Wii

North America

Red Steel

by Steven Rodriguez - November 19, 2006, 4:18 pm PST
Total comments: 57

I feel ill.

Games are supposed to be entertaining. About 90 minutes in to Red Steel, I am not very entertained. In fact, I'm sick to my stomach.

Moving around with the large bounding box is the most frustrating videogame thing I have done in my life. The large area in which you can aim before the camera moves does make it much easier to aim and shoot, and in fact aiming and shooting works quite well. The trade-off, however, is that turning from side-to-side is slow and inaccurate. It looks like the game is very unforgiving about where you're pointing the remote, because during the many times where my pointer naturally wandered outside of the sensor bar's range I felt as if I had absolutely no control over my character whatsoever. I tried to spin around as little as possible to counteract the issue.

The game doesn't look so hot, either. Initially it looked alright, but the more I got into it the more low-quality stuff showed up. Things only got worse when the first “comic book" cut scenes were presented. The cross between a realistic style and a fantasy style doesn't look good from either angle, and they were very poorly presented on top of that. Their subtitles were cut off at the bottom of the screen, to add insult to injury. It feels as if the game were rushed, which is baffling considering that this was essentially the first third-party Wii game ever.

Another curiosity I encountered was getting trapped on the wrong side of a pile of building rubble that needed to be jumped over. Actually, I believe I was trapped inside of the junk first, and then ejected to the side that eventually killed me for wandering around in the wrong direction. That was not a fun surprise.

I'll take some motion sickness pills before jumping back into Red Steel later today. Look for our review of the game soon.

Talkback

DasmosNovember 19, 2006

I am not surprised in the least..

Smash_BrotherNovember 19, 2006

I am.

I've had plenty of fun with the game with no sign of motion sickness anywhere (and I get sick from iMax theater...). Once you've mastered the controls, walking down hallways ducking behind cover and popping lightning-quick headshots is not only doable but immensely satisfying.

I admit, it feels like it lacks polish, but the game has more than enough entertainment value that I can look past that.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 19, 2006

And ladies and gentlemen, here we have, the new Geist! (although PGC applauded Geist...).

frogger79November 19, 2006

I'm glad he mentioned the subtitles being cut off. I saw that too when I was playing and was worried it was my TV. While the controls do take some getting used to (and are by no means perfect), the game seems to be enjoyable. I'm not very far along in it but I'm looking forward to going back to play it.

NotRimmerNovember 19, 2006

Remember when Windy was going on and on about how awesome Red Steel was and how we should all buy it when it comes out? Yeah... good times...

zakkielNovember 19, 2006

This is a game that people either like (in a restrained kind of way) or absolutely hate. Guess we know which way PGC will go.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 19, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: zakkiel
This is a game that people either like (in a restrained kind of way) or absolutely hate. Guess we know which way PGC will go.


Depends. If they do two reviews, they could have one approving one and one disapproving one.

Is this the general feeling among ALL the editors or are there different opinions about the game?

LuWoo75November 19, 2006

Yeah gamespot really dogged this one out but ign gave it decent reviews. This may be a rental for me just too many conflicting reviews for a buy.

ShyGuyNovember 19, 2006

I disagree with these impressions. The controls are pretty intuitive really.

mantidorNovember 19, 2006

Reading the impressions and a couple of posts in this thread has made me realize that now I can't trust reviews at all, even less than before, I really hope the wii gets more recognized, because the GC presence was so unexistant here that there weren't even rentals for the games anywhere T_T , and with the console is pretty apparent rentals are going to be a must. I remain optimistic, I even saw an ad for the console today in the newspaper, that was HUGE! I don't think I've ever seen a Nintendo ad before except for one about Nintendogs in any local media.

RobageejamminNovember 19, 2006

Your impressions sound exactly how I felt the first 20 minutes of playing it. After that though, I had a hard time putting the controller down. At least for me, once I really got used to the controls, it was a blast. I must agree though, the game does seem rushed and unfinished. I've noticed a few glitches here and there like when this guy came into the room, started shooting at me, and then suddenly froze and went into the default animation frame ( arms and legs straight out ). Even with the glitches, I find it really appealing since its the first shot at Wii FPS controls. Its not perfect but its still an awesome experience.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 19, 2006

I just hope that because Red Steel has been getting mixed reviews...
1. Developers get scared at the idea of making Wii games because they fear that critics will tear them appart
2. Fans will question the Wii's powers

I know reviews sometimes don't matter, but there are people that actually listen to these reviews. If RS gets bad word of mouth, won't this hurt Ubi's relationship with Nintendo as well as potential original franchises for the Wii?

ShyGuyNovember 19, 2006

The water from the sprinklers in the kitchen? Fricking next-gen right there.

KDR_11kNovember 19, 2006

Red Steel sells, it seems. It'll prove to others that a mediocre game using current-gen (to me 360,PS3,Wii remain next gen until the latter two have been released here) tech with some Wiimote additions and hype will sell on the Wii so it'll encourage third party support.

KlapauciusNovember 20, 2006

I read a review of Red Steel in NGamer, here in Britain. They gave it 90%.

Hype?

Or are they better at using the Wiimote than others?

Hmm.

Red STeel seems to be a love-it-or-hate-it game. I remember reading on the GAF forums how people can't put it down onec thery adapt to the control sacheme, but they acknowledge it's weaknesses. Still, they seem to be able to have fun with it DESPITE what reviews say.

I haven't opened it up yet though personally...Wii Sports is just too awesome.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Ian SaneNovember 20, 2006

"I just hope that because Red Steel has been getting mixed reviews...
1. Developers get scared at the idea of making Wii games because they fear that critics will tear them appart
2. Fans will question the Wii's powers"

If that becomes a concern then I think Nintendo could fix things by releasing better content. The problem I see here is that a third party is demonstrating the concept instead of Nintendo themselves. Nintendo is a better developer and has a better grasp of their own hardware so they can demonstrate to gamers and third parties how it's done. Metroid Prime 3 for example will probably have a big impact on how first person games are controlled with the remote. Let's just hope this doesn't become a crippling problem before then.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 20, 2006

Yeah, also Zelda has been released to FANTASTIC reviews, each praising how great the genre works with the controller.

Smash_BrotherNovember 20, 2006

Also, this game hits home in a demographic which is VERY important to Nintendo: the teenage male gamer.

I could barely pry the game away from my 17 year old friend after I had played it for bit first and then let him swap off levels with me.

This is the type who loves anime, especially Cowboy Bebop and Trigun, so Red Steel was an absolute shoe-in for him.

Oh, and kids his age have a MUCH higher tolerance for motion sickness than us old farts.

I played it last night for the first time. It needed another few months in the development cycle.

theratNovember 20, 2006

wheres internet channel? *mad*

KnowsNothingNovember 20, 2006

on ur computer

Flames_of_chaosLukasz Balicki, Staff AlumnusNovember 20, 2006

I think this game is fine sure theres a learning curve and the bounding box can be a pain at first, I over came it fast. The graphics don't make my eyes bleed but I do have to agree they are very mixed. Like Gears of War I learned to pop and cover really fast but and unlike Halo the two weapon limit makes sense in this game. The only reason I think people bombed this game on the reviews is because of high expectations gone sour.

P.S. - Since when did most FPSes have good stories anyways? lol

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 20, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Lord_die_seis
P.S. - Since when did most FPSes have good stories anyways? lol


The story in Geist was pretty good, if clichéd. It featured some plot holes, but overall it was nice.

Flames_of_chaosLukasz Balicki, Staff AlumnusNovember 21, 2006

Well Pap I was just talking about FPSes in general most of them just have the save the world or stop the alien/demons from hell types of story. I do know that there are specific exceptions but in general the FPS genre is in trouble unless some really awesome games come out. Hopefully Bioshock on 360 will change my mind on the state of FPS and I hope Far Cry (on Wii) turns out well.

RickPowersRick Powers, Staff AlumnusNovember 21, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Reading the impressions and a couple of posts in this thread has made me realize that now I can't trust reviews at all, even less than before ...


You shouldn't trust any one review. Reviews are opinions, and everyone has one, just like ... noses. face-icon-small-smile.gif

Seriously, you could do what I do, which is find the one reviewer who's previous reviews pretty closely align with your own tastes, or you can check all reviews in aggregate and go based on that. But for the most part, reviews are just a snapshot in time, colored by expectations and perspective, and that all needs to be taken into account when you evaluate a review.

vuduNovember 21, 2006

rickavatar963rd.gif

I fail to see your nose, good sir. face-icon-small-happy.gif

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 21, 2006

I recommend renting a game or borrowing a friend's copy if reviews are mixed and you are not sure if you will enjoy the game or not. That's what I plan on doing with Red Steel later on.

Last night at 2:30 ish my friends finally left the room and I was about to go to sleep after messing around with COD3. I popped in Red Steel.

2 hours later I was surprised by how much I DID NOT dislike this game.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smash_BrotherNovember 21, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: RickPowers Seriously, you could do what I do, which is find the one reviewer who's previous reviews pretty closely align with your own tastes, or you can check all reviews in aggregate and go based on that. But for the most part, reviews are just a snapshot in time, colored by expectations and perspective, and that all needs to be taken into account when you evaluate a review.


Eloquently put.

I like the game because:

1. Action is quick and simple: unlike most FPSes, it's readily possible to be a flawless killer and put only one bullet through every head in the entire game (except the ones you swordfight).

2. Explosions, explosions, explosions! I know it's a time-honored tradition in FPSes, but there's nothing better than detonating a barrel, car or forklift near an enemy or two and watch them go sailing through the air.

My guess is that the game saw most of its development on a PC before being ported to the Wii hardware. I'm guessing Red Steel 2 won't suffer from the problems this one did because Ubi has actual hardware to work with and won't have any illusions about what the Wiimote can and cannot do, not to mention they'll likely be able to more precisely tune the motion sensing to allow more direct control of swords and such.

UltimatePartyBearNovember 21, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

2. Explosions, explosions, explosions! I know it's a time-honored tradition in FPSes, but there's nothing better than detonating a barrel, car or forklift near an enemy or two and watch them go sailing through the air.


No doubt. What's funny is that for some reason I wasn't expecting that in Red Steel. The first time it happened, I was shooting down from a catwalk at a couple of bad guys in the pit under a car. When I hit a fuel can behind them, there was a very satisfying kaboom. Then I looked around and realized there were several fuel cans around me, and I got the heck out of there. That was crazy. Nearly everything in that part of the level could blow up, leaving very few safe places to hide.

Then there was the shotgun battle in the laundromat, with washers getting blasted left and right, and the rooftop shootout between the exploding HVAC units with electrical arcs shooting out. My favorite so far has to be the two baddies who hid behind a paper screen. I couldn't see them, but that didn't stop me from reducing it to splinters to get them.

I know a lot of that has been done before, but the presentation here just sells it. It feels like I'm playing an action movie.

Smash_BrotherNovember 22, 2006

It gets even better as you get further into it. Once you start getting the special attacks, the game becomes immensely more strategic.

decoymanNovember 22, 2006

Hey SB, I'm really glad to hear that you and others are digging the game. I bought it but haven't tried it out yet (I got the dreaded WiiConnect24 error #110213, and I don't want to progress in any games until my replacement Wii gets here from Nintendo), and reading all the mediocre reviews had me a bit worried that I'd made a poor purchasing decision... I'll give my impressions when I actually try it out, but I'm more hopeful hearing some positive impressions.

ShyGuyNovember 22, 2006

Don't let the jaded haters distract you decoyman, It's a good game. Reminiscent of Max Payne in a number of ways.

Smash_BrotherNovember 22, 2006

There are some glitches in the game, but none that are game stopping by any means.

Though, if you get vertigo easily, I'd recommend sitting as far from the TV as possible. God knows, I haven't had the problem but apparently some people have.

Smash_BrotherNovember 24, 2006

Also, let me say this: if this game makes you motion sick, Steve, please, let someone else review it.

The game doesn't make me motion sick and is one of the most satisfying gameplay experiences I've had in a long while. Plus, you don't understand just how much love Ubi really put into this game until you get to the point where you start running missions to try to restore the Sato empire, learning new sword techniques and focus timing gun maneuvers.

It's perfectly acceptable to say that Red Steel isn't a game for everyone due to some having motion sickness (like I said, CoD3 falls under the same heading and is even worse) but whoever reviews it needs to play it all the way through and do so without needing a puke pail.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

VGcats is already willing to give the game a big thumbs down as well:
"Also I got my Wii but didn't bring it with me. Did get to play it for a bit though. Word of advice for anyone getting games. Rent Red Steel first. My first sit down with it was pretty bad. I'll review it fully when I get back. Wii Sports however is tons of fun."

I just wonder WHY the game gets such a bad rap in the US. Europe seems to like it (I wouldn't be surprised if the reason the game gets better scores is because it was developed in Europe, but still...) and even freaking Famitsu, a JAPANESE magazine (true we all have talked about how Famitsu likes to give high marks to every popular game), who have stated they don't enjoy FP shooters much, gave it a solid review.

I wonder what is it about the game that drive American editors mad...

KDR_11kNovember 24, 2006

I just wonder WHY the game gets such a bad rap in the US. Europe seems to like it

Maybe because the Wii has been released in the US?

Ian SaneNovember 24, 2006

"I wonder what is it about the game that drive American editors mad..."

The European thing might be, as you suggested, overrating a European made game. Plus they haven't reviewed it yet. Perhaps it's because Americans are used to first person shooters. It's a very popular franchise here. So maybe they just aren't all that impressed because they've played so many FPS games they have higher standards. Famitsu probably doesn't like FPS games that much. Maybe Red Steel's gameplay mechanics are such that it makes them interested so they give it more of a chance. It's possible that in the past they would play what we would consider a fantastic FPS and be bored with it because they don't like the key gameplay behind it. But they don't see Red Steel in the same light. It's a quirky gun and sword game.

SvevanEvan Burchfield, Staff AlumnusNovember 24, 2006

Nintendo gamers have lower standards for first person shooters. This is why the reviews say it sucks, but the people on the boards tend to like it.

Of course, someone is going to respond to this post and say "I played both Half-Lifes, both Halos, love F.E.A.R., Prey, COD, etc etc but I love Red Steel." Whatever. My point is that N64 may have had some good shooters, but GameCube was teh suck in this regard. If the last FPS you played was Perfect Dark, my bet (without having played it) is that you'll like Red Steel. I'm a Halo gamer, moderate FPS fan, and I may rent the game to see what I think.

Also, disregard Rick's nonsense about opinions - there are some people here who believe in objective truth (well, at least one person). In my case if I disagree with a reviewer I tend to think he's WRONG, not just of "different mind." That's ridiculous. Can two opposites be true?

WindyManSteven Rodriguez, Staff AlumnusNovember 24, 2006

I finished the game. There's a pretty steep learning curve, but once you get over it, Red Steel is a pretty decent launch title. Head shots are wonderfully easy to pull off, though there are problems with the aiming. Sword combat is hit and miss, too. I'm going to see if I can track down some other people to play multiplayer with before I get the review up.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Nintendo gamers have lower standards for first person shooters. This is why the reviews say it sucks, but the people on the boards tend to like it.


But still, if the game was indeed the worst launch title ever, wouldn't Nintendo fans agree as well? I doubt fanboys would go to great lengths to say they love a game that they truly think is really bad.

As I stated millions of times, Red Steel is just one of those games that the only one that will appreciate it are the fans. Geist and Chibi Robo were the same; hated by the media, LOVED to death by the fans. Same goes for movies. There's a good chance that half of the movie you hold dear and love to death are HATED by the mainstream media simply because it doesn't meet the standards other higher profile movies have. I doubt its more than just "Nintendo fans have lower standards". If a game sucks even a hardcore Nintendo fan will state it.

As for the FPS comment, Svevan, why "whatever"? Don't the FPS fan's opinion matter when discussing Red Steel? Obviously, if they played all of those FPS you mentioned, then they will be able to tell what Red Steel did right and wrong (after all, nearly all reviews state "Red Steel sets out to re define the console FPS" or something similar).

And about Rick Powers' comments, what do you mean? Are you saying that his claims that reviews are merely opinions are nonsense and that they are more than that?

Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Nintendo gamers have lower standards for first person shooters. This is why the reviews say it sucks, but the people on the boards tend to like it.


I disagree. Nintendo gamers don't have LOWER expectations for FPS', we have DIFFERENT ones. We prefer FPS' that have gameplay-focused features and can give us something beyond the everyday. We are less impressed by slightly prettier textures and ZOMG FUTURE TECH and gun pr0n and etc.

THAT's why we find Red Steel better than the reviews. Red Steel gives a feel to the shooting genre that can't be found anywhere else. When I play an FPS, shooting is always the same. But in Red Steel, the tactile feeling of physically aiming at enemies almost verges on an arcade-like sensibility.

Screw graphics, screw glitches, screw typical FPS story and setting: this is something DIFFERENT based on its gameplay and NOT based on little tweaks in FPS formula. And as a gameplay-focused Nintendo fan, I can appreciate that.

Of course, Nintendo fans would have liked more multiplayer options and less graphical glitches, and we eagerly await the game that takes Red Steel and fixes its mistakes while making its control system go to the next level, but we don't immediately discount the game for it's lack of traditional hardcore FPS features either.

... Of course I'm actually speaking for myself... because if we were talking about Geist, then I'd WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you Svevan: Nintendo fans are lieing to themselves about THAT game.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Nintendo gamers have lower standards for first person shooters. This is why the reviews say it sucks, but the people on the boards tend to like it.


I disagree. Nintendo gamers don't have LOWER expectations for FPS', we have DIFFERENT ones. We prefer FPS' that have gameplay-focused features and can give us something beyond the everyday. We are less impressed by slightly prettier textures and ZOMG FUTURE TECH and gun pr0n and etc.

THAT's why we find Red Steel better than the reviews. Red Steel gives a feel to the shooting genre that can't be found anywhere else. When I play an FPS, shooting is always the same. But in Red Steel, the tactile feeling of physically aiming at enemies almost verges on an arcade-like sensibility.

Screw graphics, screw glitches, screw typical FPS story and setting: this is something DIFFERENT based on its gameplay and NOT based on little tweaks in FPS formula. And as a gameplay-focused Nintendo fan, I can appreciate that.

Of course, Nintendo fans would have liked more multiplayer options and less graphical glitches, and we eagerly await the game that takes Red Steel and fixes its mistakes while making its control system go to the next level, but we don't immediately discount the game for it's lack of traditional hardcore FPS features either.

... Of course I'm actually speaking for myself... because if we were talking about Geist, then I'd WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with you Svevan: Nintendo fans are lieing to themselves about THAT game.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


I take it you finally got around to playing Red Steel?

As for Geist, I admit I loved the game, but that doesn't mean I was happy with its issues.

1. The difficulty is uneven. There are parts in which you are able to move freely without any worry and attack incoming enemies with ease, while there are others that are hard as hell and the enemies storm you like crazy.

2. Same thing with bosses. Some are VERY straight forward, while others took A LOT of patience and skills to defeat them. The last two bosses are prime examples of this. Volks actually took a lot of time to finish, while the last one was easy if you could maneuver Raimi just fine.

3. The FPS engine is slow as hell. True, the game is NOT about shooting everything in sight, but that doesn't mean they could've polished it further. I mean, the aiming and reloading are god awful, ESPECIALLY during timed missions, which every second is sacred, and if those seconds are spent slowly reloading your gun, its game over.

4. The button smashing segments near the end bugged the HELL out of me. By the end my hands and fingers were hurting like crazy! It's a good thing this ONLY happens near the end of the game cause if this happened often I would've given up on it.

5. Due to the aiming issue, you has to position yourself in an exact manner when possessing a person or item. This got irritating during certain parts of the game.

6. Maybe I am alone on this, but I hated flying around like crazy trying to figure out what to do next. I would spent like 20 minutes flying around a room, knowing I had to posses something but not being able to find it.

7. And finally, I hated the part where you had to drag the dog all the way to the guy. I admit I LOVED the end result, but the in between part was tiring and annoying as hell.

Still, despite these issues I LOVED the overall concept. The puzzles, while sometimes irritating, were the best. I mean, there's nothing more satisfying that creating a chain of events that gets a person scared, leaving you to control their bodies and move the story forward.

Geist wasn't the best FPS EVER, but its far from forgettable and I applaud the fact that N-space dared to do something new and exciting. I hope they get to develop for the Wii and learn from their Geist mistakes and polish their games further.

So I speak for myself when I say I am NOT lying when I say I loved the game, but that doesn't mean I can't point out its flaws.

Ian SaneNovember 24, 2006

"But still, if the game was indeed the worst launch title ever, wouldn't Nintendo fans agree as well? I doubt fanboys would go to great lengths to say they love a game that they truly think is really bad."

Fanboyism is the videogame equivalent of beer goggles. It took months for me to admit to myself that Star Fox Adventures sucked. I had been hyped about Dinosaur Planet for at least a good solid year, the graphics and sound were good, the game wasn't glitchy and the controls were responsive, it was published by Nintendo and made by Rare. It had so many elements in theory going for it. Plus it was also Rare's last Nintendo game and at the time of release the Cube was in stiff competition with the Xbox and couldn't afford any duds. My interest in Nintendo made it so that SFA HAD to be a good game, not just so that I got my money's worth but to support my tastes and my "pick" in the console wars. So I forced myself to like it until I got to a point where the game became such a damn chore to play I gave up on it.

Sometimes when you WANT a game to be great you subconsciously fool yourself into thinking it is. Red Steel is an important title. It's an important demonstration of the Wii controller. It's also a "gamer's game". And it's third party. And it's "mature". Nintendo's best Wii title is a Cube game ported to Wii controls. It is a great demonstration for how a traditional control scheme can be converted to motion control but not a good demonstration of the concept period. Red Steel is in theory the best proof of concept in the Wii launch. It can prove that motion control can be used for a game that hardcore gamers can be interested in and that third parties won't be goofed up by the weird controller. If it sucks then everyone pointing to it as a proof of concept for Nintendo's new control standard has egg on their face. Motion control can work well for traditional games and party titles like WiiSports but can it innovate hardcore games? If Red Steel sucks then so far that answer is "no" or "we'll have to wait until Nintendo releases more games".

I haven't played Red Steel (or even the Wii; where are my demo units Nintendo?) so I can't say if Red Steel sucks or not. Nor can I say for certain that people here are subconsciously pretending the game is great. But that CAN happen. I'd say the best reviewer for a Nintendo game is someone who owns several consoles not made by Nintendo and thus has no emotional interest in any one console doing better than another. There is no bias for or against and they have a broad range of games they're familiar with so they have lots of compare with.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"But still, if the game was indeed the worst launch title ever, wouldn't Nintendo fans agree as well? I doubt fanboys would go to great lengths to say they love a game that they truly think is really bad."

Fanboyism is the videogame equivalent of beer goggles. It took months for me to admit to myself that Star Fox Adventures sucked. I had been hyped about Dinosaur Planet for at least a good solid year, the graphics and sound were good, the game wasn't glitchy and the controls were responsive, it was published by Nintendo and made by Rare. It had so many elements in theory going for it. Plus it was also Rare's last Nintendo game and at the time of release the Cube was in stiff competition with the Xbox and couldn't afford any duds. My interest in Nintendo made it so that SFA HAD to be a good game, not just so that I got my money's worth but to support my tastes and my "pick" in the console wars. So I forced myself to like it until I got to a point where the game became such a damn chore to play I gave up on it.

Sometimes when you WANT a game to be great you subconsciously fool yourself into thinking it is. Red Steel is an important title. It's an important demonstration of the Wii controller. It's also a "gamer's game". And it's third party. And it's "mature". Nintendo's best Wii title is a Cube game ported to Wii controls. It is a great demonstration for how a traditional control scheme can be converted to motion control but not a good demonstration of the concept period. Red Steel is in theory the best proof of concept in the Wii launch. It can prove that motion control can be used for a game that hardcore gamers can be interested in and that third parties won't be goofed up by the weird controller. If it sucks then everyone pointing to it as a proof of concept for Nintendo's new control standard has egg on their face. Motion control can work well for traditional games and party titles like WiiSports but can it innovate hardcore games? If Red Steel sucks then so far that answer is "no" or "we'll have to wait until Nintendo releases more games".

I haven't played Red Steel (or even the Wii; where are my demo units Nintendo?) so I can't say if Red Steel sucks or not. Nor can I say for certain that people here are subconsciously pretending the game is great. But that CAN happen. I'd say the best reviewer for a Nintendo game is someone who owns several consoles not made by Nintendo and thus has no emotional interest in any one console doing better than another. There is no bias for or against and they have a broad range of games they're familiar with so they have lots of compare with.


Yeah, that's true. I won't deny that some fanboys are pretending the game is fantastic because of the hype.

But even then, if the game was as god awful as the reviews mention it is no amount of hope would cover up the fact that the game sucks big time.

Some would go to that length, yes, but when you have a really, really bad game in your hands you just can't deny it. So this is why I say I doubt ALL the fans are pretending to like the game in order to counter the reviews.

Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Still, despite these issues I LOVED the overall concept. The puzzles, while sometimes irritating, were the best. I mean, there's nothing more satisfying that creating a chain of events that gets a person scared, leaving you to control their bodies and move the story forward.

Geist wasn't the best FPS EVER, but its far from forgettable and I applaud the fact that N-space dared to do something new and exciting. I hope they get to develop for the Wii and learn from their Geist mistakes and polish their games further.


Hah. Well, when I first heard about it, I loved the concept too. The difference is that when I played it, I didn't even find most of the puzzles to be very exciting. They can, and should, go further with the concept.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Still, despite these issues I LOVED the overall concept. The puzzles, while sometimes irritating, were the best. I mean, there's nothing more satisfying that creating a chain of events that gets a person scared, leaving you to control their bodies and move the story forward.

Geist wasn't the best FPS EVER, but its far from forgettable and I applaud the fact that N-space dared to do something new and exciting. I hope they get to develop for the Wii and learn from their Geist mistakes and polish their games further.


Hah. Well, when I first heard about it, I loved the concept too. The difference is that when I played it, I didn't even find most of the puzzles to be very exciting. They can, and should, go further with the concept.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


Yeah, some puzzles were really fun while others were a bit too straightforward.

The middle of the game features some fun puzzles, like the ones where you take possession of clocks in order to open doors and such.

Oh and the puzzle where you had to figure out how to kill the dignitary during the simulator? PRICELESS.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 24, 2006

Huh? Double post? My bad...

NinGurl69 *hugglesNovember 25, 2006

I'd rather have a game be 90% Geist puzzles rather than 90% Yesterday's Strafe-Dancing to Delusional Victory.

There's no denying the inexperience of a developer. Paying $50 for Geist wasn't the purchase of a supposedly FANTASTIC game, it was an investment for a FANTASTIC FUTURE. If a game can't even earn enough revenue to justify a "niche," we'll see no follow-up title, and any good it had will not have the opportunity to mature (until someone else steals/borrows the idea).

That was my approach to purchasing in the last generation (since i had more spending power/near-wreckless credit card spending). I didn't want good ideas to go unnoticed.

KDR_11kNovember 25, 2006

The European thing might be, as you suggested, overrating a European made game.

I don't think so. Maybe it's because European games tend to be geared for European tastes but I'm not sure if that applies to Red Steel.

Smash_BrotherNovember 26, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
Nintendo gamers have lower standards for first person shooters. This is why the reviews say it sucks, but the people on the boards tend to like it.


I played Halo back when it was called "Marathon" and was Mac only and required you to aim up and down by holding down a modifier key and pushing up or down (and I could plant a missile at an opponent's feet from across an entire arena this way, but that's beside the point).

I take the game for what it is: the graphics seem a bit washed out in some places but fabulous in others, you can glitch into some objects and get stuck there, but the combat system offers enough options that the end result is a satisfying FPS experience.

The true beauty of the game is when headshots become a second nature, something that can ONLY be pulled off with the Wiimote. When three enemies pop up and you move your hand across the screen and pop each one right in the head in rapid succession, you know you're harnessing a control scheme that would NOT be possible with a regular controller or perhaps even a keyboard and mouse.

And once you get the rhythm of the swordfights down, it also becomes a second nature, with figuring out which enemies you can beat via health and which need to be beaten via breaking their weapon. The enemies later in the game require that you either get your katas in there or you parry-crack their weapon to the point of near-breaking at which point they'll be careful and won't allow you to deliver the final blow directly. Then, you have to throw in a strong blow of your own to finish their weapon off and hope they don't dodge it or let it strike them.

Also, I hate to say it, but the story was decent. There were a few twists which I didn't see coming and the last battle brought a very poetic ending to the whole quest for honor and revenge. Sadly, it takes a few hours to really get INTO the story, but it was leagues better than those of most FPSes I've played.

I played PD0 all the way through and thought it was perfectly par: it wasn't bad, but it wasn't great. It was just a perfectly average FPS experience. The story sucked and the gun battles were predictable. All in all, the game didn't even provide a worthy hold-over until Halo 3.

Red Steel could have used a few more months in the oven, but it still was a truly satisfying gaming experience and in the end, that's all I care about.

As for Geist and SFA, I thought SFA was an acceptable Zelda clone with lots of signature Rare puzzles. Nothing fabulous, but certainly not worthy of all the bashing it receives.

And Geist was so much fun that I didn't give a rat's ass about the aiming being bad: there wasn't much aiming that needed to be done in the game anyway. More of it was possession, timing, and puzzle-solving, and that game made for some WAAAY outside the box puzzles. Any game where you can break plates across a chef's face like porcelain frisbees and then feed rat poison to a room full of guards is too awesome. Then there was possessing a showerhead in the women's locker room and dive-bombing a guy with a bat.

If people keep dismissing FPSes that try to innovate beyond the current FPS experience, then the genre will forever stagnate.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterNovember 26, 2006

I thought SFA had a decent story to it. It provided a nice diversion in the SF universe (although the final boss battle was lame as hell). My favorite part is the part where Fox sees Krystal for the first time and his mouth is wide open, then is brought back down to earth by Peppy. Hilarious! But other than that, the game provided very little charm to get me back to it. I literally finished it for good.

As for the shooting and aiming in Geist, I agree the game was more about exploring the story, puzzles and possession but that doesn't mean the shooting could've been better. The reloading is SLOW AS HELL. This is clearly evident during the simulator scene in which you had to stop a horde of soldiers from leaving the building. There were too many of them and you had to be fast. If you ran out of ammo the game WAS over. It took me and my nephew several tries before we could successfully complete it.

I ain't no FPS expert since I played like 5 games my entire lifetime, but even when the shooting takes second place to something else it needs to be polished and solid, and Geist could've used a bit more polish (which can be forbidden because its my understanding the N-space are somewhat new developers).

UltimatePartyBearNovember 27, 2006

I finished Red Steel on Friday, and it's not just fanboyism that makes me praise it. I had fun with it from beginning to end, especially near the end. Once I had the controls mastered, the game started requiring me to use all my skills. On the last few missions, my accuracy score broke 70%. A lot of that was because I stopped using spray and pray tactics. Just like the early hype for the game said, I had to switch to precision pistol shooting to survive. It helps that some of the most satisfying weapons in the game are pistols, too.

I only got stuck in objects when I was goofing around and trying to get into places I shouldn't, and the only other glitch I noticed was when I shot a bottle in the first level, causing it to break and spawn an invulnerable clone in its place. Considering how ambitious the game is for a launch title, the glitches could have been a lot worse, so I'm willing to overlook them.

I only have two complaints. The first is that two of the sword katas are nearly impossible to pull off because they require vertical slashes. I had a heck of a time getting past the training of those moves and just gave up any hope of actually using them. The other is that the ending is a little too abrupt. On the other hand, the ending leaves room for a sequel that could pick up immediately where this game left off. If the dev team had the time to perfect it, a Red Steel sequel or successor could easily be game-of-the-year caliber. And yes, haters, I did just imply that Red Steel itself isn't GOTY caliber. I'm willing to overlook its flaws to enjoy it, not to give it a perfect 10.

Smash_BrotherNovember 28, 2006

What did you have your sword sensitivity set to, short or long? Short is basically flicks of the wrist only. Anything where your arm moves should be long.

My favorite Kata was the little scorpion because it was easy to pull off and did good damage (also, only one I could remember). I would have liked to see more from swordfighting in the game because most enemies could be dispatched with the same strategy (though, you had to be quick).

And yes, it ends very quickly. Do you only have 85% completion or is that just me?

UltimatePartyBearNovember 28, 2006

My sword sensitivity was set to short. I just couldn't get vertical slashes to work reliably in either direction, although top to bottom was slightly doable. I have a natural tendency to hold the remote with a twist to the left that probably has a lot to do with it, but even with complete concentration on holding it level, it took a lot of tries to even complete the training. One lesson developers should learn quickly is that gamers need a way to set the controller's "home" position.

I have 78% completion for some reason. Considering there's nothing else to do, I didn't know what that meant. If you have something different, I think it might mean I should replay all the levels and try to get higher ranks. It wasn't until the end that I started getting ranked Warrior instead of Disciple or Novice. I assume there's a higher ranking than that, too, since my time was always C or D because I took time to look at everything.

Smash_BrotherNovember 30, 2006

I tended to have higher accuracy but longer time.

I'm wondering if there's anything unlocked once you get 100%...

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Red Steel Box Art

Genre Action
Developer Ubisoft
Players1 - 4
Controllers

Worldwide Releases

na: Red Steel
Release Nov 19, 2006
PublisherUbisoft
RatingTeen
jpn: Red Steel
Release Dec 02, 2006
PublisherUbisoft
Rating18+
eu: Red Steel
Release Dec 08, 2006
PublisherUbisoft
Rating16+
aus: Red Steel
Release Dec 07, 2006
PublisherUbisoft
RatingMature (15+)
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