Topic: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!

[lolmonade]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

Count me as one of the dumb people but, why do some people NEED to have Linux on everything that 'could run it'? I really don't get it.

Because by installing Linux you can get stuff to do things it wasn't officially supposed to do. With Linux you can install and run a much better web browser on your ps3 than the one provided by Sony, and you can do spreadsheets and all the other things you normally can't do on a PS3 but can do on a computer. So that's the reason. Plus the PS3 is supposed to be some "super computer" (according to Sony anyway) which you can get for an affordable price.

As for installing Linux on wrist watches, coffee machines and microwaves, I guess people just do that for the challenge of it. In the case of the PS3 there are some practical uses for it, though.

Practical use? Come on, I bet everyone that has a PS3 with Linux has a laptop/PC that can do all those things in a better way.

I'll take Mop it up's answer, "Just to do it" I guess.

This is the biggest reason of why people would want to do it.

TL:DR version: Educators and individuals could use a cluster of Playstation 3s to make supercomputers as powerful as multi-millon dollar ones at the fraction of the cost.


Not to say the hacking community shouldn't have the right to use their hardware the way they choose, but this is by far the most impressive usage of otherOS.

[Toruresu]

I'm sure hackers WILL find a way to get Linux working on a PS4, though, Other OS or not.

That goes without saying. I have Linux running on my DS and my Dreamcast... I'm kind of surprised that I haven't found a way of installing it on my toaster oven yet.

Count me as one of the dumb people but, why do some people NEED to have Linux on everything that 'could run it'? I really don't get it.

Because by installing Linux you can get stuff to do things it wasn't officially supposed to do. With Linux you can install and run a much better web browser on your ps3 than the one provided by Sony, and you can do spreadsheets and all the other things you normally can't do on a PS3 but can do on a computer. So that's the reason. Plus the PS3 is supposed to be some "super computer" (according to Sony anyway) which you can get for an affordable price.

As for installing Linux on wrist watches, coffee machines and microwaves, I guess people just do that for the challenge of it. In the case of the PS3 there are some practical uses for it, though.

Practical use? Come on, I bet everyone that has a PS3 with Linux has a laptop/PC that can do all those things in a better way.

I'll take Mop it up's answer, "Just to do it" I guess.

This is the biggest reason of why people would want to do it.

TL:DR version: Educators and individuals could use a cluster of Playstation 3s to make supercomputers as powerful as multi-millon dollar ones at the fraction of the cost.


Not to say the hacking community shouldn't have the right to use their hardware the way they choose, but this is by far the most impressive usage of otherOS.

Well darn. That seems smart, too smart for me!

[NWR_insanolord]

As much as I'd like more functionality, Sony really shouldn't let this incident change their mind about Other OS. You don't negotiate with terrorists. If they set the precedent that they'll give in in a situation like this, not only will it not prevent future attacks, it will make them more likely.

[Stogi]

LOL at terrorists.

[broodwars]

As much as I'd like more functionality, Sony really shouldn't let this incident change their mind about Other OS. You don't negotiate with terrorists. If they set the precedent that they'll give in in a situation like this, not only will it not prevent future attacks, it will make them more likely.

I agree, though I would more compare them to stereotypical Chicago gangsters running a "protection" racket ("Give us our Other OS and the ability to hack whatever we want, or we'll break your legs. Capish?!").  Or maybe that's all the L.A. Noire I've been playing lately.      If Sony caves in to hackers and gives them what they want, it sets a bad precedence in the industry: that hackers can hold video game companies hostage anytime they wish.  If I'm Nintendo or Microsoft, I have to be really fearful of Sony giving in to these guys for fear of them coming after my company next (for example, going after Nintendo for region-locking the 3DS).  Companies have to protect their intellectual property and show that they control their platforms.  Sony could have handled their dealings with the hackers better, but I don't see how they can back out now without severe repercussions in the future.

[Stogi]

Hackers aren't some group that work together to hold companies hostage. That's not how they work. They rarely even work together. It's just that the internet makes it seem like they do. And don't even point out Anonymous. I think Morari summed them up quite clearly.

They are not an entity. They are a bunch of different people from all around the world with different goals and different ambitions. In this instance, Sony became a lightning rod for some of them because of their blatant disregard to consumers. That's it.

When GeoHot cracked it, they rejoiced and everything went back to normal. They worried about his trial, but it was an expected outcome. These are the same people that filed the lawsuit against Sony that is still in court.

Now other hackers think its funny so their goal (which was never to get back Linux) is to **** with Sony. Simple as that. None of this was planned. This isn't an intelligent system of people. It's just people.

[NWR_insanolord]

There had to be at least some level of coordination to take down PSN. Also, anyone who would be willing to attack a major network for fairly trivial reasons is a terrorist in my book.

[Stogi]

Maybe...

But Maybe not...

What if they were simply trying to show the world how easily it was to exploit the system? And as a result of their actions, we are getting a much more secure network?

That could be seen as a trivial reason, but in a perfect world, people would be applauding them.

[Chozo Ghost]

As much as I'd like more functionality, Sony really shouldn't let this incident change their mind about Other OS. You don't negotiate with terrorists. If they set the precedent that they'll give in in a situation like this, not only will it not prevent future attacks, it will make them more likely.

I don't have much hope of Sony restoring Other OS because of the PSN hacking, but you have to admit that even if PSN were never hacked the odds of them restoring Other OS were still pretty much nil. So that presents a no-win scenario where the Linux enthusiasts weren't going to win no matter what. Sony may not be willing to negotiate with "terrorists", but they weren't going to negotiate anyway. If nothing else, at least the "terrorist" attack on PSN brought that back into the spotlight and made it clear that people are still unhappy about it being taken away.

[UncleBob]

No one even has any idea if it was a "They".

For all we know, it was one pimply faced teen in his mom's basement who was mad because SONY hasn't released Final Fantasy 7 HD yet.

[Ceric]

Hackers aren't some group that work together to hold companies hostage. That's not how they work. They rarely even work together. It's just that the internet makes it seem like they do. And don't even point out Anonymous. I think Morari summed them up quite clearly.

They are not an entity. They are a bunch of different people from all around the world with different goals and different ambitions. In this instance, Sony became a lightning rod for some of them because of their blatant disregard to consumers. That's it.

When GeoHot cracked it, they rejoiced and everything went back to normal. They worried about his trial, but it was an expected outcome. These are the same people that filed the lawsuit against Sony that is still in court.

Now other hackers think its funny so their goal (which was never to get back Linux) is to **** with Sony. Simple as that. None of this was planned. This isn't an intelligent system of people. It's just people.

Which makes it more important to stand strong against them because they are not an organized group just a bunch of people who are having the same idea at the same time.  Eventually they will lose interest as the Risk to Reward ratio  gets lower and go away like  bullies.

No one even has any idea if it was a "They".

For all we know, it was one pimply faced teen in his mom's basement who was mad because SONY hasn't released Final Fantasy 7 HD yet.

I'm pretty sure I've heard you say that before.

[UncleBob]

Not quite that, but a similar notion.

I'm all for holding the responsible party/parties responsible, but I don't believe this should become a vigilante witch hunt against all hackers.

[broodwars]

I'm all for holding the responsible party/parties responsible, but I don't believe this should become a vigilante witch hunt against all hackers.

If this escalates any further, though, that's exactly what will happen and you know what?  The hackers will have brought it upon themselves, and I'll have even less pity for them then than I do already.  And given that everyone's now looking at hackers every time something on these systems goes wrong (like how the Xbox Live Marketplace is down today for allegedly "maintenance issues", just like the PSN was down for "maintenance issues"), I don't think that day is too far off.  If this is going to stop, the hackers are going to have to police themselves because realistically they are probably the only ones who can.

[Stogi]

I think you should thank the hackers or hacker, Broodwars. Who knows what their motivation was, but they showed you that the company you trusted took that responsibility lightly. Sure you had to reissue a credit card and went without the service for a month, but it made you skeptical, which you should always be. Many people in this day n' age are too complacent with their information. This was a slap for them and for Sony back to reality.

Furthermore, the lessons learned the hard way allow people who watched to learn it the easy way.

[Ceric]

I think you should thank the hackers or hacker, Broodwars. Who knows what their motivation was, but they showed you that the company you trusted took that responsibility lightly. Sure you had to reissue a credit card and went without the service for a month, but it made you skeptical, which you should always be. Many people in this day in age are too complacent with their information. This was a slap for them and for Sony back to reality.

Furthermore, the lessons learned the hard way allow people who watched to learn it the easy way.

Though I will argue Information is suppose to be used.  When its no longer useful its no longer valuable.

[Morari]

Many people in this day n' age are too complacent with their information.

But they loves their Facebook!

[BranDonk Kong]

Because by installing Linux you can get stuff to do things it wasn't officially supposed to do. With Linux you can install and run a much better web browser on your ps3 than the one provided by Sony, and you can do spreadsheets and all the other things you normally can't do on a PS3 but can do on a computer. So that's the reason. Plus the PS3 is supposed to be some "super computer" (according to Sony anyway) which you can get for an affordable price.

As for installing Linux on wrist watches, coffee machines and microwaves, I guess people just do that for the challenge of it. In the case of the PS3 there are some practical uses for it, though.

Technically by installing Linux on your PS3, you can get it to do stuff that it WAS (and is) supposed to do.

[UncleBob]

The hackers will have brought it upon themselves, and I'll have even less pity for them then than I do already.

So, one guy might have hacked PSN, yet all hackers brought it upon themselves?
I like your way of thinking.

Let's start rounding up large groups of people based on the crimes of a few people within that group.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Just another classic case of the few messing it up for the whole.

[broodwars]

The hackers will have brought it upon themselves, and I'll have even less pity for them then than I do already.

So, one guy might have hacked PSN, yet all hackers brought it upon themselves?
I like your way of thinking.

Let's start rounding up large groups of people based on the crimes of a few people within that group.

This is an entire community of people who think they are above the laws that society has set down for everyone to follow, basically doing whatever they want because they know there's such a small chance that they'll ever face punishment.  Following the letter of the laws on the books, many of these folks (and I have no issues with the homebrew community, so they're fine) should have been dealt with a long time ago if we were serious about enforcing them.  Given that we can't even manage to deal with theatrical punks like Anonymous, how can we possibly hope to deal with the real threats like those who hacked PSN or perform far worse forms of cyber crime?

[MegaByte]

Hackers aren't necessarily a "community."

[Chozo Ghost]

[UncleBob]

Hackers aren't necessarily a "community."

+1

[broodwars]

The Escapist's Extra Credits show has put out a pretty good episode on the PSN hack and what it means going forward.

[oohhboy]

I have to pretty much disagree with the first half of that episode. Yes banks get robbed, but when was the last time a bank vault was cleaned out without resulting in the criminal getting arrested? Outside of movies and ages pass like the great train robberies and what not, never. Sure robbers these days get whatever is in the till, but modern, properly secured banks have made it so costly to rob, that's all they get. They then have a set of automatic protocols to follow to help ensure no one gets hurt, robbers included. This is also the basis of how internet security works. To make it too hard or long or expensive to acquire. So yeah, given the facts and the continued lapses worldwide on Sony's failure to even consider basic security ramifications, you have to blame the Sony as much as the hacker(s).

The second half pretty much sums up how much of a cock up Sony has made so far during the recovery. I have no doubt this will become a case study into how NOT to do things.