Topic: Reggie Fils-Aime Responds to Declining Wii Sales

[Sarail]

Was anyone butt-hurt when SEGA stopped making consoles? No.

Actually, yes.

*raises hand*

I'd rather have a head-to-head duel between Nintendo and Sega ANYDAY over this mess of a three-console war that's been going on for the last 10-12 years. I wanted so badly for the Dreamcast to succeed, but it just didn't happen. I think more creativity and innovation was sparked when it was just Nintendo and Sega, too. Maybe it was just all of the crazy IPs that came out, but whatever. The 16 to 64-bit era of games was absolutely incredible. I'll never forget all of the memories I had with Nintendo/Sega... or even Nintendo/Sony during the 64-bit wars.

I wish we could go back to that, though. Sure would be nice to have a head-to-head battle again -- I'm sure this is what most "dude-bro" gamers think is occurring now anyway. Nintendo doesn't really matter in their minds, as it's mainly Sony vs. Microsoft for them.

But anyway, yes, I was hurt when Sega decided to stop making consoles. Dreamcast was awesome... and Microsoft is NOT a good replacement for them.

[Chozo Ghost]

There was only one 64-bit system and that was the N64, unless you happen to count the Atari Jaguar but that is debatable. The Sega Saturn and Playstation 1 and everything else during that generation was only 32-bit.

[Sarail]

Oh, absolutely. I realize the PSX wasn't a 64-bit system, but I consider it in the same generation as the N64 because... because well, it was Sony's first (next?) generational console. To me, there wasn't a "32-bit" generation of consoles -- just a jump from 16-bit to 64-bit via Nintendo. Hey, I can't help it that Sony's console wasn't as powerful as the N64. Although, it is true Saturn was a 32-bit console. It failed to really materialize here in the States, though.

[Chozo Ghost]

I consider the SNES in its final years to be Nintendo's 32-bit system. If you look at the SNES games that came out in the last few years of its life like DKC, Killer Instinct, Super Mario RPG, and so on the graphics really rivaled that of the Saturn or PS1. From what I understand Nintendo was able to make the SNES more powerful than 16-bit by putting special chips into the cartridges which made it more powerful. It was just very costly to do though... I remember SNES games sometimes being like $60 or $70. N64 carts were expensive too, and that's why it ended up in 2nd place even though it was technologically superior to the PS1.

[Sarail]

What were those workstations used to develop some of the games from the last year or so of the SNES? SGIs? I think those were what allowed a lot of the 3D modeling for characters/backgrounds/etc.. I remember being so enamored with Killer Instinct and DKC. Crazy. I sure do miss that first time experience.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@defalcos

Don't forget they could also just play the unopened Wii games on their backlog.  Or the Wii gems they skipped because it came out at the same time as God of Assassins' Duty: World at Warcraft.

[broodwars]

@defalcos

Don't forget they could also just play the unopened Wii games on their backlog.  Or the Wii gems they skipped because it came out at the same time as God of Assassins' Duty: World at Warcraft.

EDIT: I hate this forum's programming bugs with a burning passion. I had to copy and paste the following paragraphs into 3 separate programs before I could get them to display even close to correctly here (the forums kept wanting to bold everything).

If the Wii had gems I skipped, I probably would.      I've probably played nearly every game of note on the Wii.  If I didn't play it, it was likely because it didn't measure up to games I played on other other platforms.  That's kind of the story of the Wii to gamers like myself.

I suppose I would probably fall under your B category, thedefalcos.  When I begged my parents to get me a Wii for my birthday in April 2007, I truly believed in the dream of the Wii and the possibilities afforded by the Wii Remote.  I played Zack & Wiki, and I was astounded by the many different purposes you could put the Wii Remote to.  I praised this to my coworkers at work at the time, who were considering getting a Wii.

Then the years rolled on, and nothing further was really done to push the innovative uses of motion control in games, probably partially because the technology largely didn't work until Motion+.  I was frequently unsatisfied with the software library on the Wii.  With notable exceptions, I've found Nintendo's 1st party Wii releases lacking.  I won't go into the whole "core" and casual" nonsense.  I've moved on from that state of mind.  I just find the quality and quantity of their software largely lacking, as well as being notably shorter or overly-simplistic than I'd like.  Each year, fewer games that appeal to my sensibilities were released on Wii.  I got a PS3 and 360 to help me fill in those gaps, and I haven't regretted that decision since.

Personally, I'd love to be able to just have unconditional faith in Nintendo like I once did 5 years ago.  But I look at NoA, and I see a company that just doesn't want to release games I want to play.  It's not that those games aren't being made on Wii, as evidenced by the Operation Rainfall titles.  Nintendo of America just doesn't want to bring them over here, and that makes it really hard for me to support them.  And the games they do, they give a very lackluster marketing campaign (Sin & Punishment 2, Xenoblade, Metroid Prime 3, etc.).  And, sadly, Reggie has been in charge during this period of time.

[Kairon]

I think of Sega, and then I turn to Nintendo and say, "please, for the love of god, stay profitable."

[Chocobo_Rider]

I think of Sega, and then I turn to Nintendo and say, "please, for the love of god, stay profitable."

For the foreseeable future, you got nothing to worry about.

[thedefalcos]

I think of Sega, and then I turn to Nintendo and say, "please, for the love of god, stay profitable."

For the foreseeable future, you got nothing to worry about.

Yeah, I agree. It took Atari and Sega both 3 failed consoles in a row before they gave up.  Don't think Nintendo is going anywhere.

[thedefalcos]

@defalcos

Don't forget they could also just play the unopened Wii games on their backlog.  Or the Wii gems they skipped because it came out at the same time as God of Assassins' Duty: World at Warcraft.

EDIT: I hate this forum's programming bugs with a burning passion. I had to copy and paste the following paragraphs into 3 separate programs before I could get them to display even close to correctly here (the forums kept wanting to bold everything).

I suppose I would probably fall under your B category, thedefalcos.  When I begged my parents to get me a Wii for my birthday in April 2007, I truly believed in the dream of the Wii and the possibilities afforded by the Wii Remote.  I played Zack & Wiki, and I was astounded by the many different purposes you could put the Wii Remote to.  I praised this to my coworkers at work at the time, who were considering getting a Wii.

Then the years rolled on, and nothing further was really done to push the innovative uses of motion control in games, probably partially because the technology largely didn't work until Motion+.  I was frequently unsatisfied with the software library on the Wii.  With notable exceptions, I've found Nintendo's 1st party Wii releases lacking.  I won't go into the whole "core" and casual" nonsense.  I've moved on from that state of mind.  I just find the quality and quantity of their software largely lacking, as well as being notably shorter or overly-simplistic than I'd like.  Each year, fewer games that appeal to my sensibilities were released on Wii.  I got a PS3 and 360 to help me fill in those gaps, and I haven't regretted that decision since.

And that's a totally acceptable response. You bought the system early on and it failed to deliver. I agree with you to som extent. For example, I also think that it's full potential has yet to be reached. Real Time Strategies would AWESOME on the Wii, yet we haven't really seen any.  Rail shooters should have been a blast, but instead we got the two Resident Evil games and DS: Extraction which are great games, but that's it? Those and a bunch of old arcade ports? Goldeneye, Prime 3, and The Conduit showed that motion controls can bring freshness to a stale genre and what did Nintendo try to do with it? Outside of those games and the COD/MOH ports, nothing.  Red Steel 2 and Conduit 2 fell short. So, see, I am not without my complaints. But, all the great games that ARE there have kept me pretty happy.

And you bought a PS3 and have been happy with it since.  So, that leads me to think you also fall under category one.  You still have faith in Nintendo to do what? Provide all the genres and franchises you want? That's impossible to do any more. Even in the SEGA/Nintendo rivalry days you had to buy TWO consoles to get all the great franchises. You're only two options should be either buy more than one console like you did or stick with just one and not complain about getting every single game you want which is what I did.

[thedefalcos]

@defalcos

Don't forget they could also just play the unopened Wii games on their backlog.  Or the Wii gems they skipped because it came out at the same time as God of Assassins' Duty: World at Warcraft.

You know what really bugs me about that?  I am a middle and high school teacher and I hear waaaay too often that the Wii sucks because it doesn't have those games you mentioned.  I even heard one of them say, with agreement from others, "If it doesn't put a gun in my hand, I don't want to play it." Urgh! I even had one student sell his copy of Skyward Sword he got for Christmas (before he even opened it) for a pair a freakin' sunglasses. Didn't even care to know if the game was fun or not. And they're a bunch of hypocrites, too. Most of the time they will play Wii sports up at the school all the while loudly proclaiming that they never play the Wii. It's an image thing or something.

Unfortunately, most of the people who read this forum have already played the Wii backlog and everyone else wouldn't dare be caught reading something with Nintendo on it.  Remember when it was COOL to play a variety of games on a system no matter what genre it was? The same guys I hung out with as a kid would play Contra and Double Dragon with me one day and then the next day could sit for a spell and take turns playing Tecmo Bowl, Castlevania, or Dragon Warrior. It was all the same to us because it was ALL FUN.

[thedefalcos]

Was anyone butt-hurt when SEGA stopped making consoles? No.

Actually, yes.

*raises hand*

I'd rather have a head-to-head duel between Nintendo and Sega ANYDAY over this mess of a three-console war that's been going on for the last 10-12 years. I wanted so badly for the Dreamcast to succeed, but it just didn't happen. I think more creativity and innovation was sparked when it was just Nintendo and Sega, too. Maybe it was just all of the crazy IPs that came out, but whatever. The 16 to 64-bit era of games was absolutely incredible. I'll never forget all of the memories I had with Nintendo/Sega... or even Nintendo/Sony during the 64-bit wars.

I wish we could go back to that, though. Sure would be nice to have a head-to-head battle again -- I'm sure this is what most "dude-bro" gamers think is occurring now anyway. Nintendo doesn't really matter in their minds, as it's mainly Sony vs. Microsoft for them.

But anyway, yes, I was hurt when Sega decided to stop making consoles. Dreamcast was awesome... and Microsoft is NOT a good replacement for them.

So, did you buy a Sega CD?  A Saturn? the 32X?  That's what needed to happen for the Dreamcast to survive. Sega had no money and were in debt when the DC came out. That and some bad management missteps caused them to pull the plug on it too soon. But, if you didn't buy those other ones, you shouldn't feel so bad when Sega stopped making systems. And, if you didn't buy them, it would also prove my point. That your loyalty to a brand goes only so far as the last good product they produced. 

I loved the Genesis, but I am no fanboy. Those other systems stunk it up in my opinion. So I went the PS1 and later, the XBOX route. N64 was awesome but I was a broke bloke and couldn't afford it and the Gamecube had almost nothing on it that I wanted to play that wasn't already on the xbox, which had exclusives I DID want to play. I didn't get all bent out of shape about it, though. I just didn't buy it.

[Chozo Ghost]

I think of Sega, and then I turn to Nintendo and say, "please, for the love of god, stay profitable."

Didn't Nintendo just recently have its first unprofitable quarter in like 30 years or something like that? And this happened under Reggie/Iwata's watch, so... As senile as Yamauchi may have been in his final years, Nintendo never had an unprofitable quarter under his watch.

[motang]

Well maybe cause there are no new games coming out...hmmm!

[nickmitch]

I think of Sega, and then I turn to Nintendo and say, "please, for the love of god, stay profitable."

Didn't Nintendo just recently have its first unprofitable quarter in like 30 years or something like that? And this happened under Reggie/Iwata's watch, so... As senile as Yamauchi may have been in his final years, Nintendo never had an unprofitable quarter under his watch.

First two, actually.

[UncleBob]

Don't put too much stock (heh) into a bad quarter here or there.  While investors freak out about it, let's be fair - investors are fickle people.  They freak out over the smallest things...

That's the thing with sales performance - you can look at a history of a company and cut out various slivers of time where they may not have performed well - but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the end of the company because they have a rough patch.

I'll be interested in seeing how Nintendo's year-ending numbers are.

[nickmitch]

It's the law of averages, nobody bats a thousand.

[Chozo Ghost]

Isn't it paradoxical that only when Nintendo has achieved unparallelled success with the Wii that now and only now do they suffer their first (in decades) quarter loss? How is that even possible?

[Caterkiller]

Wait a quarter with less profits or no profits period?

@thedefalcos

You're failing those kids right?

[Kairon]

Isn't it paradoxical that only when Nintendo has achieved unparallelled success with the Wii that now and only now do they suffer their first (in decades) quarter loss? How is that even possible?

I blame the weak American dollar. This isn't Nintendo's first unprofitable quarter in recent memory, but past quarters like this frequently had the exchange rate as a major reason too. I believe this is Nintendo's first annual posted loss? Well, a weak American dollar and strong yen for an entire year is a major factor cutting into their earnings I think, in conjunction with a pretty dangerous transition to two new platforms and probably some really expensive R&D costs trying to out innovate their own successes of the DS and Wii.

[TJ Spyke]

It's not just the dollar, even the Euro is at a 11-year low against the yen. Of course Nintendo has most of their sales in the US, so a stronger yen is actually bad for them.

[Chozo Ghost]

Maybe that's why Reggie didn't want to release the Rainfall games in NA because the sales would have been in dollars.

[nickmitch]

Isn't it paradoxical that only when Nintendo has achieved unparallelled success with the Wii that now and only now do they suffer their first (in decades) quarter loss? How is that even possible?

Not really. Wii sales fell off slowly. Then the company's new best selling product had to be sold at a loss to move any units at all. It's just been a few bad business decisions.

Isn't it paradoxical that only when Nintendo has achieved unparallelled success with the Wii that now and only now do they suffer their first (in decades) quarter loss? How is that even possible?

I blame the weak American dollar. This isn't Nintendo's first unprofitable quarter in recent memory, but past quarters like this frequently had the exchange rate as a major reason too. I believe this is Nintendo's first annual posted loss? Well, a weak American dollar and strong yen for an entire year is a major factor cutting into their earnings I think, in conjunction with a pretty dangerous transition to two new platforms and probably some really expensive R&D costs trying to out innovate their own successes of the DS and Wii.

In the most recent quarter, the bulk of the net loss is attributable a currency exchange loss, but both this and the previous quarters still had an operating loss, especially the quarter before which had a MASSIVE operating loss with a rather small currency exchange loss.

For clarity, Revenues are money you get. Subtract the cost of what you sell, and that's your gross. Gross minus operating expenses (salaries, R&D, etc) is the operating income. Non-operating income/expenses include various items that don't fall under operating expenses like interest and of course currency exchange loss. Factor in those and that's your earnings before taxes which I was using as a blanket term for loss.

Wait a quarter with less profits or no profits period?

A quarter with negative profits.

[Chozo Ghost]

Then the company's new best selling product had to be sold at a loss to move any units at all.

The 3DS isn't being sold at a loss.