Topic: EDITORIAL: Choose Your Weapons

[NWR_Lindy]

This thread is for discussion of my editorial:

Choose Your Weapons

Any and all feedback is welcome.

silks

[PaLaDiN]

Good editorial...

However I have my doubts that any of those methods will capture the market you're aiming for.

I have the feeling that the DS being $100 less than the PSP has already painted it as a kid's toy in their eyes.

[Ian Sane]

This is first time I found out who Silks actually is since his real name isn't mentioned in his forum name, sig, or title.  Nice to meet you Jon.

Anyway I agree that the PSP could really make an impact and that announcing 24 launch games was a big deal.  I think Nintendo really hasn't prepared well for the PSP or made use of their head start.  Like the editorial says announcing and releasing a system in the same year has some major drawbacks.

I agree that announcing an online plan is the ideal thing to do but there's a potential problem.  What if Nintendo doesn't really have an online plan yet or they don't have enough of the details worked out to launch an online strategy within a reasonable time frame?  It's not as simple as "okay Sony did this so now we'll do this."  There's a small period of time to work with here and if Nintendo hasn't already planned ahead it's too late to start now.  It's the same with the PDA functions.  That's a great idea but if Nintendo hasn't done anything about it yet they can't execute that idea in time.

I think the DS vs PSP battle has largely been decided already by preparations made by each company.  If Nintendo isn't ready they're already screwed.  No one is going to wait for them to catch up to the PSP particularly when they launched first and have no excuse for not being ready.  This is going to be a close battle and I think the first one to blink is going to lose.  If major mistakes have already been made there's not enough time to fix them before it's too late.  This doesn't just apply to Nintendo as Sony could easily make a big mistake too.  It's just that right now it looks like they're on the ball and Nintendo isn't.

What scares me is the line "The DS is competing directly with the PSP no matter what Nintendo says".  Nintendo constantly talks about how the DS isn't competing with the PSP and that it's the third pillar.  Both of these ideas are retarded and I'm worried that that might be how Nintendo really thinks.  They said the Cube didn't compete with the PS2 and Xbox and the result was that for the first year Nintendo acted like a pansy and made virtually no agressive moves to battle the competition.  Eventually they caught on and started including a free game and then later the price cut but by then it was too late.  Nintendo let MS knock them out of second place in North America with barely a fight.  If that's their mentality with the DS they're screwed.  Nintendo doesn't decide who competes with them.  The general public makes that call and right now it's DS vs PSP.  If Nintendo doesn't regard this as a real battle then their dominance in the portable market is going to be taken from them quite easily.

[PsychoWiLL]

If Nintendo were to have an OS on the DS, it would HAVE to be called NintendOS.

And, ya- it's because the world is filled by 'un-informos' who don't research their actions.
In this case, people believe that it must be DS vs PSP.  So, if this is the way it is seen, then 'Ian' is correct; Nintendo should attempt to draw the crowd of gamers away from PSP. Otherwise we'll see new Ngages and the like cluttering the market.

[PaLaDiN]

I actually don't think the DS and PSP are competing.

As you said, the PSP will draw the gadget fiends, the guys like Jason... that's not Nintendo's market, Nintendo's market is the kids and Nintendo fans and the same people who bought the GBA. Unless I'm mistaken, Jason never bought a GBA.

Since they cater to mostly different markets, I don't see how they're competing.

I agree with Ian that the GC should have competed with the PS2 and Xbox, but this is a completely different case in my eyes. I can see both handhelds doing well because neither handheld is intruding on the other's target audience.

I don't understand why one has to "beat" the other to be successful. This whole handheld wars thing is stupid in my opinion.

[NWR_Lindy]

Yeah, Silks = Jon Lindemann.  I guess I'm not a good self-promoter.  =)  That and the fact that I had Nintendo's advertising department in charge of getting my name out there.  har har har

PaLaDiN: Price seems to be a double-edged sword.  On the one hand being cheap means appealing to a wide consumer audience, but on the other hand cheap can be construed as inferior (in this case, "meant for children").  Nintendo will always try to be a price leader because, for better or for worse, they look at themselves as a toymaker.  In the toy business, the cheaper the better.  Sony and Microsoft look at themselves as consumer electronics companies, and as you all know, people will overpay for what they perceive as "high-end" consumer electronics.  This is especially true for Sony - it's no secret that their high-end audio equipment is overpriced for what you get, but people buy it for the Sony name.  We can see these philosophies in action with the DS and PSP, respectively.

Ian Sane: I agree with you that Nintendo had BETTER have something up their sleeves or the DS could quickly become an afterthought in the market.  I almost could have titled this editorial "This is what Nintendo had better do with the DS or they're screwed", but that's a bit over the top don't you think?.   ;-)  Gamers will be automatically considering the PSP for no other reason than Sony's reputation for quality, so Nintendo needs to bring forth some real attention-grabbing, mention-it-around-the-water-cooler type stuff.  I only hope that they realize how close things are to being totally tipped in Sony's favor.

The whole "DS is not competing with PSP" idea is ridiculous.  That's like me creating a new type of cheese and saying, "Oh, my cheese isn't competing with any other cheese on the market, because the people that will buy my cheese aren't the same as the people that will buy those other cheeses."  That makes no sense...to Joe Consumer it's all cheese, you know?  What also make me cringe is that, with such comments, Nintendo is basically ADMITTING that they're going after the children's market instead of the adult market.  That isn't doing anything for their public image, that's for sure.

silks

[PaLaDiN]

"The whole "DS is not competing with PSP" idea is ridiculous. That's like me creating a new type of cheese and saying, "Oh, my cheese isn't competing with any other cheese on the market, because the people that will buy my cheese aren't the same as the people that will buy those other cheeses." That makes no sense...to Joe Consumer it's all cheese, you know?"

That's not a very good analogy. I think you're refusing to accept any truth in such comments for whatever reason. What I see it as is apples and oranges, or to borrow your comparison, toys and gadgets. I don't see why you feel the need to impose a competition between apples and oranges, is all I'm saying. Sure, they're both fruits, but that doesn't mean they're competing. It's like because you love apples you've started this campaign to stop people from buying oranges. That makes no sense to me.

"What also make me cringe is that, with such comments, Nintendo is basically ADMITTING that they're going after the children's market instead of the adult market. That isn't doing anything for their public image, that's for sure."

No, all Nintendo is admitting is that they're not going after Jason. Stop trying to generalize Jason to all adults. There are plenty of adults who aren't gadget fiends, you know.

I don't want to sound like I disagreed with most of your article... just that point. Most of the things you're telling Nintendo to do are actually good ideas and will make their intended audience slightly happier, but I don't think they'll help its image much with people like Jason. Jason won't care. Nintendo has never to my knowledge targeted people like Jason. Why do you insist that they should start now, just because the PSP is doing so?

[Caillan]

Of course they are competing. Two machines with similar specs and a similar function that are released around the same time are competing. Publishers who wish to develop for a handheld platform choose between the PSP and the DS, and Nintendo and Sony will take steps bias them with incentives. That's competing. Most importantly, as a gamer I'm going to be making a decision between the PSP and the DS, and gamers represent the vast majority of the DS' potential market.

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As you said, the PSP will draw the gadget fiends, the guys like Jason... that's not Nintendo's market, Nintendo's market is the kids and Nintendo fans and the same people who bought the GBA.

But everyone bought a GBA, especially gamers. To quote Gabe from Penny Arcade, "If your friends do not own a GBA already, then I think you need to get yourself some new f*cking friends." Of course, that twas wrote in humour, but that's a pretty significant quote regardless. My point is that the GBA has such a huge market share, and if the DS sells as well as the GBA has then the DS will push out the the PSP.

I understand that introducing new consumers to the market is important, and judging from some of the statistics they've given out, Nintendo have succeeded. I'd attribute that to original hardware design and a good advertising campiagn. Wow Nintendo just need to give us good games which will attract hardcore gamers and non-gamers alike.

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I agree with you that Nintendo had BETTER have something up their sleeves or the DS could quickly become an afterthought in the market.

Well I think we can at least expect a price drop/bundling a few weeks before the PSP is released. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if either one major first or second party title was rushed ala Wind Waker, or if a third party one was hyped to help diminish the PSP's launch-rush.

Late edit: Sony has announced that one million PSP units will be available at launch in America.

[Rize]

I think there's a good possibility that the PSP's timing and likely shortages will work against it.  For the PS2, the shortages didn't hurt because there were a riduclous amount of people trying to get one.  The PSP may have shortages, but I think they'll likely be more Sony's fault than the result of hoards of people looking for a PSP.  By the time they get some stock on shelves, interest may wane.  Some who couldn't find one may change their mind and never get one.  It depends on how the PSP and Nintendo's DS are marketed.  Depending on Sony's stock situation, it may make more sense for Nintendo to hold off on big anouncements until a time after the launch.  They likely cannot prevent Sony from selling every single unit at launch considering they don't have a huge stockpile to work with (unless I'm wrong on that assumption).

Anyway, making big DS (and even GBA2) anouncements just before the PSP goes on sale is just the kind of tactic that works (as Sony proved by using those exact measures against Sega's Dreamcast 5 years ago).  It'll be interesting to see if Nintendo does anything noticable.

[Caillan]

Well, in Europe and Australia the PSP has been delayed until an ambiguous June, and they still haven't sold a million units yet in Japan. I think it's possible their North American launch will not suffer from great hardware shortages. Even if every unit they ship in is sold, additional hype is still good for them. If everyone's talking about how they were looking for a PSP but couldn't find one, that will equal more mind-share and more sales when the next shipment comes in.  

[edgeblade69]

You said Nintendo needs to do somehting by the end of March (when the PSP launches), but why wait that long? Why not do something at the beginning of March? Yes, I'm talking about GDC. The 2nd week of March would be a perfect opportunity for Nintendo to come out firing all their guns at Sony.
I wish they compiled numbers on repeat buyers (i.e. people who buy the same system more than once). I guarantee you Nintendo would come out ahead in that department. I've only had my PS2 for 2 weeks and I've already knocked it over 3 or 4 times. The controller even fell from a height of maybe 2 feet and a piece of plastic by the L buttons chipped off, gimme a break. I don't think I've ever knocked my GCN over and I know I've dropped my GCN controllers from equal heights and never had anything chip off. If Nintendo could get a hold of those #s, they could heavily push that their products don't break and you won't have to spend extra money to replace them, ever. This would be a big selling point for stingy people and gamers I think anyways.

[Don'tHate742]

I agree with mostly everything said, but the fact about the two competing against each other is half true. The two markets that Sony and Nintendo are going for overlap one another. To use the apple and oranges analogy, there are people that love apples, and those that love oranges, and those that love both but only want one. Which is more appealing to their needs? I am one of those that love both. Though I'm not considering a PSP now, I might if Sony makes it the PS2 of handhelds. I hope Nintendo can entice me more towards the apples side becuase I really like the touchscreen idea, and I love the possiblities it has. But one question always bugs my mind. When will I see these possiblities taken advantage of? If they annouce a PDA accessory, I'm aboard the Nintendo wagon. Alot of people would be. They don't need a huge screen or coolness factor. We want an all-around quality product. I think alot of people are like me...gamers who want quality, but don't see it yet. Gamers who are going to wait to see how it plays out instead of jumping in and taking sides. These are the gamers that both companies are targeting and therefore competing against one another.

There are a couple things Nintendo could do to make me pick them...
1. Launch an Online plan that includes more than just hooking into a server ala Xbox Live. I want the ability to play with my friends who my be right next to me against another group in Japan. Also the ability to communicated would be nice also.
2. PDA functions with the ability to transfer images/videos/music/files from one DS to another.
3. Long distance chat between DS's (through online). Maybe the ability to even see them and here them (obviously for chatting with one person only).
4. The DS waking up feature. The highlander type sense where it tells you (by vibrating/or maybe custimized tones ala cell phones) if another DS is in the area.

[vudu]

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Huh? What? How did this guy even know about the PSP? Why would he consider buying one?

Out of curiosity, does your friend know that the PSP does not play DVD's and it does not play PS2 games?  There seems to be a common misconception amongst non-gamers who think that the PSP is just a portable PS2.

[odifiend]

All Nintendo has to do is use a tactic often used in politics.
"President of Sony, K. K., had this to say about the PSP - buttons don't work by design blah blah and consumers and developpers should accept it.  Would you buy a broken game machine for 200 bucks? Down with PSP - or something like that."
Apparently negative campaigns do wonders in America... ;_______;

[NWR_Lindy]

kingvudu: Maybe yes, maybe no.  But I can tell you with some certainty that he won't be buying it to be a portable DVD player...he already has a really nice widescreen laptop to do that.

Rize: The fact that PSP will undoubtedly sell out at launch is a good point.  Nintendo isn't going to stop that no matter what they do because the launch PSPs will be snapped up by all the early-adopters.  But they at least need to announce something to sway those people that are saying, "Maybe I'll buy a PSP a few months after launch".

DontHate742: I think it'd be amazing if the DS used Skype (free voice-over-IP software).  With the built-in mic you could do it, too.  That would be a killer app for sure, since you can use Skype to literally call anywhere in the world for something like 2cents/minute.

I don't think the DS and PSP are apples and oranges at all.  They're in the same market space providing the same service, so they're competing.  Now, they'll be able to coexist without a doubt, I'm not debating that, but most consumers will choose either a DS or PSP, not both.  There's a younger market and an older market to be served out there, and Nintendo had better be trying to serve the older market because you can bet Sony will be serving the younger market in one way or another.  Just because nobody's really attracted older gamers to portables doesn't mean that Nintendo couldn't have done it by now.

silks
 

[SuperMario35]

One thing that I dont like is that third party publishers are flooding the PSP with games.
There are also too many killer apps coming to the PSP like GTA, Metal Gear, and alot others. Sony is just aiming for an older audience, but little kids just want to be cool and play games like GTA and other older games. Nintendo said they were aiming at an audience from 5 to 95 if if they want to do this they have to balance there games from E to M. Most PSP titles are going to range from T to M. So Far Nintendo or a third party publisher has not yet announced an M rated games. My point is parents dont really care what there kids play these days. Everybody is going to want one not just for the multimedia options but for older games. I know without a doubt that any PSP user is going to want a GTA game for there PSP. I hope Nintendo does something to fix this. I love Nintendo and there games there all great but some kids dont want to be seen playing super mario or mr driller because they think there baby games, hopefully Nintendo does something to fix this. Adults also love sports games and I know EA will give a a Madden game sooner or later to the PSP. Adults love sports titles. The reason they haven't been doing so good on gameboy is because of the graphics the DS futher improves this issue but not by much. Graphic wise the PSP is going to be the perfect system for sports games but who knows I might be wrong. Nintendo sooner or later will do something about the PSP and give DS something better maybe a portable smash bros? Who knows hopefully Nintendo will suceed with what they do not only with the DS but with the next gameboy. Great Editorial by the way.

[Rize]

"The fact that PSP will undoubtedly sell out at launch is a good point. Nintendo isn't going to stop that no matter what they do because the launch PSPs will be snapped up by all the early-adopters. But they at least need to announce something to sway those people that are saying, "Maybe I'll buy a PSP a few months after launch"."

Point.  Even if there isn't stock, launch is the big hype time and any major DS anouncements will be equally hyped and visible.  Launch is the time to strike even if there is a shortage of units on Sony's.

What Nintendo needs is someway to get people who are going into get a PSP, find that there's no stock, and decides to get a DS instead.  I doubt there's any app that Nintendo could dream up (even with a lot of time) that could achieve that in vast numbers though.

[ib2kool4u912]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"The whole "DS is not competing with PSP" idea is ridiculous. That's like me creating a new type of cheese and saying, "Oh, my cheese isn't competing with any other cheese on the market, because the people that will buy my cheese aren't the same as the people that will buy those other cheeses." That makes no sense...to Joe Consumer it's all cheese, you know?"

That's not a very good analogy. I think you're refusing to accept any truth in such comments for whatever reason. What I see it as is apples and oranges, or to borrow your comparison, toys and gadgets. I don't see why you feel the need to impose a competition between apples and oranges, is all I'm saying. Sure, they're both fruits, but that doesn't mean they're competing. It's like because you love apples you've started this campaign to stop people from buying oranges. That makes no sense to me.

The thing is, in this case, many people can only afford an apple or an orange. So they do end up competing because someone wants fruit but can only have one.

And i think you guys are half right about them not competing. They aren't competing for their specific demographics. They both are gonna get their target audiences, Sony with non-gamers and Nintendo with younger children. You probably won't see a five year old with a PSP just like you won't see someone who's never played video games before all the sudden need to get a DS (although that touchscreen might prove me wrong). But they are competing for the people that are around my age (i'm 14), the people in highschool. These are the people that are probably leaning toward PSP because it's "cool" but can still be won by Nintendo through good games or other things. They are competing for this group.

[PaLaDiN]

As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle... but I think it's wrong to just outright blindly deny any truth in Nintendo's claims. They make them for a reason.

The two handhelds can and will coexist because they rely on different markets... just because those markets overlap in certain areas does not mean one of them has to win there in order to survive. Stop with this overdramatic "Nintendo has to do this or they're screwed" crap. The only part of the market that's up for grabs between Sony and Nintendo is the people who are still unsure about which handheld they're going to get and can only buy one of them. Gadget lovers do not fall into this market. If you insist on seeing this as a gang war of sorts, then they fall squarely into the heart of Sony's territory.

Gadget fiends will not consider the DS because it's not a gadget. Kids and their parents will not consider the PSP because it's too expensive. Nintendo fans will not consider the PSP because it doesn't have Nintendo games.  The people who are drawn into the market by the DS's touchscreen will not consider the PSP.

I think it's pointless to ask Nintendo to undertake the massive effort it will take to paint the DS as a gadget all of a sudden. As I said before, no matter what they do they'll still have the lower price going against them in that regard, among other things. You might as well ask Sony to release a touchscreen addon just to draw in the people who like the DS's touchscreen. I say let Sony have the gadget market and wage war against them where it counts, in the mindshare of the undecided. And in that respect, the suggestions you brought up are pretty good and might help people decide between one and the other. It's just that I disagree with your assumption that Jason will be one of those people.

[NWR_Lindy]

Maybe Jason would never have considered the DS in the first place.  You're probably right.  But Nintendo would be smart to paint their DS as more than just a games machine to at least let people know that there's an alternative to the PSP.  Releasing the Play-Yan in the U.S. wouldn't be a bad thing, no matter how you slice it.

And if the GBA SP was considered a gadget (which it most definitely was, getting write-ups in Wired, Maxim, and all kinds of other "hip" magazines), how can the DS not be considered a gadget?  I think it most definitely is one, and Nintendo should sell it as such.  Why have the touch-screen and stylus if you can't use it for productivity applications like a Palm Pilot?  That seems like a waste to me, since it's such a natural extension of the hardware.

Furthermore, I'm not debating that the two handhelds can coexist.  I just think that the whole "we're not competing with PSP" schtick is garbage, a smokescreen that Nintendo puts up to mask the fact that they have never been able to successfully attract the older demographic like Sony does.  It's like failing at something and then saying, "Oh, it doesn't really count because I wasn't trying anyways".  What do you think, Nintendo doesn't want to sell their products to older consumers?  That's crazy.

silks

[Deguello]

In Nintendo's defense, Sony was saying the same thing.  That they weren't competing against the DS with the PSP.

[Don'tHate742]

I don't think Nintendo has to or wants to change it's stance on "We soley make game machines (paraphrased)." And by all means I think that is acceptible, companies as well as people should stand up for something they believe in. I see a solution though for Nintendo to "paint" (i like that analogy) their DS as a gadget while still remain purely game-only company. (Though I think they already went back on that with the Play-Yan.)

Why not say that this ______ is for use in better connectivity, allowing for better game experiences. Take the PDA function for example. You could easily say that it's to better the transfer and play of files for Mulitplayer and Demos, by organizing them and setting up options, along with many other controls  to overall better the gameplay experience. Wow I can see that in a press conference. Now what about the VOIP. Well that's even easier. Online is a given. You see Nintendo never has to give up there stance at all, they could just mask it in a way.

[mjbd]

Nintendo has done just about everything right with the DS except for the mistake they made with the N64, not having enough software after launch.  If the N64 hadnt had such a slow period of software releases after launching the system, it would have gone toe to toe with Sony in that generation.  I see the same thing happening with the DS, but hopefully nintendo does what it can to keep Sony from completely taking over.  Start releasing more info on upcoming games, features that will only be available on the DS, and if possible cut the price a week before the PSP launches.  Even if it only a $20 price cut, it would make an impact.  

[nickmitch]

Waaaaay too early for a price cut.

[Rize]

It's never too early for a price cut.  The N64's US price was cut 50 dollars before it even went on sale.