Topic: Gamecube console, profit from day one?

[Christberg]

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Originally posted by: RickPowers

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Still, the cost of molded steel is the same it's been for ages.

Prove it.  Technological advancements in steel production occur just like in any other industry, perhaps not as fast as in high tech, but steel is no where near as expensive now as it was, say 50 years ago.  Unless you can back up your statements, I suggest you let this go ... because if I have to dig up the figures to prove my point, I'm going to be very angry.

And you wouldn't like me when I'm angry.  

I'm going to let it go and all because the effort to find that information would be difficult at best.  Finding the bill of materials for a HD would be the same as finding the bill of materials for a GC, and if you can't do that in your position...  Frankly most likely not possible.  I'm going to let it go with a little story:  you see, I play in a band that makes experimental music, and a while back I asked friend of mine who has an EE degree what it would cost for him to make some custom pedals for me.  (this was about a year and a half ago) Since his father happens to be a professor of Engineering at UW, he has access to all the materials to make them at cost.  The cost of the electronics I wanted would have cost less than what it would cost to buy (about 3 bucks), but the casings and power supply?  8 bucks for just the casing for it.


Ever wonder why the cost for the power supply in your PC has never budged from 50 dollars since the 8086, but the quality is way worse now?  Let's face it, the resistors and circuit board costs are nothing now and they're pretty much the same they've always been.  It's the metal.

But seriously, this is my last post about this and I'm letting you win.  You win.

[StRaNgE]

nice to see some  interesting feedback form from this.

i have no idea what steel  or other metals cost 20 years ago but i purchase small amounts of steel brass and aluminum all the time. a brass rod  of 5/16 diamiter runs about 10 bucks for 3 feet of it depending on where ya get it.


as far as external harddrives go, the one i got for   myself about 2-3  years ago  is 60 gigs and ran about 250-300 same one is i think 150-200 now.

[theaveng]

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Originally posted by: Christberg
Still, the cost of molded steel is the same it's been for ages.  HDs aren't like a microprocessor where you can just shrink the size of it by half and then manufacture them in the same size wafers, effectively dropping the cost directly relative to the size of the chip.

Anyone who's ever purchased a Hard Drive knows this is blatantly false.  I recall spending $300 to get a 20 megabyte drive.  (No that's not a typo...it was really that small.)  Now I can spend the same amount of money for a drive that is (1) half as large (2) holds 10,000 times as much information:200 gigabytes (3) operates much, much, much faster.  Hard Drives are following the same process of shrinkage and diminishing costs as microprocessors.

As for steel, I don't have a direct knowledge of prices, but I'm aware that manufacturers are *constantly* experimenting to find cheaper methods of manufacture.  The raw material remains the same, but new methods of retrieving, processing, and forming that raw material decrease labor, waste, and costs.

 

[Christberg]

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Originally posted by: theaveng

Quote
Originally posted by: Christberg
Still, the cost of molded steel is the same it's been for ages.  HDs aren't like a microprocessor where you can just shrink the size of it by half and then manufacture them in the same size wafers, effectively dropping the cost directly relative to the size of the chip.

Anyone who's ever purchased a Hard Drive knows this is blatantly false.  I recall spending $300 to get a 20 megabyte drive.  (No that's not a typo...it was really that small.)  Now I can spend the same amount of money for a drive that is (1) half as large (2) holds 10,000 times as much information:200 gigabytes (3) operates much, much, much faster.  Hard Drives are following the same process of shrinkage and diminishing costs as microprocessors.

As for steel, I don't have a direct knowledge of prices, but I'm aware that manufacturers are *constantly* experimenting to find cheaper methods of manufacture.  The raw material remains the same, but new methods of retrieving, processing, and forming that raw material decrease labor, waste, and costs.

The size and raw materials hasn't changed in a very, very long time.  I can prove that no problem.  But seriously, I'm dropping this.  

[theaveng]

You can't prove it, because it's not true.  I've been using/purchasing hard drives for nearly 20 years, and I KNOW the cost has come down.  I know, because I was *there*.  20 megabytes was $300 in the late 80's.  Today you can purchase an ultra- tiny drive about $50.  The price came down.

In the late 80's builiding a hard drive-equipped console like X-box would have been extremely expensive (~$1000).  Now, we can do it for ~$300.  Why?  Because PRICES DROPPED on hard drive manufacturing costs.

Anyway to me, your assertion is as silly as saying, "There's no difference between 1980's and 2000's cars."   It's just a stupid remark.  
(Note I said your remark was stupid, not you.  I criticize ideas, not people.)

[Christberg]

Quote
Originally posted by: theaveng
You can't prove it, because it's not true.  I've been using/purchasing hard drives for nearly 20 years, and I KNOW the cost has come down.  I know, because I was *there*.  20 megabytes was $300 in the late 80's.  Today you can purchase an ultra- tiny drive about $50.  The price came down.

In the late 80's builiding a hard drive-equipped console like X-box would have been extremely expensive (~$1000).  Now, we can do it for ~$300.  Why?  Because PRICES DROPPED on hard drive manufacturing costs.

Anyway to me, your assertion is as silly as saying, "There's no difference between 1980's and 2000's cars."   It's just a stupid remark.  
(Note I said your remark was stupid, not you.  I criticize ideas, not people.)

Wrong, the size really hasn't changed for ages man...

http://www.westerndigital.com/products/legacy/Legacy.asp?r=1#dimensions
Western Digital 40 mb drive dimensions:
1 inch X 5.7 inches X 4.00 inches weight:1.12 pounds

http://www.westerndigital.com/products/products.asp?DriveID=38 (you have to click on the dimensions link to get it)
Western Digital 200 GB drive dimensions:
1.028 inchesX 5.787 inches X 4.00 inches weight: 1.32 pounds

The size of the Xbox hard drive is the same as well.  Seriously man, the size hasn't changed because the AT standard dictates the drive dimensions.

My 14mb drive that I put in my 386/SX20 back in the day??? Same size.

There ARE microdrives out there that have a smaller form factor but those are designed for laptops and the Xbox chassis would need a redesign to use them.  They also cost more.  If I dig around HardOCP I can find pics to illustrate that, too... but once again, I'd really like to drop this.