Topic: So it turns out the Wii doesn't have that many good games

[Bill Aurion]

Some people say videogames are just for kids and nerds.  The small amount of people that review wrestling don't feel the wrestling is crappy.  To me the comparison would only make sense if ALL videogames were crapped on by the mainstream media.  Someone who hates all videogames would not be a worthwhile reviewer of videogames just like someone who hates wrestling isn't a good reviewer of that (ie: if you liked wrestling they couldn't recommend what the best stuff would be).  But these videogame reviewers do like games and thus their opinion on what videogames are worth playing and what aren't is more valid.

Hahaha, no...I can't believe you are trying to get away with considering videogames as a single independent class of entertainment...Surely you have heard of genres considering you try your best to classify games as either "hardcore" or "casual"...
 
Let's try this...Wrestling is a "sport," if you wish to call it that...Thus, it is a single genre in that whole category...People who don't like wrestling (the majority) tend to like other sports (whether it be baseball, football, karate, etc.), and thus Deg's analogy still fits perfectly...

Some douchebag who blindly hates all videogames would have a worthless opinion as would some fanboy who likes everything.

*snicker*

[Deguello]

Well my tastes aren't awful so I won't agree to it.  My tastes in movies, television, music, literature and videogames is typically pretty critically acclaimed.

I think your tastes are awful because you have, at one point, actually watched professional wrestling on purpose and with full intent of viewing the contents.

Some people say videogames are just for kids and nerds.  The small amount of people that review wrestling don't feel the wrestling is crappy.  To me the comparison would only make sense if ALL videogames were crapped on by the mainstream media.  Someone who hates all videogames would not be a worthwhile reviewer of videogames just like someone who hates wrestling isn't a good reviewer of that (ie: if you liked wrestling they couldn't recommend what the best stuff would be).  But these videogame reviewers do like games and thus their opinion on what videogames are worth playing and what aren't is more valid.  Some douchebag who blindly hates all videogames would have a worthless opinion as would some fanboy who likes everything.

Professional Wrestling does not exist by itself on it's own plane of existence.  Ask a martial artist what he thinks of Professional Wrestling.  He'll probably say it's pathetic, boring, asinine, stupid, and the people who enjoy it or who have ever enjoyed it at any one time are toothless hillbillies who are too lazy to change the channel to Hee Haw because it would mean moving the hog off their lap.  Ask a TV Critic and he'll sneer and wonder why the hell it gets any airtime when they could have infomercials on that 3 hour block and raise the IQ of the viewership from single to double digits.  These are the people that review Pro Wrestling and they hate the hell out of it.  They are the "critics" and you, having enjoyed it at one time, would probably say they are wrong.  Well guess what, you have bad tastes.  The fact that you had to redefine who reviews it GIVES CREDENCE to those who are complaining that Wii games are getting down-rated because of gamer elitist snobbery, ideological differences, or just plain old fashioned Nintendo hate.

You can still come out of this OK if you just say people who disagree with critics don't automatically have "bad taste," nor do any significant percentage.  Otherwise, you are cast in there with them.

You're going to write reviews for your readers.  If you're a videogame website casuals aren't going to be reading your site.

I remember you busting a nut over Game Informer reviewing Paper Mario 2 by "how they thought their readers" would see it.  So now you are in favor of this behavior?

Don't nitpick about terms.  "Hardcore", "core", "old school", "gamer games", etc.  It all means the old group prior to Nintendo's blue market strategy that specifically attracted a different new group.

You know "The Blue Ocean Strategy" is a book that I know you haven't read, and yet you pretend to know what it's about.  *Sigh* if only intellectual dishonesty were a bannable offense.

[Chozo Ghost]

The 360 has been out for a year longer than the Wii or PS3 has been, so why wouldn't it have more quality games at this point? A more valid comparison would be to compare the Wii library with that of the PS3, since  these two consoles came out at the same time, so this would be a fairer comparison.

So does the PS3 library trounce the Wii's? Or is it actually vice versa?

[Chozo Ghost]

Well my tastes aren't awful so I won't agree to it.  My tastes in movies, television, music, literature and videogames is typically pretty critically acclaimed.

You see that as a virtue? Personally, I think people should just like whatever they like, and to hell with the critics. Sure, when I'm looking to buy a new game or book or something I will usually take reviews by other people into consideration, but I won't bind myself to those reviews. What one person may hate, another might love. Everyone's tastes differ, naturally.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Wii vs PS3 library? In MY OPINION the Wii's library easily, the ratio of Wii to PS3 games I own is 4:1. But I still stand that reviews don't mean jack, sure they are good if you want to know what a person thinks about it or a general guideline if the game could be good or bad based on someone's OPINION.

The problem with this thread is just everyone is comparing scores, in a in depth review the score alone is worthless until you read what warranted the score, what's good and what's bad about the game. The problem I have with how people take review scores is they act like it is the end all decision whether to buy something or not, it isn't because it's not like NWR or IGN or any other site are forcing you to buy this game or not to buy this game against your will, you the consumer make that decision with your own money.

[Ian Sane]

You see that as a virtue? Personally, I think people should just like whatever they like, and to hell with the critics.

You should like what you like.  I like whatever I like.  At the same time I've never been a "well critics don't know anything" kind of person.  Sometimes they crap on a film or a videogame I love.  That's going to happen sometimes to everyone.  But if you always disagree with critics then maybe, just maybe, you have crappy tastes.  I'm using people I work worth as an example.  Those that say "critics are always wrong" like the worst movies, worst music, worst TV.  Everyone is allowed some guilty pleasures and stuff like that.  But in my personal experience the people that differ from the critics enough to develop an attitude that critics are rarely right are the same people that get confused by movies with "too much talking".

You can still come out of this OK if you just say people who disagree with critics don't automatically have "bad taste," nor do any significant percentage.  Otherwise, you are cast in there with them.

It's the people who disagree with critics 99% of the time who have the attitude that critics know nothing that have bad taste.  It's like everything I write you interpret in black and white robot terms.  "But Ian you said this three years ago..." What the hell?

And personally I think wrestling is it's own entity.  What else exists where people pretend to fight each other in front of a live arena audience and stay in character off-screen to the point where they appear on talk shows and stuff as their character?  Nothing.  It isn't a sport.  It isn't even exactly a TV show since it's really TV coverage of a live event.  It originally was a carnie style con.  A fixed sport that the audience is now well aware is fixed and yet watches it anyway for the entertainment of it.  It's weird and unique as hell.  And isn't "you like wrestling so you must be an idiot" a fallacy?  You're only a idiot if you think it's real.

I remember you busting a nut over Game Informer reviewing Paper Mario 2 by "how they thought their readers" would see it.  So now you are in favor of this behavior?

That still pisses me off.  I feel they weren't giving their true opinion and they were allowing something like image to affect their score.  They were making no effort to be unbiased.  But in the case of most reviewers where a hardcore gamer is reviewing a game I'm pretty sure the 6 or so he gives to a non-game is his real opinion.  He's a hardcore gamer and doesn't like the simplistic design of most non-games.  Criticism of gameplay is obviously valid.  His readership is like him so they are not misled by this review.  I don't like the idea of "guessing" a review and making the assumption that the audience will have a different opinion than you do.  I don't like the "maybe you'll like this if..." approach.  Give your honest opinion and if you feel there is some personal bias that will make your opinion worthless to most of the readers (like Fran getting a bug up his butt about decals or something in Mario Kart) get someone else to review it.  But don't guess.  Game Informer seemed like they gave a poor score to Paper Mario by guessing what the audience would think and not what they themselves actually thought.  In reality Game Informer was actually misinforming their audience as their readers probably WOULD have liked the game if they were willing to look past the presentation.  People need to find reviewers that have similar tastes to them.  So give your honest opinion and if non-games get crapped on it's fine if those reviewers are giving their honest opinion and it's beneficial to the readers that feel that have similar tastes.

[Chozo Ghost]

You should like what you like.  I like whatever I like.  At the same time I've never been a "well critics don't know anything" kind of person.  Sometimes they crap on a film or a videogame I love.  That's going to happen sometimes to everyone.  But if you always disagree with critics then maybe, just maybe, you have crappy tastes.  I'm using people I work worth as an example.  Those that say "critics are always wrong" like the worst movies, worst music, worst TV.  Everyone is allowed some guilty pleasures and stuff like that.  But in my personal experience the people that differ from the critics enough to develop an attitude that critics are rarely right are the same people that get confused by movies with "too much talking".

Video game quality is definitely subjective, but the point of video games is to have fun. If someone is VERY entertained by something like Carnival Games and has a lot of fun out of it, then it's done its job well, regardless of what the reviewers say about it. Actually, the people who enjoy CG are probably the same sort of people who would NOT enjoy Zelda or Metroid, even though those are considered AAA titles by the critics.

And that's fine with me. I'm more a Zelda and potatoes kind of gamer and don't care for those sort of things, but everyone has different tastes. When it comes to subjective matters, no one is more right than anyone else. There is no such thing as "crappy tastes". If you think someone's tastes are crap, that's only your opinion.

[Chozo Ghost]

Sorry, double post.

[Morari]

Wandering: don't bother man, nobody's listening.

Yeah it is obvious PC is the superior platform.

It has always been obvious too!

[KDR_11k]

Don't nitpick about terms.  "Hardcore", "core", "old school", "gamer games", etc.  It all means the old group prior to Nintendo's blue market strategy that specifically attracted a different new group.

So the group who loves Animal Crossing, Mario Party, Madden, PES and all the other sequels. Okay.

[Plugabugz]

I told my older brother to see Wall E and that its the best film i've seen in 2008 (i've seen a new film every week for nearly 3 months).
He says he's not going to because critics said it's ****. Given how there's been near-universal praise for the film i don't know what he's talking about there.

It's all subjective.

[Maverick]

I'm sorry but your older brother is a moron.  I mean, that's two levels of fail right there in one explanation.

[Plugabugz]

Oh i agree, i really agree.

Then he argued how he thinks ZOHAN is a better film.

The point is, unless you know the person (who is telling you an opinion) is very close with your own then take it with a bucket of salt.

[NWR_insanolord]

This whole Wii games lineup argument is disturbingly like a political discussion. Both sides feel very strongly about it, it's entirely based in opinion so there can be no definitive answer, and it's something where intelligent people can come to different conclusions. It's like Nintendo was in a laboratory and they combined the worst aspects of political discussion with video game discussion and created a virus they used to engage in biological warfare with gaming forums.

[Infernal Monkey]

Universally Acclaimed NWR Forum Games:

- Whinging about Nintendo

[Flames_of_chaos]

This whole Wii games lineup argument is disturbingly like a political discussion. Both sides feel very strongly about it, it's entirely based in opinion so there can be no definitive answer, and it's something where intelligent people can come to different conclusions. It's like Nintendo was in a laboratory and they combined the worst aspects of political discussion with video game discussion and created a virus they used to engage in biological warfare with gaming forums.

Same thing can be said about the 360 and PS3 line up.
The whole Too Human debacle and people thinking that Little Big Planet will flop. Seriously in every game console there are games that will and won't appeal to you just buy what games seem interesting to you and go enjoy them.

[NWR_Lindy]

I think video games are a lot like Pop Music now.  It breaks down into three tiers.

1) You have your garbage pop artists, where they sell a crap-ton, are totally formulaic, and music snobs can't wrap their head around how they sell so much.  Since I like rap, I'll say these are guys like Soulja Boy.  No imagination and pretty much awful.  On the Wii this is stuff like Carnival Games, and probably a bunch of other stuff that I will never, ever waste my time researching for the sake of presenting as evidence in a forum post.

2) Then you have your artists that straddle the line between critical acclaim and street cred.  Guys that come to mind here are Jay-Z, Kanye West, and Ludacris.  Both pop people and music snobs have to acknowledge their talent.  On Wii this is stuff like Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, and Super Mario Galaxy.  This is pretty much "universal respect" territory.

3) Then you have underground artists that music snobs love, but their appeal is lost on most people.  A lot of people won't "get" these groups, but those that love them love them with a passion.  I'm not a backpacker so I can't think of many rap examples here, but groups like Company Flow/El-P and Aesop Rock come to mind.  On Wii this is stuff like No More Heroes, MADWORLD, Fragile.  The obscure stuff that breeds snobbery.

[NWR_insanolord]

You just described every form of popular entertainment.

[NWR_Lindy]

Yeah, but I had fun doing it, which is the important thing.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Yeah, but I had fun doing it, which is the important thing.

Just like you should do with games instead of having a giant dick waving contest of which platform has games with better review score.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, but I had fun doing it, which is the important thing.

Just like you should do with games instead of having a giant dick waving contest of which platform has games with better review score.

You just won this thread and all the other ones that are exactly the same.

[EasyCure]

Universally Acclaimed NWR Forum Games:

- Whinging about Nintendo
- Mafia

slightly fixed

Yeah, but I had fun doing it, which is the important thing.

Just like you should do with games instead of having a giant dick waving contest of which platform has games with better review score.

You just won this thread and all the other ones that are exactly the same.

quoted for mother fucking truth.

i used to be a music snob when i was a teen and luckily, thankfully, i grew out of that **** pretty fast and simply learned to enjoy what i like and not worry/care/hate on anything else that was popular at the time. I've never been that way with games so i don't care for the bitchfest that threads like these have turned NWR into.

i dont mind our generic bitchfest about games being delayed or posters who suck, etc.

[vudu]

3) Then you have underground artists that music snobs love, but their appeal is lost on most people.  A lot of people won't "get" these groups, but those that love them love them with a passion.  I'm not a backpacker so I can't think of many rap examples here

Try Saul Williams.

[NWR_Lindy]

Maybe Sage Francis, Cannibal Ox, and Aesop Rock.

[Stogi]

Atmosphere as well...