Topic: Episode 262: Where Pride Goes

[Chocobo_Rider]

Another stellar episode.  Best podcast on the interwebs. Responses...

1. Jonny, did you beat all the Epic Yarn levels with the highest bead requirements?  That's where (I felt) the challenge in the game was.  It was nice because it was as if every level gave the option of a hard mode or an easy mode depending on how you wanted to play at that time.  Wanna just clear the stage? Easy. Wanna clear the stage with the highest bead level? Hard(er). 

2. I love that James burns through games like I do.  It's great having a podcast crew with such a range of game consumption.  That way, we don't just get one perspective all the time.

3. Oh Lindy, do not be part of the DLC problem! That Subway bullshit is evil!  James has the right idea.  But, throw the developers or marketers or whoever comes up with these DLC rip-offs off the building!

4. hahah Around 25 mins into the podcast, "you all suck" and "robot" from James outta no where made me burst out laughing!

5. I played through Super Mario Land a billion times because it was one of the few games I had at the time. Though I clearly loved it at the time, it is very, very, very primitive and sure stretched the definition of a "Mario platformer".

6. Wario Land Shake It was so good it got me interested in that whole series.  We bought WarioWorld for GC but... haven't played it yet =P

7. I looked up Rochard.  Looks like great gameplay, but I'm too much of a narrative-whore to get behind a game with such a doofy protagonist.  But yea, most gamers should really like its concepts.

8. Okami Wii U would be amazing.  Moving on...

9. I never got in to the Alien(s) films.  Infestation looks like an amazing game but it would probably hook me better if it was a new IP (narrative) instead of the liscence.  Again, that's just me.

10. Horizon Riders was my most highly anticipated WiiWare game.  Now it looks like it will simply be my most disappointing.  If anyone wants details I'll gladly provide them.  =(

11. I'll be getting some 3DS games for XMas (Kart for sure!), but I'm waiting to get the system itself until the white or green versions hit the states.

12. I will stop buying new Layton games when I stop finding them extremely awesome.  Enough said.

13. Shattered dimensions seemed pretty awesome for a SpiderMan game.  EoT looks as good if not better, but I will be missing the black suit!

14. Like some of the crew, I keep myself in the dark about games I'm really looking forward too. Skyward Sword is no exception. I will also be getting the Special Edition with the controller.  Can't wait!

15. I would truly, truly love full voice acting in Nintendo franchises.  I mean, a "deep" genre like Zelda is just begs for it and even something like the Mario games? There are already designated voices/actors for all those characters... why not just let them say more than one or two words at a time!?

However, I absolutely loved how Nintendo took that plunge with Other M.  But instead of being understanding and grateful for a first (admittedly shakey) step in the right direction, gamers sharpened their pitchforks and lit their torches so I'm sure that doomed us to at least 5-10 more years of clicking through text.  Way to go, irrational gamers! =\

To clarify....
Not what I wanted: "To me, this is a piece of crap but it's good for the medium so I'll pretend to like it."
What I wanted: "To me, this is a piece of crap but it's good for the medium so I will use that to remain level-headed in my critiques."
What happened: "This is a piece of crap! Why did they make Samus a bed-wetting little bitch!? Soldiers don't cry!! Why isn't Samus wearing her Master Chief armor!? RAAAAAAAA!!!!"

[Da Jarvis]

You know, this may sound strange, but I actually haven't been watching any footage of Skyward Sword aside from seeing the trailer at the E3 Press Conference. This might be because I got way to hyped after seeing and learning everything I had about Twilight Princess before I had actually gotten the game bundled with my Wii when I bought it that holiday. They only thing I have read and the main thing that got me hyped about the game was when Miyamoto was quoted saying, "I am adding something that was missing from Wind Waker..." That quote alone has been reasurance that this will indeed be a great title, as Wind Waker is probably my favorite Console Zelda out of all of them. Either way, I am ready to finally get my long awaited "Zelda Break" xD.


On the note of the 3DS, I have to say that I agree with Jon Lindemann on this one, as I too feel that the 3DS still has yet to get a veriaty of games that makes me willing to run out and by a 3DS. With my library of DS and GBA games still growing, I still haven't seen one game that would make me want to dish out the 200 bucks (system plus game/points) to join the 3DS crowd. I mean, don't get me wrong, I really like some of the features and the fact the E-Shop is expanding to NES and GBA games is awesome and all, but if the 3DS could manage to get both a long lasting RPG like a Pokemon game or something like Radiant Historia or Dragon Quest game AND get some other interesting and unquie titles that aren't remakes of games I already own mulitple versions of (Metal Gear, Zelda OoT, ect), I think this would be a different story. Once I start seeing the unique games (Maybe a new Metroid?) like the ones that had me  investing in a DS Lite (Zelda Spirit Tracks, Ace Attorney, Radiant Historia, Ghost Trick, Pokemon Platinum, Ect), then I will be happy to jump in the crowd with everyone else.

[NWR_Neal]

Spider-Man: Edge of Time is total crap. I'm sorry whoever (Jonny?) has any interest in this.

Zach should be reviewing the DS version (in the mail). It's developed by Other Ocean (Dark Void Zero guys). Maybe that isn't total crap. The other versions, sadly, are.

[Shaymin]

You know, this may sound strange, but I actually haven't been watching any footage of Skyward Sword aside from seeing the trailer at the E3 Press Conference. This might be because I got way to hyped after seeing and learning everything I had about Twilight Princess before I had actually gotten the game bundled with my Wii when I bought it that holiday. They only thing I have read and the main thing that got me hyped about the game was when Miyamoto was quoted saying, "I am adding something that was missing from Wind Waker..." That quote alone has been reasurance that this will indeed be a great title, as Wind Waker is probably my favorite Console Zelda out of all of them. Either way, I am ready to finally get my long awaited "Zelda Break" xD.

I've been on a media blackout (E3 this year notwithstanding) since June of 2010. Don't feel bad.

[Crimm]

I've been on a media blackout (E3 this year notwithstanding) since June of 2010. Don't feel bad.

It's about a dude in green, who uses a sword.


From the sky.

[Jonnyboy117]

NinSage:


I did everything in Kirby Epic Yarn except the hide-and-seek games, which are boring. At no point does the game become hard, and in fact I got most of the treasures and gold medals without even trying to do so. There are few levels that you have to play differently at all to clear 100%, with the bosses being notable and greatly appreciated exceptions.


You are completely off-base with Other M. If the writing and acting are poor, I will say so and take zero responsibility for Nintendo's future decisions on whether to add voice to their productions. If you're going to do something, do it well. Nintendo did not meet that basic standard of quality in certain aspects of Other M. As I said on the show, putting bad voices in Zelda would not solve the problem of the game lacking production value. It's only worth doing if you do it properly, and that's what they should do.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I did everything in Kirby Epic Yarn except the hide-and-seek games, which are boring. At no point does the game become hard, and in fact I got most of the treasures and gold medals without even trying to do so. There are few levels that you have to play differently at all to clear 100%, with the bosses being notable and greatly appreciated exceptions.

*shrug*

OK, well, it certainly is one of the easiest games of all time (no dying and all), I just wanted to make sure you were also counting the "hard(er)" parts.  So you were, so we're good - sorry you didn't enjoy it more!



 

You are completely off-base with Other M.

This whole court is out of order! *ahem*... please continue...

 

If the writing and acting are poor, I will say so...

Good, I believe my "what I wanted" category says to do just that.

 

...and take zero responsibility for Nintendo's future decisions on whether to add voice to their productions.

But, if you want voice acting, why not voice your critiques in a way that ultimately gets you what you want?

If the bridge to your destination isn't to your liking, why burn it down instead of suggest a better one?

 

If you're going to do something, do it well. Nintendo did not meet that basic standard of quality in certain aspects of Other M. As I said on the show, putting bad voices in Zelda would not solve the problem of the game lacking production value. It's only worth doing if you do it properly, and that's what they should do.

Other M had 2 voice-related problems... The dialogue was written and delivered in a melodramatic manner and when Sakamoto revealed Samus' character, half the audience didn't like what they saw (for myriad reasons).

I would propose applying the same scrutiny to any modern game that attempts drama with large amounts of voiced dialogue.  They don't come off as melodramatic?

If Other M was a new IP, would Samus' character really have been that shocking?

And keep in mind Other M did not betray the character of Samus (as some have suggested).  The Samus depicted in Other M is the real deal.  Try reading the dialogue from 2004's Metroid Fusion out loud.  Shocking, isn't it?
 There's also the manga Sakamoto supervised back in '02.  Some of the most "shocking" scenes in Other M are ripped right from those pages.  The worst offense Other M really committed was that the Western audiences weren't prepared for it.

[broodwars]

The worst offense Other M really committed was that the Western audiences weren't prepared for it.

Actually, the worst offense Other M committed was not being a very good game, and that its director was interested only in making his pet project rather than a good game.

And something Sakamoto needs to come to understand (as many creators do), is that after a product or character has existed in the public's eye for a period of time, it no longer belongs only to the creator.  The depiction of Samus in Other M is both a betrayal to the fans and to the character's own history in the Metroid series.  The Samus in Other M does not exist in any other Metroid game, even Fusion.  The consumer is King and the consumer has said that that character is not Samus Aran, and so it shall be.  But we've been over this, and I'm not particularly interested in rehashing why Other M isn't a very good game, even if it was a game I enjoyed in spite of its many flaws.

I think the lesson Nintendo needs to take away from Other M was that the fans didn't hate the voice acting because they hate voice acting.  They hated it because the Other M voice acting was horrendous in terms of performance, a performance apparently specifically ordered by Nintendo corporate and Sakamoto.  That doesn't mean that voice acting is a bad move, and I welcome real attempts by Nintendo to get it right because they have been way behind the curve on this for way too long.

Incidentally, on the subject of the Uncharted 3 Subway thing, if I understand the situation correctly you go into Subway and buy a sandwich.  You get a code that allows you to play Uncharted 3 multiplayer before the game releases, and you get a special taunt that has your character doing the "5 Dollar Foot Long" hand gesture.  That doesn't appeal to me since I'm not a big multiplayer fan, but it's also not hurting anything and it's giving Naughty Dog even more valuable feedback after the public Beta.  They'll know even faster now what may need to be tweaked, which makes the final retail multiplayer more enjoyable for us when we buy the game.  I don't see why anyone should complain about that.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Actually, the worst offense Other M committed was not being a very good game, and that its director was interested only in making his pet project rather than a good game.

Right, so he intentionally set out to make something people wouldn't really like but that he would like. Yea.

And something Sakamoto needs to come to understand (as many creators do), is that after a product or character has existed in the public's eye for a period of time, it no longer belongs only to the creator.

You're getting confused here.  The goal is to entertain the audience, not cater to them.  Take away the artists' muse and what do you have? Game designed via board meetings and focus groups? No one wants that.

If character's were under the whim of the audience instead of some original creator, Mario would have donned a backwards cap and parachute pants in the early 90s.  I'm glad he didn't.

The depiction of Samus in Other M is both a betrayal to the fans and to the character's own history in the Metroid series.

 False
 
 

The Samus in Other M does not exist in any other Metroid game, even Fusion.

 Do I have to start pulling out individual quotes?
 
 

The consumer is King and the consumer has said that that character is not Samus Aran, and so it shall be.

 Inside your head.
 
 

But we've been over this, and I'm not particularly interested in rehashing why Other M isn't a very good game, even if it was a game I enjoyed in spite of its many flaws.

 You don't even consider a game you enjoy to be good.  There's not much hope for that case.

 

I think the lesson Nintendo needs to take away from Other M was that the fans didn't hate the voice acting because they hate voice acting.

 Again, as per my first message that is not how "fans" communicated that concept when they are just spewing anger about betrayal, sexism, and other ideas they aren't fully understanding.
 
 

They hated it because the Other M voice acting was horrendous in terms of performance, a performance apparently specifically ordered by Nintendo corporate and Sakamoto.

 I'm sorry, given the history of voice acting in video games, I can't possibly believe that.  If you can show me how, across the board, people subjectively disliked Other M's dialogue on a PURELY performance level, I will give you a cookie.  A big cookie.  Go on.... get to it .... it's a good cookie!
 
 

That doesn't mean that voice acting is a bad move, and I welcome real attempts by Nintendo to get it right because they have been way behind the curve on this for way too long.

Good, again, I agree! But my entire point was simply that anyone like us who feels that way has been let down by all the gamers who, instead of taking a step-back and level-headedly critiquing the game, just exploded with rage and shock for foolish reasons.

Case in point: I've never heard G4 say "f*** you" during a review before.  Was that constructive?

Lastly, real fans of Metroid did like Other M.

Proof: http://www.metroid-database.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3710

[broodwars]

EDIT: For some reason, this post went haywire on the Bolding after I used it once, and nothing I've done will fix it so I guess it'll just have to stay that way.

Actually, the worst offense Other M committed was not being a very good game, and that its director was interested only in making his pet project rather than a good game.

Right, so he intentionally set out to make something people wouldn't really like but that he would like. Yea.

No, he set out to make a pet project that satisfied his personal sensibilities and how he viewed Metroid, rather than something people actually wanted to play.

You're getting confused here. The goal is to entertain the audience, not cater to them.  Take away the artists' muse and what do you have? Game designed via board meetings and focus groups? No one wants that.
If character's were under the whim of the audience instead of some original creator, Mario would have donned a backwards cap and parachute pants in the early 90s.  I'm glad he didn't.

And you just made my point for me.  There is a delicate balancing act with how characters must be portrayed once they have entered the public consciousness.  Once you have established a character and it has become beloved, you can't radically change them from what has been established and expect the fanbase to just accept them.  Just look at the past 50 years of mascot history, and you'll see many an attempt to radically change beloved characters to fit some new vision of the franchise that failed because they went too far.

The depiction of Samus in Other M is both a betrayal to the fans and to the character's own history in the Metroid series.

 
 False

I see you put a lot of thought into that rebuttal.  I guess I win by default, and I'll remind you before you try again that I can pull out the ridiculous Ridley scene anytime you want to challenge that.
 
 

The Samus in Other M does not exist in any other Metroid game, even Fusion.

  Do I have to start pulling out individual quotes?

No, but apparently I do.  And good job with that non-rebuttal there.
 

 The consumer is King and the consumer has said that that character is not Samus Aran, and so it shall be.

 
 Inside your head.

See the above on fandom accepting character reinventions.  It doesn't matter what Sakamoto thinks Metroid should be if the fans aren't going to support it with their money.  The customer is always right, and the customer said "NO!" here. End of discussion.
 

You don't even consider a game you enjoy to be good.  There's not much hope for that case.

It's called a "guilty pleasure".  Perhaps you've heard of the term.  Other M is a terribly designed game with atrocious writing, but it can be satisfying in its own way.

I'm sorry, given the history of voice acting in video games, I can't possibly believe that.  If you can show me how, across the board, people subjectively disliked Other M's dialogue on a PURELY performance level, I will give you a cookie.  A big cookie.  Go on.... get to it .... it's a good cookie!

Sorry, but I'm not going to do your research for you.  I don't care enough to waste any more time on this.  There was a topic on these forums way back when Other M was releasing.  I can't remember if it was the subject of the article or if it was a link someone like Black posted, but it was revealed that Other M's voice acting turned out as it did because that was the performance the voice director wanted.  They wanted "cold and detached."

But I shouldn't even need an article to point this out to you: an actor's performance in a piece of media is shaped by the director. The performances in Other M were judged to be a finished product by the game director and the vocal director, or else the game would not have shipped.  This isn't the 80s or 90s (or 2010 with Ignition and Arc Rise Fantasia), where companies did quick and dirty anime and cartoon dubs just to get products out the door quickly.  This game had major money thrown at it, and was released only when the game was finished.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Evidence I've cited:
-the 2002 Metroid manga
-the 2004 Metroid fusion text
-the quantified beliefs of real, live Metroid fans

Evidence you've cited:
-your own personal theories and philosophies

~~~

Maybe when you stop ignoring my first and third pieces, and provided counter-points on the second, I'll have something worth rebutting?  It's not doing research for others, it's just supporting your beliefs with facts.

Until then, I'm good, thanks!

[broodwars]

Evidence I've cited:
-the 2002 Metroid manga

Very few people have read the Metroid manga and even fewer care about it, and the manga doesn't matter anyway if it conflicts with the characterization in the actual games (which if the manga is indeed like Other M, it does).  If it's not in the games or can't be supported by the games, it's generally not going to be considered canon (especially if the manga hasn't been released outside Japan).  Now, from what I understand, aspects of that manga have appeared in the games previously, and people really haven't had a problem with it.  Other M just tries to throw a great big dose of condensed stupid into the story, and that's when everything goes awry.

-the 2004 Metroid fusion text

And I fail to understand what you hoped to achieve by bringing that up.  I remember finding Fusion's story incredibly dumb, but there wasn't anything offensive about Samus' characterization in it.  Samus just talks about her former commanding officer and how she looked up to him in her early days as a Federation soldier.  She then talks about how she doesn't like to follow orders (which clashes with her characterization in Other M, by the way), and so she eventually left the Galactic Federation.

Honestly, I thought Samus' backstory was fine in general in Other M, with the exception of stupid Sakamoto-isms like the upside-down thumbs-up and her constant, never-ending whining about "THE BABY".  I think most people probably were as well.  It was the delivery and the particular details of it that people had issue with.  What most people expressed problems with in Other M was how Samus reacts during the events of the game (especially her nonsensical reaction to Ridley, which I've covered so many times that if you don't know it by now you aren't even trying) because it makes no sense.  Samus having all the personality of an original series Cylon didn't help matters, either.

-the quantified beliefs of real, live Metroid fans

So?  I can do that too.  You don't even have to try to find "real, live Metroid fans" on the internet that didn't like Other M and what it did to Samus' character.  And what's that old saying?  That however bad something is, someone out there is the world thinks it's the best thing ever made?

[Chocobo_Rider]

I'm sorry, friend, this is why our discussions just don't work.  I try to provide real factual evidence to support my points, so we can have a discussion.  But you don't hold a discussion with me.  You just dismiss whatever I say and only cite your own opinions as justification for doing so.

If the manga hasn't been read by a lot of people in the West, how does that make it any less Sakamoto's vision of the Metroid universe?  Also, you say that if the manga proves Samus' character in Other M is consistent then.... it doesn't count.... because Other M is not the real Samus.  This is completely backwards logic.  No one can carry on a conversation with logic like that.

I have read the manga.  It sheds a lot of light on the Metroid fiction.  It's online... if this subject meant that much to you, why not educate yourself on it?

You find the dialogue in Fusion "dumb."  Great.  Thanks for sharing.  Now how does that prove or even illustrate anything?
Samus has never enjoyed taking orders.  Look how damn rebellious she is in Other M.  When she's young she's downright contrary, and when she's older, she gets friggin' shot to keep from disobeying orders.  However, the fact is, she always had a soft spot for Adam.  As per the "dumb" text:

"As I listened to the briefing, my thoughts turned to Adam. The real Adam understood me well. He would end orders by saying, "Any objections, Lady?" He knew I wouldn't disagree. That was just his way of noting our trust. I wonder if I can trust this computer, too..."

Lastly, you say you can "do that too" but... you didn't.

This whole discussion was based on whether or not the people who raged about Other M were justified.  I provided third-party, quantitative data illustrating that the people who care most about Metroid like Other M quite a bit! Given the topic, dedicated Metroid fans shouldn't be considered a reach for a sample.  So, if that means nothing to you, then you're asking me to hold a conversation with a brick wall.  And that's not why I frequent this website.

PS -

And what's that old saying?  That however bad something is, someone out there is the world thinks it's the best thing ever made?

No, that's not a saying.

[Sundoulos]

I'm struggling to choose one game - not necessarily a new release - from a handful that look great for the upcoming holiday season. Xenoblade, Zelda Skyward Sword, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 lead the way on Wii. But I'm also tempted to grab Radiant Historia or Star Fox 64 3D for my 3DS. Picking one (two as an absolute max) from that list isn't easy.


I'm also wary about importing since that's virgin gaming territory for me. But nobody else seems to be having issues, so how hard can it be?

I'd definitely pick Xenoblade for one of those titles.  Where Mario Galaxy 2 and Skyward Sword will probably be easily available for a while (and will likely decrease in price over time), the availability of Xenoblade is largely an unknown. 

I recently received my copy of Xenoblade, and it's my first import.  I'm planning to mod my Wii in the next day or two (I'm waiting for a new SD card to arrive via mail), and it will be interesting to see if I had some of the same problems that broodwars had.  Overall, the process looks pretty simple on paper.  We'll see how it goes.

...


Now, regarding the voice acting in Zelda, I can honestly say that it doesn't bother me.  A lot of the characters in modern Zeldas, particularly Anouma's Zeldas, have a sort of goofy or odd characterization by design, and it would be in danger of getting into annoying territory very quickly if not done well.   Do you really want Tingle to have voice acting?  I'd agree that something in the vein of DQ8's voice acting would fit, though.

I'm still thrilled that we're getting orchestrated music in a Zelda game.  The orchestrated pieces I've heard so far in preview videos have really gotten me excited.  Case in point, the Opening/Intro video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP5tVs-qp


I also love that so many of the elements of this game evoke memories of Wind Waker.

[NWR_Neal]

Why do I feel like a weirdo for really enjoying both Other M and Epic Yarn? I found Other M to be an enjoyable Metroid-ish game with a laughably bad story. Yes, I wished it had a little more exploration, but it was still a fun game. The combat was great, if I recall correctly.

Epic Yarn is one of those games that I feel I enjoyed on a different level than 90% of the world (Punch-Out!! being another one). It was easy, but it was delightful. I played the game with a smile throughout. I might not have been pulling my hair out over it, but I enjoyed it...for just shy of 10 hours.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Why do I feel like a weirdo for really enjoying both Other M and Epic Yarn?

Don't worry dude, the silent majority thinks both games are well worth enjoying.

Kirby's Epic Yarn:
88.75% on GameRankings
86 on Metacritic

Metroid Other M:
78.55% on GameRankings
79 on Metacritic

I played KEY with 2p co-op for the entire game.  It was so fun that way.

I really hated the fact that Other M used used turning the controller instead of wm+nunchuk.  BUT... still wound up as second place for my GOTY 2010.

[ejamer]

I'm struggling to choose one game ...

I'd definitely pick Xenoblade for one of those titles.  Where Mario Galaxy 2 and Skyward Sword will probably be easily available for a while (and will likely decrease in price over time), the availability of Xenoblade is largely an unknown. 

...

Appreciate the feedback (here and from others).


Choosing between Xenoblade and Radiant Historia is giving me the hardest time, because future availability is uncertain for both. Unfortunately there is no chance that I'll be able to afford both titles given some recent financial issues. Xenoblade will probably win out unless NoA suddenly shows more interest in retaining core gamers than bottom-line numbers...


Good luck with the homebrew install. We recently bought a (ridiculously cheap) second-hand Wii off Kijiji to act as a Netflix box, and getting GeckoOS installed and running was quick and easy. Since then we haven't used it for anything other than streaming video, but I'm ready for imports if I manage to get copies of Xenoblade and The Last Story eventually.

[Crimm]

I hate all you for reminding me that I'll have to determine if Radiant Historia or Xenoblade is my GOY.

I think I know the answer - but it does suck.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Update: I played through the entirety of Horizon Riders last night.

When I first got the game, I tried both control schemes... using the balance board to steer or just twisting the wiimote to steer.

The balance board was problematic because unless you fudged the calibration, it was very difficult to steer with the precision needed to effectively dodge obstacles and incoming projectiles.  I thought the game was paced too quickly for such a reckless control scheme.

Next, I tried just using the wiimote and ran in to the same problem others have: twisting the wiimote to steer sacrifices vital aiming.

A-ha!: Ultimately, last night, I discovered the perfect solution: sit on the coach with the balance board in front of you.   It felt great! It felt like how pilots in the Macross series have footpedals in the cockpit for steering.  I was able to get really precise control over the character's movement and my hands were free for aiming.

Major negatives: The nunchuk shouldn't be required.  Since you just use 2 directions of the analog stick to toggle through two weapons, you could easily map that to the A button to toggle between the guns.  Also, the jump action should be mapped to a button and definitely not input by flicking the wiimote (which also ruins your aiming!).  Ideally, both problems could have been solved by removing the nunchuk, using "A" to jump and using the d-pad to toggle weapons.
 
Also, the game has NO SAVE FEATURE.  I understand the game isn't that long and most shmups do not have a save feature.  But for some reason, I really feel like this is the kind of game where I wish I could play it and not feel like I had to start from scratch each time.  The last world is very cool, I bet I'd like to just play that now and then.

Building off that, there should be an option to switch characters when you die.  That just seems obvious to me.


Overall: turns out to be a pretty nifty use of the balance board and one I've been waiting for since the peripheral was announced.

There are some major structural flaws (as I mentioned above), but they can all be overcome with minimal headache.

Wishlist: The characters and backstory are rather cliche but have their own unique flavor.  I wish more had been done throughout the game to develop its plot.  There are little 2-sentence title cards describing current events as each stage loads.  Instead of wasting that space with things like "the temperature is 140*. let's get this done fast so our gear doesn't overheat," it would have been nice to actually provide some unobtrusive plot depth!  ... but that's just me.  I understand a lot of gamers' favorite part about plot/cutscenes is the ability to skip them ^_^

[Crimm]

I hate all you for reminding me that I'll have to determine if Radiant Historia or Xenoblade is my GOY.

I think I know the answer - but it does suck.

Also, if you don't play and beat both, then you're dead to me.

[Mop it up]

Why do I feel like a weirdo for really enjoying both Other M and Epic Yarn?

Don't let a few vocal detractors persuade you, you're not the only one who enjoyed those games. I liked Other M except for the story and controls. Sure, those are pretty big parts of that game, and they can be grating, but it's worth slogging through for the good action of the gameplay.

The thing about a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn is that it proves a game doesn't have to be challenging to be fun. I'm not really sure where a mindset like that would come from, maybe from someone growing up in the NES era where most games were brutally difficult as a way of lengthening short games. Epic Yarn is more like a playground, it's about interacting with the environment in interesting ways, it's about discovering new things, both big and small, at every step. I've completed it both in single player and co-op, and it was magical in either setting. Though I did find the co-op more enjoyable, since it opens up even more ways to play around in the stages.

[Chocobo_Rider]

The thing about a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn is that it proves a game doesn't have to be challenging to be fun. I'm not really sure where a mindset like that would come from, maybe from someone growing up in the NES era where most games were brutally difficult as a way of lengthening short games.

My guess would be from even earlier: arcade games designed to gobble down quarters.

Since the origin of popular gaming would stem from an era when there was no such thing as a truly "easy" game, the concept of "gaming = challenging" became part of the newly forming "gamer" mentality.

Also, since those early games didn't have much else (character, story, visuals) to reward the player with, the idea of overcoming hard challenges and getting those initials in the high score screen became paramount.

.... but these are just my theories.

I definitely grew up with the NES era so I played some tough games.  But I never really defined my gaming self by overcoming challenges.  I am proud of the ones I conquered (Ninja Gaiden 2, motha whaaat!!!), but I never sought out experiences for that reason.

[Jonnyboy117]

I have made it very clear on RFN that I enjoy both Epic Yarn and Other M. However, I can still have major criticisms of both games, and I do.

[lolmonade]

I have made it very clear on RFN that I enjoy both Epic Yarn and Other M. However, I can still have major criticisms of both games, and I do.

THATS NOT HOW THE INTERNET WORKS!!!!11!

[NWR_Neal]

By the way, any player can enter doors in Kirby's Return to Dream Land. They basically fixed every thing that wasn't that good in the E3 demo.