Topic: Super Mario Kart Hitting Virtual Console This Monday

[NWR_Neal]

Super Smash Bros. and Pilotwings are also set to come out this holiday season.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=20381

 Super Mario Kart is hitting the North American Virtual Console on November 23, according to GameSpot.    

The original Mario racing title, which is already out on Virtual Console in Japan, won't be the only Nintendo-published title on the service this holiday season as the first entry in the Super Smash Bros. series and Pilotwings series are also hitting Virtual Console soon.    

Super Smash Bros., which debuted in all of its four-player fighting game glory on the Nintendo 64 in 1999, is already out in Japan and Europe. The game was followed up by Super Smash Bros. Melee on GameCube in 2001 and Super Smash Bros. Brawl on Wii in 2008.    

Pilotwings, a Super Nintendo launch title that featured Mode 7 graphics, is already out in Europe. It spawned one sequel, Pilotwings 64, that was a part of the Nintendo 64 launch in 1996.    

Super Mario Kart will be 800 Wii Points ($8). The prices of the other two titles weren't confirmed, though one can assume that Pilotwings will most likely be 800 Wii Points ($8) and Super Smash Bros. will be 1,000 Wii Points ($10).

[broodwars]

Yay?  Is there any reason we couldn't get Pilotwings 64 rather than the original SNES game?

[NWR_insanolord]

Is there any reason we couldn't get Yoshi's Island rather than any/all of them?

[broodwars]

Is there any reason we couldn't get Yoshi's Island rather than any/all of them?

Indeed, especially since Smash Bros. is redundant on the VC, though for some reason some people here want it.

[Luigi Dude]

Is there any reason we couldn't get Yoshi's Island rather than any/all of them?

Because Nintendo hasn't figured out how to get the FX chip to emulate right on the Virtual Console yet.  This is why the original Star Fox and Stunt Race FX haven't appeared either.

[D_Average]

This better be true.

[NWR_insanolord]

Is there any reason we couldn't get Yoshi's Island rather than any/all of them?

Because Nintendo hasn't figured out how to get the FX chip to emulate right on the Virtual Console yet.  This is why the original Star Fox and Stunt Race FX haven't appeared either.

I've played Yoshi's Island (and Star Fox and Stunt Race FX) emulated on the Wii and it worked just fine. If a general purpose homebrew emulator can handle the game I don't see why Nintendo would have so much trouble getting it to run.

[RABicle]

Yay?  Is there any reason we couldn't get Pilotwings 64 rather than the original SNES game?

Yeah the SNES one is pretty shitty, crap like Password save and crap. The N64 one is where it's at.

[BeautifulShy]

Well I plan on getting all of these games.

[Stratos]

I'm pretty sure the FX chip issue rumor got debunked but I cannot remember the source.

I am happy the SNES Pilotwings is finally coming. I already own the N64 one and only ever rented the SNES one. Password save won't be an issue with the magic of Save State on Wii

[smallsharkbigbite]

Yay?  Is there any reason we couldn't get Pilotwings 64 rather than the original SNES game?

Yeah the SNES one is pretty ****ty, crap like Password save and crap. The N64 one is where it's at.

VC automatically saves at any spot.  Not sure why password saves matter on VC.  Or are their other reasons for the 64 version?  I really haven't played either. 

Back to topic, I own the SNES Mario Kart, but I am still planning on picking this up.  I know it will look like crap on my TV, but I'm still not sure if that's my favorite Mario Kart game released. 

[TJ Spyke]

VC doesn't "save" anything, it basically just freezes where you are. It's like hitting the pause button on your DVD player, you're not actually saving your spot on the disc. The Nintendo 64 version is usually considered the better game, that's his comment (I think).

I don't know if I ever played Super Mario Kart, I don't think I played a MK game until Mario Kart 64.

It's about time, especially for Super Smash Bros. Japan has had it since January and PAL regions have had it since April. I remember when Nintendo used to release N64 in all regions within a 1-week period. I would like to play it again.

Not related to Nintendo per se, but where is Contra? We've gotten 2 of it's sequels (Super C for the NES and Contra III: The Alien Wars for SNES), but not the original.

[AV]

they should release all those games this week.

Just imagine the internet exploding in glee:

Super Mario Kart
Super Smash Brothers
Pilotwings
&
Castlevania Rebirth
Cave Story

I would love to see how the internet explodes after this update. Nintendo can do this.

[AV]

i'm not a fan of the fx 2d style of mario kart. I just think the level design is boring i miss the hills and valleys of the '3d' mario kart games like 64 and so forth.

[NWR_Lindy]

i'm not a fan of the fx 2d style of mario kart. I just think the level design is boring i miss the hills and valleys of the '3d' mario kart games like 64 and so forth.

Perma-banned.

[EasyCure]

don't tease us like that lindy

while hearing all these big games ar ecoming is good news, i'm actually not excited. I've got original smash on my 64 and doubt that i'll want to download this version; the only plus about it being on the VC is that i wont have ot put up with the horribly worn out sticks on my 64 pads but other than that.. why would i want to play it over melee and brawl?

as for mario kart, i've tried replaying this on the snes before and it just doesnt hold up well. they're an eyessore, and i don't mean that figuratively as if the designs were bad, i mean they really are an eyesore. that mode seven stuff gives me a headache now. I just can't..

pilotwings; i'll be honest here, i've never played it. i rented the sequel once and i didnt see what the big deal was about.

[yoshi1001]

I still think the problem with Pilotwings 64 is the real-world buildings in the Little States area-there might be some sort of legal issue there.

SMK probably has the best battle mode of any Mario Kart, but for the most part it's been outclassed by later games in the series.

[EasyCure]

actually thats a great point; SMK's battle mode was beastily... only a 4player match in small arenas in SMK64 could come close to how insanely awesome battle mode was in the original.

[Pale]

I could not be more excited for Super Mario Kart... it is the best Mario Kart after all.

[D_Average]

Mario Kart 64 has the best multi player racing experience, but Super Mario Kart has the best battle mode of them all.  No contest.

[Minsc]

Awesome, my cousin has been waiting for Super Mario Kart.  Especially since he can't find his original copy.

[Mop it up]

Indeed, especially since Smash Bros. is redundant on the VC, though for some reason some people here want it.

People have different tastes. I think SSBBrawl is a terrible game, I much prefer the original Smash Brothers over it. I'm also wondering if the slowdown issues will be fixed on the VC, which they should be in theory but... we'll see.

Unless you've got the nostalgia bug, Super Mario Kart is one of those games that was good for its time but not worth playing today, along the lines of Bases Loaded and Tecmo Bowl.

[D_Average]

I'm not a huge Smash fan, but I'm curious, whats the general consensus here as to what version is the best?  I remember my roommates in college hating Melee after buying a Cube just to play it and sticking to the N64 version for about a decade.

[Mop it up]

It's difficult to say, actually. The three games are actually quite different in gameplay, features, and style. From what I've seen on the Internet, people seem pretty evenly split between Melee and Brawl. The tournament crowd much prefers Melee, no question there, but the more casual players (such as myself) could go either way. I guess it depends on what you want out of the game. Brawl is more simplified and random, so Melee would be better if you're more competitive. The two games have vastly different art styles as well.

There don't seem to be very many people who prefer the first. Although I prefer Melee, I still like the original Smash Brothers. Because of its smaller character roster, it is the most balanced of the three. I also think it has the best pacing, and the best stages too.

[TJ Spyke]

Your friends are odd, Melee is leagues better than the original Smash and is generally considered one of the best fighting games for any system. People seem to be divided on whether Melee or Brawl is the best one. I love Brawl, but I was pissed that they made Samus so much weaker since she had been my favorite in the first 2 games (in Melee alone I logged over 400 hours playing as Samus). Both Melee and Brawl are superior to the original and both are great fighting games. The original game does have a unique art style though that I loved.

As for Mop's comment on tournaments, that is probably because Melee has been out for so long. As time goes by, I think it's a safe bet that Brawl will take over.

[Mop it up]

As for Mop's comment on tournaments, that is probably because Melee has been out for so long. As time goes by, I think it's a safe bet that Brawl will take over.

Doubtful. As I said, the game is more simple and random, which makes it less suitable for tournaments.

[famicomplicated]

Let's rate our favourite MK and Smash games!

As for me, possibly controversial choices, but here we go:

1. Super Mario Kart (SNES)
2. Super Mario Kart DS
3. Mario Kart Wii
4. Mario Kart: Super Circuit (GBA)
5. Super Mario Kart 64
6. Mario Kart: Double Dash (GC)

1. Smash Bros Melee
2. Smash Bros Brawl
3. Smash Bros 64 (Third, but I still love it)

[broodwars]

Let's rate our favourite MK and Smash games!

1.  Super Mario Kart DS.
2.  Super Mario Kart 64.
3.  Super Mario Kart.
4.  Mario Kart Wii.
5.  Mario Kart Double Dash

Never played the GBA Mario Kart, though I was tempted to put it at #5 and Double Dash at #6 regardless just due to how horrible Double Dash was.

1.  Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
2.  Super Smash Bros. Melee
3.  Super Smash Bros.

[Stratos]

Hmm...

1 Mario Kart 64
2 Double Dash
3 Wii
4 DS
5 Super

1 Melee
2 Brawl
3 Classic

All of them are enjoyable and really close in my opinion of them but my #1s are unquestionably #1 in my book. I like Wii for the online but I liked Double Dash's multiplayer better. Co-op was awesome and playing two player grand prix should never have been removed in the Wii one.

[KDR_11k]

1. Super Mario Kart
10. Everything with a blue shell

1. Melee
2. Brawl (the Subspace Emissary is garbage even compared to the fairly weak Adventure mode in Melee)

[Pale]

Melee is a much better tournament game, because it doesn't have the oddities like tripping and smash balls to confuse people.

Overall though, I think Brawl is the best pure multiplayer game.  If you aren't SERIOUS about smash, then Brawl is the way to go.


Snaking ruined Mario Kart DS for me... Obscene rubber banding ruined Mario Kart 64 for me... so in my opinion it goes...

Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart Wii
Mario Kart Double Dash
Everything Else.

[Mop it up]

playing two player grand prix should never have been removed in the Wii one.

In the vs. mode of Mario Kart Wii you can play a series of 4 races where the points are all added together to determine the overall placings. How is that different than the 2-player GPs?

Overall though, I think Brawl is the best pure multiplayer game.  If you aren't SERIOUS about smash, then Brawl is the way to go.

It's funny you say that, as Brawl has a much more serious tone than Melee. I fit nowhere near the definition of a "serious" or competitive player and not only do I prefer Melee, but everyone I know who has played both games (which, of course, is a tiny sample: seven people) agrees that Melee is more focused and lighthearted than Brawl.

Anyways, I've never been a fan of Mario Kart, and Mario Kart Wii is the only one I really like. Mostly it is because of the controls; they are so slippery and imprecise in all of the games, and that was finally corrected in Mario Kart Wii. It also has the biggest selection of characters and vehicles, most imaginative courses, and the most fun items to use.

Mario Kart Wii
Mario Kart Double Dash!!
Mario Kart 64
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart Advance

That's one series that got better with each release.

As for Smash Brothers:
Super Smash Brothers Melee
Super Smash Brothers
Wii Play
Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[D_Average]

I'm more of a Kart guy so here goes....

1.  Super Mario Kart 64.
2.  Super Mario Kart.
3.  Mario Kart Wii.
4.  Super Mario Kart DS.
5.  Mario Kart: Super Circuit
6. Mario Kart Double Dash

Is there a thread on here somewhere for Mario game ratings?  Seems like there would be by now...

[Stratos]

playing two player grand prix should never have been removed in the Wii one.

In the vs. mode of Mario Kart Wii you can play a series of 4 races where the points are all added together to determine the overall placings. How is that different than the 2-player GPs?

That doesn't give you the trophies. If you get the game and have a friend sibling with you you cannot dive into unlocking things. I rarely play Mario Kart alone and not allowing you play 2-player on the GP was one of the things that killed my interest in the game initially.

Also, I never had an issue with this snaking people referred to. I don't think I snaked either.

[Mop it up]

I didn't know you could do that in Mario Kart 64 and Double Dash!!. I did think it was kind of strange how you can't unlock anything by playing the multiplayer mode of a multiplayer-focused game, though you can unlock most of the characters and vehicles by racking up wins on Wi-Fi.

[Stratos]

It's just dishartening when you want to start unlocking stuff with a buddy and you can only unlock stuff while playing solo.

Some of the past DDR games had the same issue where you could only unlock more songs by playing this ridiculous story mode.

[Mop it up]

You can play W-Fi with a guest to rack up wins. I guess it isn't the same as playing the GPs (nor would it be nearly as quickly) but it is better than nothing.

[Stratos]

If MK Wii had the 'All Track Marathon GPs' like in Double Dash I would have never beaten them because it was playing them with my little sister that got me to finish them.

[Mop it up]

Yeah, that All Cup Tour was quite a pain, it took at least an hour to get through it. Mario Kart Wii has twice the tracks so it would be even more of a daunting task. Though I remember not long after I got the game, my sister, my friend, and her boyfriend all got together and set the options to play all 32 tracks in a random order. It took us over two hours (and over two drinks each...) to finish it, and it was a great time.

[Caterkiller]

Do any of you guys actually play in Brawl competitively? it can be done even on line.

Brawl has more participation than Melee does at tournaments now'a days. But because they play very differently in some cases, lots of people don't want to drop melee cause they can still win "big" bucks.

In tournaments, no items, no smash balls. The main stages that can be used are Battle field, Final Destination, Yoshi's island, Smash Ville, and Lylate Cruise. Then there are counter picks which have a bit more in the way of randomness like Jungle Japes or Picto Chat, but levels like big blue, that awful porky stage and more are not included.

Tripping does make things somewhat random but I can assure that when the big boys play tripping is almost a nonfactor. Only time tripping plays a big role and happens often is with characters like Diddy, and Donkey Kong where tripping is a valuable part of their strategy and their moves causes the opponents propability of tripping to go up.

And though Metaknight and Snake are just too good for words, the roster as a whole is more balanced then melee. If you took just those 2 characters out, the game would be waaaay more balanced.

[Mop it up]

Playing competitively is boring because the tournament rules make the game really dull. Smash Brothers wasn't designed for tournament play so I'm not going to bother with that.

[NWR_pap64]

Here's how I see the SSB saga. The original SSB was never meant to be taken seriously as a game. It was a fan service party fighting game created to cash in on the success of four player games like Mario Kart 64 and Mario Party. It wasn't till fans figured out that underneath all the silly fan service there was a great game, and thus started seeing more and a more as a serious multiplayer game.

Then came Melee and things started getting more serious. There were more rules, more options, more characters, more stages and more features, many of them catering towards the core fanbase. Finally, Brawl was more than just a party fighting game, it became an event with its own story and mythos.

So its easy to understand why fans can't stand the original SSB: the game doesn't take itself as seriously as its successors and thus isn't as refined. It's not core friendly so to speak.

I think the Mario Kart franchise hasn't changed much. It still remains a multiplayer hectic game that knows that its all about fun. Its the fans that take it very seriously to the point where they want to change the rules.

[MegaByte]

I don't think SSB was created for that purpose.  Yes, the mascot aspect was tacked on and made an essential part of the series, but it was originally just an experimental fighting polygon game that Sakurai came up with (see his Iwata Asks).

I agree that Mario Kart hasn't changed much since MK64.  But SMK was a different beast that valued skill and precision over equalizing factors, not trying to be a "gateway" game.

[Caterkiller]

I remember reading that Sakurai didn't want the game to become competetive, which is why he said he didn't want any online rankings. 

But as far as I can tell the Smash Fans like the original so much, because it was the most balanced because of the fewer characters and slower pace.

[NWR_Neal]

I'll bite on this.

Mario Kart 64
Mario Kart Wii
Super Mario Kart
Mario Kart Double Dash
Mario Kart DS
Mario Kart Super Circuit

I enjoy every game, but I really prefer console MKart over handheld ones.

And...

Brawl
Melee
64

[broodwars]

People who play Smash Bros. as a serious tournament fighting game scare me.  It's like they completely miss the point of the entire franchise, as random chaos is all part of the game.

[NWR_pap64]

I don't think SSB was created for that purpose.  Yes, the mascot aspect was tacked on and made an essential part of the series, but it was originally just an experimental fighting polygon game that Sakurai came up with (see his Iwata Asks).

I agree that Mario Kart hasn't changed much since MK64.  But SMK was a different beast that valued skill and precision over equalizing factors, not trying to be a "gateway" game.

Yeah, I remember that Iwata asks segment, and forgot to mention it in my reply.

I think Mario Kart has always been a gateway game. I remember when I was a kid I rented Super Mario Kart for the weekend. I was the first to play it and enjoyed it. Then my sister recognized the Mario characters and loved the game. My friends, who at the time were obsessed with "mature" games like Street Fighter and such, loved the game. Even my parents got into the game.

The biggest proof that the original game was meant to be a gateway game was the Mario name. At the time, Mario was popular with everyone, not just Nintendo fans. The Mario name assured that people would try out Super Mario Kart because the premise was both unique and starred familiar characters.

What the series has mainly done was add more modes and features so that each iteration fixes the issues the previous game had while still being fun and accessible to everybody. Mario Kart DS and Wii are the most accessible of the bunch, and they are also the most popular entries at the moment.

[MegaByte]

I don't think they really had the gateway concept as such back then, so I'm not sure if it was created to be a gateway game, but it certainly succeeded as such.  Since then, Nintendo has tried to make it more "accessible."  But it was at the expense of actual racing and competition.  And I'm not really sure what happened to battle modes... I can understand (but don't agree with) the motivation behind Blue Shells and the like.  But I don't understand how they've failed so much with battle modes, which was almost certainly played more than the GP mode in the earlier games (at least in multiplayer settings).

[NWR_pap64]

That's because back then, people either played games or they didn't. Gaming was a tad more social. It wasn't till the 64 bit era in which gaming became more focused on its fans than on the whole mainstream audience (save for a few games like Tomb Raider and GTA) to the point where it was seen as a niche activity. It wasn't till just recently where the divide was made clearer by Nintendo's own efforts.

[NWR_insanolord]

Mario Kart DS isn't getting enough love in this game. It has some of the best tracks, easily the best battle mode, and is absolutely amazing when you've got people to play the local multiplayer with who don't snake. I've been thinking of buying a second copy of the game solely so someone can use my old DS with it for multiplayer.

[Mop it up]

That's because back then, people either played games or they didn't. Gaming was a tad more social.

Back in the day the "hardcore" gamers played games on the PC and viewed the NES as over-simplifying gaming and destroying it. It's amazing how much the Wii parallels the NES...

[MegaByte]

I don't think that's true at all.  At the time, the NES surpassed almost all PC gaming.  Many PC games tried their best to copy NES games, but usually didn't do too well, often due to lack of dedicated gaming-oriented hardware.  "Hardcore" PC gaming didn't come about until the 3D era.

[Mop it up]

That's what I've heard from some people who were still adults back in that time. We probably don't hear about it because there was no Internet back then.

[D_Average]

Mario Kart DS isn't getting enough love in this game. It has some of the best tracks, easily the best battle mode, and is absolutely amazing when you've got people to play the local multiplayer with who don't snake. I've been thinking of buying a second copy of the game solely so someone can use my old DS with it for multiplayer.

Its definitely an awesome game, but I'm just not much into the portable seen, so I'll take the console versions if I have the options.

[Pale]

I must be the only one that played Mario Kart 64 mostly in single player... I don't see how a human being can call that a good game with the rubber banding as obscene and frustrating as it was. =P

When the single player game devolves into doing Time Trials, which in my experience is how most people played 64 by themselves, it just shows how BADLY they screwed up the AI racers.


I also don't understand how so many people say playing Smash in a competitive way "misses the point".  It's obvious that the designers meant it as such as they included a tournament mode and the ability to drasticly adjust the settings.  Smash was meant to be a game that can be played either way... no reason to hate on the other side.

[broodwars]

I also don't understand how so many people say playing Smash in a competitive way "misses the point".  It's obvious that the designers meant it as such as they included a tournament mode and the ability to drasticly adjust the settings.  Smash was meant to be a game that can be played either way... no reason to hate on the other side.

That Sakurai was kind enough to give players the option doesn't mean that's how the designers meant the game to be played.  All those options are turned on by default for a reason, after all.  Besides, the worst parts of Brawl are those that try to just use the core fighting engine (Subspace Emissary) for simple platforming and fighting, and they fail miserably due to intentionally floaty controls (among many other problems with that mode).

To me, Smash Bros. is boring when you strip the game down to just the fighting engine and remove the chaos that is meant to be constantly erupting on the battlefield.

[vudu]

I must be the only one that played Mario Kart 64 mostly in single player... I don't see how a human being can call that a good game with the rubber banding as obscene and frustrating as it was. =P

Mario Kart 64 had a single-player mode?

[Stratos]

I also don't understand how so many people say playing Smash in a competitive way "misses the point".  It's obvious that the designers meant it as such as they included a tournament mode and the ability to drasticly adjust the settings.  Smash was meant to be a game that can be played either way... no reason to hate on the other side.

That Sakurai was kind enough to give players the option doesn't mean that's how the designers meant the game to be played.  All those options are turned on by default for a reason, after all.  Besides, the worst parts of Brawl are those that try to just use the core fighting engine (Subspace Emissary) for simple platforming and fighting, and they fail miserably due to intentionally floaty controls (among many other problems with that mode).

To me, Smash Bros. is boring when you strip the game down to just the fighting engine and remove the chaos that is meant to be constantly erupting on the battlefield.

It always bugged me how tourney people had to remove half of the game's elements to play. It felt like they were engineering the game to give them the best advantage they could have. Maybe it is also due to several bad experiences I had in Real Life where people freaked out and called the game unfair because of random little things. There was one guy I knew who basically ruined my game parties because no one else wanted to change the game setting to the way he played.

Part of skill, in my opinion, is reacting to things that the environment throws at you and overcoming those changes.

[Halbred]

I have fond memories of Super Mario Kart, and I still have my SNES cart. I do remember that, going back to it last year, I was annoyed by the split-screen single-player.

That reminds me...I don't know what happened to my N64 copy of Mario Kart 64. I may have to buy it on the VC.

[Mop it up]

It always bugged me how tourney people had to remove half of the game's elements to play. It felt like they were engineering the game to give them the best advantage they could have.

They attempt to remove all possible elements of chance so that the winner is determined by skill and skill alone. They may have left in "tournament play" options as they knew there'd still be a small number of people who wanted to play it like a traditional fighter, but the whole idea of the game was to create a lighthearted 4-player fighting game with lots of mayhem that doesn't take itself seriously. Brawl kind of lost sight of that though, as it's clear that it was created with an entirely different artistic vision.

[D_Average]

There was a guy on Survivor one year who played Smash as his career. Not a bad way to make a living. I think his nam was Ken.

[Arbok]

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument. This goes both ways. Tournament players, and those who criticize the tournament players. Neither is innocent, and there are cases in both where some are close minded beyond belief.

Some people like to play with no items on Final Destination? Awesome.
Some people like to play with all items on PictoChat? Groovy.
Some people like to play with only Bombombs on Smashville? Nice.

Why the heck does it matter how some enjoy the game? The futility of this argument knows no bounds. And I speak from someone who enjoys all of the above mentioned methods of play and many more. The game is versatile, yet some treat that as a personal affront.

[Mop it up]

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument.

It was meant to be played the way Sakurai said it was meant to be played, though he put in some other options for those uptight people who want to play a different way. That doesn't mean people can't play it however they want, but then again that's true of most games.

[Stratos]

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument. This goes both ways. Tournament players, and those who criticize the tournament players. Neither is innocent, and there are cases in both where some are close minded beyond belief.

Some people like to play with no items on Final Destination? Awesome.
Some people like to play with all items on PictoChat? Groovy.
Some people like to play with only Bombombs on Smashville? Nice.

Why the heck does it matter how some enjoy the game? The futility of this argument knows no bounds. And I speak from someone who enjoys all of the above mentioned methods of play and many more. The game is versatile, yet some treat that as a personal affront.

I don't mind playing the game with different setting and using different rules. What I have an issue with are the people who refuse to play if it isn't 'their way' and even end up causing a scene in some worst case scenarios.

One person pretty much killed off my college RTS LAN group because he had an issue with people destroying his command center in StarCraft before other buildings and another guy very nearly punched me when I rushed him because after I beat him he said that 'only wimps and noobs rush'. Nobody wanted to play against other humans again after that and all we did was play 'human vs AI comp stomp' missions. W.T.F.

I understand people preferring different ways of playing, but I've run into so many people who appear to more or less be upset that they were beaten with a certain item/trick/tactic that it's very nearly turned me off from those 'rule alterations' in general.

[KDR_11k]

Yeah. I remember one idiot claiming I killed his Emperor tank spam in C&C Generals with my minigunners and hence the Infantry General is OP (yeah, no way it was that gigantic pile of tank hunters I had fielded, right?).

[Pale]

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument.

It was meant to be played the way Sakurai said it was meant to be played, though he put in some other options for those uptight people who want to play a different way. That doesn't mean people can't play it however they want, but then again that's true of most games.

I'm sorry, but I think you have it wrong.  It was meant to be played EITHER way, and that's why he put those options in. /sigh

[Mop it up]

I understand people preferring different ways of playing, but I've run into so many people who appear to more or less be upset that they were beaten with a certain item/trick/tactic that it's very nearly turned me off from those 'rule alterations' in general.

That's kind of sad actually. When I played a game like Smash Brothers with a group of people, we would just take turns deciding the rules for each match and cycle through everyone. That way everybody got a chance to play the game using the options they wanted to use.

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument.

It was meant to be played the way Sakurai said it was meant to be played, though he put in some other options for those uptight people who want to play a different way. That doesn't mean people can't play it however they want, but then again that's true of most games.

I'm sorry, but I think you have it wrong.  It was meant to be played EITHER way, and that's why he put those options in. /sigh

It CAN be played either way, but it was meant to be played in the way Sakurai outlined. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[King of Twitch]

Super Mario Kart discussion begins here
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[Mop it up]

I completed Super Mario Kart many years ago when I was on a Super NES spree. At the time I had played only Mario Kart 64 which also has pretty slippery control so I didn't have much trouble adjusting. I haven't played it since that time, other than once when I created a retro track comparison video for Mario Kart Wii. I don't know how I could ever tolerate the game.

The thing that makes Super Mario Kart challenging is the poor control, after you figure out how it works then the game isn't difficult. This is a sign of one of two things:

A) Poor game design
B) Poor aging

In this case I think it is B. Super Mario Kart used a lot of processing power to run so they couldn't give it controls that are very tight.

[KDR_11k]

I never beat any 100cc cup but I didn't figure out that the shoulder buttons caused drifts either, got my copy from a flea market and it didn't come with a manual. We only played the Special Cup through the use of cheats.

[D_Average]

From what I remember winning on150cc was tougher in this game than 64. I think I'll pick it up tonight.

[BeautifulShy]

Oh 150cx is way harder then the same difficulty in MK64.

It took me many tries before I could beat 150cc in SMK. I think I barely got first on 150cc Special Cup.

As some of you might be aware there are codes to this game.

When selecting a racer press Y and A and that will make you shrink.

As KDR pointed out you can play the Special Cup in Time Trails.
Here is how it is done.
Go to timetrails and pick your character and on the stage screen move over to Mushroom Cup and highlight it and press L,R,L,R,L,L,R,R,A that should open Special Cup so you can practice the stages.
L and R refers to the shoulder buttons.

[Pale]

I hate how often Smash Bros discussion turns to a "the way it was meant to be played" argument.

It was meant to be played the way Sakurai said it was meant to be played, though he put in some other options for those uptight people who want to play a different way. That doesn't mean people can't play it however they want, but then again that's true of most games.

I'm sorry, but I think you have it wrong.  It was meant to be played EITHER way, and that's why he put those options in. /sigh

It CAN be played either way, but it was meant to be played in the way Sakurai outlined. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I guess it depends on your point of view of what "meant to be played" means.  While I don't have any evidence of what Sakurai's opinion of the game is, I'll take your word for it that you read it somewhere... just because he may prefer to play it one way, the sheer fact that they put the options in means they acknowledge that that is not the only way people like to play.

So again, it's meant to be played either way.

[vudu]

What part of Super Mario Kart discussion begins here didn't you understand? 

Truthfully, I hate SMK.  Hate hate hate hate hate.  Can't stand it.  I hate the controls.  I hate the coins.  I hate jumping.  I think battle mode is boring.

I played MK64 first so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Mop it up]

I guess it depends on your point of view of what "meant to be played" means.  While I don't have any evidence of what Sakurai's opinion of the game is, I'll take your word for it that you read it somewhere... just because he may prefer to play it one way, the sheer fact that they put the options in means they acknowledge that that is not the only way people like to play.

So again, it's meant to be played either way.

I think that Broodwars said it best:

That Sakurai was kind enough to give players the option doesn't mean that's how the designers meant the game to be played.  All those options are turned on by default for a reason, after all.

The game was designed as a light-hearted 4-player fighting game with lots of mayhem, hence, that is the intended way of playing it. The fact that most people find the game to be boring when you remove all of those elements which set it apart from your typical fighting game is evidence that it wasn't meant to be played that way. But that certainly doesn't mean people can't if that's what floats their boat.

[D_Average]

What part of Super Mario Kart discussion begins here didn't you understand? 

Truthfully, I hate SMK.  Hate hate hate hate hate.  Can't stand it.  I hate the controls.  I hate the coins.  I hate jumping.  I think battle mode is boring.

I played MK64 first so maybe that has something to do with it.

I played SMK for an entire summer with a great friend (mostly battle mode) in 7th grade, we love'd it.  Than 64 came out, and our minds were BLOWN the next 8 years, still playing competitive with it in college.  So I guess, SMK is just a great nostalgic trip for me as I agree MK64 is better.

[Pale]

I guess it depends on your point of view of what "meant to be played" means.  While I don't have any evidence of what Sakurai's opinion of the game is, I'll take your word for it that you read it somewhere... just because he may prefer to play it one way, the sheer fact that they put the options in means they acknowledge that that is not the only way people like to play.

So again, it's meant to be played either way.

I think that Broodwars said it best:

That Sakurai was kind enough to give players the option doesn't mean that's how the designers meant the game to be played.  All those options are turned on by default for a reason, after all.

The game was designed as a light-hearted 4-player fighting game with lots of mayhem, hence, that is the intended way of playing it. The fact that most people find the game to be boring when you remove all of those elements which set it apart from your typical fighting game is evidence that it wasn't meant to be played that way. But that certainly doesn't mean people can't if that's what floats their boat.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that the designers were forced to do us a favor and put those options in.  I think its a much more likely scenario that they thought... "Damn, it's awesome that our game can be played as a hyper competitive one-on-one fighter OR a 4-player party game brawler."

[Arbok]

The fact that most people find the game to be boring when you remove all of those elements which set it apart from your typical fighting game is evidence that it wasn't meant to be played that way.

"Most" seems like pretty anecdotal evidence.

If the game wasn't meant to be played that way, then by this time the options simply would have been removed. This isn't like wavedashing, which was not how the game was meant to be played and was therefore removed by the time Brawl came around. It was always their intent to let people play it how they wanted to, and for some reason people throw a hissy fit that some enjoy the game in a totally different way than themselves.

[D_Average]

I agree with Pale.  If its in the game, then they intended for you to use it.  Saying its not, is like saying if you play Madden, you should rely on a running game, like a man, instead of throwing the ball.  Just doesn't add up.  Like EA says, 'Its in the game!".

[Mop it up]

I think its a much more likely scenario that they thought... "Damn, it's awesome that our game can be played as a hyper competitive one-on-one fighter OR a 4-player party game brawler."

I think that their thought process went like this: "We'd better add in some other options or else people will complain that the game is too limited." I don't know why you seem to think that it is a bad thing I consider the tournament rules to be outside of how the game was designed to be played, as it isn't like it CAN'T be played or enjoyed that way.

The fact that most people find the game to be boring when you remove all of those elements which set it apart from your typical fighting game is evidence that it wasn't meant to be played that way.

"Most" seems like pretty anecdotal evidence.

The tournament scene represents no more than 1% of the people who own the games. The game was designed to be a simplified fighter with easy-to-pick-up controls, and has mass appeal thanks to the various franchises represented within it. Brawl has sold the most of the three games and appears on a system which is marketed towards everyone ("casuals" or "non-gamers"). Seems like enough evidence to me.

[King of Twitch]

What part of Super Mario Kart discussion begins here didn't you understand?

[Mop it up]

lol, sorry, I tried. I'm still upset about GoldenPhoenix leaving...

[Arbok]

The tournament scene represents no more than 1% of the people who own the games.

Who says one has to be part of the tournament scene to enjoy playing the game a certain way? Or even a variety of ways?

The game was designed to be a simplified fighter with easy-to-pick-up controls, and has mass appeal thanks to the various franchises represented within it.

I agree, and it works very well that way.

Brawl has sold the most of the three games and appears on a system which is marketed towards everyone ("casuals" or "non-gamers"). Seems like enough evidence to me.

How do you figure? What does the Wii have to do with it? What do casuals have to do with enjoying the game with or without items? Is there some data I'm unaware of that indicates that casuals only enjoy playing the game with all items, four players? I'd say they are more likely to play with the default option just out of ease, but your original point was that "most" would find other options boring, which I don't believe.

Anyway, again, I just want to make it clear that it frustrates me that people have to rally behind their method of play for this game and feel the need to turn their nose at those who play it differently.

...And on the topic of Super Mario Kart, I always enjoyed this entry in the series as the first one I played. It was a tremendous amount of fun back in the day. However, I felt Mario Kart 64 improved on it tremendously. The games are very different, with dynamics like the jump being more defined and the coins, which gives them both a little life against each other... but I felt Mario Karty 64 was when the series hit its peak and zenith.

[Mop it up]

There's no way to know what kinds of people play it or how they play it, I was just going with what I know. The game can be played a variety of ways and that's what's great about it, I have my preference but I don't have a problem with others deviating from that.

[Arbok]

The game can be played a variety of ways and that's what's great about it, I have my preference but I don't have a problem with others deviating from that.

Awesome, so we agree then!

...so wait, how did this convo even start then... >_>

Nothing like a Nintendo forum to get a little back and forth going with two people who agree on the same points I suppose.

[Mop it up]

I think it's just the way I was presenting myself I guess? I mean, I DO still think it is boring to use the tournament rules, and that it isn't how the game was designed to be played. But I don't care if someone likes to play that way. When I play with others then we take turns choosing the rules each match and cycle through everyone, and I don't complain whenever somebody picks something I don't like such as turning items off.

[broodwars]

lol, sorry, I tried. I'm still upset about GoldenPhoenix leaving...

Wait, what?  Did GP leave the site or something?

[KDR_11k]

Why not add the Blue Shell to the next Smash Bros? Make it an instant KO and hit whoever has the least damage.

[Stratos]

Why not add the Blue Shell to the next Smash Bros? Make it an instant KO and hit whoever has the least damage.

Isn't that basically what half of the character's Smash Balls are?

[Mop it up]

Why not add the Blue Shell to the next Smash Bros? Make it an instant KO and hit whoever has the least damage.

Isn't that basically what half of the character's Smash Balls are?

I was juuuust about to say that and got that "new post" message when I went to post.

I actually think that Mario Kart Wii is more balanced that Brawl. OH SNAP!

[Stratos]

HaHa! I beat you!...but I don't feel very victorious.

[Mop it up]

You'd better not, or else you have to change your title to "Always beating women".

[Stratos]

"Always hated by women"... 

[Mop it up]

Was your title changed without your knowledge?

[Stratos]

It was changed shortly after the initial joke broke on the boards but I have no knowledge of who did it and was not part of the changing process. I think it is funny, though. That's how good titles are made, right?

[KDR_11k]

You'd better not, or else you have to change your title to "Always beating women".

More like "setting off traps", eh?

[Peachylala]

Why not add the Blue Shell to the next Smash Bros? Make it an instant KO and hit whoever has the least damage.

Isn't that basically what half of the character's Smash Balls are?

Some of them, yes. Others, not really. Sonic's Smash Attack is the most cheapest attack EVER. Snake's, on the other hand, needs good aiming skills.

Ironic that a character which people wanted in Brawl got the **** end of the stick and another character who's creator is a giant troll got a slightly well balanced move set.

yes i am bitter

[Halbred]

The thing that kind of kills SMK now, when I go back to it, is that there is no working power slide.

[BeautifulShy]

The thing that kind of kills SMK now, when I go back to it, is that there is no working power slide.

That is not true. It is just different from MK64.

[Pale]

Yeah, sliding in SMK makes it so you don't scrub off any speed around corners, allowing you to hit that AWESOME high pitched WIIRRRRRR of your kart motor going at top speed.