Topic: REVIEWS: The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass

[Urkel]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I don't want "I think it's fine" I want to hear a reason why the touchscreen HAD to be used for moving.  Or how about a reason why the OPTION of the d-pad should not have been made available?

Analog movement. There are parts of the game that require it.

Besides that, games that require you to use the D-pad and the stylus are uncomfortable to play for a long period of time and require you to find a surface to rest the system on, making it not so portable anymore.

[jakeOSX]

so, i am not read all posts, i am working on it, but since this is the intranets, i am gonna put my two cents in anyway.

here is what i don't like about this zelda. in every other zelda i have played i AM link. i think one, because of the stylus control, i don't feel like i am link, but rather i am someone telling link what to do.  

[planetidiot]

I don't mind the stylus control, other than rolling which never seems to work when I want, and seems to happen when I don't.

What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic.  I'm sorry, this is a portable system.  I'm usually not playing it at home.  So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?  

Also the auto jumping doesn't seem to work on moving platforms.  Sure you can auto jump ON to the moving platform, but when you try to jump to the next platform instead of waiting for it to arrive, no, you walk right off the edge.  This sort of inconstancy should have been picked up in beta.  Why do I always find the problems my first game through and a skilled team of testers doesn't notice?

[stedaman]

"Uh no you draw a straight line between you are your target to swing a sword which you CAN mistakenly do while trying to drag your "cursor" to make yourself move."

Well for movement you hold down the stylus to make you move....to swing the sword you are actually draggin the stylus in a motion that makes it swing...but not a design fault...works perfectly..but if you do the mistake yourself that will happen (Dunno how you could do this mistake, but oh well ).
For movement point further away and run with him for the most part... and you will not swing accidently at all.

Why is using the touchscreen for a game a stupid idea?
Thats why the DS has the touchscreen...to use it for some games...its different and unique.
I find it alot more pleasing using the stylus..its fresh and very enjoyable.
In mario 64 ds....thats different...the d-pad use is obviously the better option..but that wasnt made for just stylus play was it?

But with this Zelda, Nintendo have done an extremely good job to make a fantastic game.

"but it's so blatantly obvious that the initial idea was "let's make a Zelda game that only uses the touchscreen"

ofcourse it was..lol..so what's your point?

Why doesn't it "logically" make sense?  You say the "slightest bit or sense or not"..but I feel you you think using the touchscreen the whole time isn't logical. Evne though the whole game is based on just using the stylus and that's why it works well..so I'm unsure of what isn't logical.

"Does anyone HONESTLY think that moving with the stylus is such a great idea?"

Yes its a brilliant idea..the whole game is based on it and so  it works really well. Yes it is better than using the d-pad...that's the whole point. It's more than fine..it's brilliant!
Maybe the option to use D-pad should have been implemented just for you!
But that would defeat the object of the game and use stylus play in such a great way. It's easier to control with the
stylus for movement to go slow or fast for movement...so that's one better thing than the D-pad.






 

[decoyman]

planetidiot: for the yelling parts, just blow in the mic. It doesn't even have to be that loud or windy.

Everybody else who wants stylus controls for certain parts, and d-pad movement for others. A few problems, and why I think they went with just the stylus.
1. Hand Cramps. Everyone complained about hand fatigue w/ MP:H and pretty much any other game which uses both d-pad and touchscreen. With just the stylus, you not only can hold the screen better, but you have access to the buttons for shortcuts to items and map and such.
2. Simplicity and analog. It's not only simpler to assume someone is always going to be using the stylus, but as Urkel said, Analog movement is vital for this game. In a game like this, you need both slow walking and running. No analog, and you have to do something clunky like hold down a button to walk slowly.

[jakeOSX]

Quote
Originally posted by: jakeOSX
so, i am not read all posts

apparently i am not speaking english either...

i have not read all posts.

[Ian Sane]

"Why is using the touchscreen for a game a stupid idea?"

Because it makes moving awkward.  It's floaty and inaccurate and you don't even feel like you're controlling the character.  And it's only stupid to use JUST the touchscreen.  There's no problem with using it period.

"ofcourse it was..lol..so what's your point?"

Um, because arbitrarily limiting a game to only use part of the controls available makes no sense?  The goal for a game should always be to use what is appropriate and ideal for the game.  The second you enforce a restriction for no good reason you're no longer trying to make the best game you can but rather the best game you can within the restrictions you set.  They still made a good game this time but they sure didn't when they decided to make a "one button game" and got Kirby Air Ride.  To make the best Zelda game on the DS they can their plan should be "let's make a Zelda game on the DS".  Touchscreen, d-pad, buttons, whatever works best.

I didn't take into account analog control though I have yet to find a scenario where the standard 2D Zelda walking speed wouldn't have sufficed.  I don't see how a movement system that some people have trouble with (I'm not the only one to complain) is better than one that no one EVER has had problems with.  Nor do I see a reason not to provide the option.  Metroid Prime Hunters had multiple control options.  SSB Brawl will.  Hell even Super Mario 64 DS did.  Why the hell can't Zelda?

Though I suspect the reason there is no option is because then there's no way to compare and the method they have now would probably be less accepted if the other option was available.

I do want to mention one really good thing about this game.  The boat is much better than Wind Waker's was.  Part of what I didn't like about the big blue ocean of nothing was that changing the wind every five seconds was a pain in the butt which made me less enthusiastic towards sailing.  Having a boat with a motor changes that and I'd be more interested in another ocean world like Wind Waker if I could just drive my boat whereever without caring about the wind.

[that Baby guy]

Thirty years from now, there will be a new innovation in gaming:  Buttons.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I was about to say Color TV.

[decoyman]

lol, I just remembered this, but on one of the later floors of the Ocean King place, there's a skeleton/spirit complaining about lack of d-pad controls.  

[KDR_11k]

GP, you don't count because you're just trolling anyway. You just talk bad about random games to annoy people. Your comments are not related to the quality of the game at all.

I'm not sure if dpad use would be a good idea, playing Tingle tends to make my hand hurt because I have to hold the whole DS off-center with one hand.

Quote
What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic. I'm sorry, this is a portable system. I'm usually not playing it at home. So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?

I agree with this, mic use makes a game unplayable in public. I think portable games may need a portability score which would include things like distance between save possibilities (or progress possible within short play sessions), microphone use and any hardware gimmicks like Boktai's solar sensor.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
GP, you don't count because you're just trolling anyway. You just talk bad about random games to annoy people. Your comments are not related to the quality of the game at all

Uh ok, I thought I had some legitimate concerns about the game, not to mention I wasn't the only one with the complaints about things like the Ocean King dungeon and the touch controls. But I'm trolling. Give me a break. Also I think the D-Pad a buttons would be fine for the hand, not sure about d-pad and touch pad though. Though I can see using the buttons on the NDS for movement, and attacking but switching to the touch controls for things like throwing the boomerang and sailing the ship. That shouldn't hurt the hand.  

[Ian Sane]

"What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic. I'm sorry, this is a portable system. I'm usually not playing it at home. So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?"

Hell I play DS pretty much exclusively at home and I felt silly doing that.  Really if you're talking about portability you have to question why Nintendo put the microphone on in the first place (though I think it's a good thing for an online system).  But then this is Nintendo which designed WarioWare mulitplayer so you and your buddy have to hold the GBA together like you're more than friends.  Maybe in Japan yelling into an electronic device on the bus is all hilarious and socially acceptable.

[that Baby guy]

Where's Ty when you need him.  He could tell us.  What about that new Japanese correspondent?  Who is he again?  Can he tell us how many people shout at their electronics on planes, trains, and in the public in general?

[GoldenPhoenix]

I am waiting for the reviewer to start defending himself.  

[UltimatePartyBear]

Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k

Quote
What's bugged me so far is that I'm supposed to make noise into the mic. I'm sorry, this is a portable system. I'm usually not playing it at home. So I'm supposed to yell into a microphone in public?

I agree with this, mic use makes a game unplayable in public. I think portable games may need a portability score which would include things like distance between save possibilities (or progress possible within short play sessions), microphone use and any hardware gimmicks like Boktai's solar sensor.

In most games that ask you to blow on the microphone, it generally works rather well to lightly rub the microphone with your finger.  It causes just as much noise, although it's hard to maintain a steady level if the game wants that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Geez, you guys are well too self conscious. I could care less if people watched me talk to the DS or blow in the mic!

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
Here are some of my thoughts on the game, in a handy "Strengths/Weaknesses" list format!

Strengths...

1. Stylus control (when employing the shortcuts) is streamlined and AWESOME. When I first started, I had an issue with my hand being in the way sometimes, but I've gotten over that since.

2. Graphics are similarly AWESOME. This game is pushin' the polys hard (both screens, as someone said), and the same style which won (nearly) everyone over in WW is back in full force here. Excellent art direction and technical execution.

3. Memorable characters. I don't get the complaint about this. I can list off over a dozen totally memorable and hilarious characters. Don't make me do it, because I will!

4. HARDCORE GAMEPLAY OPPORTUNITIES ABOUND. Yes, I'm talking about the Ocean King Temple. This is set up for you to do speed runs, see how fast you can get through, what shortcuts you can find, etc. I'm nearly through the game just got the Phantom Blade or whatever it's called, and I've had a great time trying to improve my time. Plus, there is a HUGELY USEFUL shortcut which allows you to skip like half of the dungeon once you're fast enough, while retaining your time up to that point. If anything, Zach, maybe the problem is that you're not hardcore enough for this game. Besides the OKT (as I will now refer to it), you've got sidequests out the wazoo. There are mini games to play, characters to unite, romantic intrigue to thwart(?!), force gems to find, ship parts to find and customize with, loot to salvage, timed mazes to run, fish to catch... need I go on? With all that, I don't miss heart container pieces one teensy bit. It IS true that this game is made easier with the stylus, but that doesn't mean it's not hardcore. In fact, despite it being made easier, I've died more times in this game than in either TP or WW.

5. Sailing is fun and breaks up the land-based action. I wish the weather/day system from WW was still intact here, but it's a minor thing really. There's a ton to do on the water, and you're rewarded for it with useful items too.

6. This Zelda tries a lot of different things, from sailing to powering up your fairy companions to stylus controls, to new collectibles (force gems, ship parts, ...), to story details no Ganon!, lots of humor (maybe the most in a Zelda game? I've laughed out loud more than once – like when Link goes to hold up the Phantom blade and Oshus just snatches it away as the typical Zelda "pick-up" music starts to play, and Link is just standing there in the pose, looking confused to new uses for familiar items grappling hook tight-rope walking and catapulting, anyone? how 'bout the hammer? to a temporary dungeon companion who can -gasp- attack and fend for himself to a new sort of multiplayer. All of these changes – ALL OF THEM – are great and welcome, and serve to freshen the Zelda gameplay/formula.

7. Engaging, creative, and FUN boss battles. But this is a given for a Zelda game. I was recently really impressed with the Ancient Stone Soldier boss battle.

Weaknesses/Quibbles:

1. The compositions are, for the most part, top-notch. However, I've run into more than a few occasions where the songs loop way too quickly/often. I'm thinking, running around outside when there are enemies about, and some dungeons. I wish there was a larger variety of tunes, because what's there is really good.

2. Missed opportunities with regard to the storyline continuity. Like someone else said, this a pretty unique in that it's a direct sequel. However, it would have been immensely cool to see more than just passing references (the intro is great and the Prince of Red Lions, "Want to be my apprentice? Good, your title is 'Half a Hero'" guy is pretty funny). Why not make the pirates show up again somewhere along the line? Even that small thread of continuity would have been welcome.

So! As you might guess, I disagree with many points of the review and its final score. However, I also disagree with the idea of writing a review with the idea of "what the average gamer will think of it." A review is a personal take on the game, and this was Zach's. I hope NWR gets a few more reviews of this game up soon to give a (hopefully) different viewpoint on it. It's unfortunate that Zach didn't have as good a time as many of us are having with it.

For me, I can see me finishing it, and then going back to play it again one day, maybe one day soon. The only other Zelda game I've done that with is WW. I guess it's fitting that the next game I might do that with is WW's sequel.

Quote
Originally posted by: decoyman
planetidiot: for the yelling parts, just blow in the mic. It doesn't even have to be that loud or windy.

Everybody else who wants stylus controls for certain parts, and d-pad movement for others. A few problems, and why I think they went with just the stylus.
1. Hand Cramps. Everyone complained about hand fatigue w/ MP:H and pretty much any other game which uses both d-pad and touchscreen. With just the stylus, you not only can hold the screen better, but you have access to the buttons for shortcuts to items and map and such.
2. Simplicity and analog. It's not only simpler to assume someone is always going to be using the stylus, but as Urkel said, Analog movement is vital for this game. In a game like this, you need both slow walking and running. No analog, and you have to do something clunky like hold down a button to walk slowly.

I pretty much agree with all of this. Bravo decoyman.

[Halbred]

There's no point in defending my review at this point. I've seen almost nothing but seven pages of rampant fanboyism thus far. Just because I don't like this game AS MUCH AS other Zelda games does not mean that NWR's reviews are going down in quality. What does that even mean? You people don't agree with my review and all of a sudden the entire site is in question? Give me a break. You're all acting like I insulted a PERSON by finding fault with this game, and frankly, it makes me sick.

One of the most important aspects of reviewing a game, for me, is to compare that game to its peers. Phantom Hourglass fails to meet the high standards set by Wind Waker, Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, and, at times, Twilight Princess. And don't blame the technology. Link's Awakening, in my humble opinion, is one of the best Zelda games ever made, and it's an original Game Boy cart. Thusly, I cannot give PH a score as high or higher than any of those games. And I honestly did not like the Temple of the Ocean King. And you know, as I read other online reviews, I noticed that a lot of other gaming outlets didn't like it either, so it's not just me. And a lot of other people questioned the lack of D-pad control.

So I'm going to defend my review anymore. Nothing will be gained, and I'm not going to make anybody see the light. I did not like this game. That doesn't mean YOU don't have to. And other NWR staffers will be reviewing it soon, so maybe they'll like it, and you can just go ahead and read the review you want to read instead of mine. You know, the review that validates your point of view.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Halbred
There's no point in defending my review at this point. I've seen almost nothing but seven pages of rampant fanboyism thus far. Just because I don't like this game AS MUCH AS other Zelda games does not mean that NWR's reviews are going down in quality. What does that even mean? You people don't agree with my review and all of a sudden the entire site is in question? Give me a break. You're all acting like I insulted a PERSON by finding fault with this game, and frankly, it makes me sick.

My post was actually supporting your review as I went over it piece by piece and it seemed just fine to me.

I begin to wonder why reviews are getting talkback threads at all, considering the sheer amount of bitching that always seems to happen in them.

When was the last review posted where EVERYONE said, "Yeah, that's pretty fair. I agree."?

[IceCold]

Metroid Prime 3.

EDIT: Plus Halbred, the generic "rampant fanboyism" response isn't going to cut it, especially since people in this thread have been pretty civil, and they've backed up their points.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Metroid Prime 3.

EDIT: Plus Halbred, the generic "rampant fanboyism" response isn't going to cut it, especially since people in this thread have been pretty civil, and they've backed up their points.

You are right except for the part about backing up their points and being civil. Being civil isn't going around stating how NWR's reviews have went into the trash because someone didn't love PH like the majority. Heck I've disagreed with plenty of NWR reviews, but never went that far.

[Kairon]

I can't wait to get this game! You guys look like you're having so much fun argueing about it!

[IceCold]

arguing --- argueing

marketing --- marketting

[Kairon]

EEEEAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!