Topic: Reggie Talks Wii

[WuTangTurtle]

Here's hoping we all get 1,000 VC Points!  Let us choose a game rather than have ExciteBike shoved down our throats.

[Galford]

I'm not trying to endorse piracy, but anyone who has poked around the darker corners of the Internet will understand what I mean about bitorrents.

My comment about price was to illustrate the fact there are cheaper ways to get VC games, some legal.
Look at the recent Sega Genesis Colllection for the PS2.  Price what it would take to download all those games for the VC.
If you own a PS2 the collection is $20.  I don't expect Nintendo to give VC games away but they have aways to go before
I feel they are truelly competative.

I would love to play Seiken Densetsu 3 legally, but until someone releases it legally I'm kinda stuck.
Also pirates are the reason why we are seeing reteo game releases and things like the VC in general.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane They've got about the same level of third party support at launch as they did with the Cube.

B-b-b-b-b-BULLSH*T!

Did you miss this thread?

Did Disney open a new studio just for the GC?

Did Ubisoft believe that they could become the #1 3rd party publisher by heavily supporting the GC?

Did Square promise DQ and FF games for the GC before it even released?

And when the hell did Banco promise 30 titles for the GC?

You can sit there and be a curmudgeon all you damn well please and bash a console you don't even own, but don't go spouting gross inaccuracies like saying the Wii and the Cube have anywhere NEAR the same level of 3rd party support.

The amount of 3rd party support the Wii was seeing BEFORE LAUNCH almost already outweighs the 3rd party support the cube saw over its entire lifespan. Any 3rd party support Nintendo saw for the cube was support they earned by basically giving the business version of sexual favors to 3rd parties.

This time, 3rd parties are flocking to them without Nintendo having to solicit their aid beforehand. That much alone speaks volumes about how much better the 3rd party support will be for the Wii than it was for the cube.  

[couchmonkey]

I really don't think Nintendo is being that arrogant anymore, I think it's making some decisions that annoy people such as the thin Virtual Console lineup, but put into perspective, it makes sense.  Honestly, I wouldn't even consider Bonk's Adventure if there were 100 other games to choose from, but since there aren't, I actually have to put in some willpower to skip it.

I am concerned about one thing, though...Reggie thinks Wario Ware, Mario Party and Wii Play is a good lineup for the first quarter?  Yikes...what happened to Metroid, Mario, Batallion Wars and Super Mario Strikers?  And he confirms that Nintendo thinks it can get away with Virtual Console games during the dry spells...strongly disagreed.  I don't think this will kill the system, but it's going to make things harder than they have to be.

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
...but don't go spouting gross inaccuracies like saying the Wii and the Cube have anywhere NEAR the same level of 3rd party support.

Generally this is right, and you don't have to look any further than the launch line up, which was 20 games versus the GCN's 12, with some of those being Dreamcast ports.

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey
I am concerned about one thing, though...Reggie thinks Wario Ware, Mario Party and Wii Play is a good lineup for the first quarter?  Yikes...what happened to Metroid, Mario, Batallion Wars and Super Mario Strikers?  And he confirms that Nintendo thinks it can get away with Virtual Console games during the dry spells...strongly disagreed.  I don't think this will kill the system, but it's going to make things harder than they have to be.

According to sales data, I don't think he is out of touch with placing Mario Party there, even if most hardcores have moved past the series now (still only ever bought the first one for the N64). I do agree though that supporting the Virtual Console better during dry spells is a pretty poor solution, as there shouldn't be any game wise droughts to begin with to even spin the situation like that if everything was going well.

[Ian Sane]

"Ian... this was the best launch this generation. By a lot."

Well I'll agree with that.  Not that the competition was even competent in their launches but Nintendo still did do the best job.

Let's put it this way.  Nintendo traditionally has been a very arrogant company.  Reggie is saying they can't be and I'm rolling my eyes because Reggie says a lot of stuff that Nintendo doesn't actually do.  While there aren't exactly huge examples of Nintendo arrogance in the Wii so far I don't see a big shift to suggest that Nintendo has changed.  I'm making the assumption from how they're handling the VC that Nintendo is still the same as they ever were.

My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true.  The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault.  He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.

Regarding Wii third party support vague promises from companies like Square Enix don't mean squat until you see what they actually have in store.  Technically SE supported the Cube but their support sucked: one game that wasn't very good.  From what I see having been revealed and having been released I don't see anything that much better than what the Cube had down the pipeline at this point in time.  I remember everyone getting excited about the potential third party support for the Cube as well and the intial Cube support was not as horrible as it eventually became.  But I want to see what is actually in the works first.  Non-specific support annoucements burned me on the Cube so I'm going to be more cautious on the Wii.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane Regarding Wii third party support vague promises from companies like Square Enix don't mean squat until you see what they actually have in store.  Technically SE supported the Cube but their support sucked: one game that wasn't very good.  From what I see having been revealed and having been released I don't see anything that much better than what the Cube had down the pipeline at this point in time.  I remember everyone getting excited about the potential third party support for the Cube as well and the intial Cube support was not as horrible as it eventually became.  But I want to see what is actually in the works first.  Non-specific support annoucements burned me on the Cube so I'm going to be more cautious on the Wii.

The only thing ever "promised" on the cube was the infamous Capcom 5 and we all know how well that turned out.

Personally, I don't remember anyone getting excited about 3rd party support on the cube. It was the Nintendo games people were always looking forward to the most, but with the Wii launch already proving that 3rd party titles sell like hotcakes on the system, I think it's safe to say that Wii 3rd party support will be FAR better than that of the cube.

Also, SE didn't support the cube: Iwata begged them for support and Yamauchi actually footed the bill for FF:CC to be made. Same with MGS:TS. That's not really support so much as striking a bargain.

This time around, Nintendo is receiving the support without needing to strike a bargain with the company beforehand. Nintendo didn't bargain for FFIII on the DS, nor did they bargain for the FFXII sequel ALSO coming to the DS. Square goes with the most popular console, and when the Wii stomps the PS3 sales in Japan in two days, we're going to rapidly see which console that is.

And again, the amount of 3rd party enthusiasm being shown for the Wii is light years ahead of the best the GC EVER saw.

Disney starting a development house specifically for the Wii? No one even came CLOSE to doing that for the GC. In fact, companies were hesitant to support the cube from the start.

Ubi banking on the Wii as their road to #1 3rd party publisher? I know that's overly ambitious, but Ubisoft has been around for a while and survived long enough that they know how to handle this market. No company, before or after the GC's launch, EVER showed this much enthusiasm for it. No one ever looked at the GC and said, "THAT is our ticket to success!"

And Nintendo's biggest ace in the hole comes from the fact that they are the de facto winner in Japan. The DS still sells 150,000 units every week over there and with more 3rd parties axing support for the PS3 every day, that just leaves the Wii and the 360, and considering the piss-poor adoption rate of the 360, that leaves the Wii by f*cking default.

When the Wii explodes in Japan in two days (and it will), it will only serve to further enforce the fact that Nintendo is the only option for Japanese development.

Don't get me wrong: none of this would be possible without Sony's incessant bungling with the handling of the PSP and PS3, but the fact is, they've bungled it and Nintendo stands to snatch up the lion's share of the market simply because Japan is only a battle between Sony and Nintendo.

If Sony can't even get their sh*t together long enough to produce enough consoles to create a user base, why would any 3rd party in their right mind support them?

[couchmonkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true.  The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault.  He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.

Technically it is his fault for promising stuff when he knows his bosses may say no.  I'm fond of Reggie, as marketers go, but he's still a marketer, he's still saying what the audience needs to hear, he just has a way of making it sound like he's being really open and honest.

Mario Party 8 probably will be a hit, but it's not out until March and just pretending for a second that there's no third party support...that would be three games in three months, that's N64-bad.  Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties.  If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Capcom 5 (or 6) > True Fantasy Live (True Fantasy LOL)

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties.  If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.

There are supposed to be 62 Wii games out by the end of this year, I believe.

That should be enough to tide most people over until MP8 arrives.

[vudu]

62?  That sounds a bit high; do you have a list?  (How many are movie tie-ins?)

[Smash_Brother]

Let me see if I can find that quote to validate its accuracy...

Also, I expect 90% of them to be ports, but if we have 10 excellent and fun games, it's still 10 more than the PS3 and 9 more than the 360 (I'm counting Gears).

EDIT: Found it.

Launch lineup: Nintendo has promised 62 titles before year's end, even though about 30 of those are classic games from previous platforms available for download on the Virtual Console. Regardless, it's still a hefty launch lineup (compare that to Xbox 360's 18 titles last year). Meanwhile, Sony has promised 21 titles for the launch. Sorry, but new or old, Nintendo's got game in the launch titles department.

Looks like they're counting VC games in that number, but that still leaves it at 32 games before the end of the year and that ain't a bad day's work, either.

[Ceric]

You know I think TP set the bar for Nintendo games on the Wii.  Thats the game everyone will compare all of Nintendo offerings to in term of quality and scope.  (3rd Parties had a good opening so luckily there exempted somewhat from this.)  Nintendo realized this a few months before launch and realized that some of their projects, MP3 from what I've heard, weren't up to snuff to take the scrutiny.  I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.  I'll be disappointed otherwise.  Thats a tall order right their.  Nintendo knows it.  Hence the delay.  I'm worried about a drought though.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: couchmonkey

Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane

My comment was less about Nintendo arrogance and more about Reggie saying something that I know doens't actually ring true.  The guy has no cred with me anymore but it isn't his fault.  He has good ideas in theory but the company he works for doesn't allow those ideas to be executed.

Technically it is his fault for promising stuff when he knows his bosses may say no.  I'm fond of Reggie, as marketers go, but he's still a marketer, he's still saying what the audience needs to hear, he just has a way of making it sound like he's being really open and honest.

Mario Party 8 probably will be a hit, but it's not out until March and just pretending for a second that there's no third party support...that would be three games in three months, that's N64-bad.  Still, I have quite a bit of hope for the third parties.  If they can bring a bunch more game to the table it will be okay.

Yeah, Reggie is still PR. Don't let his piercing eyes and manly jaw fool you Ian, Reggie (and Iwata, even) are willing to do the marketting dance as well as Sony and MS now.

Oh, and will Mario Party 8 be online?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.  I'll be disappointed otherwise.  Thats a tall order right their.

Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.  I'll be disappointed otherwise.  Thats a tall order right their.

Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

I like to stop this right now.  Frankly TP looks better then almost every other game out their that I've seen.  Including ALL of the next gen titles.  It has an art style it sticks with it and it is truly impressive.  Now go on and tell me that Gear of War vastly surpasses it in realism.  I agree.  Gear of War has an Art Style and it does it Really well as well.

I hate this mentality that just because TP was originally a GC game and that even as a GC game that by virtue or the better hardware poof things should magically look better.  They don't.   People never really pushed the Cube to it's limit.  Not even Nintendo.  TP is a good example of that pushing and it shows that GC can surpass the X-Box in every way.  That the Wii in a First Gen Title can compete with the HD Machines.

So to simplify things:

Quote

I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.

They have gotten the extra development time.  The last time I saw the game running I can say it couldn't really hold a candle to TP at the end of the day.  I expect this to change.  No I don't have faith in Retro.  MP in most regards looked better then MP2.  More care was taken.  As a complete graphical and environmental packages MP3 will have big shoes to fill.

PS- Also after RE4 there wasn't another Cube game to step there graphics up to that.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think we need to be really careful to not compare two different genres visually, Zelda TP is doing different things with its graphical engine than MP will be doing so I think it is a bit unfair to compare the two.

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I personally expect Metroid Prime 3 to literally blow Zelda out of the water Graphics and Environment wise.  I'll be disappointed otherwise.  Thats a tall order right their.

Wow, you must have very little faith in Retro if you don't think they can outdo GC graphics.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Deadpan humor for the lose.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric


STUFF.

STOP.  You're jumping to too many conclusions without stating your assumptions for standards of visual judgement.  The comparisons are weak, and there's no considerations to the nature of each game's respective play style WHICH HAS A MASSIVE EFFECT on the available system resources dedicated to visuals.

You're being enchanted by the art style and the presentation, yet you're taking those as signs of technical prowess.

RE4 and MP2 pushed the Cube to its limits, in different ways.  Not one game could do "everything" because they involved sacrifices in resources.  Take advantage of some features over other features, but not ALL of them at the same time.  If all were used at the same time, the overall result will come up short compared to maximizing a set of features while not using others.

TP pushes the Cube the way RE4 pushes the Cube.  StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.

MP2 looks better than MP1.

Wake up.  

[Kairon]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric


STUFF.

STOP.  You're jumping to too many conclusions without stating your assumptions for standards of visual judgement.  The comparisons are weak, and there's no considerations to the nature of each game's respective play style WHICH HAS A MASSIVE EFFECT on the available system resources dedicated to visuals.

You're being enchanted by the art style and the presentation, yet you're taking those as signs of technical prowess.

RE4 and MP2 pushed the Cube to its limits, in different ways.  Not one game could do "everything" because they involved sacrifices in resources.  Take advantage of some features over other features, but not ALL of them at the same time.  If all were used at the same time, the overall result will come up short compared to maximizing a set of features while not using others.

TP pushes the Cube the way RE4 pushes the Cube.  StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.

MP2 looks better than MP1.

Wake up.

QFT. Thank's for that.

If you're gonna talk about graphics, talk about graphics. If you're gonna talk about artistic achievement, then talk about that. But choose please!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yeah, if we're talking about overall image quality on the GameCube, then Resident Evil Remake & Zero take the win, hands down.  And I'm sure judging visuals isn't as simple as that, cuz once you consider technicalities, like oh, gameplay, this argument becomes sour.

On a topic with so many variables, our judgements must have clear perspectives.

[Ceric]

lol

I'm sorry but MP2 had it moments but overall what I played of it really didn't look better then the original because it came out dark.  I'll go back to it later and tweak more settings now that it won't blow up on me.

Actually thanks Pro for making my argument.  I been trying for a while it didn't work but you have it.

[wandering]

Quote
StarFox Adventures pushed the Cube in its own way, but regularly failed.

It didn't fail. It just took advantage of some features over other features. Other features like a consistent framerate.  

[Ceric]

...and moving grass.

[Galford]

Nintendo does have more 3rd party support then the GC did, that can be accounted to Sony and MS
screwing up then Nintendo getting it right.

The real test for the Wii will come when Halo 3 and MGS 4 are released a year from now.  
Both of those games are system sellers and have graphics that can't be reproduced on the Wii.
In Japan the test is going to come when FF13 comes out.

If the Wii can weather those storms, it will do well this generation.
If it doesn't expect GC levels of third party support.

It's just too early to tell how this generation is going to go.