Topic: TRSTS Sales Thread

[Ian Sane]

"people who hate on madden and sports games are usually little nintendo fangirls that are too weak to play sports in real life, so they dont appriciate the video games. so he just made the same assumption about you. dont take it personal.....unless you fit that description."

Does anyone else see the irony of this statement?  "If you don't like Madden you're a weak sissy but hey don't take it personally".  I'd wager that a good 70% of the people who play sports games match the "too weak to play sports in real life" description in that they don't play on any sort of real organized team.

I think the general disliking of annual sports release comes from that fact that those games sell better than games that arguably deserve to sell better which naturally would piss off someone who is passionate about videogames.  You can bring up all the differences between Madden 2003 and 2004 till you're blue in the face but that doesn't change the fact that you're not getting that much of a new experience by purchasing an annual update.  If that money was spent on a shooter or an RPG or a platformer instead then you at least would be spending it on something that provides a completely different experience.

It's like how I like racing games but I've never bought more than maybe three racing games for a console because ultimately, like with any genre including football, there's only so much that can be changed.  If you owned Gran Turismo 3, Mario Kart, F-Zero GX, SSX 3, and Burnout 2 do you really need to buy another racing game as opposed to something different?  Not really because there's only so many variations of the formula to make it worthwhile to spend money on what would be a redundant game.  It's ultimately the same with football.  Do you really NEED to buy Madden 2004 if you already have 2003?  Not really.  It's not like you'll be missing out on some new gaming experience if you don't.  Odds are any new features in 2004 that are actually worthwhile will still be in 2006 so why not wait until then and in the meantime broaden your horizons and support the creation of something new.  Or at the very least change things up by buying Madden one year and a different football game the next.

From a pure gameplay persceptive there is no real reason that a Madden game should be released every year.  If it weren't for roster updates no one would ever buy yearly updates because from a pure gameplay persceptive EA can take three years to really improve the gameplay.  What should happen in the future is a Madden game is released every two or three years and has annual downloadable rosters.  What's funny is I'll bet if that happened a lot of people wouldn't even buy the later version because they could just update the roster for their old game.

A big problem in the industry right now is that companies are afraid to try new things because there are a lot of blind sheep that won't buy anything if it's not from an established franchise.  As a result the market is full of endless sequels.  With annual releases sports games are the absolute worst offender for encouraging this sequel-driven attitude.  Therefore any serious gamer who supports the creation of new content and originality isn't going to be too keen on sports games.  It's because of endless sequel series like Madden that original games like Eternal Darkness, ICO, and Beyond Good & Evil bomb.

[thecubedcanuck]

"It's because of endless sequel series like Madden that original games like Eternal Darkness, ICO, and Beyond Good & Evil bomb. "

Is it? Or maybe its because a large portion of the public doesnt take video games very seriously and has no interest in playing a game that takes 50 hours to complete.
I hate it when people blame games like Madden when titles like BG&E dont sell. Screw the serious gamer, or those who think they are and thus think they know better than anyone else. Madden sells well every year because enough people like to play it, it really is that simple. If enough people wanted to play a 50 hour adventure game then they too, would sell as well, but obviously they dont.
For me personally, I have no problem dropping a measly $50 a year on a game I like, for nothing more than roster changes and a few extra tweaks in gameplay. To me, it is worth it for the amount I time I will spend playing it. With this years Madden, I even get a signifigantly better gameplay experience.

Again this all boils down to personal preferance, and I for the life of me cant understand why so many here are offended by a game that sells well.  

[thecubedcanuck]

"I'd wager that a good 70% of the people who play sports games match the "too weak to play sports in real life" description in that they don't play on any sort of real organized team."

I would think that 70% is outrageously high. I am thinking more like 20%.

[Ian Sane]

"Is it? Or maybe its because a large portion of the public doesnt take video games very seriously and has no interest in playing a game that takes 50 hours to complete."

That has nothing to do with it.  Casual gamers don't look at a game on the shelf like BG&E and think "boy that game's too long" they think "I've never heard of that game so I'm not buying it."  Millions of people buy Final Fantasy games every year and those games are huge so I don't think it's the complexity or game length that is turning people off.  Other RPGs don't usually sell as well as Final Fantasy even if they're made by Square Enix.  The reason for that likely being that Final Fantasy is a very well known "brand" and Disgaea isn't.

Notice I didn't say Madden specifically is the reason other games bomb I said "endless sequel series" which includes series like Madden.  If you don't think that there's too much reliance on sequels in today's industry you're being rather ignorant.  As for why someone would be offended of a cookie cutter sequel series selling better than a new game it's because sales dictate what is made and what isn't in the game industry.  Thus Madden selling well encourages the creation of more cookie-cutter sequels.  BG&E not selling not only kills the potential for any future BG&E games but also discourages the creation of other new games.

[nolimit19]

double post!

[nolimit19]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Is it? Or maybe its because a large portion of the public doesnt take video games very seriously and has no interest in playing a game that takes 50 hours to complete."

That has nothing to do with it.  Casual gamers don't look at a game on the shelf like BG&E and think "boy that game's too long" they think "I've never heard of that game so I'm not buying it."  Millions of people buy Final Fantasy games every year and those games are huge so I don't think it's the complexity or game length that is turning people off.  Other RPGs don't usually sell as well as Final Fantasy even if they're made by Square Enix.  The reason for that likely being that Final Fantasy is a very well known "brand" and Disgaea isn't.

Notice I didn't say Madden specifically is the reason other games bomb I said "endless sequel series" which includes series like Madden.  If you don't think that there's too much reliance on sequels in today's industry you're being rather ignorant.  As for why someone would be offended of a cookie cutter sequel series selling better than a new game it's because sales dictate what is made and what isn't in the game industry.  Thus Madden selling well encourages the creation of more cookie-cutter sequels.  BG&E not selling not only kills the potential for any future BG&E games but also discourages the creation of other new games.

the bit about people not looking at games like BG&E is a good point. however, i believe that part of the reason people dont hear about games like that is because they dont take video games that seriously. when you buy a car, you look into the product, but with things like video games, movies, and music....they dont cost that much and people often buy these things spontaneously. i think its more so with video games because they are not covered as much by the mass media as the other two. video games will one day be on every news channel on a daily basis, but that day hasnt come yet. so now adays people have to LOOK for info on games by themselves, and the average person doesnt care enough to do that. average gamers say.."i want a snowboarding game" and their mom just goes out and gets them one (every time i am at cosco i see about 5 moms asking for advice on which game to get their kid). its an immature industry, but it is growing. back to football though....its just not a very practical sport to play on a daily basis. i play it about once a month at my church. and we usually barely get enough people to play. its a rough sport and a lot of people are scared to play it. madden is a good way to get your football fix imo, and to ME that is worth buying it every year....but like i said, i almost never pay full price for it.

[KDR_11k]

Why can't you add new levels? As long as you leave one stadium map in there those who want it still can have a realistic experience.

[The Omen]

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Do you really NEED to buy Madden 2004 if you already have 2003? Not really. It's not like you'll be missing out on some new gaming experience if you don't. Odds are any new features in 2004 that are actually worthwhile will still be in 2006 so why not wait until then and in the meantime broaden your horizons and support the creation of something new. Or at the very least change things up by buying Madden one year and a different football game the next.

The real question is, why do you care who buys Madden, or how many copies are sold?  The problem isn't Madden selling well, its overlooked games not selling. I dont think theyre related in the least.  Plenty of games sell well, and its not because people stopped buying Madden, or Mario Kart or whatever big name title is out at the time.  

I NEED to buy Madden because i WANT to.  It goes no deeper than that.  I like having updated rosters and a few new features for a game i play about 10 months out of the year.  Me buying Madden does not preclude me from buying Pikmin, or ED or Burnout 2.

[vudu]

but the newest version of madden might prevent a 15 year old kid with no job from experiencing a completely new game instead of a rehash of last year's model.  and the reason i should care about this is because if enough people miss out in a game like beyond good & evil, it's not going to see a sequal.  and, more importantly, developers like ubi soft will look at that and decide not to make new, interesting games.

[thecubedcanuck]

" but the newest version of madden might prevent a 15 year old kid with no job from experiencing a completely new game instead of a rehash of last year's model."

its the kids money to spend as he/she wishes.

"nd the reason i should care about this is because if enough people miss out in a game like beyond good & evil, it's not going to see a sequal. and, more importantly, developers like ubi soft will look at that and decide not to make new, interesting games. "

I can afford BG&E. I looked at it, read the reviews and decided the game is of no interest to me. I bought NHL 2004 instead. Had to have the Heatley cover.

[Mario]

Madden is just a pathetic cash in on a popular sport, released at the right time of the year with the right advertising to attract casual idiots who have no idea which game to buy. They look at it, think "hey, it's football! I like football! That means i will like this game! I'm smart!", and they walk out of the store with their copy of Madden feeling really special. Then next year they do it again, then again, and again. Sure, it may be a good game, but that's what it is, one good game, not five. Owning one Madden game is fune, but I pity the fools who keep buying it over and over again when there are much better things that they could spend their money on. Oh well.

[Kyosho]

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Madden is just a pathetic cash in on a popular sport, released at the right time of the year with the right advertising to attract casual idiots who have no idea which game to buy. They look at it, think "hey, it's football! I like football! That means i will like this game! I'm smart!", and they walk out of the store with their copy of Madden feeling really special. Then next year they do it again, then again, and again. Sure, it may be a good game, but that's what it is, one good game, not five. Owning one Madden game is fune, but I pity the fools who keep buying it over and over again when there are much better things that they could spend their money on. Oh well.

Stores like EB usually give you extra to trade in ur old madden games for the new ones.  So called "casual idiots" who buy these games are usually people who are into sports.  Madden has already made a name for itself since the SNES.  I see no reason why people would not know much about Madden.  When they walk into the store, they aren't even going to look at other games in the first place because simply they don't care for those.  

Conclusion: There are a different types of players for a system, and all must be satisfied in one way or another.  It goes to show you that there are people who LOVE sports similarly to how you LOVE 1st party titles.

[KDR_11k]

BTW, remember that only US americans like American Football. In Europe Madden doesn't sell nearly as well.

[thecubedcanuck]

" Madden is just a pathetic cash in on a popular sport, released at the right time of the year with the right advertising to attract casual idiots who have no idea which game to buy. They look at it, think "hey, it's football! I like football! That means i will like this game! I'm smart!", and they walk out of the store with their copy of Madden feeling really special. Then next year they do it again, then again, and again. Sure, it may be a good game, but that's what it is, one good game, not five. Owning one Madden game is fune, but I pity the fools who keep buying it over and over again when there are much better things that they could spend their money on. Oh well. "

THis is way out of line and totally uncalled for.
Just because you have no interest in something doesnt make it a waste of time. You are clearly showing your age with this comment and I for one would ban you if I had the power too.
If people want to buy Madden every year, it is their choice. If you think I walk into Wal-mart and buy Madden simply because I see "football" on the shelf, then you are sorely mistaken.

[The Omen]

Mario, that is about the most ignorant statement i've read on these forums.  I buy Madden every year.  But i buy many games every year.  Who cares what i spend MY money on?  I buy what i like, not what advertisements tell me to like.  But i guess since BG&E didnt sell, i should just buy it.  If i buy that and not Metal arms, which sold much more poorly, wouldnt i be shunning MA?  

[DrZoidberg]

i didn't realise you made up the entire group of people that bought madden, true story some clownboats buy every sport game every year and that's moronic. say mario came out every year, and only added like a better character model or perhaps 2-3 extra levels, people would get sick of it yes? ofcourse they would becaues it's pretty much the same as the previous version, yet sports games do virtually the same thing and sell very well each year, sure owning 1 - 2 sports games of a particualar sport a generation is fine, but buying every madded AND every nfl 2kX each year is moronic, YES it's your decision and YES it's your money to spend, but that doesn't make it any less moronic.

but oh hay, i'm just a girly nintendo fangirl who doesn't play real sport and i'm probably gay. bring out more original games



oh hay, wasn't this thread about sales not pro / againsed the sporting genre and it's pointless yearly updates?

edit: mostly directed @ cubedcanuck

[Mario]

Well obviously not everyone has that mentality, but i would bet a large percentage of the 3 million people that buy each yearly Madden update (and Fifa in Europe/Australia) are like that.

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Just because you have no interest in something doesnt make it a waste of time.

I know that.

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You are clearly showing your age with this comment and I for one would ban you if I had the power too.

Showing my age? Did you make out a wrinkle in that block of text or something? I don't see it.

How many Madden games do you own cubedcanuck, if you don't mind me asking?

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Mario, that is about the most ignorant statement i've read on these forums. I buy Madden every year. But i buy many games every year. Who cares what i spend MY money on? I buy what i like, not what advertisements tell me to like. But i guess since BG&E didnt sell, i should just buy it. If i buy that and not Metal arms, which sold much more poorly, wouldnt i be shunning MA?

Good for you, i have nothing against your purchases, keep buying what you enjoy. Hurray!

[thecubedcanuck]

Why do you see the need to call people who like sports games casual gamers and morons?

I love sports games, they are by far my favorite genre of games. I am not a casual gamer, I own all 3 systems and have been gaming since the Atari 2600 days, I have a masters degree in finance, I am in my 30's and I buy Madden every year because I like it, because I want to, because I can afford too. It has nothing to do with hype, nothing to do with intelligence, and nothing to  do with casual gaming.
As for your age Mario, no one who is of a mature age would make a comment as ignorant as yours.

[DrZoidberg]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
Why do you see the need to call people who like sports games casual gamers and morons?

I love sports games, they are by far my favorite genre of games. I am not a casual gamer, I own all 3 systems and have been gaming since the Atari 2600 days, I have a masters degree in finance, I am in my 30's and I buy Madden every year because I like it, because I want to, because I can afford too. It has nothing to do with hype, nothing to do with intelligence, and nothing to  do with casual gaming.
As for your age Mario, no one who is of a mature age would make a comment as ignorant as yours.

nono, you miss hte point, ut's people who buy like -every- nfl game -every- year who are morons, buying one or two sports games a generation isn't anything bad, i own FIFA 2003 my self, ubt i wouldn't get 2004 or 2005 either, ther eisn't any point, also who gives a fuck if you have a buisness degree in anything, that doesn't make you any better/worse at anything (well except finance), you may like buying madden every year, but it's still moronic, it's still pretty much the same game, it's not like you would go back to madden 2k3 once owning 2k4, unlike being able to go back to Mario 1 after owning all the others. people who buy every NFL game they can every year are morons, why? because [see every reason in the thread]

[Mario]

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Why do you see the need to call people who like sports games casual gamers and morons?

I don't. I never said they were morons, i said a large percentage of them are idiots, who don't have anything better to buy. I'm not calling you an idiot, i'm not directing anything at you. If Super Mario Sunshine 2 was released, and had nothing but one more function of the water pack, i would not buy it, because i already own Super Mario Sunshine, so i would be paying full price for one new gameplay element, when i could buy say... Pikmin instead, and get hundreds of new gameplay elements i've never experienced before. That is actually a reality with Madden, the updates are so minimal, it feels like the same game. Why pay $50 for one new gameplay element, when you can get 100 for the same price? Eh?

[thecubedcanuck]

"That is actually a reality with Madden, the updates are so minimal, it feels like the same game. Why pay $50 for one new gameplay element, when you can get 100 for the same price? Eh? "

Because I can afford too, and that is how I choose to spend my money. Just because you do not like a game, does not make its purchace by someone who does unjustified. Calling a large number of the people who do buy it idiots is also way off base. Unless you personally have met these people you are basing their intelligence simply on your own biases and ignorance.

If I, or anyone else chooses to buy Madden every year for a few improvements, and updated rosters, it is in no way at all, any business of yours.

[Renny]

Year after year of sports sales gives EA the idea that all franchises should have sequels constantly pumped out. I'd love to see people buying different games, too, but somehow what EA provides is what the majority wants. I send that message to EA by not buying any of their games. Of course they couldn't care less.

[grammar edit]

[Bloodworth]

Wow, this has turned into a huge flame war.  I apologize to the folks that started this thread, but it's getting shut down.  Hey guys, guess who else buys nearly every decent sports game: Billy Berghammer.