Author Topic: Advanced Wars Series of Games (Read 32480 times)

Shecky · « **Reply #50 on:** October 18, 2007, 11:42:37 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
There's no way the transport heli and the transport ship can have the same moveclass as the APC.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the transport class.... in the past the APC was threads ("tank") the chopper was air and the lander was ship.

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Originally posted by: PartyBear
I agree that infantry units need tweaking. The bazookas in AW have always seemed too weak to me. I also wouldn't mind seeing infantry get more defense against big guns, as if they had dug in, to add another wrinkle to the strategy.

I'm not sure what to think of motorcycle infantry. I assume that means they can move a lot farther than regular infantry, which will speed up capturing. That just seems like something that could change the game drastically.

They're fine against normal tanks. It was with the introduction of the heavy tanks that make them seem slightly weak. They would just need a slight boost to compensate. I don't mind if it takes 4 platoons to sink the heaviest tank. If you build a single Mech that shouldn't be your "Army" you would be expected to build multiple, especially at the price.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #51 on:** October 18, 2007, 01:00:51 PM »

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Originally posted by: Shecky

They're fine against normal tanks. It was with the introduction of the heavy tanks that make them seem slightly weak. They would just need a slight boost to compensate. I don't mind if it takes 4 platoons to sink the heaviest tank. If you build a single Mech that shouldn't be your "Army" you would be expected to build multiple, especially at the price.

The problem is that they take so much damage from return fire that they quickly lose what effectiveness they have. Their movement is so low that you normally can't send many of them against the same target on the same turn, so the barely damaged heavy tank finishes them off on the following turn. The only reason they're better than light tanks in theory is that you can make them in greater numbers, but their short movement range nullifies most of that advantage. Although unless I'm mistaken, I think their bazookas are actually a bit stronger than the light tanks' guns.

Something else that might work is a tank destroyer unit. In the real world, there are lightly-armored vehicles with big, tank-killing guns on them. They're light, cheap, and can't stand up to much punishment. In AW terms, I picture what would basically be a recon with a missile launcher mounted on it instead of a machine gun. The idea is for it to be highly vulnerable (especially to infantry, since it can't attack them) in exchange for great enough firepower to deal with heavy tanks fairly cheaply. It gives infantry another job to do (mechs would simply tear these things to shreds) during the late game, and keeps the winning strategy from turning into "Spam Neo Tanks."

Shecky · « **Reply #52 on:** October 18, 2007, 02:15:53 PM »

The movement range is a bit problematic for mechs as it does make it hard to attack the same target with multiple units in a single turn. In addition, the secondary fire of tanks may benefit if it's toned down so that the return fire isn't quite as strong (shouldn't it be at an equal level as the infantry guns anyways?)

KDR_11k · « **Reply #53 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:55:03 PM »

Actually I think the transport boat has its own moveclass that can move on beaches.

Problem with swarming mechs is that you can only make one per turn and the micro gets annoying after a while since you can't give a long-term movement target and have to move each unit by hand.

Tank destroyers aren't used these days but ATGMs mounted on lighter vehicles, especially IFVs (armored troop carrier and combat vehicle), are common. They have low ammo but can do a lot of damage in a surprise attack. I'm not sure they can hurt an MBT in an open battle (i.e. when the MBT has time to turn towards the lighter vehicle) though. Real ATGM-carriers have machineguns as their main weapon but IRL vehicle MGs (or all MGs) aren't very effective when the infantry has cover, they can only hit well when the target is in the open but they can be used to pin infantry in their cover while allowing another infantry group to flank the enemy.

IIRC the light tank does 50% or so damage to an MBT, mechs only 25%. I wouldn't mind mechs being buffed and made more expensive, controlling loads of units in AW is just a PITA.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #54 on:** October 19, 2007, 04:57:52 AM »

I didn't want to get into military jargon, but this is what I had in mind for an AW anti-tank unit.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #55 on:** October 19, 2007, 06:06:58 PM »

Have you guys heard of Panzer Tactics DS? As I understand, it's going to be a lot like Advance Wars.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #56 on:** October 19, 2007, 06:10:55 PM »

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Originally posted by: vudu
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Originally posted by: PartyBear
I like the motorcycles, but it seems like they won't be significantly different from recons, which already have limited uses.
If by limited you mean can totally annihilate infantry then I'm inclined to agree with you.

So what do the new motorcycle units do? (i.e. what do they offer that current units don't already?)

I would guess they offer much greater mobility than an infantry unit, and unlike a recon unit they could probably also capture cities. Maybe they could also dismount and move into mountains or something... So I would guess they are similar to a loaded APC in most respects, but maybe cheaper.

Amodaus1 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 20, 2007, 10:32:56 AM »

Party Bear i think the infantry (and by infantry i mean mechs) is acctually quite good for their cost, at 3000 a pop you can make 2 mechs that would cost 1000 less than a tank, and would win 2v1 against that tank every time, even if the tank struck one of the units first. On top of that, mechs can get the mountain defense bonus, which is insane for them. They are also valid vs AA guns, 2 mechs is 2K cheaper than an AA, though they don't give you any air defense. Mechs are meant for base capture, rugged terrain movement (nothing impedes those 2 movement points they get, although 2 movement is pathetic, BUT its only pathetic for reinfocing an area, in the thick of combat in an urban/forest/ or mountainous area its enough) and light vehicular/ small tank/ and infantry combat. They can also be used for squating on a barracks/airpot/naval yard or suprise capture, but normal infantry are more effective for that.

What i think there needs to be is more infantry classes. maybe weak AA infantry, or a spy/sabatoge unit, maybe a demolition unit.

And about the tank killer, if they do make one, then what becomes of the ranged units? I think they'll lose a lot of effectiveness. Big tanks should only be fought with bigger tanks, or air, or range, at least from a balancing perspective. However, i didn't like the neo or mega tank editions, i think heavy tank and regular was all that was needed from the tank class.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #58 on:** October 20, 2007, 05:49:30 PM »

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Originally posted by: Amodaus1
Party Bear i think the infantry (and by infantry i mean mechs) is acctually quite good for their cost, at 3000 a pop you can make 2 mechs that would cost 1000 less than a tank, and would win 2v1 against that tank every time, even if the tank struck one of the units first. On top of that, mechs can get the mountain defense bonus, which is insane for them. They are also valid vs AA guns, 2 mechs is 2K cheaper than an AA, though they don't give you any air defense. Mechs are meant for base capture, rugged terrain movement (nothing impedes those 2 movement points they get, although 2 movement is pathetic, BUT its only pathetic for reinfocing an area, in the thick of combat in an urban/forest/ or mountainous area its enough) and light vehicular/ small tank/ and infantry combat. They can also be used for squating on a barracks/airpot/naval yard or suprise capture, but normal infantry are more effective for that.

What i think there needs to be is more infantry classes. maybe weak AA infantry, or a spy/sabatoge unit, maybe a demolition unit.

And about the tank killer, if they do make one, then what becomes of the ranged units? I think they'll lose a lot of effectiveness. Big tanks should only be fought with bigger tanks, or air, or range, at least from a balancing perspective. However, i didn't like the neo or mega tank editions, i think heavy tank and regular was all that was needed from the tank class.

Yeah, I agree there should be more infantry units. The game has many vehicular units, but just 2 infantry. They could include a parachuting infantry, but maybe they could just do that with standard infantry by requiring it to be standing on an airport or loaded into a plane or something. I could also see there being an elite infantry unit that would be extremely expensive, but also extremely powerful.

As for the tank destroyer, wouldn't that be a direct combat unit? Artillery still has its purpose, because a tank destroyer would have to get close to the tank, and it would also not be very effective against infantry at all.

Kairon · « **Reply #59 on:** October 20, 2007, 07:15:51 PM »

JET PACK INFANTRY.

You heard it here first.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #60 on:** October 20, 2007, 10:41:11 PM »

Mortar infantry. Like weak arty but can move like infantry.

The impressions list a flamer tank, can't think of a useful role for that. Sure, killing infantry but anything kills infantry.

Shecky · « **Reply #61 on:** October 21, 2007, 02:51:56 AM »

Ah ok, so I know what the flame tank is for. There is evidence of it in screen shots... notice a shot on IGN that has the HQ of a city with flames on each side of it. This is what I was calling a new terrain type ("Scorched Earth"), but I'm guessing that's actually the result of the flame tank. So the tank will likely act as a defensive measure against infantry for sure - disallowing access and perhaps even capable of attacking them. Not sure if heavier equipment such as tanks can pass through... my assumption would be that tanks and planes would be able to pass but not rest on top of the flames.

mottsc · « **Reply #62 on:** October 21, 2007, 03:57:02 AM »

Another use for a flame tank could be deforestation.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #63 on:** October 21, 2007, 04:22:51 AM »

Does there really need to be a special tank unit just to start fires? Even cavemen can start forest fires.

Amodaus1 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 21, 2007, 05:19:48 AM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Mortar infantry. Like weak arty but can move like infantry.

The impressions list a flamer tank, can't think of a useful role for that. Sure, killing infantry but anything kills infantry.

I like the mortar infantry idea, as for tank killer, there is already a direct combat tank killer its either a bigger tank or a bomber

KDR_11k · « **Reply #65 on:** October 22, 2007, 06:55:16 AM »

A tank killer would win (or at least do serious damage) if it gets first strike but annihilated if the tank shoots first. Though I really don't think a light antitank vehicle could fight an MBT (main battle tank, think M1 Abrams or Leopard 2), would be useful for quick anti-support strikes (e.g. run in, kill the arty, run away). Just using bigger tanks to kill tanks leads to "lulz bigga tanx!" spam.

I'd prefer WiC's napalm strike over a flametank.

vudu · « **Reply #66 on:** October 22, 2007, 07:10:06 AM »

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Originally posted by: Chozo Ghost
Even cavemen can start forest fires.

Yes, but only I can prevent them.

Shecky · « **Reply #67 on:** October 22, 2007, 02:19:58 PM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Just using bigger tanks to kill tanks leads to "lulz bigga tanx!" spam.

If your opponent can afford to purchase that many large tanks there's nothing wrong with that.... and there are more than enough units that can attack a tank.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #68 on:** October 22, 2007, 11:05:16 PM »

On the topic of infantry, if you're going to introduce a flame thrower tank then you may as well introduce a flamethrower infantry unit as well. Flame throwers were used by the U.S. Marines in the Pacific theatre to root the Japanese out of caves and so on.

You know, I didn't think it made much sense at first but I can see it now. The flamethrower units can destroy the defensive bonus units get when stationed in forests, and perhaps in mountains too. That forest isn't much good to you when it is burning all around you...

18 Days · « **Reply #69 on:** October 24, 2007, 04:44:22 AM »

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A tank killer would win

It's called the Combat Helicopter

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I could also see there being an elite infantry unit that would be extremely expensive, but also extremely powerful.

Sniper. Indirect fire infantry that more or less OHKOs other infantry and little else. Extra vision in fog or war or faster movement in forests would be cool too.

UltimatePartyBear · « **Reply #70 on:** October 24, 2007, 05:36:25 AM »

Snipers don't move fast, they go slow so you can't see them.

Chozo Ghost · « **Reply #71 on:** October 24, 2007, 07:57:25 PM »

Aren't snipers just a single person? The infantry and tank units you see on the map aren't individuals, but units made up of numerous individuals. As proof of this, check out the battles and unless a unit is 1 in strength you see more than one take part in the fighting. Also, when you capture cities I think that is the work of more than a single man... lol.

So while snipers are used in combat, I don't think you have units of them, though I could be wrong on that... I think they just serve as a part of an infantry unit rather than a separate thing. I'm pretty sure the same is true of Mortar rounds. There aren't special mortar infantry units, but mortars are portable weapons that infantry units are likely to possess.

But then again, Advance Wars takes place in a fantasy universe so there's no real point in nitpicking any of it.

Shecky · « **Reply #72 on:** October 25, 2007, 02:49:12 PM »

I think snipers were made up.... so.... (no where do I see confirmation that they exist outside of forum imagination

)

Shecky · « **Reply #73 on:** January 05, 2008, 06:46:24 AM »

Game looks to be shaping up quite well.... it releases in a little more than two weeks from now.

Sounds like you can revisit any past campaign missions which is a first for the hand held series, and of course the war room is back as well.

Sounds like fog of war may always be in effect for the campaign mode as well (and assuming enemies are at least as smart and fair as they were in the first DS version, that shouldn't be a problem)

Edit: Also added anti-tank units to the list of ground forces in the main post, as well as info on the two new air units.

Kairon · « **Reply #74 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:19:44 AM »

Don't snipers work in threes?

Anyways, I'll convince my younger bro to buy this.

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Author Topic: Advanced Wars Series of Games (Read 32480 times)