Topic: EDITORIALS: The State of Nintendo Online

[Pale]

The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret.  It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series.  meh.

Anyway, I think there is a good shot we will see Pokemon in May, as the DS games are coming out in April.  That could set up for a BWii / Charged fall in which to officially launch the online service, if you know what I mean.

[Shecky]

Next time someone interviews a developer (maybe GDC) why not ask them the right questions:

1) Do your Wii hardware development kits physically have wireless connectivity?
 a) Why yes, we do
 b) Why no, we don't our dev kit is
   b.1) Still a modified GCN
   b.2) A early Wii kit with no wireless

2) Does the software development kit (SDK) contain network socket libraries?
 a) Huh?
 b) Yes they do.
 c) No they do not.
 d) We wrote our own.

3) Does the SDK have libraries that work with "WiiConnect24" (Nintendo's centralized account and community)
 a) Yes
 b) No
 c) We wrote our own.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret.  It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series.  meh.

Anyway, I think there is a good shot we will see Pokemon in May, as the DS games are coming out in April.  That could set up for a BWii / Charged fall in which to officially launch the online service, if you know what I mean.

That would be ideal and acceptable.  I really think that the DS Pokemon and the Wii one should release as a package here.

[ShyGuy]

Yeah, Ask the questions! You tell 'em Shecky!

[TrueNerd]

My coworker said the other day that he read on the internetz that Nintendo's gunna have dedicated servers for Smash Bros and blow JunkBox Live out of the water.  

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret.  It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series.  meh..

It's not that they haven't talked about it, it's that they've actually said they're keeping it under wraps.

Initially, they wanted no multplayer...

Quote
May 2006
IGN Wii: Will Metroid Prime 3 feature an online mode?

Kensuke Tanabe: No, we have only single-player. I have also produced Prime Hunters and for that game I tried to use the Wi-Fi Connection for multiplayer. For Prime 3, I would like to concentrate more on the single-player so I decided not to implement multiplayer for Prime 3. As you know, Wii will have Connect 24, so we are thinking more about the possibility of using that functionality so that the player can get something.

But that has since changed...

From Wiki...

Quote
It has been stated in a Nintendo Power interview with Retro Studios that Metroid Prime 3: Corruption may in fact have multiplayer, but "not in the same context as Echoes." The game's delay seems to support this information and has opened up the frequently mentioned possibility for online play. It should also be noted that this could also result in multiple new modes of multiplayer along with a new scoring system.

It makes the most sense for the long delay that we've seen in the release of the game. Had it really been ready to go at launch but was delayed to space out releases, we'd have it earlier than post-March.

It doesn't guarantee online, but they went from not wanting to have multiplayer to wanting it in some form.

Co-op? That would kick substantial ass...  

[trip1eX]

Am I the only that doesn't care about online with the Wii?

I guess I have a pc though and don't really expect much from Nintendo.  

Also I guess I picture all the quitters, bad online implementations, typical online lag and the cheaters and .... well it be mostly regulated to playing with a friend or two and not very often at that.  We'll see.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
The fact that Retro/Nintendo have not talked about multiplayer in Metroid doesn't mean it's a big secret.  It could just mean they realized (after two relative failures) that multiplayer in Metroid doesn't fit with the series.  meh..

It's not that they haven't talked about it, it's that they've actually said they're keeping it under wraps.

Initially, they wanted no multplayer...

Quote
May 2006
IGN Wii: Will Metroid Prime 3 feature an online mode?

Kensuke Tanabe: No, we have only single-player. I have also produced Prime Hunters and for that game I tried to use the Wi-Fi Connection for multiplayer. For Prime 3, I would like to concentrate more on the single-player so I decided not to implement multiplayer for Prime 3. As you know, Wii will have Connect 24, so we are thinking more about the possibility of using that functionality so that the player can get something.

But that has since changed...

From Wiki...

Quote
It has been stated in a Nintendo Power interview with Retro Studios that Metroid Prime 3: Corruption may in fact have multiplayer, but "not in the same context as Echoes." The game's delay seems to support this information and has opened up the frequently mentioned possibility for online play. It should also be noted that this could also result in multiple new modes of multiplayer along with a new scoring system.

It makes the most sense for the long delay that we've seen in the release of the game. Had it really been ready to go at launch but was delayed to space out releases, we'd have it earlier than post-March.

It doesn't guarantee online, but they went from not wanting to have multiplayer to wanting it in some form.

Co-op? That would kick substantial ass...

You know I thought about it more.  Though I would like the Samus aspect of the game to be single player only.  Though you know what would really kick it would be if Co-op would be a new Bounty Hunter Duo.  You would go through the game differently as them.  Just to make sure everyone can play through that part of the story as well; you could unlock them for single player once you beat the game with Samus.  You could choice which of the Duo you want to play as and switch between them as needed.  The computer would control the other.  To make it even more interesting from your run through as Samus there would be some data saved and if you happen on one of the overlapping areas that you did with Samus then there would be some change in the area.

What would make that even more interesting would be if you actually have someone to do Co-op with then Vice-versa would happen.  Another perspective would be nice and fresh in the series.

[Pittbboi]

To everyone saying "Wait until 2008" and "Nintendo's shipped online dev kits so shut up". Ever hear of the concept of a deadline? I know it's something Nintendo doesn't really like to commit itself to, but within the actual realm of game development, these are very important.

Just because Nintendo just now shipped dev kits doesn't mean we're going to be seeing online games in the Summer, because most games slated to be released by that time are most likely so far along in development that it's just too late to incorporate online for the Wii. It's going to be a while into 2008 before we start to see results, and by then it might just be too late: The Wii by that point may be known as 'The Console That Online Forgot' and no developer will really want to incorporate online.

Hopefully, it's not THAT late. But Nintendo definitely needs to get off it's butt and help third parties out in a timely fashion. It really seems like Nintendo thinks too much as a competitive game developer too much, and not enough as the console makers they really need to be.  

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
To everyone saying "Wait until 2008" and "Nintendo's shipped online dev kits so shut up". Ever hear of the concept of a deadline? I know it's something Nintendo doesn't really like to commit itself to, but within the actual realm of game development, these are very important.

Just because Nintendo just now shipped dev kits doesn't mean we're going to be seeing online games in the Summer, because most games slated to be released by that time are most likely so far along in development that it's just too late to incorporate online for the Wii. It's going to be a while into 2008 before we start to see results, and by then it might just be too late: The Wii by that point may be known as 'The Console That Online Forgot' and no developer will really want to incorporate online.

Hopefully, it's not THAT late. But Nintendo definitely needs to get off it's butt and help third parties out in a timely fashion. It really seems like Nintendo thinks too much as a competitive game developer too much, and not enough as the console makers they really need to be.

Boy, you simply LOVE being Ian Jr. don't you? :p

I mention the summer comment because that's when it will likely happen. I see them making a big deal out of online gaming before the end of summer/fall. I see the Wii's second fall schedule being focused on the killer apps (Mario, Brawl etc.) and online gaming.

As for the 2008 comment, I mention it because Nintendo has all of 2007 to plan, develop and release online games. If by 2008 there are still no online plans then something is up. I mention it because right now its too early to demand online games since Nintendo, as well as the third parties, focused on pushing consoles and games into homes.

Did the PS3 even have some online games at launch? I know the 360 had some online games, but that was using the already established XBOX Live service (which that in itself took a year to take off).

And to clear everything, I ain't being overly optimistic or forgiving on Nintendo. I am simply stating that right now its too early to say that the Wii is doomed in terms of online gaming since it was just released and that the online fest should come no later than summer or fall. Again, if by then no advancement has been made then its something to bitch about in great numbers.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think Pap is right.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
If Nintendo WFC has been up and running for a year and a half, why aren't first-party Wii games like Excite Truck and Mario Party 8 online?

Mario Party, no. There are some games that shouldn't have the entire purprose ripped out of them, and one of them is Mario Party. It's as stupid and depressing as an online Uno or Monopoly.

[Bill Aurion]

Agreed...The entire point of Mario Party is getting to cuss out your friends when they steal a star from you or pointing and laughing when you do it back to them!  Doing a drinking game online would also be really pointless...

[18 Days]

Not to mention someone always ahs to goto the toilet due to beer comsumption and they take this break during the dice roll. With no VoIP, how will they convey this in the game? Everyone will be agitated.

Let's not forget that the average Mario Party game takes well over an hour to play.

[Pittbboi]

You're still only focusing on first party games.

Nintendo has had their own online dev kits since the beginning, they better have online (though I really don't have much faith in Brawl providing the type of online play everyone thinks it will). It's with third parties that this could be an issue. Third parties JUST got dev kits, so you can expect the first push to be from Nintendo, but don't expect much in the way of online significance from third parties this year.

You can defend Nintendo all you want, but nothing will change the fact that third parties should have had these dev kits a long time ago, and this WILL affect how third parties approach Nintendo's online service. It may not be too late, but that's all we can hope at this point.

[Shecky]

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Did the PS3 even have some online games at launch? I know the 360 had some online games, but that was using the already established XBOX Live service (which that in itself took a year to take off).

Just to answer the question... The PS3 had it's keystone title "Resistance: Fall of Man" which supported Co-op and also had a 40 Player mode over the network.

If someone will be at GDC and runs into any Wii developers, I recommend asking those questions earlier.  A lot of the early dev kits were GCN's with adapters to allow for wii remotes as input devices.  With that in mind, they likely did not have any WiFi hardware.  Companies like EA may have gotten the full kits before games like CoD3 came out, but it may not have been in time for proper testing.

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
You're still only focusing on first party games.

Nintendo has had their own online dev kits since the beginning, they better have online (though I really don't have much faith in Brawl providing the type of online play everyone thinks it will). It's with third parties that this could be an issue. Third parties JUST got dev kits, so you can expect the first push to be from Nintendo, but don't expect much in the way of online significance from third parties this year.

You can defend Nintendo all you want, but nothing will change the fact that third parties should have had these dev kits a long time ago, and this WILL affect how third parties approach Nintendo's online service. It may not be too late, but that's all we can hope at this point.

I was talking about online games in GENERAL, not just the first party titles. If its true that Nintendo is working closely with third parties then you can bet they too will heavily advertise the third party online games.

I still see all online games from all developers being released after summer/during fall.

[Smash_Brother]

I agree that Nintendo should have had these things out a while ago.

But at least the PS3 also seems to have sh*t for online play as well...

[Jonnyboy117]

Quote
Originally posted by: Entroper

I'm sorry, but wasn't there an article on THIS SITE, YESTERDAY, saying that devs had online kits?  Oh look, it's right here!

You know, when a reader takes the time to organize their thoughts and post some feedback, it's probably best not to say that it's "horsepocky."  With all due respect?  Gee, thanks.

Rick was quoting and replying to TYP, not you.  They know each other very well and are used to this kind of back-and-forth.

As for the article about online dev kits, I honestly had not read that until you guys linked to it today.  The editorial was written a few days before that news ran, and I didn't see the news before I posted the editorial.  However, if I had seen the news, it wouldn't have stopped me from posting the editorial, although I might have thrown in a link to the news and a comment about it.

That third-parties are starting to get online dev kits is certainly good news.  There is still the question of why it took this long, but that's water under the bridge.  I think this development means little for the immediate to mid future of the Wii lineup.  Not only is it difficult to implement an online mode late in a game's development cycle, but it's going to take developers a little while just to learn how to use the dev tools.

[IceCold]

Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
Next time someone interviews a developer (maybe GDC) why not ask them the right questions:

1) Do your Wii hardware development kits physically have wireless connectivity?
 a) Why yes, we do
 b) Why no, we don't our dev kit is
   b.1) Still a modified GCN
   b.2) A early Wii kit with no wireless

2) Does the software development kit (SDK) contain network socket libraries?
 a) Huh?
 b) Yes they do.
 c) No they do not.
 d) We wrote our own.

3) Does the SDK have libraries that work with "WiiConnect24" (Nintendo's centralized account and community)
 a) Yes
 b) No
 c) We wrote our own.

I'd be very interested to hear what they say to those, but I wonder if they would answer them..

Someone noticed!

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think the reason behind it taking so long is Nintendo being their own secretive selves, none of us should be surprised how tightly they have kept online to themselves, they do things like that ALL the time.

[Shift Key]

I'm surprised this thread has gone for so long without someone requesting for more onrine games from Iwata.

IWATA TIME?

[Nephilim]

Quote
Agreed...The entire point of Mario Party is getting to cuss out your friends when they steal a star from you or pointing and laughing when you do it back to them! Doing a drinking game online would also be really pointless...

welcome to mid 2006, live with webcam and voice chat
Nintendo could easly pull of the same thing

fact is the webcam for live is pretty good, better quality then a expensive logitech one

[Entroper]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Rick was quoting and replying to TYP, not you.  They know each other very well and are used to this kind of back-and-forth.

Yeah, it's cool.  It was a little confusing, but I think I see what he meant now.

Still, I'm a little surprised with all the negativity here lately.  The Wii has had the most units sold at launch of any console, ever.  People are still lining up when stores open to try and get their hands on one.  Lately, I can't even keep up with all the new title announcements, and interviews with companies like Activision planning to shift their focus more towards the Wii.

I realize that online support is an important factor in getting third party devs, which could have helped the N64 and Gamecube do better than they did.  It just seems strange to read gloomy posts about third-party support in the wake of Activision's announcement, and the recent article about devs getting online kits.

[Smash_Brother]

I've said it before: the reason I want to see Nintendo consoles online is because the prospect of Nintendo games with online features excites me far beyond your standard FPS/racing/sports fare.

Mario Kart, despite its failings, was still a lot of fun online. Same with Animal Crossing. Now, if we could get an online Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware, SSBB, Mario Strikers, Pikmin vs. mode, etc., I think it's safe to say these games would be absolutely awesome.

The real reason to have an online mode in these games is to allow players to ALWAYS have some competent human opponents, even when their friends aren't around or they kick the piss out of their friends at that particular game. Online modes increase the replay value drastically, THAT'S the real reason to include an online mode: it's the biggest favor you can do your customers and if it uses friend codes, it doesn't cost much in the way of online services to do.

How many Wii games are sitting on your shelf right now which you'd be playing on a regular basis if you could ALWAYS have a skilled opponent to compete against?

How many GAMECUBE games are sitting on your shelf under the same pretense?