Topic: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant

[odifiend]

A shooting game is not a bloodfest?  I have nothing against shooters, but when Nintendo and Rare made Perfect Dark, you saw what direction they went in.  As a rule the more realistic a game is, the more bloody it is.

[KDR_11k]

Caillan: I never said we need to get rid of the happyness, I said we need games that use other themes as well. Not kill all happyness but use it more sparingly, letting other themes get their due time as well.

One important thing is believability of a setting. This invokes a certain feeling, too. Having a country called Mushroom Kingdom inhabited by antropomorphous mushrooms isn't exactly believable. There are ways to make the most absurd scenarios sound believable but children's stories often fail to do so. When you're told that the Space Pirates were researching a new form of energy and stumbled upon Metroids, which they saw great potential in and their experiment went wrong that sounds a lot more believable than a talking mushroom telling you that an evil, large dragon/tortoise crossbreed stole the princess for some unknown reason. The world of Mushroom Kingdom is not consistent and they're not taking any effort to hide it. Sometimes we want to get immersed into a world* and that's just not possible when we're constantly reminded of the artificiality of the world we're seeing on the screen. Reusing plot devices is also very bad style (why does every Metroid game have to start with a distress call?), a done story is a done story, reviving a plot that was already complete can break believability. That's why movie sequels often suck (or why movies these days come with open endings), because the story was already complete and the conflict resolved, adding after completion often looks forced.

*= Yes, Bill, you don't but nobody cares about what YOU want, we're talking about normal people here

[PaLaDiN]

"(why does every Metroid game have to start with a distress call?)"

I don't think Metroid 1 did. Neither did Metroid Prime, if I remember... Samus was hunting down the rest of the Space Pirates.

[Hostile Creation]

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(why does every Metroid game have to start with a distress call?)

Not every game has, but she is a bounty hunter, so it makes sense that she would only go to places where she was told to go.
Also, I find the Mushroom Kingdom to be pretty immersive, as a game world.  It changes, sure, and they make no effort to hide that, but it's still the same place and has the same feel to it.
Besides, not including Nintendo, I can't think of a single franchise that has a consistent, immersive world.  Sonic?  No.  Final Fantasy?  No.  GTA?  No.  Hardly any games do, so complaining about Nintendo, who so far as I can tell does it best, is rather pointless.  They could improve, always room for improvement, but you're implying that someone else is better than they are, and I don't see anyone offhand.

[Bill Aurion]

"Yes, Bill, you don't but nobody cares about what YOU want, we're talking about normal people here"

Apparently Nintendo cares about what I want, considering I'm fine and dandy with the types of games they make...

[Ian Sane]

"Slight problem is Goldeneye was Rare-developed, and not Nintendo-developed."

I know.  Which is why it bugs me that Nintendo has made no effort to replace Rare.  It's not a coincidence that Nintendo is more franchise happy on the Gamecube than they were on the heavily Rare supported N64.

"Apparently Nintendo cares about what I want, considering I'm fine and dandy with the types of games they make..."

Maybe that's part of their problem.

[Bill Aurion]

Nope, it's your problem...

[Ian Sane]

Actually it is part of Nintendo's problem.  I'm not trying to single Bill out but hardcore fans who just gobble up all the franchise titles like him are not who Nintendo should to targeting.  Why?  Because they're such loyal fans that they're not going to reveal any problems.  They're going to buy whatever's out there no matter what provided the games are still high quality and they're still making Mario and Zelda games (which they always will).

Ideally the group to target is the on-the-fence guys, the guys who are Nintendo fans but have been losing patience with the same problems being unresolved.  These are the people who love Nintendo's games but want good third party support as well and want more variety.  They're the ideal target because they're like a bridge between the really hardcore fans and the more casual market.  If Nintendo appeals to that group they won't lose the hardcore fans but they'll also attract some casual fans.  It would allow them to keep their niche audience without being limited to a niche developer and a niche console maker.

Nintendo could release one Mario game, one Metroid game, one Pokemon game, and one Zelda game and release nothing else but completely new stuff for the Revolution and they could steal keep the really hardcore Nintendo fans.  I don't want them to be that selective but they could keep the core group with just that.

[Savior]

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Nintendo should find/pay even more of these kinds of developers

Problem is, when they do, they force them to use their franchises, like the Advance Wars Shooter..

but anyways, Nintendo doesnt have to outsource itself to make games that appeal to wider audiences. Prime Hunters is made In-House
 

[Bill Aurion]

"Problem is, when they do, they force them to use their franchises, like the Advance Wars Shooter.."

Advance Wars: Under Fire isn't a shooter...

"Prime Hunters is made In-House"

And so is Metroid Prime 2 now...

[Savior]

And so is Metroid Prime 2 now...


and hopefully it stays that way for quite some time...  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"(why does every Metroid game have to start with a distress call?)"

I don't think Metroid 1 did. Neither did Metroid Prime, if I remember... Samus was hunting down the rest of the Space Pirates.

Metroid Prime DOES start with some kind of distress call.  Samus responded to a "distress beacon," boarded Orpheon, and eventually found it it was Pirates who were in distress thanks to a MAJOR BUG PROBLEM.  So Samus is like "Oh cool, i don't like these guys, so i'll kill them all."  Then she got rapped up into bigger problems.

[Bill Aurion]

Is it that big of a deal that Samus responds to distress signals?  I mean, geez, it makes more sense than for her to decide to explore some random planet and WOW she's in some huge Metroid war or something...

[kennyb27]

Imagine if Metroid games started out without Samus responding to a distress call.  Exactly what would drive the story?  That's the bottom line in this case.

I'd have to agree with Hostile, Nintendo's games involve some of the most immersive gaming universes out of any games.  I'll pick up a PS2 game (like Ratchet and Clank) and I'll play it:  Sure it's fun, but I don't feel any need/want to keep going.  I end up playing for, say, 45-60 min and put the game back down because it doesn't interest me the way Nintendo's universes do.

And I know this point has been brought up (or at least I thought it has), but what I find really ironic is that IGN is the same site that praises and seems to fawn over games like Halo 2, GTA:SA, etc.  Other games that do exactly what this article seem to point out and criticize Nintendo for.  I mean, the review for GTA:SA gave it a 9.9 and called it the best PS2 game ever.  Now what kind of message does that send to other developers that look to Rockstar:
"Oh, if they can develop the same game 5 times and still get raving reviews like that, let's do that then"

And then as soon as Nintendo makes an incredible game such as Paper Mario 2, then they get jumped on because they don't have enough innovation, and when they do they just use old franchise mascots?  What the hell?

Sure the editorialist can pine for new games from Namco and Sega instead of co-developing Donkey Konga and F-Zero, and I respect that.  But, Nintendo is certainly providing, what I consider, a good equilibrium between new gameplay and old experienced that are revitalized.

[KDR_11k]

How about her being given a mission to explore an area or intercept some ship or something, stumbling across a weird energy source and going in to find it? At least it's not a distress call again.

Nintendo's franchises are a bit too old. A franchise that started three years ago is still considered fresher than one that started thirty years ago.