Topic: The Gamecube is a failure.

[InfinitysEnd]

Ok guys, I'm starting this topic to get your writing juices flowing.  I think there was an editorial on PGC that touched a little bit on this issue, but I just wanted to get this to be a really good full-fledged board topic in which we can get some good discussion on the issue.  I hope this doesn't envelop into an immature system bash/flame war, so please, I beg you, just be curteous, use REAL language, and for the love of christ, use punctuation!

As much as I hate to admit it, the Gamecube is an absolute failure.  Suprising coming from me, since it's the only next-gen console I own.  Even though it does exactly what I need it to do, and satisfys my gaming pleasure, there is also a matter of the rest of the gaming community in which the Gamecube simply does not cut it.   Okay...let's see.  What does the Gamecube have?
2D Oldschool fighters? Nope.  
RPGs? Nope.  
ESPN/Sega sports games? Nope.
Great racing games? Nope.  
How about those War-themed FPS/special ops games?  Nope.  
Online games? Nope.
Flight Sims?  Nope.
RTS's?  Nope.
Mech battle games? Nope.
Star Wars Battlefront? Nope. (but we get sh!tty re-hashes of Rogue Squadron)
Fable? Nope.
GTA? Nope. (who needs that anyway)

Okay, okay, enough cynicism.  Let's see what they actually DO have.
Mario Kart, Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Party, Paper Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Donkey Konga, and a ton of other great first party titles.  

There is next-to nothing from 3rd parties on the GC that you can't get on another console, and if it's on XBox, it's more than likely better.  If it's on PS2, the graphics/load times suck, but it's probably out sooner, so why wait?  

All I can say is that I'm sick of it.  Nintendo obviously FAILED in a number of places:
1.) getting a mainstream demographic to accept their console
2.) getting enough developers to make a lot of great games for their system
3.) getting enough quality games
4.) having a smaller disc size may help on piracy, but fails when forcing developers to cut corners or compress otherwise good content
5.) a purple system on launch, but only advertising a black one now, it obviously didn't change a damn thing.
6.) "exclusives" end up all being lies or just end up being cancelled altogether.*  (RE4 & VJ come to mind)
7.) Realizing that their name alone isn't going to keep them alive.
*and WHY are these companies renegging their decision about GC exclusivity?  Because they realized it would get them next to no money! Why?  Because GC is failure.

The best example of proving how much of a failure is this:  I work at Blockbuster video.  Our games section, while not the greatest, is the perfect analogy to how the system race is going.  Our PS2 section is about 20 bays (each bay is 6 shelves that can hold about 8-10 games each).  Our Xbox section is about 10 bays.  And the GC section?  3 bays.  It's not that Nintendo doesn't support the rental industry, it's that THERE AREN'T ENOUGH *NEW* GAMES TO PLAY ON THE GAMECUBE.  Period.  And what does that look like to the average gamer?  I'll tell you: it looks like since there isn't enough games to play on the Gamecube, why the hell should they invest their money into it when you can get tons more (and probably BETTER) on the PS2 or Xbox?  Do people buy every game released on a system?  No!  But they sure as hell rent them.  Renting is the best way to experience a game without having to dish out the  insane $45-$50 purchase price.  In the 6-month period that I have been working there, there have probably been at least 50 games released on the PS2.  The Xbox probably had about the same.  GC has probably had about 10.

I feel Nintendo is only relying on their die-hard fans (me for example) which is absolutely asinine.  It's like Nike only making shoes for people that like to play basketball.  It just doesn't cut it.  You have to give in and you can't limit yourself to one thing.  Broaden your horizons, etc.  But alas, it's all too late for that.

I know there must be a lot of Nintendo lovers here since this is a Gamecube website, but if you have ever told yourself that there is absolutely nothing on the PS2 or Xbox worth playing, you really might want to either open your eyes or think about getting a new hobby.

Before I end this (I'm sure I'll be writing more later) all I can say is if they think the DS is going to save them, they're up sh!t creek without a paddle.

[Bill Aurion]

2D Oldschool fighters? Nope.
RPGs? Nope.
ESPN/Sega sports games? Nope.
Great racing games? Nope.
How about those War-themed FPS/special ops games? Nope.
Online games? Nope.
Flight Sims? Nope.
RTS's? Nope.
Mech battle games? Nope.
Star Wars Battlefront? Nope. (but we get sh!tty re-hashes of Rogue Squadron)
Fable? Nope.
GTA? Nope. (who needs that anyway)

Oh man, good thing I really don't like any of these games/genres... =)

[InfinitysEnd]

I think you completely missed my point. Think about how many games entail to all those genres I describe.  And all are ones that aren't being developed on the GC.  You don't see that as a problem?

[Bill Aurion]

It's not my problem...I play videogames because I have fun, not because I'm in some sort of race...Therefore, I will only play games that I will enjoy...None of those qualify for me, and that's one of the reasons I'm a Nintendo fan...

It's selfish, it's crude...BUT I DON'T CARE...

[Luigi]

I'm with Bill on this one.  I started to make one of those lame game lists to refute your off-target claims.  Doesn't  Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO  count as a good 2D fighter?  And I can think of 12 RPG's offhand and the GameCube is weak on RPG's?  Seriously, your claims are false and we are happy even if you are not.

[InfinitysEnd]

If you think Lost Kingdoms 1&2, Phantasy Star Online, hell even Baiten Kaitos are good RPG's, well, then I guess I'll have to disagree with you.  I don't even like RPGs anymore, so it doesn't matter.  All I'm trying to say is that it's a failure of a system.  It doesn't do anything to outperform the other systems,(GAME-wise, not power-wise) and the things that it DOES do better it does by a very slim margin.  I love Nintendo games just as much as you guys do, but I can't quite say that Nintendo made a successful system.  

[Odeix]

As far as I know it's too strong to say the Gamecube is an absolute failure. It is more of a limited success. I believe Nintendo is still turning a profit from their console/game sales and they still own the handheld industry as well as numerous strong 1st party developers.

True, they've been making poor decisions lately, but I don't think it's anything impossible to turn around. After all, they are the only console company with a 100% concentration in video games so I don't think they'll be giving up on that market anytime soon.

[Pale]

You listed a shoddy rpg as far as something Gamecube doesn't have...and you forget about tales of symphonia.  If there is a reason the Gamecube is a failure, its because of mass ignorance by fad gamers and the piece of crap marketing machine thatis Microsoft.

[Luigi]

Baiten Kaitos isn't out yet, I'm interested in its story so I'm reserving judgement.  I really enjoyed Harvest Moon, Tales of Symphonia, Skies of Arcadia which I see you didn't mention in favor of poor titles to make your point.   Please stop trolling.

[King of Twitch]

2D Oldschool fighters? Capcom vs SNK why does it need to be in 2d?
RPGs? Baiten Kaitos Evolution Phantasy Star FF:CC Paper Mario Skies of Arcadia Legends Harvest Moon
ESPN/Sega sports games? I got NFL 2K3 for $10 plenty of Madden
Great racing games? Oh yes. F-Zero Mario Kart Crazy Taxi Burnout Extreme G 3 Need for Speed Underground Wave Race: Blue Storm
How about those War-themed FPS/special ops games? yep Conflict: Desert Storm, Conflict: Desert Storm II - Back to Baghdad, Medal of Honor, Red Faction II, Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon
Online games? yep.
Flight Sims? theyre on PC
RTS's? ROUS'? I don't think they exist
Mech battle games? Should be Mobile Suit Gundam: Pilots' Locus, Robotech: Battlecry
Star Wars Battlefront? RS2 and 3, sequels
Fable? Never coming out
GTA? Nope. old news.

Gamecube
+ lots of fun
- mine is broken

Score: B+

Source: http://www.planetgamecube.com/reviews.cfm  

[KDR_11k]

Depending on your definition of success or failure (e.g. Bill's definition of success: It pleases ME!) you can call the GC anything from a huge success to a severe failure. I'm tending towards slight failure: While the system made up for SOME of the errors from the N64 generation it still fails to provide much outside of Nintendo's first party games whose quality and freshness has been declining lately (see M64/SMS, OOT/WW, etc). For a gamer who wants to experience a broad spectrum of games the Cube is the wrong choice.
Some of these are beyond Nintendo's control and some were in their control at least in the beginning. Things like the "kiddy image" won't go away easily and some other snafus, while not immediately relevant (e.g. online gaming), might come back to bite them in the ass if they don't act next gen.
Generally I think the Cube is beyond any help, it cannot be turned into a fully successful system anymore. Their next chance is the Rev pre, during and post launch period, when they have to secure a userbase that actually buys games.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I just played some Mario Tennis.

What's everyone else been up to?
Old arguments.

[Ian Sane]

I wouldn't call the Gamecube an "absolute" failure.  The Cube has several titles that 10 years from now people will still be talking about and playing.  That's better than say the Virtual Boy, 3DO, Jaguar, or CD-i.  Those consoles are "absolute" failures because they don't really have any titles that make the system worth owning years later.

I'd say the Cube still is a failure in the sense that it had a lot of potential and failed to meet it.  Nintendo is arguably in a worse situation now than they were when the Cube launched.  Sure the N64 was a flop but at the time it could have been seen as a fluke.  Nintendo had been the market leader for two generations and then goofed with the cartridge thing.  They were a normally competent company that made a mistake.  However the Cube has given Nintendo the image of a failure.  There's no excuse for it's underperformance like the N64 had.  Nintendo's next console is now going to have a huge uphill battle because of the Cube's performance.  Nintendo's image is worse than it's ever been.

The Cube also failed to reach the expectations that a lot of fans had going in.  Promises were made and were broken.  The Cube was supposed to have better third party support.  It was supposed to have more mature titles.  It was supposed to have games from second parties like Rare, Silicon Knights, and Left Field (which released 1, 2, and 0 Cube titles each).  It was supposed to have online games (why else would it have a broadband adapter).

When third parties are pretty much completely abandoning the system, and the general public acts like there are only two consoles, and rental stores aren't even stocking games, and people are constantly questioning the manufacturers future as a console maker then, yeah, the system's a failure.

Now I still love my Cube for some of the exclusive games it has and in retrospect I would probably still have bought one just for titles like Metroid Prime and Pikmin.  But the difference between what I expected and what was delivered is light years apart.  It's ironic that my initial optimism regarding the Cube has made me pretty pessimistic about Nintendo's future.

[Pale]

Hey the Mario Tennis franchise kind of started on the Virtual Boy.  I still play it in fact.

Mario Tennis = Virtual Boy = Success

=P

[MattVDB]

How to put this?  I bought a cube on launch day.  I have 15 or so games.  It broke out of warantee, and I even went and bought a new one.  But, I haven't bought a new game since Christmas last year.  I'm buying Metroid Prime 2, but waiting that long for another game is kinda sad.

What I have played on my cube, I extremely enjoy.  The problem is, I haven't done much of that for the past year.  I have owned every console they have released, and have yet to own another competitors console, but I'm still trying to figure out why I haven't been interested with them for this past year.  It really surprises me. (oh, and for the record, I did rent a few games and beat them, but didn't feel them worthy of purchases)

Because they haven't sold anything to me for the past year, I could technically call them a failure, but I know they are in much better shape then that.  Because they haven't sold anything to my classmates for the past few years, I should technically call them a failure.  Maybe it has something to do with me now being a poor college student or something, but I know I'm finding a way with Echoes.  The only next game I see on the horizon too is Starfox and the new Zelda.  We'll see how that goes...

(Please don't flame me.  I've personally convinced every one of my frieds so far to buy a cube.  How many of you have that track record?)

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I convinced my close friends.  They love Pikmin1/2, Paper Mario, and Smash Bros. and they're always borrowing my games.  

[Ian Sane]

"But, I haven't bought a new game since Christmas last year."

Wait.  You have Olimar as your avatar and you don't own Pikmin 2?  Huh?

While I've been rather disappointed by the Cube as a whole this year it really delivered some amazing games.  The Twin Snakes and Four Swords Adventure both did what few games do.  They made me play them non-stop until I beat them.  Usually I take breaks but with those two I had to keep playing.  And of course we also have Pikmin 2 which is amazing and I'm sure Metroid Prime 2 will be great.  I haven't played Paper Mario 2 yet but it's got to be at least as good as the original.

I've heard a lot of people show disappointment with the Cube this year which I agree with.  The Cube's hit that point of no return and it makes sense to be disappointed with how it performed.  I'm disappointed too.  But "I haven't bought a Cube game since last year" is a sh!tty arguement.  Even if you exclude Twin Snakes because it's a remake and Metroid Prime 2 because it's not out yet I still named three must own titles.  And these aren't games like Viewtiful Joe where you might like them or you might not.  These are "if you hate these you're insane" games.  If you couldn't find something to buy this year for the Cube you just weren't f*cking looking.

[PaLaDiN]

Heh.

I think some of you guys had unrealistic expectations.

I bought a GC only for Nintendo games... the way I figured it, everything else was just a bonus. And Nintendo certainly delivered... some of my favorite games ever are on the GC. Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Pikmin 2, Tales of Symphonia, Eternal Darkness, Smash Bros, Paper Mario, Mario Kart and Tennis, Four Swords ... I've enjoyed every single one of those games more than anything either of the other consoles had to offer. Except for DMC1... that was good too.

If I could only buy one console from the past 20 years, it would be the GC. Personally, I don't see how you can classify that as a failure.

[RABicle]

Quote
I know there must be a lot of Nintendo lovers here since this is a Gamecube website, but if you have ever told yourself that there is absolutely nothing on the PS2 or Xbox worth playing, you really might want to either open your eyes or think about getting a new hobby.

I can think of plenty of PS2 games I want but I need the money to buy a PS2 and the games. However I am struggling to think of one any exclusive Xbox games worth playing. Fable maybe? Dunno.

[PaLaDiN]

"However I am struggling to think of one any exclusive Xbox games worth playing."

Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon.

[Mario]

Failure at what? Getting more people to buy it than console X or Y? Apparently, so what? Does it fail at providing great games? Hell no. Almost every category you listed as GC not having, it has, i'm not gonna go through it with quotes and crap because that's stupid. If you can't find enough games on GC to satisfy you, you aren't looking hard enough.

I do agree with Ians post though, when I bought a GC at launch I was incredibly optimistic about it's future, if things had went according to how I thought they would back in 2001, i'd be playing a revolutionary new Donkey Kong or Mario platformer right now, while taking a break from Donkey Kong Racing online. I actually had a list titled "Most Wanted Games 2002" in one of my school books that I just uncovered and it made me feel kinda sad, it had Perfect Dark Zero, Mario Tennis and Kameo on it. Sure, two of them Rare games, and we all know the situation with them, and who knows how those games would have actually turned out, but the point is I expected them to be out, and they aren't, and never will be.  Just looking at the back of my GC box now it has Kameo and Donkey Kong Racing, games that will no longer be released.

I'm disappointed it hasn't lived up to my incredibly high expectations (and honestly, that's because it does (or did) have INCREDIBLY high potential), but it still is my favourite console of all time. I had no idea I would be playing games like Viewtiful Joe, Pikmin and Wind Waker when I bought a GC, but i've acepted them and I absolutely love them. And I still got some games I was hoping for in one form or another, for example Timesplitters 2 delivered what I wanted from a new Perfect Dark, and Super Monkey Ball provided a great fresh multiplayer experience. I have over 30 GC games and I don't regret buying one of them.

[PaLaDiN]

"I have over 30 GC games and I don't regret buying one of them."

I've got quite a few games too but I do regret buying SFA and PoP. The rest is all good though.

[Ian Sane]

"I think some of you guys had unrealistic expectations."

My expectation was for the Cube to be about where the Xbox is now (in America anywa).  Not in first place and not with any chance of being in first place but with a strong brand name, decent third party support, and a growing userbase.  I expected the Cube to be seen as a contender and to have respect from gamers.  I think that was really realistic.  Nintendo could have pulled that off easily.  The Cube's failure is largely due to stupid mistakes on the part of Nintendo that were easily avoidable.

"I bought a GC only for Nintendo games... the way I figured it, everything else was just a bonus."

That's not Nintendo.  That's the N64 Nintendo.  The Nintendo I became a fan of is NES, SNES, GB, GBC and GBA Nintendo.  The Nintendo that makes the best games in the world, takes risks, and tries to crush the competition like a grape.  The wimpy play-it-safe Nintendo that let's its userbase down and half-asses everything is not the real Nintendo.  If you go into a Nintendo console with that attitude you're got low expectations.  It's pretty realistic in retrospect but you shouldn't tolerate that situation.  If Nintendo keeps trying to please fans with that sort of attitude they'll be out of business within 10 years.  Nintendo's the best so expect the best and demand the best because that's what they're capable of.

[MattVDB]

"Maybe it has something to do with me now being a poor college student or something"

I rented the Twin Snakes, and frankly, I would have liked to have played more.  I played through and beat Pikmin 2 on a rental (yes, and all the challenges), so I couldn't justify purchasing it, even though I thorougly enjoyed it.  I don't have any friends with gameboys, so I'd be playing through 4 swords by myself.  I'm not against doing that, but it just hasn't motivated me enough to get it.  

I have dismissed Tales and Paper Mario due to the fact I'm not a big RPGer.  After hearing so many good things about them though, I would very much like to try them, but they have yet to take me to a point of conviction that I must own each of them.  But all of this most likely for me goes back to the fact that I'm flat broke going to college, and if something doesn't convince me that I absolutely need to own it, I don't have a problem passing it up.

Again like I said, I could technically say they are a failure, but I _understand_ that that isn't the case.  As long as they are making money, they can't be considered a failure.  I just think their mindshare needs to increase.  When that happens, it will not only compell me to buy more, but everybody else to as well.  Example, I just downloaded the Halo demo due to all the hype.  I wanted to see how good the game really was.  As I was playing it, my video game inept landlord came through and heard me play it.  He asked what it was and I told him.   He was like "Halo 2 just came out.  Did you know that?"  Video game inept, but he knew that.  Nintendo needs to do the same, thats all I'm saying.

[Mario]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"I have over 30 GC games and I don't regret buying one of them."

I've got quite a few games too but I do regret buying SFA and PoP. The rest is all good though.

Funny, Starfox Adventures is actually one of the three games that sold me the GC (SSBM and Wave Race: BS were the others). Just watching the trailer back then was awesome, it looked like a Zelda game taken to the next level, unfortunately it turned out to be a lot less than that, but I still ended up liking it. It had so much more potential though =\