Author Topic: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation  (Read 12442 times)

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Offline MegaByte

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Aaron Kaluszka
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Offline Caterkiller

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 09:39:09 AM »
Wow... These presentations are so interesting! I really feel like I know what they are going through when they try to reach their goals.

Remember we got some fake info about Zelda and Brawl some months ago and it detailed how we would fight and swing our sword in 1st person? Now it doesn't seem so far off. Except that interview made it seem as though the 1st person experience was like no other in terms of good quality.

Fantastic read!
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Offline MegaByte

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 09:39:38 AM »
I just wanted to say that Aonuma vindicated Evan and my Zelda E3 impressions.

Quote

The controls we as developers had decided to implement in Zelda were ones that we had forced into the game in order to take advantage of the Wii controls. I had realized that I hadn’t worried about making it easy to understand and intuitive and making people want to play the game; all those things relate. The feeling that I had that people would have to get used to the controls when working on switching controls over to the Wii was evidence of this, and I realized that I was forcing these controls onto the user. It wasn’t a Zelda that would have been received well by the end user. I felt as though Zelda had been left behind by the other launch titles, and having hit rock-bottom, Miyamoto and I began rethinking the Wii controls completely.
 
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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 09:43:39 AM »
Quite a speech!  Pretty long, but it's very informative.  I like the way the Phantom Hourglass is shaping up.  It looks nice, and I'm glad they were able to keep the Wind Waker style, especially since thats what Aonuma seems to have wanted.

Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2007, 10:09:21 AM »
That was an awesome speech, it is pretty amazing to see how much hard work was put into TP and the hard decisions that had to be made. SHould be exciting to see what they do with the next Zelda that is built from the ground up for Wii! Phantom Hourglass is looking quite cool, though I hope the touch controls end up feeling good, and not sloppy (I got that feeling with Star Fox DS), nothing I hate more than controls that detract from the experience when more traditional controls would have worked perfectly.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2007, 10:12:03 AM »
Very cool.  Both his and Miyamoto's were good.
I especially liked the story at the end, and how the kid didn't want to leave the village in the beginning of the game.  I was a lot like that when I was a kid, too.  I still am, in a way.  Obviously I'm not afraid of monsters, and I'm plenty good at even the hardest parts of games, but I still love running around the town centers and peaceful areas of games (towns in Zelda, the square in Mario Sunshine, etc).
Thanks for this, I enjoyed it.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2007, 10:15:01 AM »
Personally I think this speech steals the show, it is what the GDC is about, developers sharing their experiences. It is meant as learning conference, and sharing their creations in order to help advise other developers.  
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Offline mantidor

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2007, 02:06:43 PM »
Nice presentation, and it made me feel for Aonuma and how bad he felt at the bad reception of the Wind waker. But I still cannot understand in TP how left handed Link wasn't intuitive but random swing directions representing random directions on screen is a non-issue, as Aonuma said himself, the player isn't concerned about those details. I guess they'll make it an option in the next game, since they really believe handedness affects the gameplay, and I assume hope they don't want to alienate lefties.

And Phatom Hourglass looks really awesome.





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Offline Smoke39

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2007, 02:45:24 PM »
Quote

This might seem trivial, but the act of shaking the remote is a control that the player physically experiences, and if it doesn’t match up with what is happening on the screen, then it becomes something that has no effect at all, and ultimately this becomes something that is considered extraneous control.


So naturally they merely map "remote shake" to "B" rather than acknowledge direction.  Sounds pretty ineffective and extraneous to me.
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Offline Djunknown

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2007, 03:05:44 PM »
Quote

we announced that the North American version, which was released at the beginning of the same year, had sold up to a million copies. But the truth of the matter was that the game did not fare as well in Japan


Chalk that up to Gamestop's pre-order incentive of getting OoT. They had 400k pre-orders or so, plus 600k, Wind Waker made it to platinum status in no time. This happened in the magical month of 2003, when the SP was introduced, along with the new iterations of Pokemon. They closed out their fiscal year with a bang.

about connectivity:
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It was too difficult to convince the consumer that they wanted to play the game.


Can't speak for Japan, but add to the fact that online play in North America was becoming standardized, and cheaper in comparison to connectivity, Nintendo lost out *Cue Penny-Arcade strip from the peanut gallery*. I enjoyed the hell out of Crystal Chronicles, but couldn't get other people to play with it. But they were inviting me to throw down on Xbox Live and PS2 games.

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That’s when I decided that if we didn’t have an effective and immediate solution, the only thing we could do was to give the healthy North American market the Zelda that they wanted.


Good call. Double good call that Miyamoto and the higher-ups didn't fight this. Triple good call for having Reggie make his appearance in 2k4, presenting this.

Zelda's getting another multiplayer player portion (with online no-less), and no one's complaining about it straying from the franchise. Yet when there's talk/wishing of Metroid having multiplayer, people start bitching left and right about not being true to its roots [/hypocrisy].

Quote

“This direct control is exactly what Twilight Princess needs in order to penetrate a market experiencing gamer drift."


A)Call me a crazy codger, but I find hard to believe that having two versions of Zelda was thought of from the top down, as opposed from the higher ups. The theory that the 'Cube was on its deathbed, and the Wii needed a surefire hit makes more sense than what Aonuma spouted off.

B)I know he talked about his son got into Zelda (with a little assistance from his wife), but the only thing that newbie friendly was the controls. Otherwise, it was your typical Zelda, puzzles and all. Not very non-gamer friendly.

Quoted from the slide:
"If Zelda can be played on both Wii and the Gamecube, won't users be happy even though they have to wait until 2006?"
*Cue Mantidor and Co.*

Quoted from another slide:
"You need to get used to the Wii controls. Players can't do that with a show floor demo."

Game reviewers should have that taped to their TV when reviewing Wii games what I just bolded.

His retrospective on TP in general hearkens back to his GDC 2k4 phrase "Reality over realism." His explanation of sword controls exemplifies this.

Quote

However, in comparison, sales figures were not what I had been hoping for in Japan, and so I believe that many users still have the impression that Zelda was too complicated and therefore too hard to play.


Wii Sports. 'Nuff said.

Overall, its good to hear from Aonuma (via Bill Trinen). With TP, he's shown that he can handle the Zelda franchise, with a little bit of Miyamoto's 'Upending the tea table' tactic.  If Zelda DS has an online multiplayer portion, why not the next Wii version? If they're re-writing the rules of Zelda, anything is possible. Nothing should be ruled out.

EDIT:some spelling and grammatical fixes.
Ma ma sa, ma ma coo sa
Ma ma se, ma ma sa,
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Offline MegaByte

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2007, 04:53:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Djunknown

Quoted from another slide:
"You need to get used to the Wii controls. Players can't do that with a show floor demo."

Game reviewers should have that taped to their TV when reviewing Wii games what I just bolded.

Should we?  He made the point that that type of attitude was wrong to have as a developer.

Quote

Originally posted by: Djunknown

Overall, its good to hear from Aonuma (via Bill Trinen).

Oh, Bill Trinen didn't do the translating, he just introduced him.

 
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Offline mantidor

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2007, 05:23:12 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Djunknown


Zelda's getting another multiplayer player portion (with online no-less), and no one's complaining about it straying from the franchise. Yet when there's talk/wishing of Metroid having multiplayer, people start bitching left and right about not being true to its roots [/hypocrisy].




Metroid and Zelda are very different, I don't think you can compare them like that, Metroid is much more based on mood, but if Nintendo aproaches multiplayer like they are aproaching it for Phantom Hourglass I wouldn't mind, they just really need to stay away from Hunter's ideas as much as possible.

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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 04:48:47 AM »
I find it really interesting that Nintendo actually realized that Wind Waker's style hurt sales.  Obviously they must have considering Twilight Princess looks like it does but actually hearing Aonuma say that publicly is very different than what Nintendo usually is like.  They realize why Four Swords Adventure didn't sell either (which is too bad because it was awesome).  Here Nintendo is not only acknowledging that something didn't really work but actually understanding exactly WHY it didn't work.

Though I don't like the attitude about Zelda being more accessible because even with gamers I never really saw Zelda as having that same universal appeal that something like Mario has.  Since the first game came out I have met people who play action games, fighting games, first person shooters, racing games and sports games that don't really get Zelda.  Zelda is quite complex.  It's a thinking man's game.  It doesn't have set levels.  In the 2D days most games involved going from left to right without getting killed.  Zelda gave you a whole world to explore with no set boundaries.  Hell the first Zelda is intimidating even to people who like Zelda games because it gives no indication of where to go and what to do.  So making it more accessible seems counter-intuitive.  This isn't a series that's for everybody and it never was.  And the controls were never even the issue.  It is not widely accessible because of the core game design.  Change that and it isn't even Zelda anymore.

Metroid is the same thing.  Would it make even the slightest bit of sense to make a non-gamer friendly "for everybody" Metroid?  No.  To make Metroid for everyone means no difficulty, no backtracking, no figuring out where to go on your own, no hidden areas that have to be found to beat the game.  In other words nothing that makes Metroid what it is could stay in.

Phantom Hourglass looks cool but its controls look like the most blantant forced touchscreen usage yet.  And it's all for nothing because any "everyone" Zelda game would be boring as all hell for any Zelda fan and Zelda at its core desing is too complicated to have true mass appeal.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2007, 07:11:13 AM »
The one thing which stands out about all this is how much Japan seems to be drifting away from gaming.

I'm not sure if Nintendo is just saying this to try and make it sound like the blue ocean strategy is necessary, but it sounds like gaming is genuinely declining (or was until the DS showed up).

From the numbers we've seen, the non-game types are definitely better sellers than the regular gamer games so I've no reason to not believe Nintendo's statements on this matter.
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Offline Ian Sane

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2007, 09:12:35 AM »
"The one thing which stands out about all this is how much Japan seems to be drifting away from gaming."

I find it quite ironic that Japan was largely responsible for most of my favourite games and thus for getting me interested in gaming in the first place, and now has shifted Nintendo's focus and is making me lose interest in gaming.

The whole thing is incredibly illogical.  North American publishers have the reputation for making the same sports games every year and crappy licenced games and bland, uninteresting sludge.  Hell some American publishers almost seem to base their whole business on tricking people into buying crap.  If any market was to drift away it seemed like the North American one would be it after getting bored of EA's bullsh!t.  Japanese publishers in comparison have traditionally been more consistent in terms of quality and known for being more creative and original.  Maybe since we're outside of Japan we just don't get all the crap.  Though it's probably all the damn RPGs.

But then Japan likes anime so obviously something has always been a little "off" over there.  

Offline SixthAngel

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2007, 10:24:47 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane

Though I don't like the attitude about Zelda being more accessible because even with gamers I never really saw Zelda as having that same universal appeal that something like Mario has.  Since the first game came out I have met people who play action games, fighting games, first person shooters, racing games and sports games that don't really get Zelda.  Zelda is quite complex.  It's a thinking man's game.  It doesn't have set levels.  In the 2D days most games involved going from left to right without getting killed.  Zelda gave you a whole world to explore with no set boundaries.  Hell the first Zelda is intimidating even to people who like Zelda games because it gives no indication of where to go and what to do.  So making it more accessible seems counter-intuitive.  This isn't a series that's for everybody and it never was.  And the controls were never even the issue.  It is not widely accessible because of the core game design.  Change that and it isn't even Zelda anymore.


Thinking has never been the problem with bringing in gamers or losing them.  One of Nintendo's biggest sellers is Brain Training, they certainly aren't trying to shy away from thinking.  The orginal zelda was a hit with many people who just started playing games (me, my adult neighbors) despite having little to no direction.  There is no reason the Zelda's of today that actually gives directions should scare besides the controls.

Nintendo is saying that controls detract not any part of the actual game.  There are tons of menus and buttons and items that need to be mapped to said buttons.  Simple controls will help.


Offline IceCold

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2007, 10:29:38 AM »
I'm interested in that Wii train game..
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Offline Kairon

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2007, 10:43:22 AM »
Is that Final Furlong? We're not getting Final Furlong?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2007, 10:52:33 AM »
G.I. Jo......ckey.

Nice name, maybe there isn't something I understand about it?

Offline KDR_11k

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2007, 07:18:07 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
I'm interested in that Wii train game..


That's Densha de Go, looking at the screenshots I can't help but think that it needs HDR (or at least a lightmap that causes similar contrast differences). It looks very close but the olde standard lighting system hurts the realism a lot.

Though if you want a train simulator you should look into the PC section of your game stores, while I heard that train simulators aren't big in the US our shelves here are so full of them that at least one or two have to be on yours, too.

Offline Kairon

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2007, 04:59:19 AM »
*sigh* I still don't trust Aonouma with Zelda. Reading that makes me appreciate how much trouble Nintendo is having with the franchise, and just how far they still have to go in order to be independent of Miyamoto.

Nintendo, hire me! I can do it! I've been training all my life to be chibi-moto!

Oh, and that trailer finally sold me on PH whereas before I was a big EH.

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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2007, 09:24:10 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
*sigh* I still don't trust Aonouma with Zelda. Reading that makes me appreciate how much trouble Nintendo is having with the franchise, and just how far they still have to go in order to be independent of Miyamoto.

Nintendo, hire me! I can do it! I've been training all my life to be chibi-moto!

Oh, and that trailer finally sold me on PH whereas before I was a big EH.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
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I have complete faith in Aonouma he has yet to make a bad Zelda game and has in fact created two of my favorites, TP and WW. With that said I'm not sure about Phatom Hourglass because of the touch controls!
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Offline IceCold

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2007, 01:58:33 PM »
Why? It's about time 2D (or in this case partly 2D) handheld Zeldas move forward. The Capcom ones were okay, but they were basically cut-and-dry Zelda games. Four Swords Adventures was fun, but I'm very excited with a brand new control scheme for PH to keep things fresh.
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Offline Smoke39

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RE: SPECIAL: Eiji Aonuma's GDC 2007 Presentation
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2007, 02:42:54 PM »
I don't see the benefit of the touch controls at all.  Imagine playing Super Mario 64 similar carrot-on-a-string controls.  It would be a mess.  Of course, it would be much more awkward in SM64 than in a 2D Zelda game, but to me they both seem equally frivolous.
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