Author Topic: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant  (Read 33107 times)

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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2004, 01:23:15 PM »
 
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After 2002. Nintendo promised us new franchises... E3 2003 would be all about New Franchises ? yeah right...


And WarioWare.  And Animal Crossing.  It didn't say a million franchises.  I think three is pretty good.  Besides, second party games like Geist and Eternal Darkness came out (or are coming out), no?
Nor is it like Xbox and PS2 have a huge variety of great new franchises, either.  Splinter Cell 12, everybody, within two years of the original being released.  We're on the fifth GTA game.  The cleverly titled Driv3r?  And at least Nintendo adds something new to their old franchises (new graphics for Zelda, bongos for DK, FP for Metroid, microphone for the upcoming Mario Party 6, etc.), whereas most other games offer little or no improvement upon the older games, updated graphics and a few ignorable details aside.  GTA3 was a step up, albeit an obvious one, but why bother getting Vice City or GTA3 if you can get San Andreas?  No reason whatsoever.  But I would still get Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2 if I could afford both of them.
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Offline Savior

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2004, 01:26:07 PM »
Animal Crossing was an N64 Title
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2004, 01:35:23 PM »
Really now?  I never knew that.
Still: WarioWare, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, Geist, and whatever other games I couldn't think of offhand are hardly a lack of new franchises, and it's no less than most other gaming companies have put out this generation.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2004, 01:43:32 PM »
Geist is looking better than Killzone now.
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2004, 02:35:42 PM »
"After 2002. Nintendo promised us new franchises... E3 2003 would be all about New Franchises ? yeah right..."

I don't give a flying **** for new franchises, I want new ways to play games...(DS, hello?)
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Savior

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2004, 02:39:31 PM »
You might not care, but thats what Shiggy Promised us. He didnt deliver

Thats the basis for IGNs rant, and by god, they might be on to something  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2004, 02:55:18 PM »
Stop being so dense...1) Miyamoto was most likely misquoted...New franchises can easily mean a new style of game, and does NOT need to mean new characters...2)  What does complaining about a lack of "new franchises" have ANYTHING to do with anything besides it being bait for people like you to complain about?  I have not seen ANY reasoning behind Ninty NEEDING to make new franchises...As long as they can make an existing franchise/mascot game fresh there shouldn't be any squabbling whatsoever!  (Unless you like bitching, which it seems many like to do)
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Offline Savior

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2004, 03:58:46 PM »
Ill need to find the Miyamoto interview. But it soundedl like he meant New Games, New Franchises, not new ways to play.... either way Nintendos 2003 E3 Was terrible


I dont see whats the problem Bill. Do you disagree with IGN? Do you belive their editorial is some sort of senseless Nintendo bashing?

What they are saying makes sense...  Nintendo needs to stop depending on their old franchises to sell games......  

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(Iwata)We thought that for our second year (2002)with Nintendo GameCube and Game Boy Advancethat it was really important to focus on our strengths And that's why we see this really historical presence of Nintendo franchises at this year's show. And I think that it'd be difficult to repeat in the future. We've never seen a lineup like this. But at the same time it's extremely important for us to continue to put out new products and new ideas and new franchises Because, if we don't, there's really no future for us. And so that's going to be our main focus going forward.


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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2004, 04:13:54 PM »
"Do you belive their editorial is some sort of senseless Nintendo bashing?"

Considering that all CubeIGN does, yes...

"What they are saying makes sense... Nintendo needs to stop depending on their old franchises to sell games..."

It doesn't!  Nothing is ultimately gained from creating a new franchise...I will repeat, I will continue to support the use of old mascots in new games as long as they stay fresh and unique...While something like Mario Party may not fit in that category, a game like Donkey Kong Jungle Beat certainly does...

And please, IGN completely contradicted themselves considering just a few days ago they put up an article on how cool a ZELDA FIGHTER would be...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Savior

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2004, 04:20:09 PM »
but their intention was right... Nintendo needs a good exclusive fighter... It hasnt had one since Killer Instinct and the N64
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2004, 04:41:39 PM »
Yeah, you're right...I need a game where I can play as either Ganondorf or Link or Zelda and duke it o...Wait, I can do that in a game called Super Smash Brothers...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2004, 04:50:52 PM »
New franchises? What's the point? They'd play the same as Nintendo's other games but with dodgy new characters nobody will get used to.
"Hey everyone, here's Stinky the Moo Cow! Stinky can shoot milk at enemies"
"What's this crap?"

*Bails out*  

Offline Savior

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2004, 04:58:28 PM »
Sheesh you guys didnt get the point of the editorial...  I guess Nintendo as SNK 2 is fine and dandy
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Offline Infernal Monkey

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2004, 05:04:49 PM »
The point of the editorial was to turn posistive things Nintendo have done this generation around so they seem like bad things. The Internet is getting low on Nintendo related things to bitch about.

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Offline Mario

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2004, 05:09:03 PM »
So, you'd take a Platformer starring a generic salesman named bob, over a platformer starring Mario? If Nintendo had an entirely new innovative revolutionary platformer completed, but all they had to do was slap a character in, would you rather it be Bob the generic salesman, or Mario? Ok, so Nintendo goes with Mario. Now people like you completely over look the title just because it's "another mario game". Would having another character replacing Mario be all that great?

Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2004, 05:11:52 PM »
No, I quite understood what the editorial was about...CubeIGN (and/or the person who wrote the editorial) wants Nintendo to change the types of games they make...I do not want that...I don't want another company that makes their product around what is "cool."

And I am STILL waiting for evidence that new franchises are needed...What is wrong with making a completely new game idea and giving it an extra push with a known mascot?  Does that deter from the game in any way?  That really depends on what kind of game it is, but for games like Mario Tennis and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat it works and adds a charm that just wouldn't be there without them...Without the Mario franchise, Mario Tennis would be what?  Magical New Franchise Tennis?  Why?  It doesn't make any sense...There's no change in the game itself so why is it absolutely NECESSARY for new characters to be made only to then fall victim to obscurity due to lack of consumer recognition?  The only reason is because CubeIGN is a bunch of ignorant casual gamers that don't really care about Ninty's franchises in the first place...They want more "mature" games that would need new characters...They want Nintendo to change what they are...And I don't care for that at all...I'm happy with the way Ninty is thank you very much...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Savior

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2004, 05:32:22 PM »
Quote

They want Nintendo to change what they are..


Quote

It is obvious that Nintendo needs to knock on a few new doors. Its core franchises will always be important, but cannot be solely relied upon to reach out to new audiences. Nintendo needs to start developing new franchises for a new generation.



Yeah Sounds like the guy who  wrote the article hates Nintendo



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Nintendo has been working together with 3rd party developers much more than they probably ever have before


Something yo yourself like to point out Bill...

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If Nintendo doesn't start taking serious steps to attract fans of all genres, it is going to find itself fighting a continual uphill battle in the years to come.
.



Also very true.  Just compare the SNES with the Gamecube... The SNES had Fighting Games, Sports Games, RPGS, Multiple plataformers ect .... the Gamecube doesnt have enough of many genres.  Fighting games for example.



Must be lies right?  I coudl go on an on...  
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2004, 05:38:10 PM »
Seems to me the Gamecube has plenty of fighting games.  Bloody Roar, Soul Calibur 2, not to mention SSBM which kicks both their asses (standard fighting game or not; if you bitch about needing new franchises and turn around to say it's not a fighting game, your opinion drops to zero validity).  Those are the ones I have played, which is a lot, considering I do not enjoy fighting games and seldom play them.  Only fighter I played for N64 was Clayfighter.  SNES was Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat.  Oh wait Gamecube has Mortal Kombat, too.  Really, how many fighting games do you need?  It's got enough in that genre to satisfy someone who likes those games.  I've never met anyone who owned more than two or three fighting games, nor anyone who bought fighting games exclusively.
HC: Honourary Aussie<BR>Originally posted by: ThePerm<BR>
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2004, 05:42:22 PM »
And still my question hasn't been answered...Because there IS no answer...

"Yeah Sounds like the guy who wrote the article hates Nintendo"

I would have thought my extreme sarcasm would have been detected, but whatever...It IS obvious that IGN marks down Cube game scores because of silly things like "lack of skins in Mario Kart" and "lack of voiceacting in Paper Mario 2" which are hints of CubeIGN being incredibly ridiculous in terms of their nitpickiness...They also have a bad habit of talking about how good a game is in a preview and/or review and then giving it a mediocre score...Very unprofessional...

"Nintendo has been working together with 3rd party developers much more than they probably ever have before"

Um, this is fact...You really can't change fact around unless you outright lie... <_<

Where did I say I didn't agree with every little fact in the editorial?  As a WHOLE the editorial talks about Ninty's lack of innovation and new franchises which is hilarious in its own right...I do not agree with the main gist of the editorial that is making new franchises based on what the consumer wants, because the average consumer doesn't know jackshit about what makes a good game...And yes, Ninty IS and will continue to fight a hard battle against casual gamers, but I know there are others like me that will continue to support Ninty and their "kid-friendly" games as long as they continue to give them to us...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Darc Requiem

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2004, 06:25:56 PM »
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Originally posted by: BigJim
Quote

Originally posted by: Darc Requiem
I don't understand the view of "but hey they are still making a profit." Yes its the silver lining to darc cloud of Nintendo's situation but that doens't make the situation okay. Look at the software sales of Nintendo's top titles. Now imagine what they'd be if GC's sales were just double what they are now world wide. When you makes the worlds best titles and can't even post 2nd place in world wides sales, It shows that Nintendo as company is failing inspite of its quality software.


It isn't just that Nintendo is still profitable. They are the *most* profitable as well. Even with all of Sony's tens of millions of Playstations sold, they are moving a lot more money around, but the bottom like is still not as strong as Nintendo's.  Popularity is important, but profitability is what keeps a company alive. As "minimized" as Nintendo appears in the marketplace, of course there is room for a lot of improvement, but it's also hard to argue with success.

My feeling about them is, "OK, they've done good. Now do great."

I for one have been quite energized by Nintendo since E3. The DS has momentum. Zelda will likely sell a good load of new consoles in the system's late cycle, and if the DS is any hint at Revolution, I think they will have a system much more competitive than GameCube. I'm just one person, but I've been pretty hard to impress lately. I think the sleeping giant is waking up.

If anybody expects Nintendo to suddenly be a Sony ass-kicker tomorrow, they're going to be disappointed. There's simply not much point in trying to be so aggressive this late in GameCube's life. At this point it is all about the people looking for cheap fun. There's less profit to be had going forward than there was the last 3 years.

I think the "new" Nintendo is showing itself in the DS. They are going to try to fend off the PSP to the death to keep their monopoly. They also appear to be working on some aggressive plans for Revolution. It's certainly going to be pretty close in spec to Xbox2, and it will have a hell of a much more timely launch. The only question to me, really, is 3rd party support. They've been given general guidelines, but there probably won't be actual dev kits distributed to them until next year.


Yes but their userbase has been shrinking with each generation. Which means they sell less games, which mean they make less money. Do you think EA would sell more games than Nintendo if the GC userbase was comparable to the PS2? Most likely not. If they continue to let the userbase for their consoles decline they will eventually not be able to make a profit.

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Offline Savior

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2004, 06:56:47 PM »
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And still my question hasn't been answered...


How hard is it to understand? With new Franchises, you atract new gamers, not the Mario or Zelda fans like myself.

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Ninty's lack of innovation and new franchise


Well its true. Pikmin and Warioware...

and even Wario Ware is getting Milked, Wario Ware GC, Wario Ware DS, Wario Ware GBA 2... ect.

thats the problem.  
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2004, 07:18:51 PM »
"How hard is it to understand? With new Franchises, you atract new gamers, not the Mario or Zelda fans like myself. "

The kinds of games CubeIGN is wishing for are games that Ninty doesn't do...Say Ninty stays with their "kid-friendly" philosophy...How can a new franchise make a difference?  It can't, because it's still the same game, just with different characters...The kind of game that would benefit from new characters the most would be a game that deviates from the "Ninty-norm," and I don't see an inhouse game of that sort ever...

"and even Wario Ware is getting Milked, Wario Ware GC, Wario Ware DS, Wario Ware GBA 2... ect. "

What!?  Hello!  Each game is different except for WWGC...Wario Ware 2 uses a motion device and Wario Ware DS uses a stylus...COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MECHANISMS HERE...

"Ninty's lack of innovation and new franchise"

PLEASE STOP REPEATING YOURSELF, I'm sick of saying the same thing over and over...And apparently, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat lacks innovation...The DS lacks innovation...Four Swords Adventure lacks innovation...OH WAIT...The fact that the editorial seems to take "innovation" and "new franchise" to be the same thing is hilarious...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Mario

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RE: IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2004, 07:24:55 PM »
It's useless Bill, he's not listening, it's like trying to argue with an automatic bot programmed to say one thing over and over and not give any logical reasons why.

Offline Urkel

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2004, 08:29:36 PM »
Argh! Why do people continue to cite Warioware as an example of a series being milked? Each game has an entirely new form of input. It's going to be a very different experience between each game. I'm sure it also requires a lot of creativity to figure out how to create games that require using a touch screen, or motion sensor, so no lack of innovation there. What more can you possibly want them to do to these games that wouldn't be considered "milking" or "rehashing" them?

I want these games to exist. Warioware DS is going to play unlike any other game before. The fact that it happens to share the same title with a couple of GBA games does not make it any less fresh.

Sorry, I'm just a really huge Warioware fan. The next person that complains about there being too many WW games will answer to
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Offline PZ

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RE:IGN-Cube's on another Nintendo-rant
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2004, 04:20:40 AM »
I think youre missing the point of the article.  I think what he's trying to say is that Nintendo is still coming up with great gameplay ideas, but why do they have to stick their old franchises on them?  For instance:  The gameplay idea for Warioware is to have a lot of rapidfire, fun minigames.  Why did they need to slap the Wario name on it, rather than make up a whole new set of fun, original characters for the players to fall in love with?  Same thing with Donkey Konga: Nintendo wanted to make a rhythm game.  Why did they slap the Donkey Kong franchise on it, rather than making an original setting for the game?  We all know Nintendo has a lot of creative people and they certainly could have done it if they wanted to.  The problem is this:  By slapping their new games with old, familiar franchises, they guarantee that that game will sell a good number of copies.  However, they have gotten into a situation where they also guarantee that a lot of people will dismiss the game out of hand simply because it has the cute cuddly familiar Nintendo characters in it.  Therefore, Nintendo games are getting to the point that they only appeal to people who already like Nintendo, and we can see from the declining marketshare of the Nintendo home consoles over the past 10 years or so that the number of people who are Nintendo fans is slowly shrinking.  Now obviously, this does not apply to games like Zelda or Metroid.  If Nintendo wants to make a new platformer, then by all means, use Mario.  If they want to make a first person adventure game, then by all means, make it a Metroid one.  But Nintendo has to start thinking of ways to expand their fan base, and putting their big franchise names on games that have nothing to do with the franchise (like Mario Pinball) certainly isnt going to do the trick.