Topic: WATCHMEN

[bustin98]

That was awesome. So much time was put into it, just to be a joke. I hope he works for an animation studio and did this in his spare time.

[GoldenPhoenix]

What parent would take their kid to ANY R rated movie without checking on why the movie was R? That seems silly to me.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Take kids to to see Pulp Fiction, everyone.  Show them the wonders of your suggested "parental guidance."

[mantidor]

haha I seriously thought that saturday morning cartoon was real.

I've never read the comic and I liked it. It had flaws but the movie was completely watchable. The misogyny was off-putting, but it appears that is a staple of comics, because I felt the same with Sin City. Overall the opening credits are pretty much the best opening credits I've ever seen, they actually can work as a standalone piece and make worth watching the movie even if you hate the rest.

Also, there were a lot of kids in the theater.

[nickmitch]

And when they left that theatre, they were men, even the girls.

[ThePerm]

i dont get it. Any time there is a combination of a slutty character, and a mean whore character a work is called misogynistic.

I wrote a script for a short film in German Class, one of the girls in the group got all pissed off at it and called it mysogynistic..i didn't see it at all. When we got someone to play the mean character she was re-interpreted in a good light.

lol
actually here was her e-mail

"
Hey guys,

     I feel like such an irresponsible person.  I'm so sorry for not
participating this week in our group project.  I wasn't in class all week
because I had a lot of personal scheiße to deal with, but everything is
alright now.

Back to the project, these are my ideas:

First off, I read through Patrick's script, and I just have to say ? when
did we decide to write a German soap opera that is completely degrading towards
women?  And how does this story remotely relate to the story of Pinocchio?

Also, I have questions concerning our setting ? I know that we want to write a
modern day fairy-tale, but having the main character work in a graphic design
firm isn't what I consider modern.  I thought the modernity in our fairy tale
would be established from our main character wanting to be a girl.

My ideas:
Pinocchio character = the young boy who wishes you could be a boy
Jiminy Cricket character = Pinocchio?s ?conscience?
Geppetto character = Pinocchio?s father, who wants to raise a  masculine son,
and encourages him to play sports?.etc.
The Blue Fairy character - instead we could do an Absinthe green fairy who in
the end changes Pinocchio into a young girl.

And then to make it interesting and different - when Pinocchio runs away and
embarks on his journey ? he could encounter a tranny, a homosexual?..etc.,
(other people dealing with gender issues) who in turn help him to understand
his identity.

Well, I hope that my ideas are helpful.   I will see you guys in class tomorrow.

Kimberlee"

lol, i'll post the video someday..its 13 minutes long and is high quality, so is too big for youtube, i need to cut it in half and change is codec

[mantidor]

It really has nothing to do with how slutty slik spectre was, but it shocked me the portrayal of women who went through attempted rape as needy weak women who go back their attacker. We also get a very explicit end of Silhouethe and her nurse lover's murder, but reading some background I found out about Captain Metropolis and Hooded Justice, and we don't get anything about their end, it just smelled me as veiled misoginy.

It's not really such obvious stereotypes. The possibility that we humans, boys and girls equally, are attracted to abuse is an incredibly interesting topic worth exploring, but the movie hardly tried such topic. It only tried really hard (and failed miserably in my eyes) to make the comedian character likeable. I'm interested to see if the comic was successful in that regard since my comic-geek friend claims thats the case, but I honestly doubt it. The movie seemed really faithful to the comic about that.

[ThePerm]

its weird though. I've heard cases on Dr. Drew's Love Line where some women want to pretend like they're getting raped..which is crazy, especially for the guy who is going to think that is definitely weird "you want me to do what?!!" . What would happen if someone walked in on some sort of weird Sadomasochism thing, it would just look bad. In the comic however there is definitely tension between Silk Spectre I and the Comedian. Maybe aside from her weird fetishes, and him being a bastard they had other reasons to not get along. Then there are those guys that molest their daughters, which usually leads to their daughters promiscuity. It usually turns around and backfires when the girl falls for a guy just like her father. Its a crazy cyclical thing that happens and its unfortunate. What is Nite Owl going to be like in the future? He is probably going to be a good guy, but he is a costumed hero.. just like her dad. Not to mention her last boyfriend is a guy who has total moral ambiguity, and at the same time an unusual understanding of the world.

oh and the german video, is of course in german. So, only kdr will understand, and of course it will be laughable because i dont think any of us are speaking very good german

[Kairon]

It really has nothing to do with how slutty slik spectre was, but it shocked me the portrayal of women who went through attempted rape as needy weak women who go back their attacker.

I thought that the casting of this event as a "miracle" would counteract any suggestion that this is supposed to be representative of a larger population?

[ThePerm]

it pretty much does, but a lot of things are just not there because of the editing. Zach Snyder screws things up in editing. I remember reading in an interview he really hated cutting the thing. I would too. If he wants a 201 minute movie he should get it.

in a week it should recoup the budget, which is good

[Kairon]

I liked the movie, but I'm definitely not in love with it. I walked out going "good movie" and thinking that it was actually too slow and intellectual to be "visceral' in the way movies can be. I do dig the ending, even if it was more intellectual than exciting. Then again, I loved the ending of A.I.

Haven't read the source material, but my dad has and I prob will when I visit home again.

[ThePerm]

i read the first couple of chapters in borders books store, then i got a hold of the book by other means

[SirSniffy]

I just saw the movie last night. I thought it was pretty good. I give the producers and director credit though for cramming all this content into a movie format. And I also see why Alan Moore distanced himself from the project. The music was great, but I actually was more impressed with the music I heard from the different periods than with the actual soundtrack composed for the film. I really liked the cast though. When I saw The Comedian, I was like...Robert Downey Jr is in this?! Malin Ackerman(Silk Spectre)looked uncannily like Xena, Warrior Princess...which was not a bad thing at all.

The film had much more sex and nudity than I thought it would have, and nothing could have prepared me for all the gratuitous butt shots, nipple shots, and the "destined to be rewound on the DVD"wee wee flash of doom toward the end. Also, the film was violent y'all. I was shocked that ZS had the cojones to depict it, given that this was supposed to be a "superhero" film. But the Watchmen are not really superheroes so...

 I speed read the book in like 4 days so I would not be totally lost in the film. I can't wait for the DVD release, cause a LOT of things have been cut it seems. I have become an instant Silk Spectre fan.

[mantidor]

It really has nothing to do with how slutty slik spectre was, but it shocked me the portrayal of women who went through attempted rape as needy weak women who go back their attacker.

I thought that the casting of this event as a "miracle" would counteract any suggestion that this is supposed to be representative of a larger population?

Oh of course, but it was just an example, the vietnamese pregnant woman  being killed is another example, but thats more racism and honestly also a product of its time, Rambo killed hundreds of people and as long as they weren't american it was ok.

I mean the individual bits are explainable, but the sum of the parts had a greater effect. I guess I just can't stand at all violence against women.

Also, the movie is actually too long as it is, and that is it's biggest flaw, a longer time would have been terrible. Books and comics have the advantage that they are not meant to be consumed in one sitting, so trying to be literal when translating such source material to a film is a huge mistake. Maybe a mini-series would work much better if you want more content.

The only medium when sitting longer than 2 hours is tolerable is games, but thats a whole other topic

[SirSniffy]

I mean the individual bits are explainable, but the sum of the parts had a greater effect. I guess I just can't stand at all violence against women.

Same here. It was pretty tough to watch such graphic depictions of violence against women in the film, but I had to keep reminding myself afterward that these were done to put things in perspective.

One message I got from Silk Spectre's affair with the man who tried to brutally rape her, is that sometimes feelings, emotions, thoughts are conflicting and irrational, but we still have them. And even after someone you love or loved hurts you so terribly, you can still manage to find parts of them that you loved, or that you are still vulnerable too. Imagine falling in love with a person you feel has harmed you or violated you...it happens alot actually. Sometimes you can't dismiss someone as just good or just evil, you have to take the sum of them, and what you get out of it that justifies that kind of love.

Please don't think I condone violence of any kind, but I do see the context of the violence towards women in this movie.

[EasyCure]

i saw it, never read the comic, thought the film was really good but i didn't leave thinking "HOLY **** I GOTTA SEE THAT AGAIN!"

i heard there was plenty of penis in it, but when i noticed the giant penis statue in the opening scene to the left of The Comedians tv i thought to myself "this is just too much"

[bustin98]

Is that the Washington Monument you are refering to? Actually, I don't remember anything from that apartment other than the fight.

My mom had a coniption when I referenced the Monument as a phalic symbol. Hey, if Egyptians can have them, so can we.

[EasyCure]

Is that the Washington Monument you are refering to? Actually, I don't remember anything from that apartment other than the fight.

My mom had a coniption when I referenced the Monument as a phalic symbol. Hey, if Egyptians can have them, so can we.

hm... no i dont think so, the first shot i saw it in looked like a giant penis, with the distinct shape of the head and everything. when i pointed it out to my girlfriend, it was shown only briefly in the next few shots and not as detailed.

an obelelisk is a pretty phalic symbol, but trust me.. the shape i saw was not a pointy top lol

[ThePerm]

lol now you've just made the case to watch the movie multiple times. The question is would i have liked Fight club as much as i do if i read the book first?

[Ian Sane]

I just saw this on the weekend.  I read the book a few months ago for the first time.  I had always heard so much about it I figured I should buy it before the movie came out.  I figured watching the movie first or just hearing a lot about it would spoil the book for me.

I saw the film with my brother and a friend who had no clue beforehand what he was getting into at all.  As I watched the film I wondered if he would understand the plot without reading the book beforehand.  He admitted that he was a little confused at times.  Some stuff like Ozy's cat really shouldn't even be in the film since there's no explanation for it and seeing some weird ass cat mutant out of nowhere makes no sense without context.

I think I liked the film.  As I was watching it I was really enjoying it.  I thought 300 was stupid and the director is kind of a hack that relies way to much on slow motion and gore.  But I was able to deal with it.  I understand that the action scenes needed to be spiced up a bit more than they were in the book.  I didn't mind most of the changes.  Some of them seem to be "just because" which you always see but some are a requirement for the film medium.  Sometimes you have to streamline a written story for it to have the correct pacing in a movie form.

One change I liked?  How Rorschach kills the child killer.  In the book it's a complete rip-off of Mad Max which the film going public would likely pick up on immediately.  It had to be changed and I like the change.

But I can't help feel like the film was going along so well and was doing pretty much the best job one could ever expect of an adaptation of Watchmen until the last five minutes.  I don't mind how they ditched the squid.  I was concerned about it going in but I felt the new plan actually made a lot of sense and was done quite well.  I know the exact point the filmmakers revealed to me that they truly didn't get it.

I was talking with my brother a few days ago about the film and I mentioned that if I was making the film the scene I would put the most attention to would be Rorschach's death because for me that was the most emotional moment in the book.  Doc stops him and he looks, removes his mask while crying and shouts "DO IT!" and without hesitation Doc blasts him to bits.  That just hit me like a truck when I read that.  I didn't see it coming, it was so fast.  And it was so final.  Rorschach's dead.  Ozy won.  In the movie they had to go and completely kill the emotional impact.  You can see it happening a mile away because Rorschach stands there talking with his mask off for so long.  And then you get Nite Owl doing the cliche "NOOOO!"  That just killed it for me and I don't know if I can really say I like the movie.

After that it was just so exposed to me that the director didn't know what he was doing.  And sure enough Nite Owl and Silk Spectre's reaction is completely different and makes no sense.  So are they going to blab?  Part of the depression of the ending is that it seems like the only person who would reveal the truth was killed... until the little twist.  And then Doc doesn't say "It never ends" to Ozy.  It's just a throwaway line by a different character.  That was a big part of the whole POINT.  Ozy thinks he's the smartest person in the world, but he still is in awe of Doc and Doc alone.  He shows uncertainty only to him by asking if he did the right thing in the end and Doc doesn't give him the answer he wants to hear.  He "won" but because he will forever be uncertain if the innocent deaths he caused will truly make a difference, he loses.

I did however think the acting was overall really well done.  All of the actors played the parts pretty much exactly like I imagined.  Or if they didn't they played them in a way where I now see that's how I SHOULD have imagined the character as (I expected Dr. Manhattan to have a spaceman kind of voice but the gentle voice he has in the movie fits him perfectly).  My one complaint with the acting is that the chick who plays Laurie CAN'T ACT!  Holy **** does she absolutely suck and that role probably required some of the BEST acting.  She's just a pretty face and a body you would love to ****.  That's probably how she got the role in the first place.

Though I think it's kind of sad that while Watchmen is considered this great work of art with geeks, the mainstream is likely going to remember it as that blue penis movie.

But the film does have MICKEY FROM SEINFELD IN IT!  Go see it for that!

[ThePerm]

thats a pretty spot on assessment


When Rorschach got killed in the comic, it happened in a blink of an eye, i didn't expect it. If one thing was taken out of the movie it was definitely shock. All the shock moments became things you could predict(of course i did read the book) but still the way they did things was less shocking. Also, that damn cat...i think i mentioned it early, but the whole reason for the cat is to explain the genetic engineering for the readers so that when the squid comes theres some precedent. No squid, then no cat!


for a good example how they could have done a few things better watch Robocop or StarShip Troopers

[GoldenPhoenix]

I actually assumed that cat was some genetic hybrid that he created because of his obsession with Egyptian Culture and that it was supposed to resemble a creature from the myths, it didn't bother me at all. Also I was still impacted hard when Rorschach died even if it was leading up to it.


I actually read about half of the Graphic Novel so it still gave me a few surprises. It was easily one of my favorite movies, period.

[Ian Sane]

Perm, what you said about the lack of shock I chalk it up to the director.  He loves his slow motion.  And while in the action scenes I'm glad I could see what was going on instead of the Batman Begins "shake the camera around so no one can tell what's going on and I don't have choreograph anything" method it's not effective for shocking anyone.  When you slow stuff down you let everyone see what's going on and thus they can predict what is going to happen.  There are times and places to use it but sometimes you want something to just happen at full speed.  We've all had those moments in our lives where we think "no way that just happened" and you couldn't prevent it and there's nothing you can do about it now.  If you want the audience to feel that way you need to do at full speed.

I mean even the attempted rape is done in a cartoony fight scene way.  Where's the intensity?  But if he just punches her in the face and grabs her down and starts upbuckling his pants in the span of like five seconds it catches the audience off guard.  It's scary, as an attempted rape should be seen as.  If you were making a drama film and you had a scene where a guy just loses it and hits his wife would you do it in slow motion?  Would you have a long pause with him holding his hand in the air waiting to strike?  Would you telegraph it?  Or would just have him do it without warning the audience so that the audience is as shocked as she is?

So much of film making is getting the appropriate reaction out of the audience.  Aside from "that is so cool" I think Zack Snyder sucks at that.

[ThePerm]

as far as deaths go, Rachel vs Rorschach.

Rachel dies..were not sure its going to happen..it proabably won't batman always saves the day..BOOM, oh i guess he doesn't.

Rachel: Don't worry Harvey everything will be O...khBOOOOOM

In Watchmen novel
Rorschach "even in the face of armegeddon... Never comprimise!"
a couple of scenes pass with Laurie and Dreiberg
Dr. Manhatten - where are you going? Rorscach
Rorschach - back to the owlship, back to america, evil must be punished, people must be told
Dr. Manhatten - you know i can't let you do that (straight out of 2001)
Rorscach- huh, of course Must Protect Veidt's new utopia, one more body against foundations makes little difference, what are you waiting for do it
Dr. Manhatten - Rorschach..
Rorschach - Do it!
BOOM - blood everywhere, smoke billowing
i'm like WTF

instead in Watchmen movie

Rorschach "even in the face of Armageddon Never compromise!"
Dr. Manhattan - where are you going?
Rorschach - i have to keep ozymandias's perfect world safe (an obious lie)
Dr. Manhattan - Sure
Rorschach - kill me now I've got nothing left to live for, you've won
Dr. Manhattan (thinking)Maybe i shouldn't?
Rorschach- Dooooooo iiiiit!
Dr Manhatten - ok you asked for it
BOOM
Nite Owl and Darth Vader - Nooooooooooooooooo!
a blood splatter in the snow(a nice touch..not in the comic, an improvement)
Well he asked for it
Then we get those scenes from laurie and dreiberg

[nickmitch]

I agree with you guys on both of those scenes.  I feel that if they were shorter, there would've been at least a few extra seconds to show more of Walter with his "The end is nigh" sign, so that his reveal has more impact.