Topic: Who is Jack Thompson anyway?

[Shift Key]

Just when I'd thought the "blame videogames for violence" debate had gone quiet, CBS decided to interview some people about the issue.. While they did interview some people who actually play games (Tim from Ctrl-Alt-Del and Scott from VGCats) they also talked to Jack Thompson.

According to his website, he's a lawyer from Miami who specialises in videogame-related crimes. He's offering his services to victims of copycat crimes, as well as talking about peddling the bandwagon of "video games are at fault" and predicting Columbine and the Washington sniper attacks. But we all have opinions. Read about his here and Tim's comments are also up

This is from the interview:

Quote
Different mediums, as they've come along, have had their share of controversy. From pulp horror and graphic novels, to movies, music and television; is this part of a cycle?

Yes, it is the last cycle. These are murder simulators. Manhunt has been called the video game equivalent of a snuff film. I am working with an Oakland, CA prosecutor in a murder trial in which the older gang members used GTA 3 to train teens to do carjackings and murders. The Army uses these games to break down the inhibition to kill of new recruits.

Look at the Institute for Creative Technologies created by DOD to create these killing games. Tax dollars paid to the industry to create the games to suppress the inhibition to kill, and then the industry turns around and sells these games to kids. One instance is Pandemic Studio's Full Spectrum Warrior. If it works for soldiers, of course it works for teens. The video game industry has absolutely no rebuttal to that argument. NONE.

Personally, I really think this guy is off his nut. And there are others who agree with me but I've loathed lawyers for as long as I can remember. What about you guys? Does he have a point, or is he just performing incredible leaps to jump to these conclusions?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I don't think this guy HAS a nut.  He's just using this whole mess as an opportunity to accelerate his career.

Zelda hasn't prepared me for unlawfully entering people's homes and destroying their closets & dishware in search of treasure.

[KDR_11k]

He's one of those antisocial nutcases I'd like to see nailed to a wall, Jesus-on-cross style, for everyone to see his sins (hurting society for personal gain). Right next to most politicians.

[Caillan]

I don't believe him, he's a liar. Gamers as a community are not violent and hold a normal aversion to gore.

A few years ago a family member had the tip of his index finger ripped off at his work. It wasn't a clean cut like you'd normally get from a bandsaw; it was caught in rollers and pulled off. When I went down to the hospital and he was still in triage. While I was talking to him, a doctor came in and said he needed to look at the wound. He told me I could just stay in the cubicle instead of walking outside then having to check in again, but he also warned me I might be a bit distressed. I thought I'd stay, figuring from the crap people like Thompson plaster the media with my gaming would've made me immune to the sight of true gore. I also figured that because it was only a finger it wouldn't be too bad. I won't go into much more detail from here, but I'll say two things. First, I was very wrong in my assumptions. Second, the sort of gore shown in videogames is still abstract and extremely undetailed. The gore in a wound on the end of a finger you wouldn't see in a year playing Mortal Komabt 3.

Hemingway wouldn't kill another human until his homeland was taken over by facists. Camus was a pacifist until he witnessed the Nazi occupication of Paris. I have no training in psychology, but I still believe I can raise valid doubts over the potency of games to affect such a significant and fundamental value as non-violence.  

[nickmitch]

I did an english paper on how videogames shouldn't be blamed on such violent acts. I'm still awaiting the grade.
I think we all hate people who blame videogames for violence.  

[KDR_11k]

The main thing with real gore is that you know it's real and actually hurts. Virtual people or characters played by actors don't feel pain because it isn't real but seeing a real, hurting wound will make you think of the pain that person must be feeling. And that is almost like being injured yourself.

Some studies say you're more aggressive after playing violent videogames. I can confirm that to a degree, after playing Counterstrike or Soul Calibur 2 weaponmaster I want to hurt and destroy because of the frustration*. Seeing something fail despite all efforts and no visible errors always makes me aggressive, I feel the same when I'm e.g. hammering a nail into something and after a few hits the nail stops moving. The feeling that it is no longer your fault that it doesn't work, that's frustration and it makes you want to do something you know will work. That the game depicts violence is uninteresting for this purpose, if I was playing some kind of puzzle game that could cause this frustration I'd be just as aggressive.

*= Interesting enough this isn't true for Guilty Gear XX. Perhaps that's because I know there's no way for what I'm trying to succeed.

[09n]

I think we are all biased. We all love video games. Thats why we use this forum. True most of the arguements against video games are nonsence but, we only see the games plus side.

That a side, THIS GUY MUST BE AN IDIOT! GTA teaching children to blow up cars? that makes v. little sence. For one thing it's an 18 and for another guns aren't that easily available. Although games are realistic they almost all have been simplified to the extreme and de-gored an awful lot as Caillan said.

Finally this is a tired arguement. The people who say they are too violent have mainly tired themselves out and game makers have strickter rules and age code thingees (12,15,18,) and this arguement will bubble up again and again and will always fizzle out quickly.

[KDR_11k]

Yep, what Mr. Jackass doesn't realize is that these children he's supposedly thinking of shouldn't be able to get their hands on those games in first place. Perhaps he should have a talk with the parents how come they let their children play these games when they are clearly not meant for children. Noone is blaming porn, alcohol or guns for youth violence although the latter two have obvious links to violence. Why is that? Because people believe the kids won't get their hands on them. But with videogames they're suddently worried about children sneaking the stuff past them? Methinks some parts of the system are broken and it's not the game developers.

Besides, books are much more effective in teaching dangerous ideas. A game shows violence, a book can describe it in much more detail than you'd be able to see and more importantly can tie it into a message. The bible and the qu'ran are books that have killed thousands yet noone is going to ban them for everyone's safety. The ideologies taught by Mein Kampf are dangerous, like most propaganda literature. Many an anarchist has been inspired by the ideas of Marx and Engels, only available in book form. Yet there isn't even a rating system for books. The current system for banning media in Germany was invented with books (and to a point movies) in mind, not the video games it was applied to later on. Unfortunately the US constitution wasn't written with these dangerous media in mind, it grants free speech without exception whereas most countries exempt hate speech and stuff like that from free speech, Germany even has exemptions for youth protection (anything endangering the development of children is banned from advertising and sale to minors). You simply cannot restrict the sale of any media in the US because of the constitution.

09n: You must take into account that there are no laws preventing anyone from selling GTA3 to minors and wide availability of firearms in the US, which is where this nutjob operates. I know of the BBFC you have in the UK but the US has nothing like it. Nabbing a gun from your dad's closet isn't the hardest thing to do, either.

[ThePerm]

lol kdr..i was just thinking that books are probably the most influential medium..mein kampf is a perfect example

oh and i get crzy frustrated when my gf beats me at dr. mario..but she is better than me at it now

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I've seen my friend give her husband a good spousal slap in the shoulder while playing SSBM many times.  We're between the ages of 23-24.

[nickmitch]

It's really the parents' fault and they only blame video games so as to not reveal their own incompitance as parents.
Oh and Banning religious books would violate that whole separation of church and state thingie.

[KDR_11k]

Oh and Banning religious books would violate that whole separation of church and state thingie.

Nope, it means that under law the church is an organization like any other, it's not above the law. The secularization was invented because back then the Church had enough power to become a shadow government and force its beliefs upon others. Nowadays we don't see bishops blackmailing heads of states or religious rules integrated into the law. Well, at least in the industry nations, that is...


The problem with Jackass Thompson is that he's spurring hate towards the medium and makes it easier for parents to shift the blame. I'd like to see parents incarcerated with their child if a connection between the crime and the parenting can be drawn. Hey, Jackass's trying to make developers liable for a child's acts, how about first making the parents legally responsible?

Also I'd like to see a law that applies adult law to children that expose knowledge of the wrongs of their actions while still commiting these acts. We had a group of minors in my city that beat up people and couldn't be grabbed because children under 14 aren't punishable under law here and the parents didn't care. Punishing only the parents wouldn't work, the children would exploit it.

Though I'm also for severe punishment for exploiting loopholes in a law when it is clear that the hole wasn't intended by the legislators. Means add five years to anyone trying to outsmart the law. Oh, and when a corporation gets punished anyone involved in the decision process and execution should get punished by a corresponding sentence applicable to humans (e.g. not pay millions but go to jail for a few years). If anyone claims they were only executing orders we'll point them at Nuremberg (mmmh, oblaten...).

[vudu]

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I am working with an Oakland, CA prosecutor in a murder trial in which the older gang members used GTA 3 to train teens to do carjackings and murders.

LOL.  In order to steal someone's car, simply walk in front of it while it is going full speed (it will come to a stop right in front of you) and then press enter to automatically walk around to the nearest door and enter the vehicle while the driver politely gets out and walks the other way.