Topic: Wii Motion Sensing Precision

[xanrastafari]

So as new games come out, I've become increasingly worried about the motion sensing aspect of the wiimote.  While the infared pointer and the tilt seem to work rather well, basically every game involving hacking/slashing/stabbing or some other three-dimensional movement of the wiimote that's more complicated than just detecting movement, seems to have had a mass response of having imprecise controls.  I personally found this to be very true with Zelda, though that by no means screwed up the experience for me (though I had a damn hard time getting a vertical or horizontal slash to happen as i wanted it).  My limited experience with other games makes this seem true as well.  And I've seen it in tons of previews for e3 games.

So here's the question:  is the software recognition of gestures still in a primitive stage, and can we hope for awesome, precise gesturing in the future, or is the wiimote's motion sensing really just not that good?  It's an important question, and to me, makes the difference between the wii being gimmicky without a lot of long term potential (because, honestly, flailing and hoping it comes up with the right motion isn't immersive), and something that will change gaming.

[Requiem]

Well to be fair, Zelda's "waggle" feature was a replacement for a button, so that's not cumulative of what to expect by any means.

I think you should watch this. Here

[cubist]

Excellent question...

But who's going to answer it? Let me try to 'splain...

If you're referring to 3D motion, SSX Blur does a real good job for uber tricks...Therefore, I think it depends on the developer.  Madden is another game where it feels really comfortable on both the Wii Remote and the Nunchuk...especially with the power moves.

[Ceric]

I think its just hard to gauge what someone thinks is far and what is close.  Say I start a game and I'm playing near the front of the room and zoom is done with pushing the Wiimote forward and pulling back.  Now I pause it, get something to eat, and move back to the chairs that are farther away.  Should my game be perpetually zoomed out?  Should a little motion forward single for me to zoom in all the way?  Maybe something grander.  What seems to me to be far is mostly in relationship to how far my arm is extended.  It won't know that unless they ask for it in particular at the beginning of a game.  I see the moving towards and away type actions will always be problematic.

[Kairon]

One of the first games to use AILive, I believe, was Mortal Kombat: Armargeddon for the Wii!

There's ways to use the wiimote accelerometer information better. But it's not a straightforward proposition. For example, Gamasutra recently had an article explaining how lots and lots of math known as Kalman Filtering could improve the Wiimote's motion detection capabilities. What does that mean? I don't know! But I hope that developers out there do, because this new exciting world of 3D spatial controls is far more complicated than analog sticks!

[xanrastafari]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I think its just hard to gauge what someone thinks is far and what is close.  Say I start a game and I'm playing near the front of the room and zoom is done with pushing the Wiimote forward and pulling back.  Now I pause it, get something to eat, and move back to the chairs that are farther away.  Should my game be perpetually zoomed out?  Should a little motion forward single for me to zoom in all the way?  Maybe something grander.  What seems to me to be far is mostly in relationship to how far my arm is extended.  It won't know that unless they ask for it in particular at the beginning of a game.  I see the moving towards and away type actions will always be problematic.

I don't think you get how the wiimote works - the wii doesn't sense where you are in three dimensional space, it senses the movement of the wiimote.  So if you move the wiimote when paused, it doesn't matter, because the system won't register that as a zoom-in/zoom-out thing.  Instead it'll register movements with the accelerometers from wherever you're sitting/standing.

[xanrastafari]

Thanks for the info everyone - I'll watch that youtube video when I'm not at work, and thus can access streaming content.

[Spak-Spang]

Ok. I want that Balloon Pop game fleshed out and put on the Wii Ware service like tomorrow.  

There is some many cool things you can do with that demo.

Vs. Multplayer:

Attack players bases while sending missles to defend incoming attacks...Move Spaceships have number patterns that you have to predict to target.

And plenty more ideas.

[Ceric]

The Wii can use is accelorometers to see which way it is moving that is true.  It uses the IR bars position to tell where it is pointing.  Now what is not know is if it only measures 2D coordinates.  You can take the intensity of the IR light coming from the bar and use it to calculate your distance if that is measured.  I can't beleive it is all just the accelorometers when going towards and away from the tv.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
The Wii can use is accelorometers to see which way it is moving that is true.  It uses the IR bars position to tell where it is pointing.  Now what is not know is if it only measures 2D coordinates.  You can take the intensity of the IR light coming from the bar and use it to calculate your distance if that is measured.  I can't beleive it is all just the accelorometers when going towards and away from the tv.

It's nothing that complicated.  When you move closer to the IR bar, the lights look farther apart, and when you move away, they look closer together.  Still, the accelerometers are better for detecting movement in general.  I don't think gauging movement based on the IR bar should be used unless you want to detect when the remote returns to a certain distance.  So far, in the games I've played that use the IR sensor to detect forward and backward motion, it's been a little too unreliable.  Red Steel and DBZ:BT 2 come to mind.  That may just be launchitis, I admit.

[xanrastafari]

Quote
Originally posted by: Requiem
Well to be fair, Zelda's "waggle" feature was a replacement for a button, so that's not cumulative of what to expect by any means.

I think you should watch this. Here

Ok, that's neat.

[xanrastafari]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
One of the first games to use AILive, I believe, was Mortal Kombat: Armargeddon for the Wii!

There's ways to use the wiimote accelerometer information better. But it's not a straightforward proposition. For example, Gamasutra recently had an article explaining how lots and lots of math known as Kalman Filtering could improve the Wiimote's motion detection capabilities. What does that mean? I don't know! But I hope that developers out there do, because this new exciting world of 3D spatial controls is far more complicated than analog sticks!

Just looking over IGN's review of the game (I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet), it seems like this technology is actually pretty nifty - there biggest complaint being that it's for a fighter, which makes sense, because even a little bit of inaccuracy in a fighter can be a huge pain in the ass.

[Kairon]

What's important to know is that everything will have to be derived from the Wiimote and nunchuck detecting acceleration (and tilt in relation to gravity's constant acceleration) and the wiimote detecting it's rough distance from the sensor bar.

This is motion sensing, not 3D spatial sensing...

But then again, who knows what crazy stuff developers can do with that, or what crazy data they can extract! After all, just a D-pad was a major revolution, and shoulder buttons are standard now. We're definitely not just to virtual reality, but each baby step opens up more and more exciting avenues to explore and exploit!

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think Nintendo's next generation system, whatever that may be, will be something to really look forward too.

[Kairon]

Don't worry GP. My personal prediction is that MS wins next-gen by copying everything and actually innovating from within. Nintendo will have this one gen of glory... then be cast back in the shadows. Fanbois everywhere will cry out in anguish, and the "no company can rule three generations" rule will be broken.

[cubist]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Don't worry GP. My personal prediction is that MS wins next-gen by copying everything and actually innovating from within. Nintendo will have this one gen of glory... then be cast back in the shadows. Fanbois everywhere will cry out in anguish, and the "no company can rule three generations" rule will be broken.

You speak blasphemy Kairon...hehehe...but you're probably right.  I have a feeling that while all of us Nintendo fans are enjoying the times...MS is going to take the control...and Ken Lobb is going to go back to his Nintendo training manual to figure it all out.  

Ken Lobb...who feeds off of Nintendo table scraps...making old second parties...MS parties...

Mr. Ken Lobb...I will shoot you with my KLOBB from N64 Goldeneye...

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Don't worry GP. My personal prediction is that MS wins next-gen by copying everything and actually innovating from within. Nintendo will have this one gen of glory... then be cast back in the shadows. Fanbois everywhere will cry out in anguish, and the "no company can rule three generations" rule will be broken.

I really think Nintendo will have an advantage Next generation, they will already be accustomed to the technology and will have a generation head start on MS.