Topic: The game has been leak! Prepare for spoilers!

[capamerica]

Hearing that Clones are still in I'm kind of pissed off that my two fav Melee characters are not coming back.

Looks like the only new characters I'll be playing as will be Sonic and maybe Pit. =/ Other then that Its pretty much just Melee characters (Link, Samus, Pikachu, Zelda and Bowser).

After all the months of hype I was expecting something big to have been hidden, someone that would have made me really excited. Instead all the exciting characters were announced at day 1 (with the exception of Sonic, but we all pretty much figured he was in) I guess it was to much to expect after the weeks of crappy updates to the Smash site.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Ganondorf being a clone sucks if it is true, but again, he had a defined play style, and we already have tons of sword fighters so why not let him be different...and he really didn't play that poorly in Melee...people just didn't like the concept of his move style not being original.

Ganondorf had potential to be a super unique character by mixing magic with hand to hand. It is a travesty that Sakurai decided to make one of the most important villains in Nintendo history a clone once again with close to 3 years of development time. Don't even get me started if Falco and Ness are clones as well, because such a poor, shallow, lineup of secret characters should have at least merited some attention to their movesets.  

[PK Ness]

Also, looking at the music list... Dr. Mario's melee music is in. I think he might be returning as well. So clones look to be back in melee. Just as long as Pichu is gone, I'm fine.

(BTW I'm not new to the forums just newly registered. I finally decided to join the brawl so to speak. Here's to the next few weeks as I think they will be crazy!)

[Smash_Brother]

They delayed the game, took as long as they needed and STILL...clones.

God friggin' dammit...

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think I need to play Endless Ocean again, the fishies will calm me down.

[UncleBob]

Hmm... I wonder.  Could "clones" be in the game for some other reason than the game was "rushed" or "poorly designed"?  I mean, seriously, knowing everything that we do about this game (without actually playing it yet, of course), would anyone really consider Brawl to be rushed or poorly designed?

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: UncleBob
Hmm... I wonder.  Could "clones" be in the game for some other reason than the game was "rushed" or "poorly designed"?  I mean, seriously, knowing everything that we do about this game (without actually playing it yet, of course), would anyone really consider Brawl to be rushed or poorly designed?

I don't believe anyone said it was poorly designed. And what other reason would there be for clones in the game other than the game was rushed? Because if it wasn't rushed there wouldn't be clones, though I do not think the game was nearly as rushed out the door as Melee. It just makes me sick that they added so much other stuff to the game but couldn't make the whole roster (which is quite small) unique especially since this will probably be the last Sakurai Smash Brothers game.

[Smash_Brother]

Yeah, all of the people who said "Don't complain about all the extras! I'm sure the roster will be incredible!" can eat some crow now.

He couldn't even give the 'dorf a goddamn sword...dammit...

[Arbok]

Wow, just... wow. So here is my take on the Brawl roster, since the 35 seems set in stone pretty much:

Awesome roster, but crappy unlockables leading to major disappointment. Let's be fair, the starting roster is great, and Sonic and Snake are nice unlockables... but the rest? Most are veterans, while Lucario looks to, indeed, take Mewtwo's moveset. Ganondorf still being a clone is sad. I'm happy in a way, as I mained him, but he deserves his own unique moveset and they should have added someone like Black Shadow to carry the "heavy Falcon" mantel instead. Wind Waker Link is likely going to be Young Link reborn too, if Ganondorf is still a clone.

What I'm really disappointed at is what's left: Wolf and ROB? *sigh* I'm also disappointed at the sausage fest the game became with 35 characters, and only 3 being female. Really, I mean couldn't they have used Krystal instead of Wolf to help that ratio just a little?

EDIT: Oh, also, even though I didn't expect it at all... I still weep over no playable Advance Wars characters.

[Sarail]

I, too, am quite upset that Ganondorf is a clone character along with Ness and Falco.  Falco, IMO, shouldn't even be in the game to begin with, and Ness and Ganondorf should have had movesets unique to their style.  Don't even get me started on Marth...

It's looking more and more like Krystal isn't going to be playable either -- another HUGE loss for Sakurai as she would have made for a far more interesting Brawl fighter than most of the unlockables shown so far -- a bo staff-wielding furry with a few magical abilities.

Where's Ray 01, where's the AC playable fighter, and where's Isaac??!  All of these would make for far more interesting choices than the current set of "clones" that Sakurai has given in to using in Brawl.

The game is going to be great, don't get me wrong.  I'm sure it plays much better compared to Melee.  But the inclusion of clone characters once again, and the fact that the game is lacking more unique fighters other than Olimar, P.Trainer, and Solid Snake makes me quite sad.

Maybe we'll get downloadable characters via the WFC?

[GoldenPhoenix]

It is funny, but I think I am most angry because the game was not rushed and yet they still have clones. The main excuse for Melee was that it was on a tight schedule and it was better to include clones than not have them at all, well you can't say that about Brawl which had all the time in the world to perfect a solid and diverse range of fighters along with a myriad of extras. Also I do agree the starting roster is great, but I am utterly disappointed that the secret characters are looking to be lazily implemented in order to bump up the character count, besides Sonic and Snake of course. Not to mention my 2nd favorite villain, Ganondorf is once again nothing more than a minor thought (At least Bowser will rock). Yeah I don't like the secret character cast, but I was willing to let it go if they were all unique, but now, I dunno. I can't imagine anyone really defending so many clones again.

[capamerica]

After re-watching the intro again, It saddens me even more that the unlockables include Mr Game & Watch, R.O.B and Celda Link.

I really wish Midna and Ashley were in the game. They could have been really Cool.

Instead we got lame unlockables and REALLY lame trophies and stickers.

After seeing the remainder lineup and looking back at all the garbage that was put into Brawl, I actually don't feel at all bad that Sakurai is leaving Smash Bros. In fact I would be more then happy to help him clean out his desk.

Time to bring in someone who is more connected to the fans and cares more for the series.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: capamerica


After seeing the remainder lineup and looking back at all the garbage that was put into Brawl and I actually don't feel at all bad that Sakurai is leaving Smash Bros. In fact I would be more then happy to help him clean out his desk.

Ouch, that is pretty harsh lol. You may have a point though, the series may need a new director to provide a fresh look for future iterations. Say what you want about Sakurai (And I have alot to say) he managed to craft a perfect fighting style, so a new director shouldn't have much trouble getting the foundations right.

[Sarail]

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, cap.

Midna + Wolf Link, Ray 01, Isaac, Micaiah, Jill from Drill Dozer, Krystal, Animal Crosser, Mega Man, Simon Belmont -- all of these would be MUCH greater additions than the unlockables seen already.

I'm a bit upset because of it, but I'm anticipating the game just as I always have.

Though, if a new Smash does get crafted in the future, maybe listening to the fans a little closer -- concerning character additions -- wouldn't be such a bad idea.  o_O

Too many great ideas passed up for clone characters like Falco and Marth.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Rachtman
Too many great ideas passed up for clone characters like Falco and Marth.

Why is Marth getting lumped in here? He plays nothing like Ike and without Roy there is no one left who he is more or less a clone. He may look similar to Ike, but the two have very different play styles.

[Smash_Brother]

Do we know that Ike isn't a slower, more powerful version of Marth? I've only briefly seen either of their moves, but they both have the counter move, for sure...

[Strell]

If you are upset about the roster in the game, and blame it on "lame unlockables and lame stickers," you are an insatiable idiot, and are doomed to be forever disappointed in real life.

Forget that you know nothing about the development cycle of the game, that 9 new characters have been added, that an entire single player experience was crafted from scratch, an entire online fixture is put into place, and that just about everything in the game has been overhauled.

You're upset because Marth is back.

Wow.

I knew at some point there was going to be an inevitable backlash against the game, but I damn sure didn't think it would be this early and from the fans who have been on baited hooks for the last 1.5 years awaiting what is going to be the biggest Wii - and Nintendo - game to date.

Christ.  Gamers are so spoiled and whiny these days.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Strell
If you are upset about the roster in the game, and blame it on "lame unlockables and lame stickers," you are an insatiable idiot, and are doomed to be forever disappointed in real life.



Forget that you know nothing about the development cycle of the game, that 9 new characters have been added, that an entire single player experience was crafted from scratch, an entire online fixture is put into place, and that just about everything in the game has been overhauled.



You're upset because Marth is back.



Wow.



I knew at some point there was going to be an inevitable backlash against the game, but I damn sure didn't think it would be this early and from the fans who have been on baited hooks for the last 1.5 years awaiting what is going to be the biggest Wii - and Nintendo - game to date.



Christ.  Gamers are so spoiled and whiny these days.

Yeah, because it is too much to expect a relatively small roster to have unique movesets, especially for some of the most important characters in Nintendo history like Ganondorf. It is such a stupid exclusion, people have a right to be a pit POed, especially since most of us care about the fighters, with other modes/extras as secondary. I was willing to accept the leaked roster with ROB but only if they were all unique and didn't look like a lazy attempt to bump up the fighter number in a game that has been anything BUT RUSHED.

[Strell]

You should have just stopped after reading "insatiable idiot," because it's obvious you're not going to listen to anything else other than your own diseased mind.

Every other fighting game has clones.  Every single last one.

But oh no, Smash Bros has only some 25+ unique characters.

THE HORROR.

SAKURAI IS SO LAZY I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE IT WOMG.

[Spak-Spang]

You know, there are things I could be disappointed about.  But what I am really most upset about is how they presented the characters and who they chose to be unlockables and not.  

If NESS was starting then Lucas would have been a cool surprise...even if he was a clone.  
It makes me wish that the unlockables were never shown like Snake and Sonic.  I think it would have been a great round up if they did something smart like added: MetaKnight, Pit, Wario, Pokemon Trainer as the new starting characters and kept secret totally:

Sonic,
Snake,
King Dedede,
Ganondorf,
Olimar
ect..

Then the hidden character list would have appeared much stronger.  

I must say, that I am not totally disappointed with clones...for instance I am really glad Toon Zelda is in the game no matter what.  

What I am upset about is that the game is totally lacking female characters and ignoring the list of female characters they could of had great movesets.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Strell
You should have just stopped after reading "insatiable idiot," because it's obvious you're not going to listen to anything else other than your own diseased mind.



Every other fighting game has clones.  Every single last one.

Good for those other fighting games. Also other fighters have 50+ characters as well, so your point? It is obvious you aren't willing to debate things and instead resort to name calling, so this is my last response to you. See in game design there are priorities, and it is a shame that the priority of Brawl wasn't on the fighters first and the extras second. Especially for fighters that people, you know, CARE ABOUT like Ganondorf who is from a popular series called Zelda and is right up there with Bowser.  I kept hearing the excuse about Melee and its tight deadline and how they wanted make characters like Ganondorf unique, so what do they do after 3 years of development? Why let's make him a clone again! Wonder what the excuse will be this time?  

[Strell]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Good for those other fighting games. Also other fighters have 50+ characters as well, so your point? It is obvious you aren't willing to debate things and instead resort to name calling, so this is my last response to you.

Lmao.

MAYBE 1-2 other fighting games have rosters that big, and those might be Capcom vs SNK and Capcom vs Marvel.

Which is a HORRID argument for you to make, since almost every single Capcom character controls the same, since they all have hadokens now.

Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Guilty Gear, Street Fighter...none of them have CLOSE to 50 character rosters, and NONE of them do not have clone characters.  They all do it.  I'm willing to bet they don't even have 25 unique characters in their rosters, but I'll go ahead and make it clear that such an assumption is just that - an assumption, since I barely pay attention to those fighters.

You're the one crying about how the development cycle was so painfully long and the developers are lazy, when in reality you don't know a damn thing about it at all.  I don't know it any better than you, but I'm definitely not arrogant and ignorant enough to start whining about how Sakurai completely screwed everything up, even long before the game has been touched by my hands.

Give it up already.  It's so annoying to have to listen to this kind of thing all the time.  You could either get your dream roster and enjoy another 6 months of delays, or have the game sooner.  Which is ironic when I consider that so many people have been so angry about the first 2 delays, and yet want more things to be added into the game.

 

[DAaaMan64]

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Originally posted by: Rachtman


Though, if a new Smash does get crafted in the future, maybe listening to the fans a little closer -- concerning character additions -- wouldn't be such a bad idea.  o_O

Come on you guys, you all sound like you haven't been Nintendo gamers for very long.  This is the exact kind of disappoint Nintendo has always always always done.

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Strell

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix

Good for those other fighting games. Also other fighters have 50+ characters as well, so your point? It is obvious you aren't willing to debate things and instead resort to name calling, so this is my last response to you.

Lmao.



MAYBE 1-2 other fighting games have rosters that big, and those might be Capcom vs SNK and Capcom vs Marvel.



Which is a HORRID argument for you to make, since almost every single Capcom character controls the same, since they all have hadokens now.



You're the one crying about how the development cycle was so painfully long and the developers are lazy, when in reality you don't know a damn thing about it at all.  I don't know it any better than you, but I'm definitely not arrogant and ignorant enough to start whining about how Sakurai completely screwed everything up, even long before the game has been touched by my hands.



Give it up already.  It's so annoying to have to listen to this kind of thing all the time.  You could either get your dream roster and enjoy another 6 months of delays, or have the game sooner.  Which is ironic when I consider that so many people have been so angry about the first 2 delays, and yet want more things to be added into the game.

When did I cry about the development cycle being too long? In fact I supported the delays besides this last one which made no sense. In fact I believe I stated I'd support a long delay to touch up things. Heck I don't even recall saying the developers were lazy, just that the implementation of the fighters was not the priority it should have been and was, yes a lazy implementation, and that these secret characters appear to be dumped in again like they were in Melee. Please stop making stupid assumptions about me when it is obvious you have no idea what I did or did not support. Take a chill pill, and maybe have a civil debate.

Also believe it or not, but most normal fighters are more complex when it comes to the character move sets, much more than Smash Brothers has ever been. So that gives them much more flexibility than the limited movesets for Smash Characters. All I know is that they had 3 years to work on Smash Brothers Brawl with a solid foundation in Melee, and they still can't have 35 unique characters. That shows me that Sakurai didn't have his priorities in order and focused on other things instead of finishing the roster before he put his efforts into other modes.

So please stop with your ridiculous straw man arguments, none of us are saying Sakurai screwed up the game, but that he really let down many of us by not putting more of his time into fine tuning the fighters with unique movesets and maybe replacing some of the lame characters like ROB that no one wanted as a fighter. This is supposedly Sakurai's last game, is it too much to ask that he makes a unique cast of fighters?  

[Bill Aurion]

I've been believing the roster for a while now, so the disappointment is long gone...Yeah I wish they didn't bring back Falco, and Wolf is the Pichu of Brawl, but I'm also pleased with Lucario and Toon Link...I'll live, and so will all of you... =)

Oh yeah, here's some unknown stages for everyone...

Mario stage - Mario Bros. Arcade
F-Zero stage - Port Town Aero Dive
Wind Waker stage - Tetra's Pirate Ship
Sonic stage - Green Hill Zone