Topic: E3 awards

[Mario]

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Having to use the stylus to aim your shots in Metroid Prime Hunters, no thanks no thanks

Huh? What the hell is the point of Metroid Prime on DS if all it adds is a map on the top screen? I'll take using the stylus over a clunky d-pad anyday.

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And yay, ANOTHER Grand Theft Auto and Gran Turismo game? Considering that the only thing you can really add to those games is more violence and newer car models respectively, there really isn't much difference.
So Nintendo wins.

More like ANOTHER Zelda and Metroid and Mario and Pokemon and Donkey Kong game? What could possibly be added to those games as well? Hmmmm

[KDR_11k]

Mario: GT4 is a realistic game. You can't throw as many features at a realistic game as at a fantasy game. I mean, people wouldn't talk kindly to Madden adding more creative levels or GT4 adding miniguns, would they?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Jungle Beat is way cool.

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Mario

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Having to use the stylus to aim your shots in Metroid Prime Hunters, no thanks no thanks

Huh? What the hell is the point of Metroid Prime on DS if all it adds is a map on the top screen? I'll take using the stylus over a clunky d-pad anyday.

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Who said if a game doesn't use the stylus for shooting all it can have without that is just a map on the top screen?
They can come up with other innovations.  That's also why in the same post I said my disappointment of the show before that runner up one was that the DS did not have analog control.

Being a big fan of GT I know everything there is to know about GT4, and I urge people to read about the new innovations they're adding to the game before you downplay it.  They even have a picture making mode with tons of features to it, it's a quirky new feature never before incorporated in a game the way it is.  Another huge thing is the G force meter.  You can have as many features in a realistic game as a fantasy game, it just depends on how you go about 'defining' features.  

[mouse_clicker]

I agree that even games like GTA and GT4 can have innovations not apparent at the moment, but don't throw around the world "revolutionary" so lightly, joe- GT4 is NOT revolutionary. Yes, it has some very cool innovations that add a new touch to racing games, but it's not a revolution, it doesn't completely change the way you play the game- you still start at the beginning of the track and try to reach the end of the track before everyone else.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I like crashing cars, big jumps, and very active track environments.

[joeamis]

I dont say revolutionary in terms of industry revolution, just in terms of that specific game alone in it's context.  The changes made to GTA: San Andreas are going to revolutionize that series, singularly.  The G-Force meter for GT4 is going to revolutionize how you play GT games, it's going to drastically change how you play the game unless if people don't utilize it.  Yes you are still starting at a point and trying to reach another before everyone else, but the way you're going to get there is going to be different.

[Shift Key]

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Being a big fan of GT I know everything there is to know about GT4, and I urge people to read about the new innovations they're adding to the game before you downplay it.

Ahahaha, I've been downplaying it since #1. So there

After reading IGN's hands-on of GT4, I haven't changed my mind:

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Still, no damage, sorry. One thing you won't be able to do is flip the car. Kazunori insists ... if the cars are to flip, they are to do it with real physics. The PS2 is being pushed to the limit and there's no room to include additional information to get the cars to react they way they should ...

You can throw as many cars or features as you want at it, but it boils down to the fact its just a 'realistic' racer, because of the limits of the PS2 to handle crashes (admittedly it shouldn't happen if you are a good racer, but that is my favourite part of racing against a human opponent - bumps and crashes).

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The changes made to GTA: San Andreas are going to revolutionize that series, singularly.

A fat-o-meter and larger maps? That's hardly revolutionary. Its different and an additional feature - that's all.

[akdaman1]

Dont downplay GTA San Andreas yet.

Nothing is even known about it yet.

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Shifty

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Ahahaha, I've been downplaying it since #1. So there

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The changes made to GTA: San Andreas are going to revolutionize that series, singularly.

A fat-o-meter and larger maps? That's hardly revolutionary. Its different and an additional feature - that's all.

What's wrong with realistic racers?  They are alot harder to make than arcade racers.  They don't include crash damage because the car companies won't let them, sure other companies have but they've had like 10% of the cars that GT4 has so they have less companies to negotiate with.

If you think a fat-o-meter and larger maps are the innovations I was talking about you're in for a surprise because I don't see those as big innovations.  The IGN article barely touched the surface of the Game Informer feature.  

[Shift Key]

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They don't include crash damage because the car companies won't let them, sure other companies have but they've had like 10% of the cars that GT4 has so they have less companies to negotiate with.

Then its not really a realistic racer then am i rite? Simpsons Hit and Run had the Ferrini, that must make it a semi-realistic racer.

Of course GT has had more licensed cars - Sony pays to use models of these cars on the condition that the car stays in mint condition while on the track. What a bunch of paranoid freaks! If some idiot wants to go and drive like a maniac on the road and then blame it on a racing game, he deserves to be thrown in jail. If I hit the wall in a race, I want to know I did wrong by the car being totalled. Because ITS A GAME PEOPLE! I want to see my car after the win, sporting battle scars - scratches down the side, dodgy suspension, or heaven forbid that there are some dents in the million-dollar Ferrari. That's the most annoying thing I've come across with GT4, and the fact that they're emphasizing all the awesome graphics without considering any real-world effects on the cars gets a boo-urns in my book.

And that's why Burnout is still my preferred racer - it may not be more realistic, but its an absolute blast to nudge your mate into a semi-trailer at the intersection, and then see the resulting pileup of cars as you zoom past. And don't get me started about Crash Mode - BEST. MULTI. RACING MODE. EVER.

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Dont downplay GTA San Andreas yet.

OMG WHAT A SMALL RESPONSE. CAN I BEAT IT? HERE GOES...


no

[joeamis]

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Originally posted by: Shifty

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Of course GT has had more licensed cars - Sony pays to use models of these cars on the condition that the car stays in mint condition while on the track. What a bunch of paranoid freaks! If some idiot wants to go and drive like a maniac on the road and then blame it on a racing game, he deserves to be thrown in jail.

That's not the reason why they don't include damage, it's because the car companies won't let them because they don't want their cars to be shown damaged in any way.  Of course I don't agree with that either I think it's hogwash.  It's like not showing blood when a person gets injured in a fighting game etc.  Burnout's crash mode is alot of fun, I can't wait for Burnout 3 as well it's gonna rock.  As for the 2nd comment I agree with what akdaman said, if you get a chance read the feature in Game Informer, GTA 5 is gonna make Vice City look like s*** in all aspects.

[mouse_clicker]

It's GTA 4 that's the one with all the changes- San Andreas is using the same engine as Vice City and GTA 3, it can't be THAT different.

[Shift Key]

But surely GTA5 will wipe the floor with its predecessors, mouse. It has a higher number AND its not even in development!

[KDR_11k]

You know what, you can have damage in realistic racers if you just change the vehicle names and don't have to deal with licensing anymore.

[akdaman1]

Gran Turismo 4 really aint needed to much. It doesnt look like it will change when compared to its predecessor. I really do hate the GTA series but I wont say anything on San Andreas just yet.

I dont blame SCEA for not having a real time damage engine thing. Its not thier fault. The companies dont want to see thier cars trashed.

[Shift Key]

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I dont blame SCEA for not having a real time damage engine thing.

One of the heads of the game design says the PS2 is pushed to its limit without having any damage physics in GT4. I believe that, but I don't think its the only reason why its missing.

[mouse_clicker]

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One of the heads of the game design says the PS2 is pushed to its limit without having any damage physics in GT4. I believe that, but I don't think its the only reason why its missing.

I've also read that the hubcaps in Gran Turismo 3 are 2D when they don't have to be 3D.

[Shift Key]

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I've also read that the hubcaps in Gran Turismo 3 are 2D when they don't have to be 3D.

Makes sense, but they're just hubcaps. GT4 has fully modelled people on some tracks in addition to the detailed models they are showing, which makes me think they have their priorities wrong. That or the carmakers have carrots where the sun don't shine.

[Ian Sane]

"I dont blame SCEA for not having a real time damage engine thing. Its not thier fault. The companies dont want to see thier cars trashed."

That makes sense but it's the wrong approach to game design and is exactly the problem with most of Sony's first party efforts.  By sacrificing car damage for official car designs and names they're sacrificing gameplay for flash.  Nintendo and Sega would never have done that with their first party titles.  Gameplay is the most important thing and a good developer would never regard something as superficial as official car designs worth restricting gameplay for.

That's ultimately the problem with games targetted towards casual gamers period.  EA does the same type of stuff.  When making a new Bond game what are the new "features" they hype up?  They make a big deal about how they have famous actors providing voices and lending their likeness to the game and how they have a brand new Bond song for the opening sung by a famous singer.  Well that's all fine and good but have they made a better game than Goldeneye yet?  Nope because gameplay isn't their main focus.  Look at Enter the Matrix for a very blatant example.  The big deal with that game was that it had exclusive movie footage and was made under the supervision of the film's creators and it filled in the gaps in the story.  Oh yeah and it played like ass only they didn't advertise that.  Still sold well though thus giving the industry the message that we're all naive fools who will buy a sh!tty game because it's based on a popular license and has a lot of superficial flash.

Anyway that all ties in to Gran Turismo because Sony has shown developers that it's okay to take that approach to game design and have taught their fanbase to buy it which has a negative ripple effect throughout the industry.

[akdaman1]

What would you do in thier position then? Theres no way around it. You cant answer "hold GT4 off into next gen" because the same problem will still be there.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I hear "ass" doesn't play very well.

[joeamis]

When I say GTA 5 I mean San Andreas, even though they're not numbering the games now it is still the 5th official installment (minus that London game which was essentially an expansion pack).  Saying a game can't be that different from another because it uses the same game engine doesn't hold much to it.  Many sequels use the same game engine and are vastly different.  Entirely separate franchise are created using the same engines as others and both have succeeded.  They have done a major overhaul to the engine, please read the Game Informer 10 page feature on GTA:SA if you're going to state viewpoints about the game since really nothing was none before that except 3 screenshots.  And the other recent articles about it online barely touch the surface.  And I can assure you I am not a GTA fanboy, I just happen to read every single thing in every mag I get.

As for GT4, knowing alot about the creator Kazunori Yamauchi, he lives and breathes cars and he would never dream of taking away the car licenses to include damage (something that doesn't happen often in Gran Touring racing).  His testament to authenticity regarding car models and their history will be evident in what he always wanted to include in Gran Turismo games, the new 'History Feature' in GT4.  He's even gone so far as to include real cars as far back as 1886.  He has said numerous times that car damage is something they're looking into.  Obviously he wants to include it, is negotiating with the companies to, and has said he really hopes they will be able to include it in GT5.

Furthermore it is not a Sony/Sega/Nintendo thing at all.  Polyphony Digital is completely separate from Sony and is really a 2nd party.  Sega actually has sacrificed car damage for official vehicle designs on numerous occasions (their arcade games).  Gran Turismo is not targetted towards casual gamers, the game is very complex, the reason so many casual gamers buy it is because it's a AAA title.  If you compare the sales of GT1 to GT3 this reflects that.  The majority of all the other racing games on the market are more targetted to casual gamers than GT is except the diehard simulations.  Just because GT doesn't appeal to you Ian it doesn't mean its s****y like Enter The Matrix.  GT4 is changed from it's predessor in a helluva lot of ways, the addition of online play alone is worth the new game.  There is so much new stuff it's mind boggling how they actually fit it onto 1 dvd.

[Bloodworth]

Hey this is cool and all, but maybe you should make a new topic.

[Shift Key]

ZING