Author Topic: REVIEWS: Wii Play  (Read 20094 times)

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Offline that Baby guy

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2007, 08:37:03 AM »
I think most of the time, if you read the review, you'll find what you want to know.  I mean, I know if a game were five dollars and received a low score, in the review, NWR would say if it was worth the low score.  I know that, because they always have put things like that.  I know if I want to know the best and worst things about the game, including price, I can scroll down and see their pros and cons.  I read the review, and found that, for $10, you get three entertaining games that might be worth checking out, and also a few tech demos.  That's what I got out of it.
I'm probably going to pick it up, and I'll probably have fun with those three games, and maybe one of the other ones.  It won't be a game I introduce to my family w/o playing first, though, unlike Wii Sports.

Offline thomasei

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2007, 08:39:20 AM »
The overwhelming demand for Wii-motes made Reggie say: "Wow, how do we get even more money out of the Wii-motes. Didn't we have some crappy tech demos lying around? And when I say crappy I mean Superman 64 style CRAPPY! Let's just jam them in there and charge 50 dollars. Nintendo fanboys will surely buy this crap. They'll buy anything with the Nintendo logo on it. Except Elite Beat Agents. Don't you fanboys like Avril Lavigne's song Skaterboy? Man, she's is so hot. I'd like to regginate her. Man, screwing customers is great! Regginator out. I better go play some Gears of War now."  

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2007, 08:56:30 AM »
Come to think of it, it should be a hardware review rather than a game review.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2007, 02:59:05 PM »
So apparently, Wii Play is no longer Wii Play, its called Hotel Dusk Room 215...

Don't believe me? Check the main page... :p
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Offline WindyMan

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2007, 03:36:03 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
So apparently, Wii Play is no longer Wii Play, its called Hotel Dusk Room 215...

Don't believe me? Check the main page... :p


Damn, you're quick.  That was a two-minute goof on my part.  It's been fixed for a while.
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Offline IceCold

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2007, 04:52:29 PM »
I haven't played this yet (getting it on Monday) but I highly doubt I will find it as bad as the review suggests. As Mario said, there are many flaws with the review.

I guess it's like how WiiSports was reviewed with such low scores. It didn't have amazingly detailed graphics, the controls were limited, there weren't enough modes, etc etc. But somehow, it's my favourite game on the Wii, and I consider it one of the best games in a long time. That intangible or "Tilt" factor is through the roof because of the fun, and the reviews don't do it any justice.

I have to say, though, that recently I've been disagreeing with many NWR reviews. You guys are probably being harsher because they're launch games, so there's room to improve, but I feel that many scores are unnecessarily low.

I find that my opinion is most in-line with N-Sider. They don't do many reviews, but looking and nearly all the Cube reviews they did, I almost always agree with them. This isn't only for the scores; like thatguy, before even considering the score, I first read what the reviewer found good and bad about the title. Then I decide whether I can handle the flaws, and how important they are to me. Then I look at the score and the justification.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2007, 08:31:55 PM »
Ice Cold I definately agree, personally I am looking forward to playing this game with my family more so than by myself. Heck we love playing darts in WarioWare SM, and that can't be any more complex than most of these games.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2007, 03:12:56 AM »
*shrug*  I read the review and ignore the score.  Always have.  I tend to get what I need from the review but I rarely actually totally agree with a reviewer.  Thats just the nature of the beast.  It seems that all the Nintendo reviewers this generation feel like they have something to prove. So are being harder on  games.
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Offline Pale

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2007, 07:01:32 AM »
I wasn't going to say this initially, as I didn't want to sound defensive, but I urge all of you to make use of the Reader Review forum if you really disagree with an NWR review.  I'll be anxious to see how you handle a lot of these games as I think reviewing them is extremely challenging.  The industry (as far as Wii is concerned) has definitely taken a step back in terms of depth and production values in order to try out this new control scheme in many cases, and that's tough to score.  Is it possible to forget those shortcomings because the new control features are so cool?  I think the answer to that question is different for everyone.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2007, 07:26:46 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
I wasn't going to say this initially, as I didn't want to sound defensive, but I urge all of you to make use of the Reader Review forum if you really disagree with an NWR review.  I'll be anxious to see how you handle a lot of these games as I think reviewing them is extremely challenging.  The industry (as far as Wii is concerned) has definitely taken a step back in terms of depth and production values in order to try out this new control scheme in many cases, and that's tough to score.  Is it possible to forget those shortcomings because the new control features are so cool?  I think the answer to that question is different for everyone.


Well, its unfair to say that the WHOLE industry has taken a step back in terms of production and depth. It's true that some games need some work, but many of them have done a great job of implementing Wii controls AND bringing some depth in terms of production values. Rayman not only was creative in terms of gameplay it had an insane art style. And despite short comings, Red Steel tried its hardest to innovate. Activision did its best with its games too.

Hell, even Sega seems to be spending some time with their Wii games. And don't even get me started on Square...

It's true that the games released at and after launch are either ports or lazy attempts at Wii concepts, but this sort of things happens all the time. Remember the DS launch? All it had was concept games, N64 ports and GBA ports with hasty touch screen support thrown in. Now not only is it a phenomenon, its home to some of the best games this generation and will be the home of one of the most anticipated sequels this gen...Dragon quest IX.

Also, graphics and presentation a good game do not make. Yeah, I know its a tired phrase, but I think its unfair to judge the overall quality of the game on just the presentation.

One other thing, the Japan sales of this game proves that there IS an audience for this type of game, low production values be damned. I would blame it on the controller, yes, but its been 3 months since launch and people are STILL eating the game up. Surely there must be more to it than the controller, right?

And finally, OF COURSE you will be defensive. Usually, websites tend to have collective thinking in some matters, so when the readers disagree heavily with the review of course the staff will come out and defend its opinion. Hell, even SB and Cap take a very defensive stance when someone argue their opinion either here or on their podcast.

So to sum it all up:
1. You guys are perhaps are being too paranoid when it comes to Wii games, since it barely launched and many games are coming for it.
2. Simply because the game has low production values or low presentation skills it doesn't mean that in the long run its a bad game.
3. The defensive stance is understandable since its almost an universal law.

Frankly, I haven't played the game myself, but I see this as being a 6.0 game, an average type game that isn't fantastic but provides some fun. 4.0 and lower just reeks of bad game material, which is why I think people say its just a harsh review.

I think you just had expectations way too high for this type of game...
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Offline Ceric

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2007, 07:50:08 AM »
I do try to do a reader review if I disagree with the review.  In fact I have a peice of hardware that I want to write a review but I just haven't yet.
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Offline LassePalle

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2007, 08:58:53 AM »
Ok, I think it’s time for me to reply to some of the comments now.

Quote

Gold isn't even the highest, Platinum is.

You’re absolutely right, Mario. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Complaining about dull presentation and slow pace in a BILLIARDS game? Also completely ridiculous.

As I noted elsewhere in the review, the graphics and sounds (and so also the presentation) play a relatively small role in your enjoyment of the game. So don’t consider the complaint about the dull presentation to be a huge one. I mention it because the presentation is particularly bad in Billiards. It shows that Nintendo put very little effort into creating a fitting mood for the mini-games. Even Monkey Billiards in Super Monkey Ball 2 had actual graphics around the table, which at least gave you some illusion of being in some cosy bar with beer-drinking monkeys and jazz music etc. In comparison, Wii Play Billiards shows nothing more than a low-res black and white texture.
As for the slow pace, I’m not after some crazy adrenaline kick. Real-life billiards is pretty slow, so it’s natural for a billiards videogame to be that as well. But, once again, Billiards in Wii Play is an extreme case. There are lots of other billiards games – both on consoles and available for free on the internet - that are far less drawn out and cumbersome to play, yet still offer the same amount of depth.

Quote

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they all fail in showing off the exciting potential of the kind of gaming experiences that the Wii Remote can offer.

Not really. People say "hey I wonder how the remote would work for Ping Pong", they play this, the answer is "well"..

Instead of showing people how you can play a 35 year-old game differently with a remote, why not try to create games specifically designed around the remote? Nintendo has always stressed the importance of creating entirely new gameplay experiences, and the Wii – with its unique controller - fits perfectly into this philosophy. But Wii Play – with its many “remakes” of existing games and existing game ideas – doesn’t.

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It's just fun, and easily worth a pissweak extra $10. That's like 5 games of air hockey in the arcade.

You can also spend $10 on one or two great VC games. I can think of at least a dozen of those that are superior to Wii Play.

Quote

I think this review is being extremely unfair, but sadly I see this being the norm when people review Wii Play. For all its good intentions, Wii Play is a tech demo game, perhaps even more so than Wii Sports. Like someone said, these were basically the quick demos shown at E3 for the hell of it. Even Nintendo realized that the only way they can move copies of the game is if they include a Wiimote alongside it.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by this paragraph, but tech demo or no tech demo, Wii Play is still a game that should be reviewed on the same terms as any other game. Of course, the fact that it’s a budget title should be reflected in the overall recommendation/disrecommendation. But you can’t use the term tech demo as an excuse to give the game a higher score (though I’m not sure, if that’s what you really meant).

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The BIG mistake would be comparing it to Wii Sports. Yes, both games present you a simple concept that uses the Wiimote greatly and are aimed towards the casual gamers, but Wii Sports does it through sports while Wii Play does it by mini games. The concepts are vastly different from each other, so saying one is better than the other would be an unfair treatment.

By that logic, you wouldn’t even be able to compare the mini-games in Wii Play to each other, because some are based on sports (Table Tennis), some on racing (Charge), some on puzzles (Find Mii), some on shooting (Shooting Range) etc. I think it makes perfect sense to compare Wii Play to Wii Sports. They are both compilations that consist of small games that can’t stand on their own as fully-fledged titles. They’re both highly accessible. They both try to show how the remote can be used in various ways. They cater to the same audience, share the shame visual style, and a part of the same overall strategy that involves drawing non-gamers to Wii. Whether you’re throwing a bowling ball in Wii Sports or shooting clay pigeons in Wii Play, you can still compare and comment on how fun, how deep, how satisfying the game is and how well it looks, sounds, controls etc.

Quote

But NWR's audience isn't kids and non-gamers. Ideally a NWR review should be making a recommendation to the NWR readers. If reviews are entirely for the target demo of the game then it isn't fair to write bad reviews for something like That's So Raven because any idiot who likes that show probably would like the game for it. NWR readers are going to be fairly hardcore. We're certainly not non-gamers. So if hardcore gamers will grow bored of it then it makes sense for this review to give it a poor score. That informs us that we, not being kids or non-gamers, won't like it.

The review isn’t deliberately directed towards hardcore gamers or casual gamers or any other group of gamers. However, since I see myself as a hardcore gamer, and since the review is an evaluation of the game’s artistic and gameplay qualities from my point of view, it’s reasonable to assume that other hardcore gamers would generally be more agreeable with the review compared to “casual” or “non-gamers”. It’s not my job to tell if little seven-year-old Timmy or his grandma who never played a videogame before would enjoy Wii Play. I’m not qualified to say. Instead, my job is to present and make an argumentation for my own views of the game, which can act as a guide to the reader towards a possible purchase or rental decision. Pale puts it well:

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There are so many issues involved with reviewing games. That is why it is so important to read more than just the score. Some people will expect price vs. content to come into it. Others will expect target demographic to come into it. The point is it's impossible to please everyone from every background.

Before I bore you all to death, let me just finish this post by reiterating that I don’t think Wii Play is a terrible game. A score of 4.5 means that the game is slightly below average. I think Wii Play is far from being a AAA title. It’s a fair distance from Wii Sports, but it’s not terrible. You could easily do worse than pick up Wii Play. But why do it when there are so many better alternatives?
     

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2007, 11:43:07 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: LassePalle
Before I bore you all to death, let me just finish this post by reiterate that I don’t think Wii Play is a terrible game. A score of 4.5 means that the game is slightly below average. I think Wii Play is far from being a AAA title. It’s a fair distance from Wii Sports, but it’s not terrible. You could easily do worse than pick up Wii Play. But why do it when there are so many better alternatives?
Maybe because I need the extra controller and I can't find one in the store? Besides all the better alternatives don't come with a remote for an extra $10 (or $40 depending on what better alternative we're talking about and how you wanna look at it)

Offline Ceric

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2007, 11:47:12 AM »
That is a good point the scale at NWR is a little different then other sites.
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Offline IceCold

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2007, 03:45:26 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
That is a good point the scale at NWR is a little different then other sites.
Not really. Jonny himself posted the stats of the average percent of the games NWR reviews and the average of the same games on GameRankings; they're pretty much the same.

Reading LassePalle's post makes me wish that staff would post more on the forums, rather thank just talk about their articles..
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2007, 05:09:48 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"While I agree that the lack of 4 player is disappointing I think the bad score is a bit uncalled for since the game is aimed at a different audience. True, the hardcore gamers will grow bored with it, but who knows if kids and non gamers end up loving it."

But NWR's audience isn't kids and non-gamers.  Ideally a NWR review should be making a recommendation to the NWR readers.  If reviews are entirely for the target demo of the game then it isn't fair to write bad reviews for something like That's So Raven because any idiot who likes that show probably would like the game for it.  NWR readers are going to be fairly hardcore.  We're certainly not non-gamers.  So if hardcore gamers will grow bored of it then it makes sense for this review to give it a poor score.  That informs us that we, not being kids or non-gamers, won't like it.


We don't write reviews targeting any particular audience.  We review the game as we see it.  Lasse is a hardcore gamer, like pretty much everyone on staff, so he's writing from that perspective (not TO it!).
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2007, 05:20:12 AM »
I think our scores at GameRankings average out to be higher than what we consider an average score (5) because many of the truly awful games are not distributed to the press for review, and/or our public relations contacts are not comprehensive.  You see the same thing in movie reviews, where more and more films are not being screened for critics.  That doesn't change the review score rubric, which is prominently explained on the site and linked to in every review.  It's a loose scale but we do take the scores seriously.

I'm glad Lasse joined this thread to explain a few things.  When he submitted this review, he expressed some doubt over how he had scored it and whether he should factor in the game's low cost with the scoring.  I told him no, that the scores should reflect the actual quality of the game, but that he could consider the cost of the game when making a purchase/rental/etc. recommendation.  Part of the reasoning there is that the cost of most games changes over time, and we cannot predict what will happen to a game's cost at the time of the review.

In other words, Lasse thinks Wii Play is a below average game, 4.5/10 on our scale.  That does not necessarily mean you shouldn't buy it, considering the scarcity of Wii Remotes and the low risk associated with the game's cost.
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Offline ShyGuy

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2007, 08:49:44 AM »
so... on the NWR scale a "1" would be something like Custer's Revenge, a "5" would be your typical movie/cartoon licensed schlock game and a "10" would be SMB 3?

Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2007, 11:22:58 AM »
I would agree with the above scores, yes.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2007, 12:58:45 PM »
I've always pondered whether or not it would be a good thing to have review scores aimed at demographics.

For example, DBZ:BT2 on the Wii would be only mildly entertaining for your average gamer, but it's a bona fide DBZ fan's wet dream.

I've heard of at least one review which said, "9.0 for DBZ fans, 5.0 for everyone else". I know it's always difficult to determine how the demographic you're trying to review for will ACTUALLY take to the game, but the truth is, it's better to guess and communicate the notion that this game WILL be received differently by different audiences than to simply drop one score for everyone.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2007, 01:25:11 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I've always pondered whether or not it would be a good thing to have review scores aimed at demographics.

...it's better to guess and communicate the notion that this game WILL be received differently by different audiences than to simply drop one score for everyone.


Again, our scores aren't for everyone.  They're for the person who wrote the review.  That's the only reasonable, consistent, practical way it can be done at all.  Just ask Game Informer.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2007, 07:59:50 PM »
Well I picked up the game today and it is definately a game best enjoyed with other people. Not to say single player isn't fun, because it is, but it is one that must be experienced with others. My personal favorite has to be the tank one along with the shooting gallery, both are a blast and great time killers. So far I would give the game around a 5.5/6.0 since it is shallow but more than worth the 10$. I'm glad I waited on purchasing my 4th Wiimote!
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2007, 03:03:05 AM »
this game does not exist.  Because I can't find it anywhere.  oh well.  Nintendo screws up again.
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Offline Pale

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RE: REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2007, 03:28:08 AM »
Mine just shipped from an EBGames.com preorder today.  Stores should get it today.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE:REVIEWS: Wii Play
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2007, 03:34:05 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
this game does not exist.  Because I can't find it anywhere.  oh well.  Nintendo screws up again.


Heh, 'round here there was a huge surplus of Wii Play ever since launch while unbundled Wiimotes were almost impossible to find.