Author Topic: X06 News: Microsoft is going all out. Peter Jackson collaborations, Halo RTS, Banjo  (Read 22964 times)

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Offline nitsu niflheim

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Originally posted by: Kairon
... I hate Banjo's new combed-up hair style... he looks less country now...




Something About Mary hairstyle.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"To be a realistic those character designs are infinitely better than the original Banjo and Kazooie. Go back and look at the original...the designs were STUPID!!! Seriously. Look at the other Rare animal designed characters, and realize the models weren't that great."

NO...NO NO NO! >=O  Banjo was awesome and Kazooie actually was cute!  NOW THEY ARE AWFUL...AWESOME DOES NOT EQUAL AWFUL! >=O




You cannot be serious...CANNOT! >=O


Bill I am serious.  Those two screens and character art look completely the same to me.  One is using better technology, but they are rather similar.  I don't think Kazooie is any more or less cuter in her new design...actually I would lean to cutier...and Banjo doesn't look any more or less retarded.

Its a stupid bear in yellow pants and a backpack.  I never understood anyone who truly enjoyed those characters concepts.  Part of my opinion may come from the fact that I disliked the flow and design of the games.  But it is not all of it.  Go back and look at almost all of the character Rare designed (except for the human characters) most of them are very poor concepts.  

Banjo Kazooie
The other Kongs from Donkey Kong 64
Conker the Squirrel
Kameo: Elements of Power
DIDDY KONG RACING
JET FORCE GEMINI


Many of these games (if not all of them) have questionable art design and character concepts.  Jet Force Gemini actually had some pretty cool characters, until they grew them up.  

Basically, character design is hard to create truly classic and great characters.  We remember Rare's fondly because the games were great and fun to play...but that didn't make the characters great.  Banjo and Kazooie are perfect examples of that...both look stupid in the original design and in the new design.


Offline couchmonkey

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Time to join this angry mob!

I'm going to go on record as saying I really like Johanna's redesign.  Yes, it's impractical, and yes, it's kind of commercial, but she's way cuter than her old, butch design - even if the old design was more realisitic.

This, however, is a travesty.  I want to see some videos, maybe I should have seen them before I wrote this, but Banjo just looks so...nasty.  The innocent, dumb old bear look that made it possible to believe that he'd put up with Kazooie (instead of eating her) is gone.  The cowlick is dumb, they eyes are creepy, the mouth is a little scary.  I actually kind of like the square nose, but the rest is so depressing.

Kazooie's redesign is unecessary but acceptable.  

The real question is whether or not the game will be any good.  It will be labeled a collect-a-thon, but so were the two previous ones.  Unless the collecting is vastly better or worse than in the first two games, I don't want to even hear about it. How is the rest of the game?

Edit: AH HA HA HA.  Saw the trailer.  Still don't like Banjo's design, though it's more tolerable in motion.  But what I found hilarious was how they're so eager to go and collect stuff at the end, like collect-a-thon junkies.
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Deguello

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No way Spak-Spang.  These new designs suck.  The problem is that now Rare ostensibly has enough power with the 360 to basically recreate those old renders in Real-Time in real environments.  the idea that they needed to re-design them is pointless.  He doesn't even have a bear's nose anymore, it's some kind of... tab now.

It's not the same, or even a semblance of the same.  And Remember, this is one of Rare's old franchises and I bet they are counting on people recognizing it from years past, so at least a resemblance to those old games would be necessary.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I am not saying the new designs do not suck.  They suck bad.  

I AM saying both the original designs AND the new designs suck.

Though, I have admit, after watching the video I actually understand what you are complaining about...but it isn't neccessarly the character designs...it is the character PERSONALITIES...which they did completely butcher.  That video did not feel at all like Banjo and Kazooie, in fact it felt anything but.


Offline Ceric

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No one said it and I'm surprised.  They look like Puppets.  From Sesame Street and the like.  Which honestly looking at the originals could have been what the wanted to do to begin with.  I'll admit that I haven't fully played the games, didn't like them from the beginning and felt no need to go farther, but isn't their target audience with that series a younger crowd?  I mean I know if I was younger if I could play characters that looked like puppets from all of my I LOVE HALO 2 shows then I probably be really into it.  Younger Kids is a demographic that MS wants.  They are trying to break the stereotype that the 360 is hardcore and want it to be a family machine.  All while trying to keep there core happy.  Thats a tought act considering they are polar opposites.

Now on the Halo RTS did they announce it would be on the 360 or that it was going to be made?  If just made MS does have this little thing called Windows to run it on.

Also could someone link that oft talked about but never linked video?
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Offline capamerica

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couchmonkey I admit I like Johanna's redesign too, its just to bad the game itself wasn't that great. If they had the orignal team make PDZ with the New redesigned Johanna the game would have rocked.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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I liked the Perfect Dark redesigns as well.

They do look like puppets...and I think that is kinda cool actually.  

Offline UltimatePartyBear

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Who the crap is Johanna?  If that were pronounced the same, I might see cause for confusion, but I hate ranting about spelling, so that's all for now.  I think the new Kazooie looks fine.  She looks much more like what I remember from the original game than the render in Mr. Jack's avatar does.  Banjo has some problems.  I don't think the squarish schnoz would look quite so bad if they hadn't screwed up his eyes so badly.  Those eyes destroy the whole thing.  Also, the bare patch on his chest is actually sticking out beyond the fur on the rest of his body.  It should be the other way around.  The highlights draw the eye right to it, and it looks like he's wearing body armor or something.

Offline KDR_11k

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Kazooie looks like one of those generic bird puppets and Banjo lookls like the mascot of some awful show aimed at kids. Probably a gameshow.

Offline BigJim

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Looks like a bear costume you'd see at a county fair... a bad one.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Is the idea to make Banjo and Kazooie look like sports mascots?  If so well done I guess.  I liked the old way they looked better.  I guess Rare feels they have to redesign their old characters for the Xbox userbase since the old Rare fans are likely still with Nintendo.

What has MS really accomplished by obtaining Rare?  They haven't had a classic game yet and the Xbox fanbase isn't really interested in the types of games they make.  It seems all MS has accomplished is taking a resource away from a competitor.

Offline Athrun Zala

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Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Forgive me for my blunt honesty, but those complains are just lame..


Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor in the Awesome article on Wii and Disruptive Business Strategies topic
...like that HORRIBLE model for Samus in echoes...


Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor in the TP a sell out (even more than before!) topic
So just to make the horrible wii version even more disgusting, Link is... I still cannot believe it... right handed now.


OH! THE IRONY!
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Offline couchmonkey

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Yeah, they do look like they're in costumes.  In fact, my first thought was, "Banjo looks like Barney the Dinosaur, eek!"
That's my opinion, not yours.
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Offline Nick DiMola

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I'm sorry Spak but you are really offbase here. I really don't see what was wrong with the original character design, and I certainly don't see why it sucked. The new one sucks simply because its so different from the old one. Had there never been a previous Banjo game I'd say whatever and it probably wouldn't be a big deal. I just don't get why it's so hard to stick with already designed and created characters. I'm sure if Rare would've stuck with the same character models they could've pulled some Nintendo fans into the 360 experience with just one must have game (assuming they don't tamper with the gameplay either). One of the big reasons I picked up a 360 was for Rare franchises, and sequels to some of my favorite games of all time. I guess we'll see how this one turns out, but I'm a little worried just from the small changes I saw in this video.
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Offline RiskyChris

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Who cares about the designs wait for the final game.

sheesh

Offline capamerica

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Originally posted by: PartyBear
Who the crap is Johanna?  If that were pronounced the same, I might see cause for confusion, but I hate ranting about spelling, so that's all for now.  I think the new Kazooie looks fine.  She looks much more like what I remember from the original game than the render in Mr. Jack's avatar does.  Banjo has some problems.  I don't think the squarish schnoz would look quite so bad if they hadn't screwed up his eyes so badly.  Those eyes destroy the whole thing.  Also, the bare patch on his chest is actually sticking out beyond the fur on the rest of his body.  It should be the other way around.  The highlights draw the eye right to it, and it looks like he's wearing body armor or something.


Joanna Dark is from Perfect Dark
Johanna is from Perfect Dark Zero

Just kidding, I just copied and pasted from his comment and took his spelling error along with it.
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Offline mantidor

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Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Forgive me for my blunt honesty, but those complains are just lame..


Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor in the Awesome article on Wii and Disruptive Business Strategies topic
...like that HORRIBLE model for Samus in echoes...


Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor in the TP a sell out (even more than before!) topic
So just to make the horrible wii version even more disgusting, Link is... I still cannot believe it... right handed now.


OH! THE IRONY!


LOL

I realize that I'd probably noticed the change more if I was a fan of the games, but also I never played Perfect Dark to begin with, and the change there was awful in my eyes nowhere near what is happening here.

and you are aware every funhouse thread is a joke, right?
"You borrow style elements from 20yr old scifi flicks and 10 yr old PC scifi flight shooters, and you add bump mapping and TAKE AWAY character, and you got Halo." -Pro

Offline Spak-Spang

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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
I'm sorry Spak but you are really offbase here. I really don't see what was wrong with the original character design, and I certainly don't see why it sucked. The new one sucks simply because its so different from the old one. Had there never been a previous Banjo game I'd say whatever and it probably wouldn't be a big deal. I just don't get why it's so hard to stick with already designed and created characters. I'm sure if Rare would've stuck with the same character models they could've pulled some Nintendo fans into the 360 experience with just one must have game (assuming they don't tamper with the gameplay either). One of the big reasons I picked up a 360 was for Rare franchises, and sequels to some of my favorite games of all time. I guess we'll see how this one turns out, but I'm a little worried just from the small changes I saw in this video.


But here is the thing...they really haven't changed that much.  

Banjo's original design had a elongated face with a more rounded nose on top.  
The new design carries that elongated face flattens it out alittle, and gives a more square nose (that actually looks pretty good on the face.)

Banjo's eyes in the original are typical large eyed cartoon eyes...and the new Banjo eyes are similar, except for a round patch of light brown fur before the original fur.  The eyes may be slightly smaller, but they don't look that drastically different.

In fact, the whole character design is basically the same...I think perhaps the rendering could have been better.  Bringing the bear chest into the fur instead of extending it out.  

And finally, Kazooie looks much, much better.  She has a much thinner defined bird like body.  That is appealing to the eyes.

The limitations of the original Banjo design are showing through.  As you improve upon it, and use more sophisticated graphics and such, the overalll flaws in the entire character are showing.

It is a big goofy country hick bear with Yellow shorts and a Backpack with a bird in it.  It just doesn't work for me as a character.  The personality isn't interesting, and character concept isn't either.

If someone had grabbed a screen shot from the trailer that was further back, I believe people wouldn't have the same quarrels with it.  

It really isn't that different.  Its not like they gave Batman a White Costume with wings and a bright shiney heart or something.




Offline ThePerm

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wtf is up with rare and their art? it has really gotten shitty since they left nintendo!!
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Offline Nick DiMola

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Spak because you aren't a fan of the game I think you see the changes as subtle rather than huge like a fan would. For instance, I HATE Halo with a passion, if they slightly altered Master Chief I probably wouldn't notice any large amount of difference, but a Halo fan would go bonkers because what they knew and loved was tampered with. I think this situation is quite similar. For those of us who love BK we see a huge change in character and personality, it might be small and subtle to you, but my immediate impression when the video first came on was "What the hell did they do to Banjo!?"

I will agree with you on Kazooie though, she looks much better, and my annoyances don't really have anything to do with her, other than the fact that she should've made fun of Banjo at least once, but that is more of a personality change more than a visual change. Like I said we'll see what happens maybe it won't be a big deal. As long as the gameplay and the personailty is still there I can overlook the visual change of Banjo.
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Offline Kairon

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If you don't mourn the death of modern-day independent-woman, british, mature, real-beauty, I-am-not-a-pin-up, strong-role-model Joanna Dark, then you are a chauvinist.

The day Rare changed Joanna's design, feminism died.

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Offline Bill Aurion

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Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Spak because you aren't a fan of the game I think you see the changes as subtle rather than huge like a fan would. For instance, I HATE Halo with a passion, if they slightly altered Master Chief I probably wouldn't notice any large amount of difference, but a Halo fan would go bonkers because what they knew and loved was tampered with. I think this situation is quite similar. For those of us who love BK we see a huge change in character and personality, it might be small and subtle to you, but my immediate impression when the video first came on was "What the hell did they do to Banjo!?"

Truth!  But the druggie eyes are not so subtle...If they gave him his cute eyes back it'd help a LOT... ;_;
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Spak-Spang

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Quote

Originally posted by: Mr. Jack
Spak because you aren't a fan of the game I think you see the changes as subtle rather than huge like a fan would. For instance, I HATE Halo with a passion, if they slightly altered Master Chief I probably wouldn't notice any large amount of difference, but a Halo fan would go bonkers because what they knew and loved was tampered with. I think this situation is quite similar. For those of us who love BK we see a huge change in character and personality, it might be small and subtle to you, but my immediate impression when the video first came on was "What the hell did they do to Banjo!?"

I will agree with you on Kazooie though, she looks much better, and my annoyances don't really have anything to do with her, other than the fact that she should've made fun of Banjo at least once, but that is more of a personality change more than a visual change. Like I said we'll see what happens maybe it won't be a big deal. As long as the gameplay and the personailty is still there I can overlook the visual change of Banjo.




That is a fair assessment...and very true.  Perhaps I am not the best person to give an opinion, as I am not a fan.

Though Bill, I didn't notice Druggie eyes...his eyes do portray a kinda slower mental personality...like he isn't the brightest bear in the woods, but I didn't see druggie.  Oh well.  It doesn't matter, because it is just another game I won't own...being a single console "poor" gamer.


Offline nitsu niflheim

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Banjo has evil snake devil eyes.  Fits in perfect with XBox crowd.
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