Author Topic: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo  (Read 19280 times)

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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2007, 04:13:56 PM »
Oh, I've been speaking of gaming Doomsday II since maybe three or four years ago, when after I read Game Over.  I saw far too many similarities to games in the late '70's and early '80's to games that are being made now, when looking past the graphics perspective.  That's probably a major part of the reason why I'm heavily supporting Nintendo, more than I have before.  I think that they can keep video games alive, where sales would flop the way the market was heading.  Nintendo, to me, seems like the only hope the gaming future has.  But that's my market speculation.

Offline King of Twitch

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2007, 04:22:21 PM »
Why did they take out the bumper car aspect of FZero? That part made it unique.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2007, 04:25:14 PM »
FE Wii has sold remarkably well considering its niche status and low Wii user base, and compared against RECENT FE games, it's quite respectable.

Thatguy, do you think that Nintendo will have possibly saved the videogame industry TWICE by the time this is over?

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Offline Kairon

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2007, 04:26:26 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: MJRx9000
Why did they take out the bumper car aspect of FZero? That part made it unique.


OMG QFT!!! I forgot all about that aspect! Leave it to Nintendo and Miyamoto to insert bumper car mechanics into a high-tech sci-fi "mature" IP.

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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2007, 04:54:47 PM »
Well, we know they saved it once, at least in America, and now they're keeping it from dying in Japan, but really, going the route of the PS3 and 360, where would games go?  They'd get bigger and bigger, cost more and more, ceasing to grow in new content, and eventually, for the developers involved, costs will rise far beyond returns, and sales will drop, because there are too many too similar game experiences.  Already, we're beginning to see demand for licensed games rise, compared to what it is, and performance of the same games are being rated lower and lower.  Most gameplay today is already a rehash of what's been done before.

There's not a place for an old fashioned home console anymore.  People already had one of those.  The graphics were great whenever a developer actually put in effort last generation.  If I buy a 360 or a PS3,  I'm going to pay ten more dollars a game for a marginal difference in graphics.  Let's say I'm an uneducated, semi-casual gamer, which I would consider the largest portion of gamers that actively purchase console games.  I play Madden, Halo, and other frathouse games.  I've recently bought a PS3, the "most powerful" game machine out there.  And then I bought Spider-Man 3.  I liked the movie, and think that the game would be a fun extension.  I play the game, it sucks, and I decide that I've wasted at least 660 dollars, noting that I could have bought the same thing, only slightly less pretty, for my PS2.  Only I don't, because I've realized that I've already got all the gameplay experience I want in the last gen.

Let's say I'm an middle-aged woman gamer.  Another majority in gaming, apparently.  I've got my MMORPG capable computer, along with bejeweled.  What else do I need?  I've got everything I enjoy playing right there.

Let's say I'm a hardcore gaming "nerd."  What's out there to appeal to me?  RPG's?  I'm better off with a PS2.  Shooters?  PC shooting is really the best type, what with free online gaming and the accuracy a mouse and a keyboard offers.  What does a new generation have to offer that I don't already have?

Those three seem to be the most common situation right now to me.  People are either growing tired with the same thing, only prettier with worse control than what they had previously, or they are satisfied with the hardware and software of the last generation of game machines, when they think about it.  This is pretty close to what happened then, from my reading.  Though I wasn't alive at the time, I think we all know the story of how ET is an icon of the death of the very first breed of video games - All the games were rip-off of the originals and developers made lousy games of franchises, because they thought it was easy.  Then, we saw maze games, all spinning off from Pac-Man.  This time, we see GTA-style knock-offs and cookie-cutter FPSes, still bringing nothing new, but slapping a franchise on to it, with many bugs and glitches.  More and more of these games are being produced, but their sales are beginning to drop, because people realize each game offers the same experience as the last, with nothing new.

In comes Nintendo, with the Wii.  Offering innovation, among other things, also, once again making a system that families enjoy sitting around.  Sure, there are FPSes, and sure, there are free-roamers, but there is also Trauma Center.  There's new revival in racing games, offering an arcade feel at home.  There's more opportunity here for allowing people to experience the game, rather than just playing it.  I think given all of this, if the Wii doesn't succeed in revitalizing and expanding the market, gaming's future will be in trouble.

Feel free to disagree, though.  I'd love to hear different perceptions and opinions, especially since we all see how successful most analysts, and this is just an analysis.  As far as I know, the best way to tell where gaming is going is to see where gaming has gone before, which is something most analysts don't do, so hopefully you'll find me more insightful than all of them.

Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2007, 05:05:44 PM »
God what I WOULDN'T GIVE for an "Operation" Game with a dedicated multiplayer mode... *drool*

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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2007, 05:10:26 PM »
That would be awesome.  Zelda Four Sword Easy Operation

I wonder how that would work...

Offline Galford

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2007, 06:07:30 PM »
After reading that interview I got a lot of flashbacks of the "Jet Alone" episode of Evangelion.
Am I the only one?

The only thing that interview confirmed is Nintendo has a very Japan centric view of it's gaming business, nothing new there.

That guy, do you really Nintendo is going to save the video game world with it's endless flow of mini games?

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Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2007, 06:22:04 PM »
To the contrary, Nintendo is striking me more and more as non-Japanese...

What makes you think that they've got a Japan centric view of gaming Galford? If such was the case, I'd think we'd be seeing a hell of a lot more RPGs and a hell of a lot less success for Nintendogs in the global market. This is just Miyamoto talking... I guess you could call him "Miyamoto-centric" but that's not much of an accusation now is it?

If anything, the only charge we can level at Nintendo is that they are very individual and very resistant to the "conventional" wisdom... almost... UN-Japanese...

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A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2007, 06:36:08 PM »
They need to make Zelda Pinball, Zelda Party, and Zelda Baseball, those will revive the franchise!
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2007, 06:53:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Galford
After reading that interview I got a lot of flashbacks of the "Jet Alone" episode of Evangelion.
Am I the only one?

The only thing that interview confirmed is Nintendo has a very Japan centric view of it's gaming business, nothing new there.

That guy, do you really Nintendo is going to save the video game world with it's endless flow of mini games?


It depends on whether or not you consider games like Chibi-Robo, Nintendogs, Super Mario Galaxy, Day of Disaster, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Trauma Center, Dewey, Mario Strikers: Charged, Battalion Wars 2, Project Hammer, the Zelda Franchise, Fire Emblem, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, and several others are mini-games.  Of, I forgot Super Paper Mario, along with Dragon Quest Swords, and other upcoming games, just remember that Nintendo isn't the only company supporting the Wii and ideas behind it.

Of course, the fact that my parents share a copy of Brain Age and Big Brain Academy also says that Nintendo is doing something right with their so-called minigames.
The fact that bars have Wii-nights, where people can go and play the Wii in a community setting also supports my idea.  The fact that Nintendo has sold out Wii's faster than any console has ever sold before supports me, as well.  Are you just disagreeing to disagree, or would you like to add to the discussion?


Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2007, 07:27:26 PM »
Quite frankly I don't believe his comment about Halo. Japanese devs don't seem to learn from advancements in western games (especially visible in RTS games) so I'd expect Nintendo to make some mistake in Halo that Bungie knew to avoid.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2007, 08:17:44 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Quite frankly I don't believe his comment about Halo. Japanese devs don't seem to learn from advancements in western games (especially visible in RTS games) so I'd expect Nintendo to make some mistake in Halo that Bungie knew to avoid.


Yeah like make the mistake of creating a generic retread of an already established genre on the PC. Oh wait, nevermind.
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Offline Galford

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2007, 08:40:24 PM »
That gut I'm not trying to insult you or your parents, but lets face it Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore demographic and replaced it with games whose gameplay was state of the art on the Atari 2600.  If an endless flow of mini-games is Nintendo's answer to "saving" the game industry I would much prefer to see it die then go on in this direction.  

I know I'm the odd man out, but I everytime Nintendo opens it's mouth I get the idea they don't care about the hardcore gamer which supported them for 20 years.
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2007, 08:48:17 PM »
My response is the list I posted of upcoming games.  I don't see that as Nintendo abandoning the hardcore gamer.  I see that as the opposite.  There are only a few "mini-game" compilations in comparison to the number of "harcore" games.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2007, 11:17:47 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Galford
That gut I'm not trying to insult you or your parents, but lets face it Nintendo has abandoned the hardcore demographic and replaced it with games whose gameplay was state of the art on the Atari 2600.  If an endless flow of mini-games is Nintendo's answer to "saving" the game industry I would much prefer to see it die then go on in this direction.  

I know I'm the odd man out, but I everytime Nintendo opens it's mouth I get the idea they don't care about the hardcore gamer which supported them for 20 years.


Where all these Atari like games? I am seeing everything from Zelda: TP to Excite Truck to WarioWare to Mario Galaxy to Metroid Prime 3 to Battalion Wars 2 to much more. So I think you are exaggerating quite a bit, Nintendo has had quite a diversified lineup.

Wii so far:
Super Paper Mario
Zelda: TP
Excite Truck
Wii Sports
WarioWare
Wii Play (If you want to consider this a full blown game I guess you can)

That is half and half so far if you want to include Wii Sports and Wii Play in that list. Sounds pretty rounded to me when it comes to games that are mini games vs other games. Not to mention that WarioWare was quite innovative when it was released during the GBA era, and if I remember correctly that was LONG after Atari.
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Offline odifiend

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2007, 01:40:03 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: UncleBob
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think I really liked the Halo answer.  

It just was a casual offhand remark:  Yeah I could make that but it doesn't interest me.


I wasn't pleased with his Halo answer.  It sounds like something a kid would say "I could do that!" "Then do it!" "Naw, I don't want to."
It'd be like me saying that I could bag Lisa Loeb, if I wanted to.


The way I read this was that any idiot sees that a Halo type game would be popular and what gamers want.  Miyamoto doesn't design games around what gamers initially want.
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Offline BigJim

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2007, 02:31:33 AM »
"I think a lot of people who bought the Wii are not necessarily the types of people who are interested in playing that kind of game."

Finally an official acknowledgement that it's not the "system for everybody/everything" that some fanboys insisted it was. This doesn't bode well for gamers down the line. They should definitely consider a second system to get their fix.


"But mostly, I think it's that there are fewer and fewer people who are interested in playing a big role-playing game like Zelda."

I don't think I agree with this. If the audience is smaller, it is not to the point where there's only lukewarm interest. What they either don't acknowledge or don't want to admit is that the problem isn't disinterest in epics. The problem is the increasing disinterest in Nintendo's rinse-and-repeat IPs. They shouldn't focus on "the next Zelda" or "the next Metroid." They need to create the FIRST [insert new epic here].  
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2007, 02:32:52 AM »
I'm surprised me talked smack about F-Zero. Unless he's talking about one of the portable ones or something.

Offline Ceric

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2007, 04:52:16 AM »
I like some change in Zelda.  I also believe that the Wii is doing good things and that we really won't know Nintendos focus till next years release list.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2007, 06:41:51 AM »
"I don't think I agree with this. If the audience is smaller, it is not to the point where there's only lukewarm interest. What they either don't acknowledge or don't want to admit is that the problem isn't disinterest in epics. The problem is the increasing disinterest in Nintendo's rinse-and-repeat IPs. They shouldn't focus on 'the next Zelda' or 'the next Metroid.' They need to create the FIRST [insert new epic here]."

I think this a great point.  One thing I've really noticed with this blue strategy stuff is that Nintendo too often is confusing "hardcore gamer" as meaning "someone who just wants the same old".  The new Nintendo IP's lately have mostly been non-gamer focused stuff like Nintendogs, WiiSports and Brain Age.  And then when Nintendo (or anyone for that matter) lists off the "gamer game" titles it's mostly a big list of sequels.  Nintendo talks about how gaming as is has gotten stagnant but doesn't acknowledge that all their unessential Mario spinoff product has contributed to that.  And they aren't doing anything to fix that.  Their creative energy is being used to target a new group of customers while their same old IPs are going to the traditional gamers.  They aren't making much effort to get this old group interested again, just to get the new group in.  They think everyone got bored of the same old stuff that THEY are creating because we're bored with games but that's not necessarily the correct conclusion.  The sales may be slipping because those old IPs are stale and Nintendo is making no effort to make new ones.  Part of the success of Nintendo's non-games may be less because of how they're designed but more because they're just something different and people want something new.

Though Nintendo may actually believe that the reason they're making all these sequels and why everyone is making so much cookie-cutter stuff is because there are no more ideas for gaming as is.  I think that's bullsh!t.  The true company that "saves" gaming will be the company that proves Nintendo wrong and innovates without resorting to g!mmicks.

Offline Ceric

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2007, 06:51:28 AM »
By that philosophy I beleive that the VC will really bring this to light and bite Nintendo to create new "core" genre series.
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Offline Kairon

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2007, 06:58:45 AM »
Given that new IP's have a success rate of LESS THAN 10% in the traditional gaming market... I'd think it's safe to assume that most traditional gamers want more of the same.

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Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline that Baby guy

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2007, 07:21:00 AM »
Kairon's right.  Would most of us had bought Power Tennis if Mario's name wasn't in front?  Same with Mario Golf.  Maybe Mario Kart would never have gotten off the ground if Mario and friends hadn't been the ones driving.  I don't mind them abusing a license like this, so long as the games are good.  Overall, I have to say that it's been better that they stick Mario in several new IP's.

But don't say that Nintendo is creating new franchises left and right.  Disaster: Day of Crisis, Project Hammer, the Wii [insert whatever we do here] games have also been successful.  Chibi-Robo is also a highly praised newer IP.  Nintendo isn't shorting players out of fresh intellectual property.

Offline Ceric

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RE: Miyamoto Discusses Zelda in Japan, Making Halo
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2007, 08:28:36 AM »
I bought Power Tennis because my Virtual Boy came with Mario Tennis.  Which I thoroughly enjoyed and was told many times that this was one of the best tennis games in the series and it was made by Camelot.  Once I got it I found it to be terrible compared to the original and, after Strikers, proceed to swear off Mario sport games because they hypnotize people into thinking they are good and it doesn't seem to work on me.
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