Author Topic: The Next Wave: A War of Chance  (Read 7849 times)

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Offline nemo_83

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« on: July 04, 2003, 11:11:38 AM »
I posted this on another site.  

The next genration approaches and we the gamers have begun our guessing games of what to expect in the coming years from the big three. Many including myself have been ranting and raving about the mistakes that have been made by the companies this generation, some of which parallel the previous generation. We all have our opinions and hopes for what the companies will do. Games, graphics, processing speed, console appearance, console names, advertising campaigns, online capabilities, hardrive space, game medium, and controllers are speculated upon each day. To see the future one must look to the past (and present) so to invision the triumphs and mistakes that are soon to be made.

The first question is when. When will the next generation come rushing in. I hear and read speculation all of the time about how Sony is going to be patient and wait untill 2006 this time. Using anticipation for the PS3 rather than the PS3 itself to off the competition. Nintendo is know for being the last out of the gate. In the past this has worked for them, but in recent history it has only hendered their success. GameCube is seen as a secondary console for GBA and PS2 owners. Its late arrival did not help it to catch up with the PS2. The general consensus is that Nintendo will launch early (possibly Christmas 2004 in Japan) so to not be left behind. Execs at Nintendo have even been quoted as saying they will not let the competion get ahead next time. MS on the other hand has been very quiet. At least to my knowledge there have been no hints about its new system or when it will be released.

Next gen the companies will need to show focus on correcting past mistakes. Sony will need an easier machine for developers to develop for (it is rummored that the PS3 will be the most difficult hardware ever to develop for). Sony should, although their fans usually do not complain, modify their version of the SNES pad. It is simply put; an obsolete design. Nintendo should change thier image. Not change it to the thirteen year old targeted demographic of the Xbox, but rather become recognized like Sony as a company for all ages. MS for example chooses to target only the ultra violence starved and sexually deprived youth of America. Nintendo gears their games in appearance to mostly kids (but kids hate the way Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc look) while the gameplay screams for the game to be played by an intelect. (I'm not suggesting a change in design at all in those mentioned games, I love the artistic freedom that Nitendo takes using super deformed characters) What I'm getting at is that Nintendo needs to make new games that are geared to the older market. I look at their new games on Cube and they follow the same trends of design as found in Mario and Animal Crossing. This is a mistake. What makes those art styles so great is thier individual nature. The new games should be NEW. People should look at them and say "that is something I havn't seen on Cube." Custom Robo is a good example of what could help give the system som visual variety. The opposite is true with MS who chooses nothing but realism when making games. (there are exeptions for both consoles such as Metroid and Perfect Dark)

Other mistakes made by Nintendo have been their controller, with its shortage of buttons, their purple console (should have been platinum, the only other color choice that could have appeared any more homoerotic to Americans than purple would have been rainbow), outrageous absence of a real Mario game (Sunshine was like a Luigi's Mansion take on Mario), and crappy advertising (see Sunshine comercial and lack of any comercial for Eternal Darkness for reference). MS has shown they are not so stubborn. After complaints about thier controller arrose they released a new one. Still the black and white buttons were even harder to reach in the new version. The biggest mistake by MS has been the lack of great games. Sony has many great exclusives like Gran Turismo, Grand Theft Auto, Ico, Mark of Kri, etc. Nintendo has had RS2, SSBM, Metroid, Eternal Darkness,
Zelda, etc. MS has had what? Halo, Munch's Odysey, and Jet Set Radio. Brute Force was hyped to be the next big hit for Xbox, but turned out to be a turd.

Graphics will only make things worse for the developer next generation. With more technology comes higher costs, bigger teams, longer dev time, more code to be written, and generally a bigger headache than ever for anyone involved. I say focus on advancing cel shading technologies. A game can look perfect as a cartoon, but can only look like a botched attempt at realism when it well realism is used. The point is to dicover a new form of freedom for the artist. The developer should not be restrained to making the game look real. Then it looks uninspired.

Rather than focusing on graphics so much they should focus on performance and speed of the technology. Consitency within those eye blistering graphics. They should also focus on bringing the gamer further into the game. This means breaking the controller in half into two wireless joysticks used for aiming so one can aim and look seperatly in games. Camera could even be controlled by head gear such as a virtual reality helmet. Spending money on closing the gap between man and the machine rather than enhancing the machine could equal more fun.

Also hardrives and broadband are going to be standard. I feel fiber optics is more logical, but who has that? Other technologies coming up include wireless downloading and uploading, smell simulators, and downloading games straight from the net for rent or owning. Demos could be emailed to users. Voice recognition could take over how we play games. We could be communicating with AI characters rather than just fighting them. The medium for game storage is yet another huge debate. Minidisk backwards compatiblity would be great for Nintendo if they decide to use full size DVDs. Then you could play not only Cube games on the new system, but also games from their new GameBoy if it uses minidisks too (no need for outrageous hardware requirements for play GB games on screen anymore). That does not mean the next GB will be Cube based. Sony will likely stick with full size DVD as well as MS. I believe an enclosed medium should arrise, but that could hurt console sales, by riding them of backwards compatibilty. I like the idea of DVDs enclosed and protected. Scratching would be difficult and pirating would take a hit in the arse.

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Offline Bartman3010

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2003, 11:39:54 AM »
Pure rubbish.
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Offline DRJ

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2003, 12:27:19 PM »
*yawn*
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Offline Gup

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2003, 12:46:55 PM »
Too long, I didn't bother to read.
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Offline Uglydot

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RE: The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2003, 12:52:46 PM »
Seen parts of this around the site, oh yay.  Yeah, companies need to fix small mistakes.  They won't always get it right...  There you go everyone, don't bother reading it.

Offline Oldskool

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2003, 02:00:20 PM »
Anyone else got a feeling of deja vu?
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Offline mojorizin

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2003, 02:34:14 PM »
Thank Goodness for the homoerotic color - I haven't had this much fun since the Atari joystick....

Offline Mario

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2003, 09:55:36 PM »
Someone revive this thread in two years.

Offline PIAC

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RE: The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2003, 01:52:37 AM »
2 controllers thingy... ehm.. no

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Offline Hemmorrhoid

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2003, 04:32:42 AM »
nobody can be expected to read such long posts
id rather eat or sleep
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Offline Grey Ninja

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2003, 11:21:23 AM »
What I'm getting sick of is the simple fact that there are like 10 threads a day popping up about the same blasted topic, and they are all posted in the GameCube Discussion forum.  

Post in Fast Forward so that we don't have to read this crap please.
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Offline Don'tHate742

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RE: The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2003, 11:58:55 AM »
Wow, i bet this guys is crying now. No need to break his spirits, he had something to say, so he said it........no crime there.


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Oh ya for future referece.........DON"T SAY SO MUCH.
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Offline Grey Ninja

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2003, 12:03:18 PM »
Alright, I'm sorry.  I was a little harsh.  But I am just growing tired of everyone and his dog having their own ideas on what Nintendo needs to do with their next console.  I think we should all just take a chill pill and let Nintendo's people do their jobs.
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Offline mjbd

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2003, 01:22:22 PM »
To me, GCN was like a buffer between N64 and the GCN2.  Gamecube has been able to break away from many of the stereotypes that nintendo had gotten from the N64 days.  Gamecube definately has more software than the N64 did, and the kiddy image has faded out alot as well.  Heres the one thing I think nintendo needs to realize, a system that appeals to teens, tends to appeal to everyone.  What I mean is, if an eight year old tends to look up to older kids, and want to be playing the same system they are playing.  Nintendo needs to further its efforts in createing the system that has the "for everyone" appeal.  I dont mind the design of Cube, but think that nintendo could opt for a bit more stylish design next time.  I personally feel that gamecube has alot of life left, so I am not gonna worry to much about GCN2.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2003, 02:51:38 PM »
Quote

Post in Fast Forward so that we don't have to read this crap please.
Agreed: please post in the correct forum.  I'm moving this topic.
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Offline ThePerm

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2003, 03:41:07 PM »
it sucks being an elitist....knowing everything..not being fickle...wait im 1337....awesome.

lets look at advertsiingl.  Eternal Darkness didnt get much advertising, but you know there wasa buzz on this game for several years. If you didnt know about it then well gaming is not something you REALLY do.
 
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Offline thepoga

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2003, 09:11:51 PM »
why did he say that mario sunshine is a lot like luigi's mansion in how it is a spin off? mario sunshine was a lot like mario 64. okie dokie.

Offline HolyPaladin

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2003, 05:07:01 AM »
mjbd: What's GCN2?  I knew Nintendo was has another game console on the way and probably is planning on another successor to the Game Boy in the very near future, but what is this GCN2?  Is it an upgrade of the present one?  (I know what it is refering to, but am griping yet again about the name people keep giving it, because it continually makes less and less sense with each and every passing day.)

I grow tired of people suggesting what Nintendo needs to do, as if we somehow know more about running a huge, industry-leading, industry-defining, industry-redefining business than Nintendo does.  We will never, ever, ever (And that goes for all the "experts" at IGN and every other website and magazine out there, too.) know everything about the matter that Nintendo knows and never be able to understand it as well or as deeply as they do, will not see the big picture the way that they do or in the detail that Nintendo does.  Every move they make is planned, replanned, calculated, and recalculated, and always for a list of purposes and reasons, even if its results are less favorable than desired.  None of us could ever run it any better.  They're the experts, while we are merely on the outside looking in.
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If whatever I just posted sounds rude/hateful/whatever then you probably read it wrong, but I will insert apology here, anyways, just in case.

Offline HereticPB

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2003, 10:03:54 AM »
That's the problem with these boards. Overrun with children and people that aren't bright at all. People are thick as a brick and can't take 5 mins out of their pityful lives to read just a page long rant of stuff Nintendo is already doing and fixing.

Just wonderfull and thank you for boaring me to hell.

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Offline Clonester

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2003, 10:15:53 AM »
Good read!

Unlike 95% of the other people here I'd rather read a long, informative post (even if it is stuff we've all heard before) than many short posts. It's like reading a good editorial.
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Offline Andu_Tros

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RE: The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2003, 03:07:21 PM »
good call Clonester, nice icon btw.  I actually did read the post and, it did have good points...mainly the mistakes that were made, and the fact that games need to be fresh.  Right now, we are in a time when rehashes and sequels are the majority of new games released, especially from Nintendo.  I challenge Nintendo's own internal studio, EAD, to create a game so deep, immense, and moving that it leaves the gaming industry, hardcore gamers, and even casual gamers totally speachless, using a totally original storyline and original characters.  I know they could do it.  Yes I realize I just said something that I would "like" for Nintendo to do, which as Grey Ninja said seriously needs to take a seat and let the company do it's job, but I'm supporting the point of games being fresh.  Again, good thoughts nemo_83.
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Offline Chode2234

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2003, 05:45:25 AM »
I agree, I think my dissapointment with the gamecube (although I love you you little box) is that nothing has been very revolutionary and mind blowing, it has just been prettier.

I would love to see something revolutionary, but I also want another zelda.
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Offline nemo_83

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The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2003, 11:06:16 PM »
Since I originally made this post I have read new information, mostly on this forum.  I think the name N5 is cool.  N5 as in, In 2005.  As long as it isn't a 5.  I have been reading more rummors of a definate 2005 release for N5 and a lot of games being moved to it.  I don't know where all of this is coming from, but it is all pretty cool.  This gen doesn't seem like anything but remakes and sequels.  I'm tired of it.  Also the reason I compared Sunshine to Manshion is because neither is a true Mario game.  They seem like filler games.  Plus they both had backpacks which I hope to never see again.  I want a Mario game with platforming not searching.  And both brothers.

What if next gen Sony and MS really push DVD playback, DVD recording, and Tivo like hardware?  Nintendo should push the fact that the competition is not about gaming, but rather about being a vcr.  That kind of advertising that points at the competition with the middle finger.
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Offline kennyb27

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RE:The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2003, 08:43:32 AM »
Couple points I'd like to make:

First you say
Quote

What I'm getting at is that Nintendo needs to make new games that are geared to the older market. I look at their new games on Cube and they follow the same trends of design as found in Mario and Animal Crossing. This is a mistake. What makes those art styles so great is thier individual nature.
Then comment
Quote

I say focus on advancing cel shading technologies. A game can look perfect as a cartoon, but can only look like a botched attempt at realism when it well realism is used. The point is to dicover a new form of freedom for the artist. The developer should not be restrained to making the game look real. Then it looks uninspired.
It just doesn't fit.

You talk about changing styles to appeal to different "ages" as one would say.  This is what Nintendo DID do.  When they moved from SNES to N64 they changed the style of Mario to 3D thereby changing the game in itself.  When they moved from N64 to GCN they again changed the style of Mario to a island-themed waterpack game.  I, for one, thought it was a great game.  Point being: when you change the style the game changes, that's what Nintendo does.

You say Nintendo has a shortage of buttons on their controller.  Stupid.  PS2 has ten plus a D-pad and two analog sticks.  GameCube has eight or ten if you count the click on the L and R buttons like I do, because they can in fact be used as separate buttons, oh yeah, and a D-pad and two analog sticks, go figure.  

And you automatically assume online is the absolute future of gaming; I don't see the point of that.  

We have two years until the the first console is launched, let's leave the speculation until then and do what we should be doing: enjoying the games that we have.
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Offline The Real Mario

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RE:The Next Wave: A War of Chance
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2003, 03:27:11 PM »
Actually, he's right about the Cube's lack of buttons.  Or should I say button.  The missing shoulder button on the GameCube is really annoying for 3rd parties converting their ports to our beloved cube.  I cant even count the number of times I've restarted myself in SSX Tricky b/c the reset button is one of the main buttons instead of the select button like on the PS2.
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