses a proprietary OS that you would have to crack in order to get any programming done.  (To this date, nobody has done that).
2)  GameCube cannot read those 150MB CDRs.  It's part of the piracy protection on the GameCube.  You would need a mod chip to do so, and thankfully those do not exist.
3)  If you are coming here to ask about this, then obviously you don't have much experience programming for consoles.  I would advise trying some PS2 programming for the time being.  It's hard as hell, but it should give you some flavor as to how difficult homebrew games/apps are, and how different console development is from PC development.

On the other hand, the GBA is well documented, and freeware devkits are available online.  I have made a few simple games for it, and I have found the experience rewarding and fun.  The system is actually quite nice to develop for.  If you are interested in developing on a console, I suggest you give the GBA a shot.

Forgot to mention, if you want an OFFICIAL devkit, here's the procedures, direct from Nintendo's reply about a request.

Quote

If you are not working with a Nintendo authorized licensee, we will require some information about your company and its previous development experience. Keep in mind that we typically look for companies that are established game developers.

Please email the following application requirements to support@noa.com:

Your company's full legal and incorporated company name (including Ltd., Inc., Co.), address, telephone and fax numbers and a main contact and that person's email address.
A list of published game titles (any platform). Please include your role in each title.
A list of any subcontractors, subsidiaries, branch offices or other related companies that you anticipate will aid in development. Please describe how they will serve to assist in software development.
List any employees under the age of 18 working at your company.
Once we have this information, we can determine if it would be appropriate to send a developer non-disclosure agreement for your review and signature. We will contact you after we have made a decision.
The general terms and conditions of our authorized developer program are:


Developer Qualifications: An authorized developer must have demonstrated the ability to develop and program excellent software for Nintendo video game systems or for other video game or computer systems. In addition, an authorized developer must have a stable business organization with adequate office facilities, equipment, personnel and financial resources in order to insure the security of Nintendo proprietary information and in order to insure an effective environment for working with Nintendo and/or its licensees. Nintendo provides authorized developers with highly proprietary information and many of Nintendo's licensees also rely on recommendations and referrals to authorized developers. For these reasons, Nintendo exercises a very high level of care in approving only a select number of authorized developers.

Confidentiality Agreement; Release of Confidential Information: Upon entering into agreements to hold all proprietary information received from Nintendo as confidential, an authorized developer will receive written software programming specifications for the platform they will be developing for, and the ability to purchase software development tools solely for that company's site. Authorized developers will have access to Nintendo's third party support website to discuss all development issues and receive technical updates. Each employee or independent contractor of an authorized developer who has access to the Nintendo proprietary information will be required to sign a suitable confidentiality agreement with the developer and/or Nintendo.

Game Development: Rights granted to an authorized developer extend only to the use of Nintendo's proprietary information for the development of games on the platform for which they signed the appropriate non-disclosure agreement. Rights do not extend to the right to manufacture, market, promote or otherwise exploit developed games or the Nintendo proprietary information, whether incorporated in hardware, software or accessory formats. An authorized developer may develop a game on a speculation basis or on a contract basis with an authorized Nintendo licensee. Authorized licensees of Nintendo are licensed to develop and market approved games on the system for which they have an existing Nintendo licensing agreement.

Software Development Kits: Approximate development costs range from $10,000 to $20,000. Financial stability is expected approved developers in order to purchase the necessary development equipment for your project

Second Party Publishing with Nintendo: This program is not an offer for Nintendo to publish your game title. It is the responsibility of each developer to secure their own relationship with a third party publisher.


Also here is the overview




SDSG / 3rd Party & Licensee Home / Approval Overview August 12, 2002


Approval Overview
As you can imagine, there are several steps in the process to approve your game for manufacturing. In an effort to help you better understand what to expect at each step, we have created this walkthrough. Here you will find information that will help you plan your submission process, understand your options at each step of the process, and provide you with the correct contact persons for your questions.

The process is listed below in the best possible order. Please keep in mind that some of the steps may run concurrently with others.

Step One: Licensee Authorization
The first step in the procedure is to become an authorized licensee (publisher) or software developer. The procedures are different for each hardware platform and are different for licensee or software developer status, so please contact Sandy Hatcher for more information.

More information available under Licensing > Become a Licensee and Licensing > Become a developer.

Estimated turn-around time: Varies

Sandy Hatcher Software Licensing Manager
sandyha@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2091

Step Two: Software Concept Submission
All authorized licensees (publishers) are required to submit specific information about the projects you currently have in development to our Game Evaluation Group, a.k.a. Mario Club. If you are an authorized software developer, please work with your publisher to get us the information we need. Unlike the past, we no longer require you to submit a detailed concept, just general information that is used primarily for tracking purposes. This information is not shared with other departments other than Licensing, Lot Check, and Mario Club. Please be aware that some of the required information changes depending on the hardware platform.

Click on "Product Evaluation" to find out what information is required for your project.

More information is available under Product Evaluation > Concept Submission.

Estimated turn-around time: 1-3 business days.

Tim Walker Mario Club Supervisor
tim@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2815

Step Three: Mario Club Program
The Mario Club program is an opportunity for you to have some of the most experienced gamers in the industry take a fresh look at your product. Starting with the concept all the way until you reach final code, you have the option of submitting your work and receiving feedback on its quality. This is the same software evaluation team used to improve many of our own products.

The program consists of several options at each stage, so it's up to you which one (or all!) that you wish to take advantage of. Below is a listing and brief description of Mario Club's services. The amount of time that is listed in parenthesis indicates the estimated turn-around time for that particular service.

NOTE: Because we are focusing our efforts on Game Boy Advance and GAMECUBE product quality, all Nintendo 64 and Game Boy Color product evaluations are subject to availability. You will be notified if we can accommodate your request.

Concept Evaluation (2 weeks): The Mario Club is available to review all aspects of your game design document: menu layout, progression system, planned player rewards, replayability, estimated amount of game play, etc. If you wish to do this, please send an electronic copy of a detailed design document including a walk-through of at least two or three levels of the game to Shawn Seavers. In order to save time, resources, and energy, sending an electronic copy of the design document is crucial. Hard-copy concepts are subject to unspecified delays.

Interim ROM Evaluation (IROM)(2 weeks): At various development milestones, you may want Mario Club to comment on the current direction you have taken your project. It most effective when interim ROM images sent for review are at least partially playable-that is, the basic level structure and objectives are in place for a few of the stages, worlds, areas, etc. This is only a guideline, however, and software can be sent at virtually any point of completion. An IROM evaluation is an excellent chance to learn players' reactions to what you have done so far. If you want to capitalize on the IROM Evaluation, please indicate in the required concept submission at which milestones you wish to submit your project.

Final ROM Evaluation (1-2 weeks): This one is more self-explanatory. Once you reach final code, you may submit the project to Mario Club. The major benefit of this is that you will learn the reactions of an experienced gamer of your finished project. This is perfect if you wish to do some final tweaking of your game, without major redesign. Please indicate if you wish to take advantage of this service in the required concept submission information.

1st Impression Testing (1-2 weeks): This is a simple, yet highly effective form of software evaluation that we have been using internally for some time. It has been our experience that the average player decides whether or not they will continue to play within the first couple of hours. We will provide you feedback on the all-important first hours of play, balancing the overall difficulty, along with any other group impressions of the initial experience.

Again, if you wish to take advantage of any of these services, please mark the dates at which you wish to submit your project to Mario Club and which type of evaluation you would like to receive. (Please keep in mind that some of the evaluations can only take place a certain times during the development cycle.) Please contact Shawn Seavers to schedule any Mario Club evaluations.

More information is available under Product Evaluation > Mario Club Program.

Estimated turn-around time: See evaluation descriptions.

Tim Walker Mario Club Supervisor
tim@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2815

Step Four: Lot Check
There are many steps involved in order to pass NOA's Lot Check. You will need ftp access, product codes (a.k.a. game codes), along with other requirements.

For smoother sailing, please contact Terral Dunn when you are ready to submit your file. He will set you up with ftp access. Similarly, contact Derek Whipple as early as possible with the following information in order to obtain your product code:


The complete title
The SKU (platform - NUS, AGB, CGB dedicated or CGB Dual)
The Publisher
The ROM size
Is additional RAM used? And size, if applicable.
Are any accessories used (i.e., Rumble feature), or does the game support multi-player, if so, how many players?
What are the projected markets, choose USA, Japan and/or Europe
Has the game been released previously? That is, does the game have a Game Code in another market?
For help with the rest of Lot Check's procedures, please contact Kirk Buchanan. More information is available under Lot Check.

Estimated turn-around time: 5 to 7 days per submission

Kirk Buchanan Product Testing Supervisor
kirkbu@noa.nintendo.com
voice: 425-861-2819
fax: 425-861-2845

Step Five: Submitting Artwork for Packaging
Artwork is submitted for packaging approval. It is important to note that artwork can be submitted at anytime during the development of the game. In fact, waiting until you have passed Lot Check before submitting artwork could add several unwanted weeks to your final approval for manufacturing. Please contact Tina Painton for more information.

More information available under Licensing > Submit Packaging.

Estimated turn-around time: 5 to 7 days

Tina Painton Licensing Media Specialist
tinapa02@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2667

Sandy Hatcher Software Licensing Manager
sandyha@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2091

Step Six: Ordering Product
Please contact Kris Gustafson for information about placing your order. More information available under Licensing > Order Product.

Estimated turn-around time: Varies

Kris Gustafson Licensing Project Specialist
krisg@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2086

Step Seven: Manufacturing and Shipping
Each hardware platform's manufacuring timelines are unique. Below are the general guidelines that will help you determine an estimated time-frame. Please remember that these timelines are subject to change without notice.

Nintendo GameCube: 8 to 10 days (non-peak); 10 to 12 days (peak)
Game Boy Advance: 40-45 days (non-peak); 45-55 (peak)
Game Boy Color: 40-45 days (non-peak); 45-55 (peak)

If you have any questions about the manufacturing process, contact Kris Gustafson. More information available under Licensing > Order Product.

Kris Gustafson Licensing Project Specialist
krisg@noa.nintendo.com
425-861-2086

Once I had, a little game
I liked to crawl back into my brain
I think you know the game I mean

Offline Uglydot

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2003, 07:41:58 AM »
If you are looking to program small things for a system, the DC has a healthy homebrew community going, plenty of documentation and it is easy to do.  Especially with the ability to make a coders cable or use CD-rs.

Offline BlkPaladin

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2003, 07:45:05 AM »
Yep, that's basically what I got when I asked a few months ago. So basically there is no way you can homebrew some legal games, unless you want to sink in the money.
Stupidity is lost on my. Then again I'm almost always lost.

Offline Mad Xenomorph

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2003, 09:13:41 AM »
Well, that's about what I had thought too.

As for trying to create stuff for the PS2: I wanted to create something for a system I actually HAVE.

Oh well. I am sure that there will be people that will create a development kit for C one day. If it can be hacked, it will be hacked. And since it is a (moderately) open system, it can be hacked.

Offline Koopa Troopa

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2003, 12:21:21 PM »
It doesn't matter. Even if you had the money, Nintendo would not give you a DevKit.


As for GC being hacked, I wouldn't hold my breath, it'll be a while.


I suggest you stick to working with your PC, I don't think you know enough about development to do anything with a console (especially using a bunch of hacked tools on a hacked console.)
"Plan Your Strategy. Build an Army. Trust No One."

Offline Edisim

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2003, 01:17:43 PM »
A gamecube can't read those 150mb cdr's for the same reason it can't read a regular cd (besides the size of the regular cds)--it doesn't have the right laser, so a modchip might not be able to get around that.  I'm not 100% sure about this so correct me if I'm wrong...

Most dvd players that can read cds and dvds have two lasers, one for reading cd's and one for dvds. the size of the pits are different so the size of the lasers need to be different. It's basically the same technology so I was surprised when I found this out, but supposedly that's the way it is. (or was?) When the Sony was developing the PS2, they didn't want two lasers in there (for space or cost, i guess) so they developed a special laser lens thing that could read both cds and dvds. I don't know if most dvd players and drives today use a special hybrid laser like sony's ps2 or if most are still using two different lasers. But since it would be presumably cheaper to go with a standard dvd laser instead of some hybrid type, the gc probably can't read those mini cds.  Maybe if a modchip was super great, it could... but most likely not..

Try chipping or hacking the Q.

Offline shinsnake

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2003, 04:19:23 PM »
What I plan on doing is creating a demo for the PC with the CUBE controller (there is a converter that let's you use the controller as a joystick) and submitting it to Nintendo and then other various companies.  

Offline enigma487

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Programming/Creating content for the Gamecube
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2003, 06:38:02 PM »
it has been years since any dvd players have had 2 lenses.  i've been cleaning them for about 3 years, and have only seen 1.