Topic: I predict a Wii price drop will come after the holidays

[KDR_11k]

Ian, one reason they're telling us that is so we know there won't be a pricedrop and don't wait for one. Iwata once said people actually buy more games at full price if they know there won't be a price drop (I think he might have phrased it the other way around, they buy less games at full price if they expect pricedrops).

Third party support would have been just as bad no matter how much or little profit Nintendo makes from the Wii, in fact I think it would have gotten worse support if they tried to keep pushing the grapghics as Sony and MS really overstretched to get a jump in the graphical area, leading to massive losses. If Nintendo just went for break-even the graphics would still not be competitive with the HD consoles but they'd be too good to allow cross platform development with the last gen so a Wii game has zero cross-platformability. Getting cheap ports from the HD consoles was impossible anyway and all they could do was cut off the other port source. Additionally the increased graphics expenses would be wasted money since all better graphics do at this point is cost money on the hardware and on the software, they don't increase sales.

You want Nintendo to pay for PS3 hardware. Why don't YOU pay for PS3 hardware and buy yourself one?

[Ian Sane]

You want Nintendo to pay for PS3 hardware. Why don't YOU pay for PS3 hardware and buy yourself one?

Stupid Blu-Ray junk increases the cost too much.  Seems to have worked for Sony though since Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD.  Their non-gaming plans for the PS3 actually worked.  But it's too damn expensive still.  But unlike the Xbox 360 there's no red ring of death which is a big deal to me and leaning the "Ian inevitably buys a second console because the Wii's super lame" decision in the PS3's favour.  Need a damn price cut though.

My objection to the Wii's hardware is mostly that when you're sacrificing hardware to get the price down the least you can do is go for the absolute best hardware you possible can manage under that price point.  But instead Nintendo went even further than that so they could make a profit off the hardware from launch.  That's screwing the consumer.  You deliver a new console it better be way f*cking better than the previous one.  I swear if the Cube had a remote controller you could port every goddamn Wii game to it.  So now my third party offerings consist of PS2 ports with sh!tty waggle control.  They had the GALL to talk about how MS and Sony weren't offering noticable differences in their new consoles and then proceeded to be complete f*cking hypocrites and re-package last-gen hardware with a new novelty controller.  They're borderline cheating us.

Lack of purpose in general is what has made this generation very meh.  Nintendo is not the only one guilty of it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

This is the best generation of all.

See above post.

[Morari]

Stupid Blu-Ray junk increases the cost too much.  Seems to have worked for Sony though since Blu-Ray beat HD-DVD.  Their non-gaming plans for the PS3 actually worked.  But it's too damn expensive still.

It hasn't worked yet. There is still plenty of time for Blu-Ray to die off in favor of some other emerging format. The fact of the matter is that only a very small portion of the market even cares at this point.

[Chozo Ghost]

I agree with Morari. I've read up on some superior disc formats on Wikipedia involving holograms and the like... Blu-ray isn't going to have the life-span of DVD, that's for sure.

[KDR_11k]

And you think throwing those, what, 19$?, at the hardware would suddently put it on par with the PS3 and 360?

[Ian Sane]

It hasn't worked yet. There is still plenty of time for Blu-Ray to die off in favor of some other emerging format. The fact of the matter is that only a very small portion of the market even cares at this point.

Well yeah.  I see Blu-Ray as the new Laserdisc.  But they still killed off HD-DVD and I really didn't think they would.  I mean Sony always loses in format wars, right?  I think the PS3 previously clearly helped them with that.  Not necessarily worth sabotaging your videogame console for but it's some sort of victory.

[ThePerm]

blu-ray is awesome, it may be an optical disc, but not a fad like laserdisc.

on the other hand sd card technology is becoming cheaper every moth. I saw an 8gb sd card at Fry's Electronics for only $17.99, once they get into the 40gb territory for that price than they start looking like good candidates for making consoles cheaper(return to cartridge). Not to mention what future handhelds have to offer.

[GoldenPhoenix]

blu-ray is awesome, it may be an optical disc, but not a fad like laserdisc.

on the other hand sd card technology is becoming cheaper every moth. I saw an 8gb sd card at Fry's Electronics for only $17.99, once they get into the 40gb territory for that price than they start looking like good candidates for making consoles cheaper(return to cartridge). Not to mention what future handhelds have to offer.

That would be hilarious if console gaming went back to cartridges. Shows that Nintendo was WAY ahead of its time with the N64

[nickmitch]

It'll be a solid state future.

[Ian Sane]

That would be hilarious if console gaming went back to cartridges. Shows that Nintendo was WAY ahead of its time with the N64

Nah, SNK were ahead of their time.  They put huge CD-sized games on cartridges and charged a couple hundreds bucks a pop for them.  If we got back to cartridges we'll pretty much get the same thing only it will be affordable.

I would love it though.  Cartridges are just cool, you know?  Plus cartridge consoles have no moving parts.  No red ring of death or any crap like that.  My SNES works flawlessly but I know that despite the quality of Nintendo products my Cube and Wii will likely not last as long.  Solid state gaming is ideal for classic game collectors.  Plus t heycan put custom chips and such in cartridges which was always fun.  And special COLOUR cartridges like gold Zelda carts and such.  Oh yeah and that no load times thing but cartridge colours!  COME ON!!

[EasyCure]

I have burned cd's that are on black discs, those are pretty bad ass. Why cant they make a golden zelda disc

[Adrock]

Price drop in May, failing that October. It'll happen next year for sure. If the Wii seems to be reaching a saturation point, a price drop and Wii Sports Resort will put and end to that.

My objection to the Wii's hardware is mostly that when you're sacrificing hardware to get the price down the least you can do is go for the absolute best hardware you possible can manage under that price point.  But instead Nintendo went even further than that so they could make a profit off the hardware from launch.  That's screwing the consumer.

That's good business. Taking a loss on hardware is too risky. Do you really think whatever you buy is worth exactly how much you paid for it? That includes the Dollar Menu at McDonald's. How do you expect any business to turn a profit? In hindsight, Nintendo should have considered more powerful hardware, namely hardware that could looked as good or close to what 360/PS3 can do on a standard TV, but then again, it's hard to argue that Nintendo made the wrong choice with the Wii selling so well.

In any case, I don't know why you're so baffled and/or appalled. Nintendo's business plan has always revolved around maximizing profits.

[Ian Sane]

Taking a loss on hardware is too risky.

Where did I say they had to take a loss?  It isn't just profit or loss.  They could aim to break even or make a smaller profit with the idea being to get the absolute best hardware they can out of that pricepoint to give their console enough legs to last five years without looking out of date.  No one is suggesting they take a bath on the hardware or anything.  Just don't sell me last gen hardware when I know you already make money on literally EVERY GAME ON THE ENTIRE CONSOLE.  With Nintendo is just always feels like the rich wanting to be richer.  They're always trying to squeeze that extra penny out of us.

And with the Wii it feels like they said to themselves "these non-gaming rubes we're targetting don't know sh!t.  We'll just revamp our last console, which they didn't buy anyway, a little bit and they'll never know the difference.  We can re-release some of our best Cube games as well.  And our fans will buy our stuff anyway so we don't even have to worry about them noticing.  And those that do can leave for all we care because we'll replace them with the rubes."  It feels like Nintendo would never even attempt to make a console like the Wii for the old market because they know it would bomb but because they're targetting the mainstream they can cut as many corners as they like and get away with it.  When presented with a situation where they had to very seriously consider addressing a lot of their unpopular policies they cleverly found a new audience too disinterested to care.

"I've driven away all my friends by being a prick but instead of turning over a new leaf and trying to win them back I'll just find a new group of dumber friends who will take longer to discover what I prick I am."

[King of Twitch]

The second paragraph made my head spin

[GoldenPhoenix]

Yeah those games like SMG, MP3, Zelda: TP, Super Paper Mario, and SSB:B sure did bomb and nothing more than stupid Gamecube ports. Also it is kind of funny that the reason the Wii was successful IS because it wasn't just another Gamecube, but a different way to interact with games.

[Chozo Ghost]

blu-ray is awesome, it may be an optical disc, but not a fad like laserdisc.

on the other hand sd card technology is becoming cheaper every moth. I saw an 8gb sd card at Fry's Electronics for only $17.99, once they get into the 40gb territory for that price than they start looking like good candidates for making consoles cheaper(return to cartridge). Not to mention what future handhelds have to offer.

It is possible. But while an SD card may cost $15 - $20 a piece, an optical disc format like perhaps Blu-ray would only cost about a tenth of that, or even less. And when you consider games cost 50 - 60 dollars each, that means if they were released on SD cards then about 1/3rd of the cost of the game would be in the medium alone, and that would mean much less profit for game developers. As a result, there would be fewer games because it would be less likely to make a profit, and companies would be more more frugal with the games they did publish. So it would basically be like the N64 all over again (and trust me, I remember that for a while N64 games were like $90 each brand new!)

[Chozo Ghost]

I would love it though.  Cartridges are just cool, you know?  Plus cartridge consoles have no moving parts.  No red ring of death or any crap like that.

Cartridges have their downsides. As I said in my previous post, the cost per MB (or GB) is much greater for any cart or card than it is for an optical format such as CD or DVD or Blu-ray. Even if Nintendo/Sony/MS didn't jack up the price for their cartridge based games, it would still be a problem for consumers because the profit margin for game developers would be much slimmer since more money would need to go towards the medium cost, and that means smaller game companies would be hurt really bad, and even the big game companies would probably cancel and choose not to fund risky new franchises which they otherwise might have done.

Also, at least in the case of the NES carts, they had a terrible problem of getting dust in them and not being readable in the system. Of course, the same could be said of Discs that if you scratch them they won't work, but at least you can keep your discs in working order for your whole lifetime if you take good enough care of them. The same thing can't be said for carts, because the contacts will corrode, and also the carts usually rely on batteries to keep saves. Eventually those batteries are going to die.

You say carts have no moving parts, but the act of jamming them into a console and ripping them out is movement, and it results in wear and tear on those contacts. A laser reading a plastic disc isn't going to wear it out at least.

[NWR_pap64]

A Wii price drop will happen sooner or later. I don't see the Wii ending its lifespan still priced at 250.

[KDR_11k]

Also it is kind of funny that the reason the Wii was successful IS because it wasn't just another Gamecube, but a different way to interact with games.

I guess Ian is one of those tech fetishists who think if it has the same graphics it's the same console even though it had massive developments in the user interface sector. Some other important people said they consider the Wii the only real next gen console because the others are just the same old with more graphics while the Wii provides a real step ahead that the user will actually benefit from.

Also, Adrock, I don't think the bit of money they made from the Wii console itself would have bought enough hardware to compete with the HD consoles (even at SD since the hardware isn't taxed much by resolution changes). Especially when it comes to ports, the system would still be significantly weaker. Remember, the Wii does include new technology like the controller and whatnot and all that stuff costs money too.

[Chozo Ghost]

I guess Ian is one of those tech fetishists who think if it has the same graphics it's the same console even though it had massive developments in the user interface sector. Some other important people said they consider the Wii the only real next gen console because the others are just the same old with more graphics while the Wii provides a real step ahead that the user will actually benefit from.

Interface improvements aside, the Wii is more powerful than the GC. Isn't it supposed to be as powerful as 2.5 gamecubes, or something like that? Obviously, its not as much of a leap forward as the 360 or PS3 was over their predecessors, but it is an improvement nonetheless. Remember, the Wii and the GC share the same chipset and architecture, but Wii games would NOT run on the GC, because the Wii hardware is more powerful.

I suppose you could look at it like how an IBM compatible PC from a few years ago seems so similar to an IBM compatible PC from the current year. Sure, an older PC and a newer PC will be about the same to program for, and odds are 99% of new software will run on the slightly older PC as well, but that's not to say the newer one isn't faster and more powerful. So again, there IS an improvement, but understandably it might not be as much of an improvement as Ian and most gamers would like....

And even if graphics were EXACTLY the same, that would completely ignore the countless other enhancements the console introduced; including everything from the controller to the virtual console to the internal memory to the WiFi support. All of these and all the other enhancements are enough in my opinion to consider the Wii a successor to the GC, even if graphics are only incrementally improved.

[King of Twitch]

PLUS THE GAMES WOULDN'T FIT IN THE GAME CUBE TRAY

[EasyCure]

PLUS THE GAMES WOULDN'T FIT IN THE GAME CUBE TRAY

That alone is better than your last few funhouse topics.

[King of Twitch]

Hey, I put a lot of thought and heart into those topics

[Chozo Ghost]

Who is that in your avatar, Zap?