Hey Bag

The list of gamecube games is a good idea... but whats with these crazy rules about having to be the first in a series on the cube that has a sequel. And I'm thinking Super Mario Sunshine does not fit your requirement because there is no Sunshine 2. SO either you messed up by picking that game or you said the rules wrong.

And why cant sequels count WWE Day of Reckoning 2 is a sequel and it is decent wrestling game and a must own for most gamecube owners.

And Why am I feeling that the best genre will be left out im talking about sports of course. You guys won't recognize the greatness of a madden version or All Star Baseball 2005, NBA Live 05, or NCAA Footbal 2005. As far as im concerened sports games are just as good as other genres if not better, and madden is one of the cubes top sellers. SO why no love?

ps. if you somehow do eventually pick a sports game later I will in advance apologize

- pikkdogs
Michigan

The "sequel rule" was put in place to keep the final picks down to the essentials. Like we said in the guidelines, we only wanted to recognize the original game in a series, if that series started on the GameCube. We did this because we felt there was no way a sequel could be as influential on the GameCube library as its original. For instance, even though people consider Pikmin 2 to be just as good as Pikmin 1, you couldn't have had the second without the first. In other words, you'll think of the first GameCube game when someone mentions the sequel. That's why we only picked the original Pikmin, as was the case with our other GC games that had GC sequels.

But then there's the sports games you're talking about. Yes, there are some amazing sports games on the GameCube. I like NHL Hitz 20-02 myself. It's the best hockey game ever made, I feel. But the second you talk about mainstream sports games, you need to talk about multiplatform games. For our list, the first and most obvious criterion we devised was that a game absolutely, positively must have been GameCube-exclusive. How can a game be the GameCube's greatest if you could have just as easily played it on the PlayStation 2 or Xbox? Every single licensed sports game was multiplatform, and superior versions were on the other systems, anyway (online play, controllers better suited for sports).

I'll get into explaining the guidelines in much greater detail at the end of tonight's mailbag.

As I'm sure you know, the GameCube has three exp. ports on the bottom of the system. One was used for the Internet adapter and another was used for the Game Boy Player. Do you know if there were ever any plans to use the last exp. port?

Thanks,

Matthew

- I've been visiting NWR and it's previous incarnations for several years but I'm not registered on the boards... :/

All signs point to Serial Port 2 being where we would have connected a GameCube "hard drive." We actually reported on this being the case way back in October 2001, but for whatever reason the add-on never materialized. More than likely, the extra storage would have been used for an online GameCube to store data that wouldn't otherwise fit on a memory card. Later GameCube models don't have the connection port, meaning Nintendo probably abandoned the idea after it was clear that the GameCube wouldn't be seriously pursuing online games.

I love the Gamecube and personally think it barely edges out N64 as the 4th best Nintendo console. It gets the most criticism on it's game library, but that doesn't appear to be a major problem in hindsight considering how many of my favorite GC games were left off your list. Games like Rogue Leader, Pikmin, and Four Swords were barely a blip on my radar.

On the other hand, I have beaten REmake and RE4 so many times I can truly consider those games utterly "completed" without a single weapon unlocked, even going so far as to do speed runs on both those games. I also have RE0 and Code Veronica, but was never able to find RE2 or 3 for a price that I was willing to pay. Gamecube is without a doubt the best console ever for RE fans.

Metroid Prime is probably my 4th favorite game of all-time. I actually took me 18 months to beat the final boss, but you can imagine how thrilling it was to finally see the ending after all the frustration. Even in the 1st person perspective, this is one of the best adventure games I've ever played. I still remember my 1st play-through, walking down corridors scanning everything and finding new paths to explore.

Super Smash Bros. Melee and Double Dash also deserve a mention.Both were always huge multiplayer games when I had 3 roommates in college.

- Jon
Texas

I'm glad you wrote with some disagreement on the games we picked. Even though most of us agreed on many of the games that made the final cut, a lot of staffers still couldn't believe it. That's why we threw in the dissension quotes to show other people's reasoning. No list is definitive—although we think we're pretty damn close.

If you're wondering why certain games didn't make it onto the list, you'll get an explanation at the bottom of this page.

hey I enjoyed the gamecube system, some people did not. I was wondering if it was a profitable venture for Nintendo or did they lose money?

thanks

- pikkdogs

Just like anything else Nintendo does, the GameCube was a financial success. Nintendo is the only one of the three console manufacturers that turns a profit on hardware, so as soon as the first shipment of consoles were sold out (700,000, I believe), Nintendo was makin' some serious cash. It's easy to think that being last in market share equates to lower profits, but that's not the case. The same is true the other way around: The market-leading PlayStation 2 didn't turn a profit for Sony until four or five years after it launched.

Do the Gamecube games that are presented in progressive scan (480p) such as windwaker/final fantasy CC/etc display as progressive scan on the Wii as well (given you have the Wii component cable)?

Do I have to hold the red button down on the Gamecube pad as the game boots up on the Wii?

Or should this happen automatically?

I got F zero GX to play in Widescreen through the options menu in the game, (it looked awesome), and picked an option to play in 60 Hz mode when the game was loading, but I didn't see any option to play in 480p.

- Gavo
Belfast

If you have a GameCube game that supports progressive scan, then you can play it in progressive scan on your component cable-equipped Wii system. It may not happen automatically, since some older GC games required that you hold down the B (red) button to boot into progressive. If you do that every time you start a GameCube game, the option to run it in 480p should come up when the game starts.

What would you say was the defining moment in the Cube's life when you realised that it wasn't going to take off as much as people hoped? For me, I'd say it's when Crystal Chronicles was announced. You just kinda knew then third parties, even Square was giving the Cube half baked games.

- Acefondu
Michigan

On the contrary, the announcement of Crystal Chronicles was one of the better things to happen for the GameCube. It marked the return of Square(-Enix) games on Nintendo platforms, which was a pretty big deal considering how big the developer's departure from Nintendo was back in the mid 90s. The game turned out to be really good, provided you jumped through the hoops to be able to play it.

For me, personally, I think the time when I realized the GameCube wouldn't be all that we wanted it to be was going into 2004 after the release of Nintendo's LAN-enabled games. Mario Kart, 1080 and Kirby Air Ride were supposed to kick-start broadband adapter sales and eventually lead the charge into the GameCube online era. Instead, it showed everyone how clueless Nintendo was about putting together network games. People wanted more, and they were very vocal about it, but Nintendo just showed no interest in pursuing the matter further.

The thing that confirmed it was the announcement that Burnout 3 would not be coming to the GameCube. EA implied that the GameCube's lack of online features was the major reason they didn't want to port the game over. At the time, this was seen as a strange move. When Acclaim was publishing the series, the GameCube versions did quite well. Looking back now, I can totally see what Electronic Arts was thinking. If Nintendo didn't give a damn about something EA wanted to put in their game, why should EA bother publishing the game on the GameCube? Many other developers and publishers probably felt the same way.

So for me, the GameCube was dead in the water once publishers jumped ship with games that they wanted to be online, the GameCube library started to thin out. You could say that's when the GameCube jumped the shark.

What ever happened to the secret game that Zoonami was developing for the Nintendo Gamecube?Did they cancel it,or are they working on something else?

- Vorax07
Menlo Park,California

IGN Wii has a feature entitled The Lost Games of the GameCube that summarizes what happened to a lot of MIA GC games, including that Zoonami game. If you're in the GameCube spirit like I am, I suggest you check it out. That's a nice coincidence they put up that article this week.

Or is it??

heres what we know, phantasy star online came out on the gamecube, with online gaming as long as you had an online adapter for the gamecube.

the wii is backwards compatable with gamecube games.

the wii has a builtin wifi adapter and can go online,

now for my question...can you play phantasy star online with the wii online?

i try to test it out for myself, but my wii keeps reseting everytime i try to even startup the game, without even attempting to test my question.

- CaptJapan
Florida

You cannot play LAN or online GameCube games on your Wii. When the Wii enters GameCube mode after putting in a GC disc, the system can't access Wii-specific functions, including the wireless networking features. This means you can't play PSO on the Wii, since there's no GameCube Internet adapter to be found on the console. Sorry, but you'll need to stick with the GameCube to play it.

i'm glad you guys made that list of the greatest gamecube games, because i seriously had no idea that resident evil 4 was good. and wow, ssb:m is on here too? i didn't expect that. you guys nailed it. it's always nice to see a fansite like nintendo world report giving some ups to nintendo every once in a while, because they seriously deserve it. and if there's one thing i love with all my heart, it's reminiscing about video games that came out two years ago. tales of symphonia, man. that game. that was the game. your write-up of metroid prime brought a tear to my eye. i had flashbacks to when i was just a young link, sitting cross-legged on my plush green basement floor, trying to kill that damn ridley. boy was he tough! when i beat him i was so excited i took a polaroid and sent it into nintendo. true story.

anyway yeah, thanks again for all of the time and effort you guys put into this massive article. it is truly a testimate to the world of video games journalism and i hope all of those stuffy writers learn from it by stepping away from their cliché, done-to-death articles and thinking outside the box to create something that is even a fraction as clever and informative as The Greatest GameCube Games.

by the way, big fan of the in-text link advertisements. i finally got to learn something about "games"

- f*ckyoutyp

After analyzing this email for a bit, I have come to the conclusion that it is not sarcastic in any way, shape or form. As such, we will take your comments as a compliment. Thanks!

However, for argument's sake, let's pretend that there were people out there that thought our tribute to the GameCube was of the "cliché, done-to-death" type. (I certainly can't imagine anyone who would!) So what if it is? We wanted people to know that there are a lot of important games on the GameCube that they should play if they haven't yet. We wanted people to remember the good times they had with the GameCube games they did play. Is there something wrong with that? We don't think so, and neither did the hundreds of thousands of readers that enjoyed the special over the week.

Yourself included, of course.

I fully agree with your Gamecube list. The Gamecube sparked an interest in some unknown franchises to me or ones I did not care about. For instance after the Spaceworld 2000 video of Samus I looked hard for the other games in the Metroid series. As of now I have them all except Hunters&Pinball. I tracked down the three Prince of Persia games and am dieing for the inevitable sequel. Metal Gear Solid:The Twin Snakes got me into that franchise. After RE4 I now want RE5. What will the future hold? With the backwards compatibility of the Wii the Gamecube,N64,SNES,NES greats will never be forgotten.

- Brandy
Orange City,FL

Yes indeed, that's what we do here at Nintendo World Report. We change lives for the better, one person at a time.

I like your picks of games the general concept of promoting the GameCube.

I think the whole notion that the GameCube was a "failure" or even not as good as some other Nintendo systems is hogwash. As you pointed out, it had a huge number of fantastic titles, and it sold nearly equally with the Xbox. And now the Wii can draw on its terrific games.

I myself purchased Sonic Mega Collection recently because it was a much better deal than buying the games one by one on the Virtual Console - so I'm glad to see you're supporting the same idea.

I think a lot of new Wii people are going to be a lot happier paying $20 for Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, or RE4 than laying down $50 for a clunker like Red Steel.

- Koloth
NJ

One of the reasons why we waited until when we did to do the whole GameCube tribute week was to remind people that there are some elite GameCube games that they can go to if they aren't satisfied with the current Wii lineup. It's not just for the people that play games as a primary hobby, either; there are a lot of people that didn't own a GameCube—or any game console for that matter—before they got a Wii. The more they know about what the best games are for a system, the better.

The biggest reason, of course, was to let it be known that the GameCube was not a failure, despite it being labeled as such. The real failures are systems like the 3DO, the CD-i, the M2, the Atari 5200, the Jaguar, the Virtual Boy and many, many others that tried and failed to make their mark on the interactive entertainment industry. The GameCube hung tough, and thank the stars that it did. What would we do without Metroid Prime or Resident Evil 4?

The Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, which exists primarily to offer yearly awards to deserving videogames, has no legitimacy in my eyes. They are not the videogame equivalent of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences who gives out the Oscars. The AIAS awards have no legitimacy for one reason:

They arbitrarily snubbed RE4.

They have this rule: you have to be a member of the AIAS in order to receive an award, which costs money. Capcom wouldn't fork over the dough just so that AIAS could give the nod to a game that already has accolades growing out of all of its orifices.

RE4 was clearly the game of 2005. Even from a purely objective point of view, it deserved consideration at the very least. AIAS didn't give it that, so its award has no legitimacy.

Which is exactly what's wrong with your GC tribute: it has no legitimacy.

If The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess isn't even up for consideration because you wrote the rules that way, your list is irrelevant and your rules are wrong. The sequel clause is as arbitrary as the AIAS's rule about being a member, and only serves to denigrate the legitimacy of the list. As such, your list is without legitimacy.

Making Twilight Princess a footnote to Wind Waker, a game that is clearly inferior to TP on every level, is unacceptable. It's like making Super Mario Bros 3 a footnote in the history of Super Mario Bros 1. Neither provides any understanding of the truth that the sequels were fundamentally superior to the original.

- Alfonse

Let's get something straight about our Greatest GameCube Games feature. It is not the list of the greatest games on the GameCube. It is the list of the GameCube's greatest games. There's a significant difference between those two definitions, which I will explain here.

Anyone can put together a list of all the best games available on the GameCube. You can go to our reviews listing to see what how we rated every GameCube game, or see what Game Rankings has, if you want to get a broader opinion. You don't need us to tell you something as trivial and obvious as that, which is why our feature is not that kind of list.

Instead, we decided to focus on the GameCube first and foremost. Why was the GameCube an important system? Which GameCube games were influential enough to move consoles off the shelves? Which games would you instantly recognize as GameCube games if I mentioned them in conversation? Simply put, what were the greatest games that belonged to the GameCube?

Obviously, when you're talking about something that involves what the "greatest games" are, you're going to have to start with the best of the best games. That obviously narrowed the field down a lot from the 550+ titles that were released for the GameCube, but the list that came out of that was still pretty large.

The next step in pounding out the final list was to keep it to games that were exclusive to the GameCube at one point or another. Sure, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time is one of the top five games of the generation (and maybe top three), but if I asked 100 people what system they associate with the game with, the GameCube would be the minority response every time. Since we wanted people to remember the GameCube above all the others with every game we put on the list, multiplatform games were out. (Hold this thought for a bit.)

This chopped the list down to a much more manageable level, but then there was more work to be done yet. At this point, Pikmin, Pikmin 2, Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 were all games that had made the grade. However, we were a little uncomfortable declaring that two games from a single series could both be capable of defining the GameCube's place in gaming history.

You mention Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. 3. If we were going to put together a list for the NES's greatest games, both games would absolutely need to be included. Is this hypocritical on our part? No, and here's why: The original SMB defined the NES as a console capable of ressurecting the home video game market. Super Mario Bros. 3 redefined the NES as an unstoppable force in American society. Metroid Prime and Pikmin certainly defined the GameCube as a capable console, but could you say that their sequels had the same impact on gaming as did SMB3? Nope. We cast off Pikmin 2 and Echoes for that reason.

Twilight Princess was not excluded due to the sequel guideline, however. While it was technically a sequel, had it not been a multiplatform game we would have probably included it as being a totally separate game than Wind Waker. Yes, the reason why we do not consider Zelda: Twilight Princess one of the GameCube's defining games is because people will not remember it as a GameCube title as the years go by. They will remember it as the Wii launch title that used to the a GameCube game. There are people out there that refuse to believe this, but that's the way it is.

Consider this: Prince of Persia, SSX 3 and TimeSplitters 2 are right up there with the other 18 games on our list in terms of game awesomeness, but you don't need a GameCube to play them. No one is complaining that we left off those games the main list due to that factor. It makes sense, after all. Yet, you are saying we should include Twilight Princess despite our justifiable logic? We will not make an exception for this just because it's a Zelda game. That is how serious we were about making a list that defined what the GameCube was as a system.

Now, are we saying that Twilight Princess is not a good game? Don't be ridiculous! We reviewed the Wii version twice and gave it a 10 and a 9.5. The GameCube version scored a 10. It won the NWR Awards for GameCube Game of the Year, Wii Game of the Year, and (a platform-neutral) Overall Game of the Year. It is 100% deserving of all the praise it's getting not just from us, but from everyone else in the game industry. However, the question arises again: Did The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess help define the GameCube? How could it, if the company who developed it favored to tout it as a defining Wii launch game?

The 18 games on our list were the GameCube's own. They helped to define the GameCube. That is why they are on the list, and the other 530 GameCube games are not. That was the purpose for it. Judging by the overwhelmingly positive feedback we received during the course of the week, it seems that a lot of people agree with us. Now that you see our thinking behind the feature, I hope that you do as well.

And so ends GameCube Tribute Week here at Nintendo World Report. I would truly like to thank everyone for the positive feedback we've been getting over the past week. We had a blast putting this feature together over the past few months, and we're happy to finally share it with the world. Even though GameCube week is over, we'll still take your GameCube questions, along with questions for anything else having to do with Nintendo. The mailbag submission form link is a few lines below, as is the talkback thread.

See you next week!