Author Topic: They should make a Zelda RPG.  (Read 37403 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #75 on: September 15, 2004, 07:17:20 AM »
He has a set goal, but the way to archieve that goal isn't strictly fixed. Link has no predetermined combat style (you can arrow everything or bomb or burn or whatever) and it'd be easy to let him specialize in different things.

Offline Draygaia

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #76 on: September 15, 2004, 07:24:46 AM »
We'd probably see a Zelda RPG if Link was popular like Mario.
www.chickenpatrol.com  Don't just eat meat.  Eat chicken.

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #77 on: September 15, 2004, 08:35:38 PM »
I have a feeling that Link is more popular than Mario.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #78 on: September 15, 2004, 09:32:30 PM »
This debate about blood in Zelda is just like the one dealing with whether or not your lightsaber should be able to do real damage in a Star Wars game.  I say leave the gore decisions up to the gamer.  If they are not into cutting down people with their saber then they won't, but we all know people are just gonna get GTA on it and start mowing innocents down with their force abilities.

I was surprised by the way Gannon died at the end of WW.  It was nice, but for them to have put blood in that scene after defering from it the whole game would have been distracting.  I cant wait to see the sword get pulled out.  

Another thing brought up is the issue of bombs, which I think should play a greater role in future Zelda games.  The original was based so heavily on searching for bushes to burn and passages to blow open.  Zelda's today seem to have lost that difficulty.  But the bombs definetly dont fit into any kind of reality scenerio the way they are.  They have to be redesigned at least.  This little kid in a skirt is carrying around a hundred bombs the size of his head.  Where?  Up his rear?  It is obvious to me that if they dont address these little issues then the whole realism thing will have been pointless.  I liked how in WW they were able to bring back enemies the way they once looked.  Like the jellies and the moblins.  I liked how they stuck to the whole cloud of smoke and really developed it as a special effect.  In a WW type game the boomerang and bombs are possible.  This is odd that we are discussing the abscence of realism in WW as a plus, while Myamato says he was concerned with portraying realism in the game so much that the characters actually act like concerned citizens in the game when they see this little kid at night.  

I think that if they are going to go with the whole cel shading/child Link scenerio again then they need to take advantage of Link being a child and make the game a much scarier world.  A child should be fearful when he makes his first kill.  A child should be cautious when sneaking around monsters in dark halls.  Imagine cel shading with doom3 level lighting effects.  You wont be able to see the beast making the noise ahead in the dark dungeon.  

The way WW sold reflects the duality of gamers.  They are too insecure to enjoy a game that plays on the fact that it is fantacy and is a game.  But they are afraid of games functioning like reality.  So really gamers like to pretend the game is real even though it obviously still functions as a game.  

Its like how everytime they try to translate Castlevania to 3d they f' it up.  From the beginning they are messing up thinking that they can put the perspective behind the character in a game whose primary gameplay focus is jumping.   Then they design all of the levels in the Castle flat.  We all remember that the Castlevanias in 2d had a lot of vertical rooms.  Also a lot of rooms that were open or long in the 2d games.  While the 3d one is just a bunch of square boring rooms focused on combat.  Then on top of that they cant make up their minds in either 2d or 3d whether they want all of their enemies to burst into flames or fall apart bleeding.  Castlevania is about monsters and vampires, and vampires drink blood.  My point is that they should either focus making the 3d games more like the art or make it more like reality.  Either way they will have taken a stance on the look of the game and thus the rules of the world it takes place in.  I dont want a realistic game in which the enemy bursts into flames when I hit him with an axe.  Think of it like this, if they were making a 2d Castlevania on GameCube, would you want it to look like a) Zelda Four Swords or b) Diablo 2.  In an age when we can have 2d graphics that look better than most 3d graphics do you prefer those that focus on the original watercolor 2d character designs or would you want photo realism.  There is no wrong answer, but my point is I dont want a game that rides the fence like a spineless democrat.  I want a liberal or a conservative, in the middle doesnt exist.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline Link_Up

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2004, 11:06:49 PM »
Well, about storing stuff like bombs and your boomerang, does anybody remember the Zelda-cartoons? In there, Link had this sort-of-like magical purse at his waist in wich he could store spoils like bombs, bows and yes, even the boomerang. Maybe it would be a nice idea for Link to receive a magic purse as soon as he starts his quest, maybe a prize for completing his training or something? That would also be some nice old-school stuff, since it refers toward the Cartoon-series.
Guess I'm the only guy from the Netherlands... Oh well, just as long as I get to discuss Zelda-thingies!

Offline MaleficentOgre

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2004, 11:08:50 PM »
Give link, one of the most badass heroes in video game history a purse.  I don't care how magical it is, he doesn't need a purse.  Zelda can use a purse not link.  

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2004, 02:19:45 AM »
Link_Up: Do you remember how in the games, when you find the bombs you are told you found a "Bomb pouch"? Especially in Windwaker you explicitely get those various bags, pouches, etc handed to you.

Offline MaleficentOgre

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #82 on: September 17, 2004, 06:24:27 AM »
yeah, a bomb bag and a spoils bag and a bait bag, but a boomerang purse.  Nah, doesn't work.  Link just has deep pockets.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2004, 07:33:55 AM »
"That would also be some nice old-school stuff, since it refers toward the Cartoon-series."

NOTHING from the cartoon series should be referenced in a Zelda game EVER.  The cartoon and Nintendo Power comics aren't canon and they suck.  If Link gets a magic purse I won't be giving Nintendo money from my magic wallet.

Who cares if it's unrealistic for Link to pull items out of thin air?  That's such a stupid thing to dwell on.  There are RPGs with serious moods and plotlines that allow you to carry all sorts of heavy armour and weapons in some indefined inventory.  It's convenient for the game design so let it be.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2004, 11:40:40 AM »
Yeah let us not talk of any more of these magic purses.  Its not The Fabulous Legend of Zelda.  Oh god now I have imagined four little Links running around with their swords unsheathed on a quest to redecorate the castle.  


I heard of Tim Burton talking about people that complained about the technicalities of, where did Edward get the ice at the end of Edward Scissor Hands.  The movie takes place in its own world.  What mattered was the story, the acting, the presentation, the music, the lighting, the camera work, the editing, and the plot.  It is sort of like one of the themes in Tim Burton's other movie Big Fish.  What mattered wasnt what happened.  What mattered was the way he told him that it happened and how he chose to remember it.  You can begin a story with the ending revealed for example because what matters isnt how complexly twisted your ending is, what matters is how it happens.  The story itself, the adventure, is much more valuable than the final destination.  

I just think that if a game is going into a realism scenerio that it should opperate with some kind of real life consequences to actions.  Im not complaining about the ice at the end of Tim Burton's movie.  But imagine if at the end Edward had stabed the jock and the jock fell over and faded away and they all just lived happily ever after.  Johny Depp saves the day, kills the baddy, no consequences, and gets the girl.  But that would ruin a great movie.

In Resident Evil noone complains because the whole virus zombie stuff is impossible.  They get caught up in the experience.  Resident Evil is like playing in one big Zelda dungeon.  RE differs from Zelda though in the fact that there is blood and there is also a limit on how much junk you can carry.  Why do they do this in RE?  Both games have brutal weapons, unbelievable monsters, and great production value.  RE is always trying to present itself as a realistic game.  It strives like no other series for realism and movie like qualities in the face of often the most commical of enemies (giant frogs and scorpions?).  Zelda has always gone in a different direction.  But now we see Zelda becoming a more realistic series.  I would like to see Zelda opperate realisticly if they are going to say blades will bleed.  This would mean that the health system could stay heart based but it would mean that damage taken will be damage shown.  It would mean that when you are outside you hear the wind and birds.  It would mean that you would be able to sneak not just based on programs operating on whether the enemies see you, but also whether they hear you crunching leaves as you sneak up behind them.  


This is a bit unrelated, but I was just thinking how my cousin always brings up how he wants to be able to change what Link is wearing like in other RPGs and I always tell him that it will take away from the charm of the character.  Sure Mickey Mouse for example can change cloths, but Mickey Mouse doesnt have his anatomy redone every time there is a new cartoon.  We must have something about Link that says Link.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline MaleficentOgre

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2004, 02:12:18 PM »
He can change clothes in ocarina, he even has shoe accesories.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2004, 07:37:17 PM »
Is everyone obsessed with turning Link into the first official homesexual leading male in a video game?

Seriously though, Link has always had a green tunic in every game.  I didnt like the multiple tunics in OoT.  

Plus the green will always make blood stains show up really well.

I want to add to my idea for a new child Link Legend of Zelda.  When he is sneaking past enemies he should not only automaticly look at them in fear, but he should also tremble.  His knees should get weak and shake as he clumsily sneaks by.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2004, 09:30:14 PM »
As Miyamoto said, Zelda follows its own reality. A Reality where monsters disappear into a cloud of smoke, a reality where a small child has the courage to fight evil (which, AFAIK, is the whole idea behind the LoZ series, a child has the courage to fight evil all alone) and the strength to carry heavy weapons without any obvious form of storage. Blood does not fit into a LoZ game, the only one who ever bleeds in a Zelda game is Ganondorf. The rest are just summoned creatures of some kind. Hell, Zelda is Zelda, not Lord of the Rings or Braindead.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2004, 09:27:04 AM »
What is AFAIK?

Legend of Zelda is based on Arthurian lore.  Farm boy finds a magic sword and becomes a hero.

You're exactly right KDR_11k the game does take place in its own world and it needs to follow that world's set of rules.  I like how the enemies turned into exstravagent clouds of swirling smoke in WW.  It took me back to the old days of 2d gaming in which there wasnt a splatter of blood but instead a puff of smoke with a treasure left behind.  Now days developers throw in all the buckets of blood and then still have the character's fade away when you turn your back on their bodies.  That's not realistic.  WW took advantage of its nostalgic look.  Now that the look is changing I want Nintendo to put the same effort into making the game seem real as they did into making WW seem like an old school game brought to life.  The games may never look photo realistic but it cannot be denied what they are trying to imply with the look of the game.  I'll tell you another thing that distracted me from playing WW was how the Zora's turned into bird people in the face of a world covered in water, and in only a couple of hundred years.  I was never into the whole races thing to begin with but I recall in LttP there were still some Zoras left.  What the hell?  

Most of the characters in the game bugged the crap out of me.  I think in reality they wouldn't have been worried about the little kid running around at night, they should have been trying to take advantage of him(not sexually).  I liked how Gannon wasnt as flattly drawn as in the past.  He almost seemed right as any good vilain should, because who wants a vilain who doesnt have an interesting motivation that though evil seems just.  You finally get to sympathize with him which makes him so much more threatening.  But Link was so flat it was bad.  I appreciate that they allow you to take control of Link as always and do what you want with him but there is nothing 'bad' that you can do.  You aren't really given any options like in KOTOR or GTA to terrorize the in game characters.  But what really bothered me about the portrayl of Link was that in the story your actions whether, lazy, mediocre, triumphant, or evil did not change the way he was percieved as a flat perfect hero to the other characters.  I believe that Link should develop a reputation so that the depth of the character you portray in your playing comes across in the story.  This way the developer doesnt have to worry about writting a character that is complex because you will do it for them.  In case you're still wondering why I don't want nonwavering heros in games then continue reading this paragraph.  When writing fiction one should never write a flat character.  If the character never makes mistakes then the character's life is going to be pretty boring.  Perfect characters just are not any fun.  Link is already, not perfect.  He is a weak hopeless child.  What is great about the story isnt how great Link is, it is how far he comes from what he was.  It is the character development that charms people when they play Zelda.  This is why I want the game to start off with a weak cowarding Link.  These complaints are not things that ruined WW, they are just things that I either expected from a Zelda game this generation or were made obvious to me by WW that they needed to be in any new Zelda games.  Zelda has always been at the forfront of character development in videogames until this generation.  OoT and LttP where standard setting games in which the character is supposed to grow up and become the hero before our eyes.  Where did the ambition go?  Did it sneak away from Nintendo and find its way into Microsoft's Fable?  Well Fable is not at the same level of refined quality as WW, but I respect its ambitious nature.  

Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #89 on: September 18, 2004, 10:26:36 AM »
You know, that sounds like you played a little too much Fable, all of this "let me be evil" stuff. You're not supposed to run around and cause mayhem in a Zelda game. You're supposed to save the world, not kill people you don't like. And hell, you never tried it, what do you think Link's chances were if he killed an NPC and suddently had to deal with the entire town out to kill him? Do you think he could seriously handle that (Ever tried stealing stuff in Link's Awakening?)? Besides, a role needs consistency. It's inconsistent to save the world but kill random people. Pen and paper RPGs give out penalties for acting against one's role, Zelda doesn't let you in first place. Besides, would you want a situation where you cannot finish the game because you killed an important NPC? That can happen in Gothic or Morrowind.

Link is a non-character, merely a vessel for the player to interact with the world (which is why his name is never enforced in any game). Same goes for Gordon Freeman. Link isn't supposed to develop any real character, he's supposed to be the avatar of the player. The less defined his role is, the more you can project into him. It is said that any form of art a human creates is indirectly a self-portrait (I REALLY hope this isn't true), with Link you're given the opportunity to make him your self portrait. I remember how angry I got when in an RPG the character I was supposed to identify with made a decision I fundamentally disagreed with. Link never does this, he never decides on his own.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #90 on: September 18, 2004, 11:05:52 AM »
I'd like to think it's the game player that does a little growing up via Link, regardless of Link specifically growing up in some observable way.


I DON'T KNOW

EDIT:  Whoa, kdr sorta beat me to it.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2004, 01:07:20 PM »
If someone decides to kill a NPC then they will have to pay for it with their reputation.  Some will refuse to believe the reputation, some will run, some will attack you when they see you.  I want to see many different personality traits in NPC.  I want to see AI.

I liked how in LttP you were deamed a criminal.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline Nephilim

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2004, 06:06:19 PM »
I dont think a badguy zelda would be cool

Link is a @sshole, zelda is a Innocent girl. Link kills ppl from some village, Zelda is turned on by his bad image
Zelda's dad is against them, but then Zelda is kidnapped by Ganon
Link normally wouldnt care but he has a "soft" spot for zelda
he beats ganon, Zelda kisses him. Zelda's dad says he will always be against them but accepts it
Link becomes a good guy, 3 weeks later cheats with some other chick

they make movies every year with that story line

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2004, 06:38:14 PM »
5 pages later and this is still a bad idea.  

Even worse with the mention of KOTOR.  THAT'S what you want?   Why don't they go ahead and just make a movie that you prompt with the A Button?

And obviously Link must be a shallow character since text-choice trees never pop up.

You know like

Will you save Zelda from THE GANNON?

[]Yes
[]Option that produces the same results as yes, just with different wording.
[]No.
[]Maybe, but I need monies.
[]Stupid ass pop culture reference that feels out of place.

I heard that Link is left handed because he is supposed to be the mirror image of the player, who is generally right-handed.  And Since Link is the avater of the player...  well, I think he's a deep character whose actions and atmoshere define him more than words and multiple choices ever can.  And if you think Link is shallow, I think that says more about you than it does Link.

And also against Zelda RPGs.  It takes Zelda long enough to come out over here without a plethora of text to translate.
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2004, 06:57:55 PM »
If you want a plot line then have a new Link and a new Gannon grow up together in the woods as friends.  They could be theves like a Robin Hood and Little John.  Perhaps they should face the Shadow King or a new enemy?  Why not a dragon?  Or a cenataur?  

I think it would be cool in Zelda if there were more battles involving greater numbers.  Sort of like Dynasty Warriors or Warcraft but involving armies of characters from the Legend of Zelda operating on the Zelda engine.  I like the new abilities in the new Zelda to fight on horseback.  

I would like to see the four sword in a console Zelda.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #95 on: September 22, 2004, 12:22:25 AM »
" If you want a plot line then have a new Link and a new Gannon grow up together in the woods as friends. They could be theves like a Robin Hood and Little John."

And then they fight each other with lazers.  And Then Goku shows up and goes "GRRAAAH KamehameCHEESE."  He doesn't actually use the kamehameha because he is actually Cyborg Goku in disguise.

"I think it would be cool in Zelda if there were more battles involving greater numbers. Sort of like Dynasty Warriors or Warcraft but involving armies of characters from the Legend of Zelda operating on the Zelda engine."

You mean like in Four Swords Adventures?

"I would like to see the four sword in a console Zelda."

You mean like in...
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline Wesisapie

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #96 on: September 22, 2004, 05:22:07 AM »
not interested in RPGs, zelda is as RPG as i go. and it is not even an rpg. i dont know why everyone complained about the celshading so much - i loved it. i never got into OoT because of the muddy depressing graphics, but WW made me so happy every time i played it because of the vibrant colours and cartoon style.
WW just felt 100% better to me. One day i will finish OoT though... one day.
blood in zelda - no thanks. i've been soaked in blood from 1000 different other games ive played, it really doesnt do anything special for me.
stats and  turne based battles wouldnt be zelda either. zelda, to me, was always about simplicity and grace.

one thing i cant help thinking though is that zelda rpg would turn into a golden sun clone.
Fin.

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2004, 06:20:39 AM »
"one thing i cant help thinking though is that zelda rpg would turn into a golden sun clone."

If you are dissing Golden Sun I will have to hurt you... -_-

(And if there was a Zelda RPG, I'd definitely want it in WW-style to separate it from other RPGs)
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline nemo_83

  • Dream Master
  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2004, 10:55:28 AM »
I see these custom character modes and Sim/Animal Crossing type characteristics popping up in RPGs and it bugs me because those things are just distractions.  What are you going to do after you get done playing dress up and interior designer?  Go pick flowers in the Hyrule field?

I've been reading about Fable and it seems like it is lacking the things I love most about Zelda.  Combat, camera, puzzles, bosses, and Link.  
Life is like a hurricane-- here in Duckburg

Offline RABicle

  • Used to be The Finisher
  • Score: 9
    • View Profile
    • Pietriots
RE: They should make a Zelda RPG.
« Reply #99 on: September 29, 2004, 10:12:59 PM »
Ok then here's my Zelda RPG.
First of all, no Link. I mean the series is called the Legend of Zelda, why should Link be involved everytime?
Secondly, game is not called Legend of Zelda. To make it comepletely clear that this game is not part of the regular Zelda games we won't give it the same title as the rest of the games. This game can be called Hyrule Story or something.

So here's how we make my Zelda RPG, we just make a regular RPG and set the whole thing in Hyrule. Your party will consist of Zoras, Gorons, Hylians and the like. No one will be related to any heros of time, or royal families. The whole game could exist simply as a device for Nintendo to expand the world of Zelda and provide some backstory. Flesh out their universe. The game could tell the story of the great war referred to in OOT/LttP. Or the flooding of Hyrule and your party are a just bunch of characters that are involved and go about kicking some arse and maybe accomplish something in the process.

You see this way, Nintendo create their own mainstream RPG franchise to compete with the Final Fantasys or whatever, create a deeper Zelda universe that might make the timeline conprehesible to stop people making fools of themselves theorising about it and it wont pissoff fanboys who argue over wethor or not NPCs should bleed when Link attacks them. Everyone happy?  
Pietriots  - Post ironic gaming log.