Topic: Nintendo 3DS Discussion

[BlackNMild2k1]

and the GBA too; TJ already destroyed his own argument in the blog thread.

[TJ Spyke]

I'm talking about the actual main systems, not revisions. I didn't say every system either, I said the last 2 systems have launched in North America first. So my argument is still valid.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Nintendo Extends S3 Texture Compression License
to be used in the 3DS?

Nintendo and S3 Graphics have extended a licensing agreement that will see the console manufacturer make further use of S3's S3TC texture compression algorithms, continuing a decade-long parternship.

The two companies began their texture compression relationship in the late 1990s, when S3 announced it had licensed S3TC to Nintendo for its upcoming then-codenamed Dolphin console, which was eventually marketed as the Nintendo GameCube. The technology has been employed by Nintendo ever since.

Nintendo may be extending its license to apply the tech to its upcoming 3DS portable console, a more powerful Nintendo DS successor that will incorporate stereoscopic 3D graphics.

"This agreement furthers our dedication to providing our game developers with leading compression technology to enable them to deliver the best possible gaming experience," said Nintendo Integrated Research and Development Division GM Genyo Takeda in a statement. "We look forward to continuing our licensing arrangement with S3 Graphics."

S3 says its texture compression tools allow for up to six-fold compression without affecting visual fidelity.

Added S3 Graphics GM Dr. Ken Weng, "The license agreement reaffirms S3 Graphics' S3TC texture compression technology as the industry standard for both PC and game console graphics."

More fuel for the shrunken GC hardware in the next DS? or just securing rights to keep making Wiis (which has a GC in it)?
Only time will tell.

[MegaByte]

Maybe, maybe not.  Nintendo reuses a lot of their tools across platforms, so it makes sense to keep the 3DS compatible with other Nintendo formats, and compression like this is probably even more useful on a portable than on a home console.

[BlackNMild2k1]

To my understanding DS already uses compression, just not S3 texture compression.

[Chozo Ghost]

I don't want coming out of the screen...that is lame.  I like the depth into the screen.  That was most of Avatar's tricks and it worked well.

If the image came out of the screen, wouldn't it potentially block buttons from view and hinder functionality?

[Spak-Spang]

Chozo, no it wouldn't...because 3D is just tricking your eyes, into seeing 3 dimensional objects in space....when an actual 3D object with real dimensions gets in the way of the 3D it usually disrupts the effect of the 3D coming at you.  But in the case of a 3DS the screen is so small it wouldn't actually be big enough to block buttons...unless you are talking about virtual buttons on the touch screen.

[Chozo Ghost]

Could it interfere with the touchscreen, though? Let's say you want to touch something on the screen but something else gets projected over it. Would that cause some issues?

[BlackNMild2k1]

no. you've got your understanding of 3D displayed a little messed up.

The 3D should give the illusion of depth and the illusion of popping off the screen, but only within the confines of the edges of the screen. There is no actual projection off of the screen, this is not Star Wars technology.

What I mean by illusions is that an image can appear to be floating just in front of the screen, but only if you are looking at it from the right angle. The same with depth.
You cannot move around the DS unit and view an object from different angles. It's just a way to trick the brain into thinking that an image on a flat 2D surface has actual 3 dimensional depth by moving into or out of the screen.

I hope that helps.

[BlackNMild2k1]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/05/11/iwata_qa_summary/

"If you try to make something that's not in a 3D world into 3D, you'll probably have some cost. However, I don't really feel that there's any substance to that. Naturally, you won't make a game interesting by just making the visuals 3D. It's when you offer an interactive experience in the 3D visuals as part of a set with something that is interesting that you first have value as entertainment. Regarding this, there's still no foundation, and it's an area that requires trial and error. It is that trial and error alone that could see an increase in development cost. However, the trial and error is there for any development where you try to make new entertainment experiences, and not just 3D."

Iwata said that he wouldn't respond to rumors. However, he added, "When we made the 3DS, we wanted to make it into a platform that would attract a wide variety of things, from high end games to extremely casual games."

Just wanted to highlite both quotes since they both seemed very interesting.

3D is not the only feature being introduced and is just part of the 3DS package that we are soon to be shown. Some of us already knew that, some of us probably still don't believe. But E3 is about 1 month away and the HYPE TRAIN has already left the station.

But my attention is also piqued at the mention of 3DS supporting High-End Games. I hoping that means there is high-end hardware for those high-end games and we are in for a treat this June.

That leaves us just one more quote

Iwata responded that while Nintendo doesn't necessarily feel that the current game machine model will last forever, they also feel that for the time being, the notion of game hardware will not become antiquated and go away. "If you ask why we make game consoles, it's because we believe that 'offering experiences that cannot be done on other devices' is our life line. With that meaning, offering software for a multi purpose multimedia device is, for us, an area of work that we have least interest in." And driving the point across further, he said, "If we were to stop and do nothing, the current game system framework would probably become antiquated, but because we continue to offer new things, we don't feel at all that this will happen. We've not once thought things like 'we'll be behind the times, so we should enter social games.'"

I know that Nintendo has added some multimedia capabilities to the DSi, but could they be taking it a step further with the 3DS since it will be more capable hardware? Nintendo doesn't want to be "antiquated" and something like Netflix Steaming and SDcard movie playback would be a HUGE Bonus selling point for just about anyone looking for a portable gaming device that can do more than just gaming.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

EXTREMELY CASUAL

THAT'S WHAT WILLIS WAS TALKIN' 'BOUT

[Ian Sane]

Nintendo doesn't want to be "antiquated" and something like Netflix Steaming and SDcard movie playback would be a HUGE Bonus selling point for just about anyone looking for a portable gaming device that can do more than just gaming.

I think Nintendo has a different definition of "antiquated".  If you consider things like Netflix Steaming and SDcard movie playback as something that would keep a system from being antiquated then the Wii was antiquated before it was even released.  What Nintendo means is that if they don't do different stuff then the videogame industry as a whole will become stale.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I realize that, but Netflix streaming and SD card movie playback are basically free additions since the hardware will already be capable of it.

The 3DS will have wifi and if it uses a Tegra level chip, it will have the processing and multimedia capabilities to playback/stream movies.

I don't know if you missed the article where Iwata calls Apple their biggest threat (in reference to the iPhone/iPodTouch/iPad), but that comment alone makes it seem that they are not trying to make the DS brand into an iPhone, but they could allow certain things that the hardware is capable of since people are more likely to carry around a device that can do more than one thing.

the 3DS
will play games (it's primary function)
will have cameras (at least 2 cameras - I'm hoping for 4 though<3D pictures>)
will have Wifi (full internet capability with <flash support?>)
will have an SD card slot (for storage of pics, game saves, audio, etc etc.)
will have a mic (recording sounds and voice commands)
will have a touch screen (hopefully multi-touch and on both screens)
will have 2 screen (supposedly with no gap, which means bigscreen in bookmode)

To have all that(wifi, multimedia, possible bigscreen in book mode) and not think about streaming Netflix from the start (think 3D movies on Netflix Streaming!!!) would be stupid. That would be a huge selling point and trump all of Sony's efforts without even breaking a sweat. It would be the 1st fully capable Netflix3D device which means they would get free advertising to the millions upon millions of current and future Netflix subscribers. Something that would cost your 1000's $$$ to do with a PS3 or set-top box since you need a 3D TV and expensive glasses.
for a little more than the cost of the glasses alone, you could have your own 3DS that works out of the box.


to have all that (SD card slot, multimedia, possible bigscreen in book mode) and not allow multi-format media playback would be stupid. We're talking mp3, mpeg, avi, aac, mp4, or whatever other media formats are out there, otherwise you would just be crippling your own hardware for no reason. Allow it through an app download where the buyer pays any licensing fees for a specific format, and there you go.  take movies like the digital download copy of their DVD/BRD movies and play them on the 3DS.


to have all that (cameras, mic, multimedia, touch screen, sd card) and not allow me to film movies(in 3D?) & take pictures (in 3D) using my 3DS, edit my movies/pics on my 3DS   and save them to an SD card, upload them online where other people can   check them out and use their 3DS to also view them would be an incredibly wasted opportunity to put 3D in everyone's hands including the most casual of casuals.


For Nintendo to have the capability to do all of that out of the box but not plan for the 3DS to be that functional(sufficient RAM & processing power) would make the device antiquated. We all love our portable game machine, but if you want me to remember to carry it everywhere I go and for it to become a piece of everyone's daily life in someway so that you eventually pick it up to play games every once in a while, then you need to give it more purpose. a 3D picture taking, 3D video filming, 3D media editing, 3D movie playing/streaming, wifi enabled internet surfing portable game playing device sounds like something I could use everyday even if I don't always have time to play games.

[Stogi]

this hype train is getting derailed into crazy town

[BlackNMild2k1]

You were never on board in the first place.

And you forget that the GBA played movies
The DSi takes and stores pictures (not sure about movies, but it is possible)

all the tech is there, Nintendo just has to let it od what it's capable of. I'm not talking about them building the 3DS around it's multimedia capabilities, but to keep these extra capabilities in mind before they start scaling back on RAM to save a few pennies per unit. It might not even be things you see right out of the gate, but value that can be added later and resources that can be utilized by 3rd parties.

If Nintendo is gonna consider Apple their main threat going into the next generation of handhelds, then I would assume they are looking at what Apple has to offer and making sure that anything they put out from this point on, that has the ability to do than they currently need, won't immediately be scaled back and looked at as excessive and unnecessary cost.

If the 3DS has all the hardware tech built in from the start, why gimp the system and not allow it to add value through software updates giving extra usage to all the hardware that is already present.

In my mind that would be the equivalent of Michael Jordan being a member of the Bulls as a team mascot during his playing days instead of on the court where he could actually put all his talent to use. Or Tiger Woods as having been nothing more than a Professional Caddy for some 2 bit wanna be Golf Pro. It's an incredible waste of resources that are already present within system.

[Kytim89]

I realize that, but Netflix streaming and SD card movie playback are basically free additions since the hardware will already be capable of it.

The 3DS will have wifi and if it uses a Tegra level chip, it will have the processing and multimedia capabilities to playback/stream movies.

I don't know if you missed the article where Iwata calls Apple their biggest threat (in reference to the iPhone/iPodTouch/iPad), but that comment alone makes it seem that they are not trying to make the DS brand into an iPhone, but they could allow certain things that the hardware is capable of since people are more likely to carry around a device that can do more than one thing.

the 3DS
will play games (it's primary function)
will have cameras (at least 2 cameras - I'm hoping for 4 though<3D pictures>)
will have Wifi (full internet capability with <flash support?>)
will have an SD card slot (for storage of pics, game saves, audio, etc etc.)
will have a mic (recording sounds and voice commands)
will have a touch screen (hopefully multi-touch and on both screens)
will have 2 screen (supposedly with no gap, which means bigscreen in bookmode)

To have all that(wifi, multimedia, possible bigscreen in book mode) and not think about streaming Netflix from the start (think 3D movies on Netflix Streaming!!!) would be stupid. That would be a huge selling point and trump all of Sony's efforts without even breaking a sweat. It would be the 1st fully capable Netflix3D device which means they would get free advertising to the millions upon millions of current and future Netflix subscribers. Something that would cost your 1000's $$$ to do with a PS3 or set-top box since you need a 3D TV and expensive glasses.
for a little more than the cost of the glasses alone, you could have your own 3DS that works out of the box.


to have all that (SD card slot, multimedia, possible bigscreen in book mode) and not allow multi-format media playback would be stupid. We're talking mp3, mpeg, avi, aac, mp4, or whatever other media formats are out there, otherwise you would just be crippling your own hardware for no reason. Allow it through an app download where the buyer pays any licensing fees for a specific format, and there you go.  take movies like the digital download copy of their DVD/BRD movies and play them on the 3DS.


to have all that (cameras, mic, multimedia, touch screen, sd card) and not allow me to film movies(in 3D?) & take pictures (in 3D) using my 3DS, edit my movies/pics on my 3DS   and save them to an SD card, upload them online where other people can   check them out and use their 3DS to also view them would be an incredibly wasted opportunity to put 3D in everyone's hands including the most casual of casuals.


For Nintendo to have the capability to do all of that out of the box but not plan for the 3DS to be that functional(sufficient RAM & processing power) would make the device antiquated. We all love our portable game machine, but if you want me to remember to carry it everywhere I go and for it to become a piece of everyone's daily life in someway so that you eventually pick it up to play games every once in a while, then you need to give it more purpose. a 3D picture taking, 3D video filming, 3D media editing, 3D movie playing/streaming, wifi enabled internet surfing portable game playing device sounds like something I could use everyday even if I don't always have time to play games.

If your selling, I am buying. But you forgot to throw in a virtual handheld service and a more robust DSware servive, which is something that I want from the 3DS. Maybe a radio player along with the music player. I would like the ability to save pictures on the main screen of the device like a screen saver, or desktop image.
 
I hope that the graphics are atleast on par with that of the PSP. Hell, the 3DS could be the device that the PSP was not.

[Shorty McNostril]

As much as I hope I am wrong, I have a feeling you will be extremely disappointed.  This is Nintendo we are talking about here remember?

[Louieturkey]

As much as I hope I am wrong, I have a feeling you will be extremely disappointed.  This is Nintendo we are talking about here remember?

His plan is not to have it all in there but to hope it is all in there.  He realistically does not believe it will all be included in the 3DS.  But that was never the purpose of this hype train.  This hype train was set out to throw everything and the kitchen sink of rumors all into one spot to be able to go back to them when the actual system is announced.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I can only Hope Nintendo would let all the tech be used to it's fullest capability, but I don't actually expect them to allow everything possible just because it's possible.

But I am working with very little here, and I hope that most of my HYPE turns out to be true, but if they even come withing the ballpark of realizing some of the above, then I will be happy as it means that Nintendo has already done way more than any of you would have expected.

But seriously, I will be disappointed if there is no Netflix Streaming of the yet to be announced 3D movies on the yet to be announced Netflix 3D service for the yet to be revealed Nintendo 3DS. VERY DISAPPOINTED in Netflix and Nintendo.

[TJ Spyke]

I would be shocked if it does have Netflix streaming considering that no other mobile device (even iPhone/iPod Touch) has it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I would be shocked if it does have Netflix streaming considering that no other mobile device (even iPhone/iPod Touch) has it.

Yet extremely happy!!
I could netflix almost anywhere I go that has a wifi connection (or 3G connection if you believe some rumors).

[NWR_insanolord]

I would be shocked if it does have Netflix streaming considering that no other mobile device (even iPhone/iPod Touch) has it.

Netflix Streaming is coming to the iPhone/Touch soon; the Netflix CEO said so when they released the iPad app.

The thing is, BnM, that the system will be capable of doing these things, so even if they're not initially there, Nintendo (or the homebrew community) will be able to add them later.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I would be shocked if it does have Netflix streaming considering that no other mobile device (even iPhone/iPod Touch) has it.

Netflix Streaming is coming to the iPhone/Touch soon; the Netflix CEO said so when they released the iPad app.

The thing is, BnM, that the system will be capable of doing these things, so even if they're not initially there, Nintendo (or the homebrew community) will be able to add them later.

I know, but what frustrates me is that Nintendo won't make it official so that it can tie into the natural way the system works. Especially if they use some sort of background OS this time around. How sweet would Wii games be if they could be programmed with HDD support and SDHC support from the beginning? if I could pay the $0.50 for a DVD licensed app and use my Wii as an extra DVD player? use the ubisoft camera for a video chat/wiispeak app or something along those lines. Maybe even games could take advantage of those features.

The hardware is capable so why is Nintendo so reluctant?

My hope is that with them taking the threat of Apple so seriously, they may not be quite so reluctant next time around.

I appreciate what the Homebrew community has been able to do, but I want it to be supported official and usable by everyone, including the licensed developers.

[NWR_insanolord]

If Nintendo does have a universal OS, like on the 360, they could patch support for things like that in seamlessly later on, if they felt like it, and I think such an OS would be likely.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well with rumors flying around about the Ningoogle OS, I hope so.
It would only make sense. Nintendo got caught with their pants down using the WTF system they had for the Wii where something as simple as a patch for the SD card didn't allow older games access to it.

It probably a reason why they never bothered to upgrade the amount of internal mem, since the games and channels would only read a certain amount because of the ridiculously short-sightedness of Nintendos programming. A background OS could have solved almost all of the Wii's problems this gen (except for possibly resolution output), so I really hope that some sort of UOS is used in not only the 3DS but the Wii2H3D.