Author Topic: IGN reviews  (Read 33192 times)

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Offline Darkheart

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #100 on: November 16, 2006, 03:23:17 AM »
Quote

The new control of these games should be adding something to the scores.




I dont think the controller should give any extra points.  Thats like giving someone in class extra credit for every test for no reason.  The controller is the means of how we play, just like the PS3, just like the 360.  The only thing that should recieve points is controls.  If controls are funky and working against the game then points should be docked.  I think you guys are giving too much credit to the controller.  

I actually like Ign reviews I think they are pretty balanced.  It makes no sense for Excite truck or SMBBB to be getting 9's  and then to watch Zelda get 9.5s/10s.  They are not equal at all.  There HAS to be room for the top tier games and the good ones. the 7-8 range is a great range to be in.  

Also regardless of numbers, this doesn't always affect the sales.  Shadow the hedgehog freakin sold through the roof because children wanted it.  Children and parents rarely read reviews.  

Im not even sure if it was mentioned in here but Gabe from Penny Arcade was even talking about how great Zelda is and knocking down on Joystiq for their lame editorials.  BUT he did say how the graphics were not up to par, not even as a gamecube game.  He used Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and RE4 as examples of the best looking games on Gamecube and how Zelda doesn't match that  visual representation.  

So I think everyone just needs to tone down the hate of Ign and actually see their reviews for being for the majority pretty decent.  

Offline Rhoq

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #101 on: November 16, 2006, 03:26:39 AM »
Speaking of Wave Race...

Where the fu*k is Wave Race Wii? That should have been Nintendo's launch racer instead of Excite Truck, IMHO.
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Offline Darkheart

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #102 on: November 16, 2006, 03:30:22 AM »
Its in DOAXBV2 . . . .

Offline NWR_pap64

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2006, 03:51:10 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: darkheart
Quote

The new control of these games should be adding something to the scores.




I dont think the controller should give any extra points.  Thats like giving someone in class extra credit for every test for no reason.  The controller is the means of how we play, just like the PS3, just like the 360.  The only thing that should recieve points is controls.  If controls are funky and working against the game then points should be docked.  I think you guys are giving too much credit to the controller.  

I actually like Ign reviews I think they are pretty balanced.  It makes no sense for Excite truck or SMBBB to be getting 9's  and then to watch Zelda get 9.5s/10s.  They are not equal at all.  There HAS to be room for the top tier games and the good ones. the 7-8 range is a great range to be in.  

Also regardless of numbers, this doesn't always affect the sales.  Shadow the hedgehog freakin sold through the roof because children wanted it.  Children and parents rarely read reviews.  

Im not even sure if it was mentioned in here but Gabe from Penny Arcade was even talking about how great Zelda is and knocking down on Joystiq for their lame editorials.  BUT he did say how the graphics were not up to par, not even as a gamecube game.  He used Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and RE4 as examples of the best looking games on Gamecube and how Zelda doesn't match that  visual representation.  

So I think everyone just needs to tone down the hate of Ign and actually see their reviews for being for the majority pretty decent.


About the controls:
I'm sorry, but control IS a vital part of a game review, especially with the Wii. Have you ever played a game in which the controls sucked so bad it ruined the game for you, even when the game has a rock solid concept, visuals, music, story and execution? Controls are almost up there with gameplay as the most important part of a game because its the gateway to the interaction and if that fails the enjoyment is killed.

I also think that with the Wii controls could indeed enhance the enjoyment of the game further. The main appeal of the Wii is that the controller puts you in direct control of the game's movement. It also promises to simplify controls. So if a Wii game either:
- Truly makes it to that it feels like you are in that world
- Simplifies a control scheme
then extra points SHOULD be considered. true, Gameplay must be evaluated first, but if the control scheme adds to the value, then it should be considered as a major part of the game.

As for the graphics, people, I will tell you this...

GRAPHICS...MEAN...JACK SH*T

True, the games don't look as pretty as the 360 and PS3 games, but if you actually took the time to do the research you will learn that the graphically underpowered console is always in the lead.

The NES beat the Master System
The Genesis won over the SNES (which can be debatable)
The PSone won over the N64
The Gameboy won over the Game gear, the Nomad, Tiger, com etc. etc.
The GBA won over the N-Gage, the Wonderswan etc. etc.
The PS2 won over the XBOX and GC

And finally, we have the DS. It is basically an enhanced N64 with touch screen controls and other gimmicks. Worst of all, during launch very few games showed off the DS as a 3D system. Yet now it is a worldwide sensation. The PSP even had graphics THAT WERE ON PAR WITH PS2 GAMES, and yet it bombed badly.

Also, the best selling DS games have been the graphically simple ones, like Brain age and Animal crossing.

One other thing, its true that the initial launch titles don't look impressive, but GIVE DEVELOPERS TIME. RE 4 was one beautiful game and it was on the GC. If the Wii is a GC times 2, imagine what developers could do.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2006, 04:09:54 AM »
Wave Race Wii is going to be in Wii Motor Sports, duh.

As for control and grading systems.  I don't think it should ADD points to your score, but almost every review I have read they are TAKING AWAY points if the new controls aren't better/as good as analog control.  

It's like the reviewers aren't reviewing each individual game to see if the controls work and are fun.  But looking at it through: "Are these controls better than traditional gaming?"  If it is not then it gets lower scores.

That is not a fair justification of reviews.  An analogy of this is Turok vs. Goldeneye controls.  Some people loved Turok style controls, and it certainly worked for the series.  While others preferred Goldeneye's.  But they were both First person shooters.  As a reviewer I should not say Turok's controls are bad because I like Goldeneye's better.  I should only discredit the controls if they are truly hurt the game play.


RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #105 on: November 16, 2006, 04:27:44 AM »
It's not so much the graphic scores that bother me as much as the mention of the higher powered systems in these early reviews.  If game has washed out textures, rampant jaggies,etc. than I want to know about it. However, I also want that kept within the context of the system.  To be fair this might just be symptom of launch-time reviewing and will subsequently cease in further IGN reviews.  Personally, I have nothing against the reviewers over there and honestly believe those guys to be pretty die-hard Nintendo fans.  
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #106 on: November 16, 2006, 04:32:00 AM »
Well, points should be taken away fi the controls aren't as good as traditional control.  However, in the case where it's equal to, they should [not] be taken away.

Mostly, I think people shouldn't worry about "low" review scores.  If you're worried that the games aren't as good as you hoped, rent them first!  If you're worried that these reviews are going to hurt Wii, don't.  Most people won't even read them.

I think a lot of us are going to subjectively enjoy Wii games more than the scores are letting on.  The new experience will make it even more fun!  However, I respect that some reviewers see that better games will be coming down the line.  And I'm sure they're right in a lot of cases.  The Excite Truck review ended on that note - there's probably going to be a better arcade racing game this generation.  One that's online, allows four players, and takes more than a day to play through all the tracks.

Very late edit: how did I miss that not?
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Offline TerribleOne

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #107 on: November 16, 2006, 04:49:16 AM »
I think some of you guys are being too harsh on Matt w/out understanding his point of view. At times he can be annoying but don't think he's not learned in the field. As far as reviews go, we got to understand the crowd he's writing to. He's not writing to planetgamecube ninty fans but to the casual gamers who happen to be interested in Wii. He can't sit there and try to write to us nintendo fans who have that um, "extra patience" with games and then expect for average Joe to enjoy it. SPECIALLY as selective and picky as Nintendo System owners are(Re: third party games).

When you really think about it Wii is in a league of its own and probably will be its entire lifetime. So since it's the first of its kind, the Wii can only be judged against the Wii and perhaps people reviewing it are having trouble waging the pros and cons since they have nothing to compare it to. That's why everyone is starting off with odd reviews.

In fact I think people are being paranoid that the Wii is being compared graphically to the 360/PS3 but did you ever stop to think that the games are not impressive by their own merits and accomplishments. IMHO ExciteTruck is super boring to me.. 6.8 or 9.6 I could care less.
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Offline BigJim

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #108 on: November 16, 2006, 05:58:10 AM »
Nintendo actively encouraged developers to use their GCN dev kits to start their games, and I think that is reflective of their visuals at this point. They only just got their final Wii-grade dev hardware over the summer. As usual I believe the 2nd gen will be more indicative of what we can expect. But even if the Wii has 50% more powerful hardware (in MHz), I'm not expecting 50% more visuals. Actual performance doesn't scale with the clock. But at least there's more RAM, so that will account for something too... textures, lighting, etc.

For the controls, I don't think there should be any automatic tacking-on of points. If their implementation is crap, they deserve lower scores. If it enhances gameplay, they deserve a high score. This is Nintendo's crown jewel and should be reviewed fairly within the context of the actual experience.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #109 on: November 16, 2006, 07:16:16 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
For the controls, I don't think there should be any automatic tacking-on of points. If their implementation is crap, they deserve lower scores. If it enhances gameplay, they deserve a high score. This is Nintendo's crown jewel and should be reviewed fairly within the context of the actual experience.


I don't condone an "automatic taking on of points" for Wii games, but if you can look at the game and say it is more fun to play the game with the new control scheme compared to the old one, it deserves extra points. I also agree that if the motion controls feel shoehorned in (like alot of DS games with the touch screen), the score actually deserves to be lowered. Remember that the Wii was created around the new control experience, not considering that in your review is essentially ignoring that you are reviewing a Wii game. I personally think every Wii review should answer whether or not it is more fun to play with the new controller, because when it comes down to it, all I care about is the game being fun and if the Wii controller augments fun or decreases it.
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Offline Artimus

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #110 on: November 16, 2006, 07:18:15 AM »
Don't forget, guys, that IGN (unlike worthless, idiotic, stupid, hateful Gamespot) don't average their scores. Individual scores have a bearing on the overall score, but there's no correlation. The reviewers is free to give a game a 9.5 even if the graphics are a 4. I'm sure that if a game has mediocre graphics (7) but amazing gameplay (10) it'll be more likely to be in the 8.5/9 range than the 7.5 range. The reason ExciteTruck got an 8.0, I'd say, wasn't that it had 7.0 graphics but because it has 5.5 lasting appeal. If it had more meat I'm sure it'd be higher overall.

Offline Ian Sane

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #111 on: November 16, 2006, 07:20:50 AM »
"SO you're basically conceeding your opinion to ONE person. 'Here sir, decide what my tastes are!' The point is reviews AREN'T indicative of what YOU will find to be quality"

No I'm not.  I don't just look at one review score.  I use a site like gamerankings to get access to several reviews.  Usually I read the exceptional ones.  The people who like the game that everyone else hates and vice versa.  If I can play a demo in a store I do.  If I was interested in the game prior to reviews coming out I'll rent it or look further into it to find out why the game is getting scored as it is.  Who is making the game plays a role as well.  If Miyamoto made the game I'm going to make more of an effort to play it.  If some THQ game is getting sh!t on I know I don't have to bother with it.  If a Sonic game is getting sh!t on I'm not going to give it even the slightest chance because I got burned by the last several Sonic games.

It makes no sense to completely disregard reviews because then you have no idea where to start.  Are you going to just buy or rent (ie: spend money) on every game there is or read every review in detail, ignoring the score?  That makes no sense.  Usually I have a level of interest about a game beforehand and that level of interest determines how much effort I put into things.  If I have no interest and see low scores I avoid.  If I have high interest and see high scores I buy.  If the opposite of what I expected happens I look into it.

Regarding giving extra points for the controls I think that makes no sense.  Potential or trying new ideas out only means squat if executed well.  To me giving those extra points just because of the controller is giving a game a "nice try" award.  That isn't what a review is supposed to be about.  It's supposed to be "how good is this game".

Offline couchmonkey

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #112 on: November 16, 2006, 07:26:00 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Artimus
The reason ExciteTruck got an 8.0, I'd say, wasn't that it had 7.0 graphics but because it has 5.5 lasting appeal. If it had more meat I'm sure it'd be higher overall.


Yeah, absolutely.  Of course, the other thing to remember is that 8.0 is actually a good score.  In theory - it's a different reviewer so it's not quite true - but in theory, this means that IGN likes Excite Truck more than Mario Kart: Double Dash (7.9).  Even if the truth is that they consider it about equal to Double Dash, I'd still say that makes it a pretty good game.
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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2006, 07:30:58 AM »
I just hope more reviews start coming in quickly.  I'm having a hell of a time deciding which two games to pick up launch day and a little assistance would be much appreciated.  Some Rayman reviews would especially be useful.
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Offline couchmonkey

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2006, 08:15:15 AM »
Yes, I also really want a Rayman review.  If there isn't one before launch day I may by Yoshi's Island instead.  I can rent  Wii games.
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Offline zakkiel

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2006, 10:37:01 AM »
Quote

As for the graphics, people, I will tell you this...

GRAPHICS...MEAN...JACK SH*T
Why, thank you for informing me. I shall stop caring about them immediately.
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Offline Chris1

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2006, 11:35:56 AM »

RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2006, 11:48:24 AM »
This looks more and more like a Zelda and Rayman launch for me.  
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Offline IceCold

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2006, 11:58:25 AM »
Quote

I actually like Ign reviews I think they are pretty balanced. It makes no sense for Excite truck or SMBBB to be getting 9's and then to watch Zelda get 9.5s/10s. They are not equal at all. There HAS to be room for the top tier games and the good ones. the 7-8 range is a great range to be in.
That's how it should be.. Unfortunately, it's offset by the inflated scores on most other Internet review sites.
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Offline vudu

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2006, 02:52:05 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Cortez the Kiler
This looks more and more like a Zelda and Rayman launch for me.
Same here.  I was between Rayman and Monkey Ball, but it's looking like Rayman will have a better single player experience (I'm really not a big fan of Monkey Ball outside of the party games).
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Offline wandering

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2006, 06:05:24 PM »
I'm curious to see their Red Steel review. It sounds like they're going to crap on it for the controls being centered around shooting gallery-style gameplay.

Quote

IMDB has your movies rated at 6.4 and 7.3 respectively. Would you not consider a movie or game in the 6 or 7 range? Because that's kind of the complaint in this thread.

Well, a 6 in movie review terms is more like a 4 in game review terms.

Quote

You'll almost never find that hidden gem anymore. And that's ridiculous

I feel the same way. The only time I come across hidden gems these days are when I get them as presents. I got Two Towers for the GBA a few years back, a game I'd never consider buying, and was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

Quote

I noticed lots of 7's and 6's. Is Matt & Co being harsh? Ye-- NO, actually. Cuz you notice something under the overall review score that's been there for quite a while, a single word descriptor like "Good" or "Impressive", and it's all documented in the Rating Guide page. Matt is probably making a new effort to conform to the review system (that he probably helped create) and is trying to re-educate the audience on how the scores are to be interpretted (lol, good luck internets).

I don't think so. You're saying the review scores don't match up with the reviews - I say the only thing they don't match up with is the massive hype coming from Nintendo fans. GameCube-quality graphics, sub-10-hour single player modes, 2-player-only multiplayer, and no online functionality do not 9.5s make. At least, in ign land - a strange and mysterious place where review scores have never matched up with how worthy a game is of purchase. A land whose inhabitants think Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures are better games than Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney. Truly, it is a place one should never venture except out of absolute necessity.  
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Offline Kairon

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2006, 06:23:17 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
At least, in ign land - a strange and mysterious place where review scores have never matched up with how worthy a game is of purchase. A land whose inhabitants think Donkey Kong 64 and Star Fox Adventures are better games than Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.


I am confused. I thought you were being sarcastic until you got here. Now I can't believe I EVER trusted IGN reviews in my entire life.

I actually agree with you though. I don't find anything to really complain about with the numerical values: they seem fine to me for games that are fun and cool and all, but have flaws, are ports, or etc.

My complaint is that the text of the review doesn't dwell enough on the negatives of the games and thus don't match up. If they can't explain the score in the text of the review, then that makes the numerical score seem to emerge from some black box where we have no idea how they reached that score. That's the problem: not that their scores are lying, but their reviews texts are leaving out the negatives from their context.

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Offline Artimus

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RE:IGN reviews
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2006, 06:32:41 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering

Well, a 6 in movie review terms is more like a 4 in game review terms.


Right. It's the opposite actually. It's like the equivalent of a 7-8. The highest rated IMDB movie is 9.1, most game sites go up to at least 9.8 if not 10 every so often. A 6 is the baseline for a positive review (it's also the freshold on Rotten Tomatoes).

Offline wandering

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2006, 06:52:24 PM »
You're absolutely right. In fact, on metacritic, the baseline for game reviews being considered favorable is 89/100.  My mistake.

Quote

That's the problem: not that their scores are lying, but their reviews texts are leaving out the negatives from their context.

You make a good point. With scores like that, the reviews could have done with a bit more negativity.

edit: BTW, to anyone worried that Wii's review scores will make the console look worse than the PS3 by comparison, don't be.
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Offline wandering

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RE: IGN reviews
« Reply #124 on: November 16, 2006, 10:29:32 PM »
Not sure if this should go here or in the Red Steel thread: Etoychest has given everyone's favorite Kill Bill-inspired first-person shooter/sword fighting Wii launch game a 78/100

They don't like the sword controls, AI, or voices, and think the graphics are inconsistent, but seem to dig everything else. Most interestingly, they think the game has "perhaps the best example of multiplayer gameplay on the Wii at launch"
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