Author Topic: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003  (Read 11217 times)

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« on: March 08, 2009, 01:42:40 PM »
This Talkback thread is for discussing the year 2003 as presented in the PGC/NWR 10th Anniversary special.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=17959
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 07:58:27 PM by Lindy »
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 12:19:39 AM »
One, two, three, FORE!

I'd like to point out that after two years, the GameCube was being sold for half its original price. Granted, you had to buy at least one game and a memory card with a GameCube, but Wii is still selling strong at $250 after two years. Just how much money is Nintendo making on each sale?!
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 12:28:12 AM »
Not only is the Wii still selling strong, but it's still selling out frequently (at least here in the US).

2003 was another great year for GameCube (although not as good as 2002 which had Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, Animal Crossing, etc.). I know many didn't like the Triforce hunt (I didn't mind it), but you can't deny The Wind Waker was a great game. Thankfully all the people whining about the cel-shading were proven wrong by all perfect scores/GOTY's it got and the millions of copies it sold. Still a fun game today.

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 01:03:08 AM »
Don't get me wrong, Wind Waker is a great game, but it was the first and only Zelda title in which as I played through it I couldn't help but think "This could be better." It's mostly the sailing parts I didn't appreciate (which unfortunately are a pretty large part of the game); despite how large the world was in size, the vast emptiness of the ocean made it seem much less expansive than the two N64 Zelda games. It's still the best game of 2003 however, no argument there.

Mario and Luigi is pure awesome sauce, I love how expressive that game is despite being on "limited" hardware. Some may say the game was too easy, but, well, that's fine by me!

One, two, three, FORE!
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Offline Stratos

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 01:05:56 AM »
I liked the sailing parts. I would deliberately ignore the main plot objectives and just sail around for hours. I liked discovering the different islands out of order.

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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 01:14:17 AM »
To me, Mario Kart Double Dash is a criminally underrated GC title. Sure, the MK games that came before and after it were much better, but you have to give credit to Nintendo for at least trying to experiment with the franchise. I personally liked the two team concept, the personalized karts and exclusive items. It truly made races feel different each time you played.

I know that people love Wind Waker, so I'll try to be respectful. While I liked Wind Waker it just didn't captivate me that much. I thought the story was really good, especially with all the mythos and allusions to the fact that this Hyrule is the Hyrule Link left behind at the end of OoT. But the gameplay... I don't know. The game felt rushed, with missing segments and the triforce hunt felt filler. Hell, even the fight with Ganondorf didn't feel as epic (I was honestly expecting more after Link shoved the Master Sword into his head).

Soul Calibur 2 was awesome, especially with Link as the exclusive GC character. It didn't evolve radically from SC 1 but it was still a great fighter.

Wario World I actually didn't play till 2006 and it was a decent platformer beat em up. The graphics were gorgeous and the music very suiting for Wario.

Speaking of Wario, 2003 was the year in which "Wario Ware" came out for the GBA. I personally don't care if people hate this series. When it first came out I fell head over heels in LOVE with the concept, characters and even ideas. It was truly Nintendo's first blue ocean game since everyone I showed the game to reacted right away and wanted to play (my sister absolutely loves Wario Ware Touched and Smooth Moves).

I also missed out on F-Zero GX when it came out, but S_B told me so many things about it that I became briefly obsessed with it. I later heard, however, that it was an incredibly difficult title, so it dropped off my radar and wouldn't play it till 2004 and beyond.

Kirby Air Ride I completely missed. I wanted to play it ever since I saw the concept video back on the N64 days, but the reviews were so mixed that I stopped caring and focused on just Mario Kart.

I was never fan of the original "Mario Golf", so I didn't care for "Mario Golf Toadstool Tour", but I thought the graphics were really nice.

"Mario and Luigi" was a surprisingly delightful and fun romp. The dialogue and Charles Martinet comments were fantastic and added a lot of charm.

What else came out in 2003?
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 01:18:23 AM »
One, two, three, FORE!
Best quote from Mario Golf on N64! However, I don't think that line exists in Mario Golf Toudstool Tour since you can no longer taunt after the ball is hit...
You are correct. I still thought I'd use it, as it is the fourth year of PN2000/PGC/NWR!
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 01:29:04 AM »
You know what I was thinking? Since many of us have posted memories, comments, thoughts and even mini reviews of games celebrated in this retrospective maybe to cap off the celebration on the 10th year you can select the best posts, the ones that truly captures what it means to be both a Nintendo fan and a NWR/PGC member?

It would be a great way to end this feature and highlight the NWR community and show it on a more positive light (because that's what we need).

What do you think?
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 01:33:21 AM »
Man 2003 was a great year for games. Ubisoft was on fire with Splinter Cell, Prince of Persia, and Beyond Good and Evil. I bought my Gamecube and joined the PGC. It's been downhill ever since.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 02:29:32 AM »
You know what I was thinking? Since many of us have posted memories, comments, thoughts and even mini reviews of games celebrated in this retrospective maybe to cap off the celebration on the 10th year you can select the best posts, the ones that truly captures what it means to be both a Nintendo fan and a NWR/PGC member?

It would be a great way to end this feature and highlight the NWR community and show it on a more positive light (because that's what we need).

What do you think?

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Offline Dasmos

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 11:10:01 AM »
Wind Waker is the best Zelda game by far and the most visually impressive game I have ever played. It takes GOTY 2003 without a doubt (sorry VJ and F-Zero).
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Offline decoyman

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 11:27:30 AM »
Hey Lindy, since I spend most of my time in the forums, could you put a link to the front page article in the first post from here on out?

I'd appreciate it :D
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Offline Halbred

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 03:16:22 PM »
Wind Waker is really one of the unbelievably great games. I also love Viewtiful Joe, and it has its place, but WW is in my Top 3.
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 05:28:50 PM »
I remember 2003 as having a spectacularly bad Nintendo press conference, mostly focusing on Pac-Man Vs.  Sometimes I get that one confused with the equally bad 2005 event, in which Nintendo brought out the Electroplankton DJ.  The only way I can keep them straight is remembering that Nintendo DS didn't exist in 2003.  Also, 2005 was kinda sorta redeemed by the Twilight Princess reveal at the end (Miyamoto with sword and shield).
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 06:58:36 PM »
A couple more games from 2003 I like:

Mario Golf Toadstool Tour is a solid golf game, despite that the swing system is exactly the same as NES Open Tournament Golf for the, uh, NES. It's kind of disappointing to see such little progress after so long, especially since the putting system isn't very good because it offers so little information. The only real problem I have with this game is that it doesn't make much use of the Mario franchise; characters don't have special abilities, and only two of the six courses have Mario elements, such as springy mushrooms, warp pipes, and even a few baddies. Those last two courses are definitely the best, while the other courses would still feel right at home in a Tiger Woods golf game. This game is largely just golf with Mario characters, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an enjoyable game which anyone can get into.

Mario Kart Double Dash!!... I both love and hate that title. It has two exclamation points in it which is awesome, but the game has broken the trend of including the system's name in the title. We have Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64, Mario Kart Advance, Mario Kart Arcade, Mario Kart DS, and of course Mario Kart Wii. So why isn't it titled Mario Kart Cubed, or something equally nonsensical?

It's refreshing that they actually tried something different with this game, it makes it still worth playing even with a newer version out. Really, the double kart feature doesn't change the game all that much, certainly not enough to deserve the hate it receives from some Mario Kart fans. The character-specific items add some variety and personality to the game, though they aren’t balanced. Bowser gets a huge shell which travels along the track and can plow through several racers, while Yoshi has a homing egg that's basically the same as a red shell. Characters with powerful special items will receive them less often than characters with weaker specials, but still... if a special takes you from 8th to 1st you're only going to need it once. The ability to rob others is something which should have stayed in Mario Kart Wii, though it’s too bad that feature exists only in co-op. Best of all though, is that I don't have to decide whether I want to use Toad or Birdo, because I can use them both!

The graphics in this game aren't up to the standards of the average GameCube game, or even other Mario games for that matter. I don't know why Nintendo neglects the graphics of Mario Kart games but it's a trend with all of them, not just this one. The sad thing here is that the graphics are actually a little better than Mario Kart Wii despite being released four years earlier on a lesser system. The character models are blocky, lack animated fingers, and have that unnatural shiny effect which I'm really starting to hate. When you consider the fact that the one thing which will always be in the center of the screen is the characters you're using, you'd think more attention would have been paid to them. Still, although the characters may not be modeled very well they are at least animated nicely.

My only real problem with the game though is that characters with a similar body frame share the same animations, like Yoshi and Birdo for example. Birdo isn't a pink-coloured clone of Yoshi, he really should have his own animations to make him more unique. It's just so painfully obvious to have Birdo use items by spitting them out of his mouth, especially when his special item is an egg... but no, someone's too lazy to program some animations for him so they use Yoshi's animation set instead. Lame.

I recently purchased Wario World and am currently playing trough it. The game might be simple but it is quite enthralling, and the stages are pretty varied with the small pure platforming segments tucked away under the ground panels. I suppose that structure is a bit like Mario Sunshine, but there’s nothing wrong with going with what works. You can’t really go wrong with a game featuring a greedy fat man out to collect treasure, although it’s kind of strange how he can eat coins to collect them… The biggest complaint I’ve heard about this game is that it is extremely short, so it may leave me wanting more. We’ll see.

Since many of us have posted memories, comments, thoughts and even mini reviews of games celebrated in this retrospective maybe to cap off the celebration on the 10th year you can select the best posts, the ones that truly captures what it means to be both a Nintendo fan and a NWR/PGC member?
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The only reason Pap64 is requesting such a feature is because he is so long-winded and knows that some of his comments are sure to show up there. :P

Here’s a nice comment to add to such a feature:
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 07:09:46 PM »
Mario Kart Double Dash!!... I both love and hate that title. It has two exclamation points in it which is awesome, but the game has broken the trend of including the system's name in the title. We have Super Mario Kart, Mario Kart 64, Mario Kart Advance, Mario Kart Arcade, Mario Kart DS, and of course Mario Kart Wii. So why isn't it titled Mario Kart Cubed, or something equally nonsensical?

Actually, the Game Boy Advance one was only called Mario Kart Advance in Japan. Everywhere else it was Mario Kart: Super Circuit. So I would count that as 2 titles without the system name in the title.
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Offline Halbred

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2009, 07:10:46 PM »
You know, I remember really liking Double Dash. Didn't it have a dinosaur-themed level? If I stumble over it, I'm gonna pick it up.
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Offline MikeHrusecky

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 07:14:55 PM »
Also, 2005 was kinda sorta redeemed by the Twilight Princess reveal at the end (Miyamoto with sword and shield).

I reckon that was 2004, same year as the DS and Reggie debut. That was a good conference, but 2003 and 2005 E3's sucked, for sure.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 07:20:51 PM by MikeHrusecky »

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 08:31:02 PM »
The only reason Pap64 is requesting such a feature is because he is so long-winded and knows that some of his comments are sure to show up there. :P

Its worked in the past :) . Besides, which would you rather have, MY long winded posts or Ian's long winded posts filled with negativity? At least my rambles INSPIRE people to love Nintendo. :p
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 08:46:02 PM »
The only reason Pap64 is requesting such a feature is because he is so long-winded and knows that some of his comments are sure to show up there. :P

Its worked in the past :) . Besides, which would you rather have, MY long winded posts or Ian's long winded posts filled with negativity? At least my rambles INSPIRE people to love Nintendo. :p

I find it funny that that comment by mop was proceeded by a long winded post. The irony. ;)
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Offline Djunknown

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 11:25:59 PM »
Quote
I remember 2003 as having a spectacularly bad Nintendo press conference, mostly focusing on Pac-Man Vs.

Basically, Nintendo was pushing 'Cube-GBA connectivity as the next big thing. MS was gaining ground thanks to Xbox Live and was flaunting it, and Sony was flirting with online games too.

Wind Waker is the first glance of 'easier' (I won't say the 'C' word) gameplay. I still had a blast with it, but was disappointed that the main quest wasn't long enough. I felt the Cave of Ordeals could have been replaced with a dungeon.

I got Soul Calibur 2 and F-Zero the same day. Soul Calibur 2 was the party game of choice along with Melee. F-Zero was just too hard for its own good. But it still the fastest racing game I've played to date. I tried tracking down an F-Zero AX machine at the nearby arcades, only to find out that most of them didn't exist anymore, or were just glorified DDR halls with Capcom Vs Marvel 2 in the corner somewhere. That's when it really hit me that American arcades as I knew it were gone... :'(

Viewtiful Joe was love at first screen. It was stylish, it wasn't afraid to break gamer's spirits (Try it on Ultra V-Rated...), and using the various VFX never got old. Hell it was USA Today's 2003 game of the year!

I remember that many stores broke the street date for Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3. I got mine 3 days earlier, and beat the first world before I got off the bus to go home! Good times...

I skipped out on FFTA, but picked up Sword of Mana. It was a decent colorful remake, with some concepts of the unreleased stateside Seiken Densetsu 3. I wish I had someone else to play with...  :-\

Quote
I'd like to point out that after two years, the GameCube was being sold for half its original price.

2003 could be classified as year of good third party support for the 'Cube, but that was it. The price cut was the writing on the wall: Xbox was catching up in sales, but there was no stopping it. By year's end, it was too late, Nintendo lost the number 2 spot stateside, and there was no looking back.

Quote
MY long winded posts or Ian's long winded posts filled with negativity? At least my rambles INSPIRE people to love Nintendo.

 Funny you should say that, here's something I dug up when reading this.  Ian, if you're reading this, I hope you don't mind... ;)

Quote
Okay so a news item about how Nintendo is making more money than anyone was just posted on the site and analysts are recommending that Nintendo go third party.  Does anyone else think that doesn't make much sense?  If Nintendo is making good money with what they're doing why change it?  Sega went third party because they were in a money pit.  That's not the case with Nintendo.

Plus ignoring the GBA makes this whole "analysis" completely useless because it doesn't represent reality.  If Nintendo only relied on the Gamecube then they would be in trouble but they don't so the situation is completely different.

"GameCube's sales are expected to fall by 4 percent in 2003, while XBox sales will rise by 12 percent."

What is this based on?  What hot selling title is coming to Xbox to make it's sales rise so much?  The problem with these analysts is that they don't know anything about games.  A major title (Final Fantasy VII, Sonic the Hedgehog, Donkey Kong Country) can change console sales considerably.  If sales trends were all that made a difference then surely the N64 would have been top dog because it's sales were huge during it's first year.

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 11:42:16 PM »
Actually, the Game Boy Advance one was only called Mario Kart Advance in Japan. Everywhere else it was Mario Kart: Super Circuit.
I don't know why I always forget about that especially since I own Mario Kart Super Circuit.

Didn't it have a dinosaur-themed level?
It does, I think it is called Dino Jungle... or Dino Park. Oddly it has no association to either Yoshi or Birdo, although there is a Yoshi Circuit that is shaped like Yoshi himself.

Besides, which would you rather have, MY long-winded posts or Ian's long-winded posts filled with negativity? At least my rambles INSPIRE people to love Nintendo. :p
This may sound strange, but negativity towards Wii actually helps me have a more positive attitude towards it; this probably has to do with my tendency to root for the underdog. During the N64 and GameCube era Nintendo were falling behind in market share and were oftentimes ragged on by gamers and media alike, so it felt great to support and defend them, and also spit in the face of popular opinion. Now that Nintendo is the market leader, and that they've made a few decisions I don't agree with, things have changed. However, with many gamers and the media alike hating on Nintendo possibly more than ever, despite its massive sales it still feels like the Wii is this eccentric little system that I am one of the few people to own. Negative comments make me want to like the Wii, which has me rethinking my whole disposition when it comes to gaming.

I find it funny that that comment by Mop_it_up was proceeded by a long-winded post. The irony. ;)
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 11:45:24 PM »
Hah! We share a similar view regarding the Wii.

Too have always rooted for the underdog, mainly because I was an underdog growing up. I love the Wii, but the negativity makes me embrace it even more because I feel as if I understand something that is greatly maligned.
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Offline Monteblanco

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2009, 07:53:46 PM »
Wind Waker is the best Zelda game by far and the most visually impressive game I have ever played. It takes GOTY 2003 without a doubt (sorry VJ and F-Zero).

I agree. And only played it last year, after other Zelda games.

Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2003
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2009, 08:13:26 PM »
By the way guys, 2004 is done, we're just putting the finishing touches on it.  It will be up by Sunday night at the latest.
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