Author Topic: Radio Free Nintendo: Episode 139 (Read 12339 times)

yoshi1001 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:35:48 PM »

Keep in mind that with emulation, you generally have to deduct one generation when comparing specs (for example, when the original PowerPC Macs came out in the mid-90's, they actually ran emulated 68k code slower than native 68k Macs for a while).

One thing that did occur to me, though is that if they could emulate GB/GBC on the DS, why wasn't that incorporated into the original DS? Is the DSi really that much more powerful that it becomes feasible?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #26 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:47:53 PM »

I think it was more of a size issue. The DS would have been larger in size if they made it so you could play Game Boy and Game Boy Color games.

Stratos · « **Reply #27 on:** April 02, 2009, 09:21:37 PM »

@Mop it up
I think the resolution issue was a problem because if I remember correctly that was a big hurdle for porting the original Zelda to Gameboy. Each room in the game was a full screen size so it couldn't easily be ported.

@Yoshi1k1
I think they just hadn't thought of the idea at the time the DS was being developed. WiiWare was a bit of a pioneering effort for Nintendo. I would imagine that if they knew how big it would have been it would have been included. The only thing baring the original DS from working with a D/L service is the lack of internal flash memory like the Wii has.

@TJ Spike
Are you referring to the lack of a GBA slot?

yoshi1001 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 02, 2009, 10:29:24 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on April 02, 2009, 08:47:53 PM

I think it was more of a size issue. The DS would have been larger in size if they made it so you could play Game Boy and Game Boy Color games.

How so? Wouldn't they just stick out the bottom, like GBA games on the DS Lite?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #29 on:** April 02, 2009, 10:44:59 PM »

GB/GBC cartridges were about 2.5x as big as GBA cartridges, which was probably unacceptable for Nintendo as far as how much they stuck out. I think there was also the issue of the extra internal parts that would be needed.

Mop it up · « **Reply #30 on:** April 02, 2009, 10:47:51 PM »

The Game Boy Advance also contained the Game Boy Color's CPU. The DS does not have the Game Boy Color's CPU, only the Game Boy Advance CPU (the ARM7). If they wanted the DS to be able to play GB/C games, then it would need the GBC CPU which would have given it three CPUs. Don't you think that would have been a bit ridiculous?

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #31 on:** April 02, 2009, 11:18:21 PM »

Quote from: Mop_it_up on April 02, 2009, 10:47:51 PM

The Game Boy Advance also contained the Game Boy Color's CPU. The DS does not have the Game Boy Color's CPU, only the Game Boy Advance CPU (the ARM7). If they wanted the DS to be able to play GB/C games, then it would need the GBC CPU which would have given it three CPUs. Don't you think that would have been a bit ridiculous?

He's suggesting that GB/C compatibility could be included via emulation, which would definitely work because even the GBA could emulate the GBC.

Mop it up · « **Reply #32 on:** April 02, 2009, 11:28:41 PM »

I didn't think the GBA could emulate the GBC, that's why it has the GBC CPU.

I really shouldn't get into this technical stuff though because there are too many things I don't really know.

Stratos · « **Reply #33 on:** April 03, 2009, 12:39:38 AM »

There are too many factors. Look at the XBox, there is a list of XBox 1 games that are made compatible on the 360 through patches. Two different systems have different architectures and would have to be tested and altered to function properly. It would have been very difficult make them all work right like that. Emulation is not a walk in the park.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #34 on:** April 03, 2009, 02:31:03 AM »

oh waa, im a multibillion dollar company, it's hard to make stuff work, waaa.

Jonnyboy117 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 03, 2009, 12:57:02 PM »

None of the previous handheld systems' backwards-compatibility was based on emulation. It was more like PS1 on PS2 or PS2 on the early PS3s... or GameCube on Wii. They share hardware, so you can trick the old games into thinking they are running on the original hardware. Emulation is all software-based.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #36 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:07:28 PM »

I was talking about the homebrew GBC emulators that exist for the GBA.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #37 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:07:48 PM »

Quote from: Jonnyboy117 on April 03, 2009, 12:57:02 PM

None of the previous handheld systems' backwards-compatibility was based on emulation. It was more like PS1 on PS2 or PS2 on the early PS3s... or GameCube on Wii. They share hardware, so you can trick the old games into thinking they are running on the original hardware. Emulation is all software-based.

What Jonny said, and I am not even that familiar with the stuff!

BTW does anyone know yet if the DSi has the GBA hardware still in tact? Yeah we don't have a slot anymore but it doesn't mean they still removed the internal hardware.

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #38 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:12:42 PM »

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix on April 03, 2009, 01:07:48 PM

Quote from: Jonnyboy117 on April 03, 2009, 12:57:02 PM
None of the previous handheld systems' backwards-compatibility was based on emulation. It was more like PS1 on PS2 or PS2 on the early PS3s... or GameCube on Wii. They share hardware, so you can trick the old games into thinking they are running on the original hardware. Emulation is all software-based.

What Jonny said, and I am not even that familiar with the stuff!

BTW does anyone know yet if the DSi has the GBA hardware still in tact? Yeah we don't have a slot anymore but it doesn't mean they still removed the internal hardware.

The ARM7 chip that allowed for GBA backward compatibility isn't like the GBC chip in the GBA, it's one of the two processors that are used in DS games, so it's definitely still in there.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #39 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:53:46 PM »

Quote from: insanolord on April 03, 2009, 01:12:42 PM

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix on April 03, 2009, 01:07:48 PM
Quote from: Jonnyboy117 on April 03, 2009, 12:57:02 PM
None of the previous handheld systems' backwards-compatibility was based on emulation. It was more like PS1 on PS2 or PS2 on the early PS3s... or GameCube on Wii. They share hardware, so you can trick the old games into thinking they are running on the original hardware. Emulation is all software-based.

What Jonny said, and I am not even that familiar with the stuff!

BTW does anyone know yet if the DSi has the GBA hardware still in tact? Yeah we don't have a slot anymore but it doesn't mean they still removed the internal hardware.

The ARM7 chip that allowed for GBA backward compatibility isn't like the GBC chip in the GBA, it's one of the two processors that are used in DS games, so it's definitely still in there.

Interesting.

Mop it up · « **Reply #40 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:24:32 PM »

Quote from: insanolord on April 03, 2009, 01:12:42 PM

The ARM7 chip that allowed for GBA backward compatibility isn't like the GBC chip in the GBA, it's one of the two processors that are used in DS games, so it's definitely still in there.

According to Wikipedia the DSi contains just one CPU, a 133 MHz ARM processor. Unless I'm missing something then it would appear that the ARM7 processor has been removed from the DSi.

yoshi1001 · « **Reply #41 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:25:13 PM »

Allow me to clarify. What I was asking is if the DSi core processor can emulate GB/GBC (which is two generations below the DS hardware, presumably), why didn't they include that feature in the original DS (which I believe has the same core processor)?

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #42 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:53:17 PM »

Quote from: Mop_it_up on April 03, 2009, 06:24:32 PM

Quote from: insanolord on April 03, 2009, 01:12:42 PM
The ARM7 chip that allowed for GBA backward compatibility isn't like the GBC chip in the GBA, it's one of the two processors that are used in DS games, so it's definitely still in there.
According to Wikipedia the DSi contains just one CPU, a 133 MHz ARM processor. Unless I'm missing something then it would appear that the ARM7 processor has been removed from the DSi.

That's not possible, removing the ARM7 would make the DSi incompatible with DS games in addition to taking away GBA compatibility, DS games use both the ARM7 and the ARM9.

Mop it up · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2009, 10:42:28 PM »

Quote from: yoshi1001 on April 03, 2009, 07:25:13 PM

What I was asking is if the DSi core processor can emulate GB/GBC why didn't they include that feature in the original DS (which I believe has the same core processor)?

My guess would be that it was more trouble than it was worth. Since they no longer sold GB/C games, how would it benefit them?

Quote from: insanolord on April 03, 2009, 07:53:17 PM

That's not possible, removing the ARM7 would make the DSi incompatible with DS games in addition to taking away GBA compatibility

What makes you so sure of this? The source on Wikipedia links to an article where somebody opened up the DSi and found only one processor.

Jonnyboy117 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:07:24 PM »

They probably improved the manufacturing process to put both processors on the same chip.

NovaQ · « **Reply #45 on:** April 22, 2009, 06:17:08 PM »

I have nothing to add to this technical hoo-ha. Also, I'm late to this podcast party - but at least now I'm all caught up. Anyway...

Disappointments in gaming - what a perfect question for an Internet gaming fan site! I'm surprised that hasn't been brought up sooner.

Twilight Princess disappointed me for sure, but of course it had massive, long-term hype (and the disappointed have already made themselves well heard/read by now). In addition to James' Temple of Time "wow moment," I thought the final real dungeon, the one in the sky, was wicked.

Wind Waker's clear omissions of dungeons were pretty disappointing, too. The third pearl and the fire and ice arrows all "should have" had dungeons. It makes you wonder how much better the game could've been had it had more development time.

Also, I got Yoshi's Story when it first came out for my birthday. That was a sad birthday.

P.S. Did Jon say "It's pretty Nietzche" instead of "It's pretty niche"? I think it was at the part about FF on VC...

Stratos · « **Reply #46 on:** April 22, 2009, 06:24:31 PM »

Quote from: NovaQ on April 22, 2009, 06:17:08 PM

Also, I got Yoshi's Story when it first came out for my birthday. That was a sad birthday.

Pretty ironic considering the mission in the game is to keep the Yoshi's happy and reclaim the Super Happy Tree!

I also need to clarify something earlier regarding DSi/GBA backweards compatibility. I mentioned that size was an issue and some people interpreted that to mean cartridge size. I meant screen resolution, not that cartridges would stick out of the machine. You have to rework the games output to fit in a different resolution. The original Zelda especially was designed to have one room fill the entire screen. It had to be reworked to fit one room on the GBA screen properly.

Cartridge size is not a big issue I would think considering original GB carts stuck far out on a GBA SP.

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Author Topic: Radio Free Nintendo: Episode 139 (Read 12339 times)