Topic: "Oblivion" gets 4 1/2 yawns on a scale of 5

[Smash_Brother]

This is probably the most over-hyped game I've ever seen. Rather than use paragraphical format, I'll just go down the numbered list:

1. An expansive consistent world is neither expansive nor consistent if the game pauses for 4-5 seconds every 20-30 steps your character takes to load the surrounding area and 10-20 seconds whenever you go through a door of any kind and for 2-3 seconds when you pull out a different weapon. This game LITERALLY sacrifices gameplay in favor of graphics.

2. There's no point to photo realism when everyone and everything in the game is FUGLY. My friends and I tried unsuccessfully for 10 minutes to generate an attractive female character but could not, eventually going with a giant cat-man (furries rejoice!).

3. Within the first 4-5 hours of the game (if you just plow through it), you only actually encounter 5-6 different types of enemies. Giant rats, a generic goblin model, some sorcerer types and that's about it. I have a hard time understanding how a game can boast great graphics and have so little variety in the enemies.

4. Combat is BOOOORING. Block, wait until whatever it is hurls itself against your shield, then mash the attack button until it's dead. Or just run up to it and mash the button. You can heal yourself easily enough and mana regenerates on its own so why bother being careful?

5. NPCs are so stiff and deadpan that it's freaky. Not only do the eyes and mouths look incredibly unnatural, but the characters and their facial expressions look stiffer and more lifeless than the entire cast of Episode 2 combined. They also seem to not have neck joints since they cannot turn or tilt their heads at all.

6. The interface is clumsy. When it's possible to steal something by accident, you can tell that QA wasn't being all that it could be.

7. The story is bland and generic. Patrick Stewart voices an NPC who dies in the first hour of the game and I think that was their only selling point.

8. It's possible to pick up crap which has no value and no purpose. Some might enjoy this aspect as it allegedly adds to the immersion factor, but rather than littering the world with worthless crap, immersion could have been upped substantially by adding more enemy variety and NPCs which aren't dead-ringers for mannequins.

It's a pretty game, but it suffers from so many unforgivable ailments that I'm insanely glad I ordered my friends to rent it so we could convince another friend not to buy it for the PC.

[capamerica]

I 100% agree with you.
I was amazed at how bad this game was, especially after how everyone was hyping it up.

I don't know how long I spent trying to create a non-ugly character before I just gave up and went with a non-human.
I've seen manikins that were more animated then the characters in Oblivion.
And God where those load times awful, you would think that a game that was designed from the ground up for the Xbox360 wouldn't have such awful load times. I would hate to have seen the load times if I didn't have a HDD for my 360.

Penny-Arcade wasn't joking when they said this game will put you to sleep. Cause I actually did. No joking, I was playing it with my friends cause we rented it and about 4 or 5 hours into it a fell asleep cause it was so boring.

[blackfootsteps]

Heh, i'll have to dissent.

I love this game, my guy is a glowing white Breton who definately needs some sun. I do agree that characters' faces look weird, I think its the overuse of lighting effects.

As far as the technical issues go, yeah they're annoying but if you clear the cache, load times are dramatically reduced. (hold A until Bethesda logo appears).

I find that some of the missions are very creative eg: eg going into a living painting, someone's dreams, being the target of a hunt on a deserted island.

The customisation of skills and character is impressive, there have been numerous times where I thought, 'I wish I was an argonian so I could breathe underwater to accomplish this or that,' but instead I just worked on my alteration.

I also like the peaceful (some might say dull) nature of the game, horses for courses I guess. I will agree that this game is not the perfect creation that a lot of reviews have made it out to be, however if Morrowind was your thing, then so is this.

BTW did any of you guys get to Oblivion?

[zakkiel]

1.Mine never pauses for outdoor loading, door load screen are never longer than five seconds, and there's no "pause" when you draw a weapon, and I can't imagine why there would be. But this is great confirmation that the PC version is the better buy, unless of course you're making up those times. Given the response of other gamers to the 360 version, I tend to think you are. Oh, and obviosuly it's nto a "door of any kind," just doors connecting levels.

2. Bethesda is actually kind of known for having ugly characters. Someone will make a good mod to fix this eventually. That said, if you think there's no point to photo-realism if you can't make an attractive female character, you need to grow up.

3. You're a damn slow player, or exaggerating attrociously. Obviously in a 120 hour+ game the first couple of hours won't expose you to much variety in enemies. Once you get out of the sewers, though, there's a much better mix. Heck, there's bandits right across from where you exit.

4. "FPS are BOOORING. Aim, shoot, reload, and repeat." If you want stratery in combat, get yourself one of the thousands of nearly identical Japansese RPGs. Myself, I'm bored to tears by that, but whatever. For the rest, turn up the goddamn challenge rating, that's why it's there. If I tried to just run up and mash things, I would die every time.

5. Yes. The animations could be better. On the other hand, the expressions are pretty much perfect. The only reason you have a problem with them is that they're realistic enough to draw attention to their deficiencies.

6. Ironic that your example of clunkiness is actually an example of the interface not being clunky enough for you. Seriously, the only way to keep you from stealing by accident would be annoying dialogue messages asking if you're sure.

7. Absolutely. The story is crap. Video game storylines are.

8. "Don't give me options! I hate that!" Seriously, it's not like they sat down and said, "Well, we could have more enemies and better NPC animations, but heck: we have to stick spools of yarn all over the place." Hint: level designers do not design characters, and spending marginally more time on interiors does not diminish time spent on models.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel 1.Mine never pauses for outdoor loading, door load screen are never longer than five seconds, and there's no "pause" when you draw a weapon, and I can't imagine why there would be. But this is great confirmation that the PC version is the better buy, unless of course you're making up those times. Given the response of other gamers to the 360 version, I tend to think you are. Oh, and obviosuly it's nto a "door of any kind," just doors connecting levels.

Thank you for accusing me of lying.

My friend had just defragged his 360 before we played it and it did this. The game paused between switching weapons, loading small areas and once every 20-30 steps.

Maybe his 360 is just proper f*cked, but I report what I experienced and THIS is what I experienced. There was more than one outcry of frustration at the load times as we passed the controller around.

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2. Bethesda is actually kind of known for having ugly characters. Someone will make a good mod to fix this eventually. That said, if you think there's no point to photo-realism if you can't make an attractive female character, you need to grow up.

No, I mean why have photo realism when everything in the game is vaguely unsettling to look at? From the cold, lifeless, wandering eyes of the NPCs to the pasty expression frozen on your own character's face, this game could make Charles Manson uncomfortable with how immensely sterile it is and how it fails at every turn to replicate the appearance of living things.

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3. You're a damn slow player, or exaggerating attrociously. Obviously in a 120 hour+ game the first couple of hours won't expose you to much variety in enemies. Once you get out of the sewers, though, there's a much better mix. Heck, there's bandits right across from where you exit.

I'm quite sure that the imps beyond the gate of oblivion were the same models of the goblins in the sewers. It surprised me that I would only go such a short time into the game and already the models would be rehashed.

I could NOT play this for 120 hours...

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4. "FPS are BOOORING. Aim, shoot, reload, and repeat." If you want stratery in combat, get yourself one of the thousands of nearly identical Japansese RPGs. Myself, I'm bored to tears by that, but whatever. For the rest, turn up the goddamn challenge rating, that's why it's there. If I tried to just run up and mash things, I would die every time.

This would make the combat less boring...how? Unless the enemies suddenly learn to grab my shield and tear it from my hand, or lead a strafing target, then I suspect turning up the difficulty will make the enemies hit harder and live longer but still be boring to fight.

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5. Yes. The animations could be better. On the other hand, the expressions are pretty much perfect. The only reason you have a problem with them is that they're realistic enough to draw attention to their deficiencies.

Umm, no, the expressions are bland, lifeless and awkward. The NPC you're talking to has eyes which will wander randomly instead of staring at you, and the fact that expressing emotion involves more than just the lips and flesh surrounding the eyes seems to have completely escaped these developers. The animations are devoid of life and personality, making every character more like a mannequin than the last.

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6. Ironic that your example of clunkiness is actually an example of the interface not being clunky enough for you. Seriously, the only way to keep you from stealing by accident would be annoying dialogue messages asking if you're sure.

They're called MODIFIERS and they work WONDERS. Even Sega in Phantasy Star Online used them: you hold down a shoulder button and the buttons become a different set of commands, ensuring that, in order to steal something, you need to be holding one command in order for it to happen.

You could have had to be sneaking in order to steal something, which is a modifier anyway. Since stealing is an act which can potentially get your character into trouble, mapping it to a single A button press is completely unintuitive, especially when you might be looking at someone and just barely catch the corner of a stealable object and take it right in front of that NPC.

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8. "Don't give me options! I hate that!" Seriously, it's not like they sat down and said, "Well, we could have more enemies and better NPC animations, but heck: we have to stick spools of yarn all over the place." Hint: level designers do not design characters, and spending marginally more time on interiors does not diminish time spent on models.

Apparently, you fall under the "some who might enjoy this aspect" heading.    

[Sir_Stabbalot]

Well, I'm a PC user here, and really don't get your complaints.

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No, I mean why have photo-realism when everything in the game is vaguely unsettling to look at? From the cold, lifeless, wandering eyes of the NPCs to the pasty expression frozen on your own character's face, this game could make Charles Manson uncomfortable with how immensely sterile it is and how it fails at every turn to replicate the appearance of living things.

So, you wanted the Devs to make EVERY single one of the almost 1,000 NPCs have their own hand-programmed expressions?

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I'm quite sure that the imps beyond the gate of oblivion were the same models of the goblins in the sewers. It surprised me that I would only go such a short time into the game and already the models would be rehashed.

What? As far as I know, only Wolves and Timber Wolves share the same models. You fought Goblin Warriors, Berserkers and a Shaman in the sewers, and I assume those 'imps beyond the gate of oblivion" were Scamps, which look nothing like Goblins. And Imps don't look like either, they're little flying demon-critters with bat-wings.

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And 120 hours?!? Who the HELL could tolerate 120 hours of this crap?

120 on a stock Oblivion game, no. but probably at least 60, if you're in the right mindset.

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This would make the combat less boring...how? Unless the enemies suddenly learn to grab my shield and tear it from my hand, or lead a strafing target, then I suspect turning up the difficulty will make the enemies hit harder and live longer but still be boring to fight.

Oblivion isn't a fighter, it's an RPG. And have you even TRIED power attack or sneak attacks?

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Are you flat f*ck insane?!? No, the expressions are bland, lifeless and awkward. The NPC you're talking to has eyes which will wander randomly instead of staring at you, and the fact that expressing emotion involves more than just the lips and flesh surrounding the eyes seems to have completely escaped these developers. The animations are devoid of life and personality, making every character more like a mannequin than the last.

I walk into the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary as an assassin, and sit down at a table to chat with my brother-in-arms Gogron gro-Bolmog (an Orc, who is also sitting down and downing a tankard of mead). He's a good guy, with some of the greatest dialog I've ever seen ("I got a mission from LaChance once. Had to go all the way to Summerset Isle. Killed me about thirty elves there. Ah, good times..."), yet he's not even an important NPC.  After a few quests, I go to the thieves’ guild and do a mission, and run into Amusei, an Agronian thief who always messes everything up.

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They're called MODIFIERS and they work WONDERS. Even Sega in Phantasy Star Online used them: you hold down a shoulder button and the buttons become a different set of commands, ensuring that, in order to steal something, you need to be holding one command in order for it to happen. You could have had to be sneaking in order to steal something, which is a modifier anyway so why they didn't use it is beyond me.

Or, just be careful you're looking at the NPC instead of that muffin. Anyway, all you'd probably need to do is pay a 2-Gold fine.

And for those of you complaining about it being boring, haven't you ever read a book? It's for the story, there’s a HISTORY to Tamriel, you know. The TES series isn't about action, it's about the big picture. It's about growing your character, and perhaps even a tiny bit of roleplaying thrown in.

[Caliban]

I've got this game on PC. Loading times? lol, even when entering a house/blacksmith/merchant. I still don't get what's up with using giant rats as enemies in american RPGs, I really do find it as a severe lack of originality. About the character creation, way too many options for me, I just went with a male feline and I'm happy. Do I see myself finishing this game? Nope.

Edit: I forgot to say something. I kind of like the combat system in 1st person and it isn't just "guard with shield and then strike-strike-strike", from my experience I have seen some good AI and bad AI.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
My friend had just defragged his 360 before we played it

lol... is that a built in utility for the 360?

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Sir_Stabbalot So, you wanted the Devs to make EVERY single one of the almost 1,000 NPCs have their own hand-programmed expressions?

I wanted NPCs who moved their necks, shoulders and parts of their face beyond eyes and mouth, or NPCs which didn't give off a vibe of creepiness.

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What? As far as I know, only Wolves and Timber Wolves share the same models. You fought Goblin Warriors, Berserkers and a Shaman in the sewers, and I assume those 'imps beyond the gate of oblivion" were Scamps, which look nothing like Goblins. And Imps don't look like either, they're little flying demon-critters with bat-wings.

You positive those weren't mildly restructured models? They looked pretty damn similar not to be...

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Oblivion isn't a fighter, it's an RPG. And have you even TRIED power attack or sneak attacks?

Being an RPG is no excuse for having crap for a combat system. Sneak and "power" are pretty goddamn staple attacks. What about disarms? Weapon parries? Limb targeting (targeting in general would have helped, as often you just swing in the general direction of the enemy)? Weak points? Armor removal? Crippling blows? Head attacks to disorient? I didn't play that far in, but were any of these in the game?

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I walk into the Dark Brotherhood sanctuary as an assassin, and sit down at a table to chat with my brother-in-arms Gogron gro-Bolmog (an Orc, who is also sitting down and downing a tankard of mead). He's a good guy, with some of the greatest dialog I've ever seen ("I got a mission from LaChance once. Had to go all the way to Summerset Isle. Killed me about thirty elves there. Ah, good times..."), yet he's not even an important NPC.  After a few quests, I go to the thieves’ guild and do a mission, and run into Amusei, an Agronian thief who always messes everything up.

I never said the voice acting sucked (though it sounds like the same 3-6 voice actors just trying to sound like different people), the facial expressions suck. They don't emote like sentient beings at all. If they had added head shakes, nods, head tilting, shoulder shrugging, SOMETHING, I'd be less harsh on it, but everyone acts like they're wearing an invisible neck brace.

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And for those of you complaining about it being boring, haven't you ever read a book? It's for the story, there’s a HISTORY to Tamriel, you know. The TES series isn't about action, it's about the big picture. It's about growing your character, and perhaps even a tiny bit of roleplaying thrown in.

So you'll need to have played the other three games for this one to hold even a sliver of interest? Sorry, but Penny Arcade put it best. While watching friends play, I was drifting into a slumber myself.

MAYBE I can see the game being engaging if you have plenty of time to kill...alone, but it's not one of those games which can be played with an audience.

I'm not telling anyone to not like the game, but it was DEFINITELY not worth the hype I heard for it. I'd recommend it only to HARDCORE RPG fans. Anyone on the fence, rental.

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Originally posted by: Shecky lol... is that a built in utility for the 360?

Yeah, hold down A as the console boots to defrag.  

[zakkiel]

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Thank you for accusing me of lying.

No. I said you made up the times. MEaning that you didn't take a stopwatch to them, and you're exaggerating for effect.

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Unless the enemies suddenly learn to grab my shield and tear it from my hand, or lead a strafing target,

You... you just didn't play the game at all, did you? One of the most impressive features of the AI is EXACTLY THE WAY IT LEADS A STRAFING TARGET.

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Apparently, you fall under the "some who might enjoy this aspect" heading.

Huh? I like the fact that the world has a realistic complement of objects. Otherwise, I'm indifferent. I just find it amusing that you resorted to this level of trivial complaint.

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NPCs which didn't give off a vibe of creepiness.

I haven't heard of anyoen else finding them creepy.

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What about disarms?

Journeyman weapon level

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Weapon parries?

You didn't notice those? Damn, man, did you actually play the game?

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Limb targeting (targeting in general would have helped, as often you just swing in the general direction of the enemy)?

Now you're just being ridiculous. Zelda never featured any kind of "limb targeting" except for bosses, and it hasn't bothered anyone. You can't complain about missing features if there aren't any console games with those features.

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They don't emote like sentient beings at all.

There are times when people say things that are simply wrong, and this is one of those times.

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Sorry, but Penny Arcade put it best.

Quite an ironic reference, given that in the following news post Tycho said, "I finally understand what everyone is talking about where Oblivion is concerned. It started taking my sh!t over each night when I'd come back from SakuraCon, and it was one hundred percent about theergonomics of the platform shift."

Clear ly, you started this game with the intention to hate it, and came up with a list of complaints that are either trivial (too many objects? Too easy to steal?) entirely personal taste (character models) or demonstrably false (target-leading). I'm sorry that you couldn't enjoy the game. Your loss.

[Bill Aurion]

I got the game merely for the aesthetic value and for mere exploration, but the combat is actually pretty fun to me...I also love being a thief! =D

The only big downers are the framerate and loading, because it's 360...

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel No. I said you made up the times. MEaning that you didn't take a stopwatch to them, and you're exaggerating for effect.

So "making up times" isn't lying?

I'm quite serious about the times. Like I said, maybe my friend has a 360 with a buggy HD, but these were the issues we were experiencing.

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You... you just didn't play the game at all, did you? One of the most impressive features of the AI is EXACTLY THE WAY IT LEADS A STRAFING TARGET.

I didn't notice it with the earlier monsters, but I don't consider it IMPRESSIVE, I consider it a staple. Banjo-Kazooie had leading AI, FFS. What about the other ideas I mentioned which would have made the monsters more fun? Any of those in the game?

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Huh? I like the fact that the world has a realistic complement of objects. Otherwise, I'm indifferent. I just find it amusing that you resorted to this level of trivial complaint.

That's a micromanaging issue. Some people like to pick through piles of crap. I personally don't find it appealing.

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I haven't heard of anyoen else finding them creepy.

Congratulations on lower standards? All 6 of us in the room found them eerily devoid of emotion.

Find me someone who does NOT nod and make head gestures in their speech and I'll show you a paraplegic. Even StarFox for the N64 had the pilot models giving head gestures in their ships (which you could see during the ending).

In a game which tries to be as real as possible, they badly needed to spend more effort on the NPC interaction.

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Journeyman weapon level

Fair enough. Didn't get that far.

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You didn't notice those? Damn, man, did you actually play the game?

Button mashed, stuff dies. Heal.

To be fair, we didn't jack the difficulty up. Unless the enemies and game together become far more engaging, then I'm sorry but I couldn't fathom making it to the end.

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Now you're just being ridiculous. Zelda never featured any kind of "limb targeting" except for bosses, and it hasn't bothered anyone. You can't complain about missing features if there aren't any console games with those features.

Eternal Darkness featured limb targeting.

Furthermore, why is it so far fetched? In a game which is supposed to be about tactical combat, disabling the limb holding a weapon is sound logic, logic which has been used in melee combat for centuries. Besides, if they fleshed the concept out enough to disarm, why is targeting a limb unheard of?

And like I said, some sort of targeting system would have been nice for sword combat. Forget about the utterly incompetent friendly AI which would run right in front of you while you were hacking away at an opponent. It would have been nice to be able to pick targets rather then facing their general direction, especially in 3rd person mode.

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There are times when people say things that are simply wrong, and this is one of those times.

Alright, you go try to hold a conversation with someone you know but who doesn't play Oblivion. The WHOLE time, hold your neck absolutely still, no nodding or head movements, look the person in the eye on occasion but let your eyes drift around aimlessly most of the time.

See how long it takes before they ask if something is WRONG with you.

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Quite an ironic reference, given that in the following news post Tycho said, "I finally understand what everyone is talking about where Oblivion is concerned. It started taking my sh!t over each night when I'd come back from SakuraCon, and it was one hundred percent about theergonomics of the platform shift."

Who's quoting Tycho? I'm with Gabe on this one. Tycho is the one who bet that "BMX XXX" would succeed.

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Clear ly, you started this game with the intention to hate it

I sat down with an open mind, but it was quickly closed, no wait, those were my eyelids.

Personally, I think YOU'RE biased in that you're being far too forgiving of some of the more blatant atrocities in the design. The fact that you didn't even notice that the NPCs would have passed for robots says this more than anything.

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Too easy to steal?

A potentially punishable action is typically tied to a modifier. It's not gamestopping, no, but it would have made for more intuitive design.

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entirely personal taste (character models)

Disliking the fact that every character is wearing an invisible neck brace is not personal taste. Like I said, act like one of these characters for a day and see if you don't get treated differently at least once for being "specially abled".

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or demonstrably false (target-leading).

I didn't notice it, my bad, but it's not like target leading is going to make the combat miraculously fun and engaging.

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I'm sorry that you couldn't enjoy the game. Your loss.

NOW who's making things up, hmm?

I'm willing to admit that this might just NOT be my type of game, but it was also not the type of game for 5 of my 6 friends who were there for it, either.

I think it would have benefitted from livelier NPCs, a targeting system for melee weapons and...well, I don't know what would have kept it from being less boring.  

[Kairon]

Oblivion, and the Elder Scrolls series, seem to me...

to be a Fantasy RPG version of GTA...

*ducks*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Mario]

Except without the fun!

*jumps*

[Kairon]

I dearly want to loev both game series, but I have the same complaint:

"This is an awesome world you've built for me, but you don't give me enough tools to explore it seamlessly."

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ymeegod]

"What about disarms? Weapon parries? Limb targeting (targeting in general would have helped, as often you just swing in the general direction of the enemy)? Weak points? Armor removal? Crippling blows? Head attacks to disorient? "

Yeah, I was on the floor laughing my ass off at this comment since in a few months you're be giving Zelda 10 out of 10 too :0.

And your example--ED--has it's flaws as well since you couldn't even target freaking legs and it really didn't matter if you attacked it's arms since the weak point was always it's neck.   By the time you lopped off an arm you could have already finished off the enemy with one or two swings to the neck.

[Sir_Stabbalot]

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I wanted NPCs who moved their necks, shoulders and parts of their face beyond eyes and mouth, or NPCs which didn't give off a vibe of creepiness.

I swear I saw an NPC move their necks a couple of times. I still think this ins't such a big deal.

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You positive those weren't mildly restructured models? They looked pretty damn similar not to be...

Yes, I'm positive.

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Being an RPG is no excuse for having crap for a combat system. Sneak and "power" are pretty goddamn staple attacks. What about disarms? Weapon parries? Limb targeting (targeting in general would have helped, as often you just swing in the general direction of the enemy)? Weak points? Armor removal? Crippling blows? Head attacks to disorient? I didn't play that far in, but were any of these in the game?

Disarms? Get to Journeyman level in your weapon skill and you'll get a disarm power-attack. Parries would have been ridiculously hard to implement, and you can quite easily block an enemies attack and get a good hit in while he's recoiling. Everything else I haven't heard of anything using since Eternal Darkness.

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I never said the voice acting sucked (though it sounds like the same 3-6 voice actors just trying to sound like different people), the facial expressions suck. They don't emote like sentient beings at all. If they had added head shakes, nods, head tilting, shoulder shrugging, SOMETHING, I'd be less harsh on it, but everyone acts like they're wearing an invisible neck brace.

I still say the move a bit, but it's not THAT massive of a deal...

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So you'll need to have played the other three games for this one to hold even a sliver of interest? Sorry, but Penny Arcade put it best. While watching friends play, I was drifting into a slumber myself.

MAYBE I can see the game being engaging if you have plenty of time to kill...alone, but it's not one of those games which can be played with an audience.

I'm not telling anyone to not like the game, but it was DEFINITELY not worth the hype I heard for it. I'd recommend it only to HARDCORE RPG fans. Anyone on the fence, rental.

You clearly aren't the type for this game. No, you don't have to play the first three to understand the story, you just need to listen to the intro! It's not THAT long. Heck, I think Wind Waker's was longer.

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Originally posted by: Shecky lol... is that a built in utility for the 360?

Yeah, hold down A as the console boots to defrag.

...Wow. The 360 hard drive actually needs defrags?

[KnowsNothing]

Seriously, who cares if Smash doesn't like the game.  You're not going to make him like it by raping every one of his posts.

And for serious Smash, stop trying to get people to not buy the game.  There's no bloody point.  They might like it, not everyone has to agree with you, and you shouldn't go around convincing people interested in it to not buy it.  I guess you have the right to explain why you didn't like it, but at least do that in the reader review section where it's easier to ignore.

[NWR_pap64]

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Seriously, who cares if Smash doesn't like the game.  You're not going to make him like it by raping every one of his posts.

And for serious Smash, stop trying to get people to not buy the game.  There's no bloody point.  They might like it, not everyone has to agree with you, and you shouldn't go around convincing people interested in it to not buy it.  I guess you have the right to explain why you didn't like it, but at least do that in the reader review section where it's easier to ignore.

Somebody isn't reading... He NEVER said people shouldn't buy the game. He said:

"I'm not telling anyone to not like the game, but it was DEFINITELY not worth the hype I heard for it. I'd recommend it only to HARDCORE RPG fans. Anyone on the fence, rental."

He is not trying to convince people to not try the game out. He is just pointing the flaws he found in the game that tarnished his experience. It's HIS opinion. At least HE GAVE THE GAME A TRY! Most people jump into conclusions without giving something a proper try.

And what's this?

"I guess you have the right to explain why you didn't like it, but at least do that in the reader review section where it's easier to ignore."

So you're saying that since his opinion on the game goes against the other opinions offered on Oblivion it should be sent to a place where people will not notice it? What kind of BS is that?

People, just because a gazillion magazines gave Oblivion great reviews it doesn't mean that everyone will like it or that what they say is the truth. If you loved the game, fine. But there's no need to dissect S_B down because he didn't like it. He gave the game a try and politely posted his flaws with the game. That's certainly more that some people do down at Gamefaqs.

And S_B is not alone on his sentiment. A great majority of my friends didn't like the game either.

I agree that there's no need to put S_B down just because he didn't like the game, but it's really unfair to make him look like a bad guy because he had the BALLS to say what he really thought of the game, unlike some people who are afraid of going against what other people say. It's called "rational thinking", people. S_B has the right to post his opinion on whatever game in existence, and he shouldn't be censored because of it.

This is who S_B is, people. DEAL WITH IT.

[Kairon]

Generally, I'd say that Oblivion IS overhyped. This is basically a very American RPG experience, a very unique genre with specific strengths and very obvious weaknesses. It's really a niche product, the pople who'd buy Oblivion are the people who'd buy Ultima IX... and who bought Ultima IX?

It's sorta surreal that we don't think of it that way though.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[zakkiel]

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Congratulations on lower standards? All 6 of us in the room found them eerily devoid of emotion.

Congratulations. I didn't really believe there were people subject to the uncanny Valley before. Weird.

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Who's quoting Tycho?

You are. Tycho writes the dialogue.

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What about the other ideas I mentioned which would have made the monsters more fun? Any of those in the game?

Yes. Disarms, disorienting attacks, etc.

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Alright, you go try to hold a conversation with someone you know but who doesn't play Oblivion. The WHOLE time, hold your neck absolutely still, no nodding or head movements, look the person in the eye on occasion but let your eyes drift around aimlessly most of the time.

I let this slide a bunch because I couldn't be sure, but I sat down and played and their eyes wander once in a blue moon and their necks and heads move, necks rarely, and heads usually subtly, exactly as it should be. And clearly you just don't pay attention in regular conversations because people break eye contact all the time, especially in a subordinate position. If someone actually had a conversation with you with their head bobbing around while staring fixedly into your eyes, that would freak you out.

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I didn't notice it, my bad, but it's not like target leading is going to make the combat miraculously fun and engaging.

No. In fact, none of the things you lsited make combat miraculously fun and engaging, which is clear from the fact that several of your suggestions were in the game and you still complained about their absence.

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Limb targeting (targeting in general would have helped, as often you just swing in the general direction of the enemy)? Weak points? Armor removal? Crippling blows? Head attacks to disorient?

Part of the point of combat is that there is no targeting, which eliminates three of those. (Limb targeting, btw, was never a feature of European combat; you hit your opponent however you could, which is pretty much never in the arm.)There is an overhand attack that can paralyze people, and any power attack has a good chance at staggering them.  Armor removal would be incredibly cheesy; you do not cut someone's armor off in combat. The only reason you're suggesting this is that you saw it in WW, where it was played for comedy. Similarly, you cull limb targeting from from a completely different game and expect them to put that in as well. You actually count it has an unforgiveable flaw that combat does not have a set of features existing in no other single game.

In sum: You're like someone who plays SSMB for two hours against level 2 CPUs, then complains that there are only two moves and all you have to do is button mash anyway, and that they don't include a list of yourt favorite moves from Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur (some of which are actually in the game, but you never took the trouble to find out how the combo system works).

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I don't know what would have kept it from being less boring.

How about the best quests I've ever seen in a game, period? Not a single one of the optional quests is boring or mundane. How about a stealth system that matches up to games revolving around stealth? How about the most flexible avatar creation in the history of video games? Etc, etc.

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Personally, I think YOU'RE biased in that you're being far too forgiving of some of the more blatant atrocities in the design.

The onyl potentially serious flaw you list is combat, which you have several times now proved you know nothing about.  

[animecyberrat]

>>It's really a niche product, the pople who'd buy Oblivion are the people who'd buy Ultima IX... and who bought Ultima IX?<<



or D&D fans who like to play a fanatasy RPG that actualy lets you play like D & D instead of FF type games thata re just interactive movies. I prefered Balders gate over FF Cc or Tales of symphonia anyday (liked Tales a lot but not as much) I also really like Marrowwind a lot so am expecting I will like Oblivion a lot too. Thanks Smash for shareing your thoughts though it is nice to hear if a game does have reall issue.


I still cant decide if I shoudl upgrade my PC to play this game or get we 360 and call it good.

[Kairon]

It's worth noting that Penny Arcade would recommend the PC version over the XBox version. They have a lot of small things they don't like on the X360 that's fixed on the PC version.

ALSO: the costs for the downloadable content so far are generally cheaper on the PC, the XBox 360 content tends to cost a little more.

Enjoy spending $2.50 ($1.99 if you're on the PC) to outfit your horse in pretty clothes.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel Congratulations. I didn't really believe there were people subject to the uncanny Valley before. Weird.

Being subject to the uncanny valley would imply that the NPCs were so incredibly lifelike that they scared us. It was exactly the opposite. Cold, sterile robots.

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You are. Tycho writes the dialogue.

The link goes straight to the comic for a reason. Tycho is the more hardcore RPG nut, the type who would enjoy this game. Gabe is not, and it's his perspective which I'm relating to here. Furthermore, I think the comic aptly summarizes the game.

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I let this slide a bunch because I couldn't be sure, but I sat down and played and their eyes wander once in a blue moon and their necks and heads move, necks rarely, and heads usually subtly, exactly as it should be. And clearly you just don't pay attention in regular conversations because people break eye contact all the time, especially in a subordinate position. If someone actually had a conversation with you with their head bobbing around while staring fixedly into your eyes, that would freak you out.

I've had it happen where someone's eyes WILL wander while I'm talking to them and I immediately jump into "act like you don't notice it because that would be rude" mode. These are people with actual disorders where they have a hard time maintaining ocular focus. The NPCs keep their head pointed straight at you and then their eyes wander around the room, and I don't mean dart, I mean lazily drift about.

It's nitpicking, yeah, but it's clear that this game tried very hard to be realistic and yet fails miserably with the NPCs, one of the most important aspects of any game striving for realism.

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No. In fact, none of the things you lsited make combat miraculously fun and engaging, which is clear from the fact that several of your suggestions were in the game and you still complained about their absence.

So, wait, some of what I suggested was in the game but it DOESN'T make the combat fun and engaging? We didn't play that far before the game became too boring to tolerate, but if you say that the combat gained some of the suggestions I had and it wasn't saved by it, I'll take your word for it.

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Part of the point of combat is that there is no targeting, which eliminates three of those.

Huh? It wouldn't be asking too much to at LEAST select a specific enemy so your melee attacks wouldn't hit the blasted friendlies when they walk right in front of you. Limb targeting or just TARGETING in general would have been welcome. As the current setup goes, you aim yourself in the general direction of the enemy and swing.

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Armor removal would be incredibly cheesy; you do not cut someone's armor off in combat. The only reason you're suggesting this is that you saw it in WW, where it was played for comedy.

Medieval warriors were knocking off helmets and shields long before WW was, and I honestly didn't even REMEMBER that part of WW until you mentioned it.

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Similarly, you cull limb targeting from from a completely different game and expect them to put that in as well. You actually count it has an unforgiveable flaw that combat does not have a set of features existing in no other single game.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I listed it on my list of suggestions for possibly making the combat more engaging. You pulled the "unforgivable flaw" bit straight out of your own arse.

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In sum: You're like someone who plays SSMB for two hours against level 2 CPUs, then complains that there are only two moves and all you have to do is button mash anyway, and that they don't include a list of yourt favorite moves from Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur (some of which are actually in the game, but you never took the trouble to find out how the combo system works).

Sorry, but no. In SSBM, I can immediately set the difficulty to 9 on the bots and fight them: the ability to do this is available immediately.

In Oblivion, how many hours would I have had to play through before the combat becomes interesting (if it ever does at all)?

You've already confirmed for me that the game used a number of the suggestions I gave but that it still didn't save it.

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How about the best quests I've ever seen in a game, period? Not a single one of the optional quests is boring or mundane.

Subjective, subjective, subjective. You've made it quite clear that this game is the second coming of Christ to you so you'll pardon me if your opinion on this subject means nil.

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How about a stealth system that matches up to games revolving around stealth?

It's a good thing this board had a healthy deficit of MGS, Splinter Cell and Tenchu fans or they'd tear out your liver and eat it for a comment like that.

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How about the most flexible avatar creation in the history of video games? Etc, etc.

You can adjust the hell out of a face you almost never see during the game. Woot!

Even PSO had better character creation, because you weren't restricted to the base models like you are in Oblivion and you could actually change your character's height and build (maybe I wanted my cat to be a fat cat...). You can adjust the face all you want, but every like character in the game shares the same body model. World of Warcraft is also guilty of this, but they did it so there would be minimal loading when 50+ players were duking it out in a single area. Why Oblivion in an offline game didn't allow you to change this is beyond me.

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The onyl potentially serious flaw you list is combat, which you have several times now proved you know nothing about.

No, the serious flaw is BOREDOM. The smaller flaws culminate into a dislike of the game because I can only be asked to forgive so much before I say the hell with it.

Combat was boring and repetitive. NPCs are stiff and lifeless. The game induces comas... Alone, these aren't gamestoppers, but when they add up, it reaches a point where the game isn't enjoyable.

I didn't find the game fun. Others might, but like I said, I think you're far more tolerant when it comes to micro management RPGs.

So like I said originally: hardcore RPG fans will very likely enjoy this game. Anyone who doesn't believe they fit that bill should rent it (rent it and a 360 if you have to) before buying it on the PC because you cannot return PC games to most retailers.

That's MY warning to potential buyers: RENT FIRST unless you love micro management RPGs to the extent that zakkiel here does.

[Famicom]

I'm not really into RPG's from the east or west, but I found myself enjoying this game quite a bit. Never even seen Morrowind or the previous two Elder Scrolls game, so I didn't exactly have super high expectations or blind faith. The Gamespot review caught my fancy, and I needed something to test out my new PC parts. Haven't regretted my purchase one bit.