Topic: Zelda for NDS confirmed! Awesome...

[Ocarina Blue]

Yes, I was referring to something in Aonuma's speech in GDC. My quote was inaccurate, sorry. It went something like: "With the next game [Majora's Mask], we had a groovin' graphical style we were exploring, but found the N64 couldn't handle the jandal, so we made WW and were happy with it." What Miyamoto has said in previous interviews is the notion of realistic characters being unable to move fluidly through their surroundings without an very hight graphical power - power that exceeds what the GC can handle. My bad.

What's this about wishful thinking? I have no predudices towards either of the graphical styles.

[mouse_clicker]

I'm just saying that's what it sounds like- it implies that Miyamoto never wanted Zelda to go the direction OoT and MM took it, and only made those games because the N64 couldn't handle Wind Waker's graphical style, which I think is total crap. I think Miyamoto had every intention of making OoT in the style it was, and possibly used the style again because his vision for the next Zelda game wasn't possible yet. I know Miyamoto has said ultrarealistic characters are very difficult to make look good without incredible power (although I thought the SW2K demo was incredible enough), but I don't think that means Miyamoto has completely forsaken a realistic style.

[odifiend]

Quote
I won't buy games I don't like, and that's enough of a message.

That's the message I was talking about.  Ian said he played LM.  I played LM.  We both didn't like it.  We both didn't buy it.  The "message" I'm talking about is the message of collective sales hits when compared to past games.  I want a Nintendo exec. to look at the numbers and say there are GCNs out there but consumers have stopped buying Pokemon 56 Tiedie edition and 'Mario washes the dishes'.  Recently it seems to me that Nintendo slaps a franchise on a mediocre game and present it to us.  I see quality slipping and am becoming displeased.  I hope this Zelda comes through.

[Gamebasher]

Mouse_clicker - why are you so darn rude with IanSane? He is right about what he says about sending a message to the publisher by not buying something which we think is crap! If everybody just let the developer and the publisher get away with whatever their whim was, we would be SLAVES of them and THEY would set the agenda and not us! It was the customer and not the vendor who had the final say, the last time I checked!

And I do agree with IanSane, that there should have been a Mario game at launch, and not a Luigi game. Everywhere I went on the internet after the launch of the gamecube, people complained about the lack of a Mario game at launch. The fact is that people in a majority likes Mario MORE than Luigi. Which also shows in the number of Mario games ever sold!!!!

Sorry, just thought you´re wrong on this one.

As for the whole OOT vs. WW graphics discussion, it was Eiji Aunouma who got the idea for toonshading, not Miyamoto! Aunouma proposed the idea to Miyamoto, who then went with it. This happened while they were creating Majoras Mask! Where did I read it? I think it was over at Computerandvideogames.com, but I am not exactly clear about it. One reads so much and it is difficult to remember at times where something was exactly. But here is a really cool link to a fantastic website caled Zeldalegends.net, where there is a specific interview with Miyamoto and Aonouma on Zelda OOT vs. Windwaker. It is a quite long interview, so read carefully and you will understand a lot (for instance they say that they don´t make such long games anymore, because the average gamer - read: MAINSTREAM gamer - don´t have time to play for as long as the hardcore gamer does and that will eventually show in the number of games sold as not everyone out there (far from it) is a hardcore gamer but a mainstream gamer!) Here is the link:

http://www.zeldalegends.net/text/interviews/transcript.php?filename=2002-12-04-ign-miya-aonu-twwsummit-2

I have not seen this many Zelda interviews in a long time...



 

[mouse_clicker]

I'm not being rude, I'm pointing out why I think it's stupid to not buy a game for the sole reason of "sending a message" that it was the wrong title to release at launch. If he honestly didn't like the game, okay then, but I got the distinct impression that the main reason he didn't even consider Luigi's Mansion was because it wasn't a classic Mario title.

In addition, what's the problem with me having my opinion on Ian's opinion, just as you're having your opinion on my opinion right now? You don't post your thoughts in a forum without expecting someone else to critique them, so it kind of surprises me that I get so much flack for doing just that.

[Gamebasher]

Nothing wrong with your opinion, you´re just wrong in my view.

Anybody can be wrong, so you get flack if you are. Just as I get it, if somebody thinks I am!!

 

[DrZoidberg]

so Spong says Zelda will be on the DS ey?

[Bill Aurion]

Actually, Aonuma did...Sort of...

"With this new expressive quality [of 2.5d gameplay of The Four Swords Adventure], and with the upcoming release unique Nintendo DS system, I think we'll see more changes coming to the franchise, the likes of which we can talk more about at this year's E3, when we'll also talk about development with the Wind Waker 2."

[DrZoidberg]

aslong as it has more sources than spong i'm happy.

[Edisim]

you nay-sayers can pull my lever!

nah, i'm just kidding.. nintendo's probably got more up their sleeves than lever pulling. we all know how good they are at keeping secrets.  

[Ocarina_Jedi]

Ugh, I don't believe this.  I'm the guy who has cried out for a new GBA Zelda and now here it comes on the DS.  You know, I hadn't planned on buying the DS.  It looks like I might have to now, cuz there's no way I'm letting a new Zelda slip by me.

[ProtonX]

Will the new DS be able to keep with the Zelda tradion of games?  Like the second Zelda for the Nes was horrible compared to the first.  Does anyone have an idea of the Graphics?

[KDR_11k]

Noone has ANY idea of the DS. The specs suggest N64-level graphics, which seems in line with the PSP, but nothing is really known. Wait until E3.

[GaimeGuy]

Proton,    that's your opinion.   Some people think Zelda 2: Adventure of Link was better than The Legend of Zelda.     There's really no one who can answer your questions but yourself.

By the way, I love how  your first question about the content of the game is its graphics.  -_-

[ProtonX]

Lol, i agree it is my opinion, but even so i was talking about graphics not the gameplay.  All Zelda games have been awsome but some not as good as others.

Also sorry for any offense taken i did not intend to make fun of Zelda 2  

[Gamebasher]

Mouse_clicker, you´re right about what you say above on how Miyamoto-sans intention to make OOT the way it was and not the other way which it is now. He even said recently, that he thought a lot of people would like to see a realistic Link the way he is shown in SC2!!

I think that we will eventually end up getting our hands on a realistic Zelda one day. Afterall, Nintendo will make it realistic when Link grows up and becomes an Adult Link, which Nintendo has said should not be depicted using the new style of graphics. The cell-shaded type of graphics are definitely not good for showing an adult Link as they are too kiddy to do the job. That´s my opinion.

[Bill Aurion]

And I null the opinions of those who call toon-shading kiddy...Honestly, those who refer to an "adult Link" obviously never played a Zelda game before OoT...Link has ALWAYS been a kid...ALWAYS...The oldest he has ever gotten is in his teens, and he will never grow older than that...

As for a more realistic style, I personally don't care, because I know Ninty will make Zelda games fun just like they always have...

Bah, stupid Zelda newbs...

[Gamebasher]

Always been a kid, huh?

I didn´t recall him being a kid in OOT all the time! Keywords : grew up!

[Kulock]

I know he was "officially" young in the earlier games, but to be honest, he never looked that young in the character artwork in the manuals and such. Yes, his sprites were small, but everyone's sprites were small because the way the game was designed. That didn't mean he was a child. Otherwise, the wise man with a beard was actually just a kid with a facial hair problem. It's like how Small Mario in SMB didn't mean "child Mario," that was just how the game was designed and worked.

And then, of course, there is the much-malaigned Zelda 2: Adventures of Link... there were kids visible in that one, and Link certainly wasn't their height...

So I never really bought into all of the "Link was obvious a child from the get-go" talk, I always saw him as a sort of wide-eyed, quiet teen adventurer. Not _quite_ as serious as how he turned out in the Spaceworld demo and Super Smash Bros. Melee, but close enough. They're supposed to be Links from different generations, anyway, so I don't quite mind having to spend a game with one that's still young, but people arguing _every_ Link in every game was that age...

[Bill Aurion]

You don't become an adult in our standards until you turn 18...What age is Link in OoT?  17...A kid doesn't doesn't need to mean pre-teen...So by what I follow, Link has always been a kid...

[Ian Sane]

The first Zelda game I ever played was A Link to the Past and at the time I never assumed Link was a kid.  I figured he was a teenager between 13 and 15.  He was young but not a child.  His small sprite was just the style of the game.  For example in the opening cutscene to Link's Awakening he clearly is not a child.

In fact when I first saw Ocarina of Time I was caught off guard by the fact that Link was initially potrayed as a child.  I didn't have an N64 at the time and really wasn't paying too much attention to gaming news so the first time I saw footage beyond commercials was when I saw my friend's brother playing it.  I asked "why is he a kid in this game?" and the guy playing said that he initially thought it was weird too but that according to the manual he grows up later in the game.  Until the N64 games were released everyone I ever knew who had played a Zelda game assumed Link was a teenager.

I have and will always consider the Wind Waker style to be a departure from the original design.  That doesn't mean that game isn't really pretty and artistic but it's certainly different.  I have no problem with one or two games using that design but it certainly shouldn't be the standard.  I don't think a very realistic Zelda should be the standard either since that is also a departure.  It's worth a shot too but if there is to be a standard it should be somewhere in between like all the other Zeldas are.

[KDR_11k]

I assumed Link was a kid, because IIRC he got addressed as such. Might have been another game, though, and I'm mixing memories again, since many Nintendo games are geared towards children (I take that hint from the way they address the player in the manual, doesn't work in english since it doesn't differenciate between formal and informal you) and you often play a child.
I mean, it's normal for anime (and adventure or RPG) heroes to be 17 at most, even Final Fantasy follows that rule.

[the_zombie_luke]

Dang, the game that finally made me buy a GameBoy Color was Zelda DX. As much as I like other games, Zelda is the series that I enjoy and respect, since each game always offers something worthwhile, and usually is so much fun. I don't know how many times I have replayed Ocarina or Link to the Past, but it sure is a lot. With the DS, Nintendo can take Zelda in so many new directions. Sure, you could bump-map Link's clothing, or maybe make the Master Sword look better, but how long does that last? With the DS, I think Zelda's "Zeldaness" will only be better. I know I could have used two screens for Link to the Past.  

[KDR_11k]

Perhaps we're going to see something like Link & Zelda: Triforce Saga...