Author Topic: Elebits (Read 46574 times)

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #125 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:03:48 AM »

Yeah, the issues aren't with the gameplay or the concept, just that one aspect of it. I think Konami expected that people would find the gameplay so revolutionary that they wouldn't mind doing it over and over and over again which is definitely not the case for me.

I've played some more levels and it's tolerable but it treads the line. All it's going to take is one particularly irritating level to make me say "F*ck it." and be done with the game forever.

The more I think about it, the more I think this was Konami's way of testing the water with a cute tech demo using Wiimote controls: the engine was licensed from the Open Dynamics Engine (which is an open-source project and can therefore be licensed for free), the graphics are blah at best with with rather low-polygon models and dull textures to boot.

I'm guessing Elebits didn't take them more than 5-6 months to create and probably under $100,000 to develop, considering that the engine was free, the graphics are simple, and the gameplay largely revolves around reusing the same levels over and over again with different layouts of the objects.

It's a proof of concept game, for sure, but IMHO, the gameplay in Elebits consists entirely of actions which should be a subset of actions in a larger game. For example, a detective FPS which requires you to search around objects for clues and open doors, activate appliances, etc. could be VERY immersive (Wiinix Wright?).

As a standalone game, though, this is a tech demo, and while it definitely shows off the flair and finesse of the Wiimote, it was made as a test of the waters by Konami and it shows.

Kairon · « **Reply #126 on:** December 19, 2006, 09:42:07 AM »

I wonder exactly how cheap it was for Konami to make this title, and if we'll see a sequel?

Hmmm...

Also, even though you objectively label it as a tech demo, the game really is more than the sum of its parts, much like Wii Sports or Nintendogs.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

ShyGuy · « **Reply #127 on:** December 19, 2006, 09:55:10 AM »

Gears of War is a tech demo.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #128 on:** December 19, 2006, 11:10:02 AM »

Well I am back from my trip and finally got power back on at my house so I could play Elebits. All I can say is WOW, this game is so much fun and definately is a great example of why the Wii is such a unique system. I'm not sure what the complaints are about the visuals, I think they look solid and above all else maintain a pretty decent framerate. When you take into account everything that is going on with the physics, the visuals are even more impressive.

It is getting a tad bit tiring though to hear tech demo applied to his game, Wii sports and even Excite Truck because this is NOT a tech demo. The game is a well polished and fun game that is best played in short doses, like the other games. Honestly I wonder if you guys even know what a tech demo is because it sure seems to be thrown around alot, with only Wiisports being the closest to the term (and not even that close). The game is what it is, a polished hide and seek hybrid that has you frantically trying to collect enough Elebits before the time runs out or trying to beat your high score. I haven't played multiplayer mode yet but I definately think this game is worth the money if you enjoy games that are more focused on high scores than a beginning and a end (which this has as well).

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #129 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:24:42 PM »

From Wikipedia:

Quote
A technology demo is a prototype, rough example or an otherwise incomplete version of a product, put together with the primary purpose of showcasing the idea, performance, method or the features of the product. They can be used as demonstrations to the investors, partners, journalists or even to potential customers in order to convince them of the viability of the chosen approach.

Is Elebits, along with the rest of the Wii games, a tech demo according to the definition given by Wikipedia?

You decide...

Strell · « **Reply #130 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:30:08 PM »

My wang is a tech demo, and your mom is my convention.

WuTangTurtle · « **Reply #131 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:36:44 PM »

Pap64, I'll do just that i just put an order out on Elebits and Elite Beat Agents ($20 off, Thank u Google Checkout).

I'll throw my 2 cents in as soon as i get a good amount of play time with it.

Edit: Emphasis to Pap64's comment instead of Strell.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #132 on:** December 19, 2006, 01:44:17 PM »

I'm sorry if my post seems like its making fun of you guys, I'm actually making fun of the tech demo claims roaming around the Wii games (and VG did say that people didn't know the meaning of the word tech demo).

Again, sorry if the joke offended you, but I didn't mean anything by it.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #133 on:** December 19, 2006, 03:37:59 PM »

Elebits doesn't feel like a complete game to me, honestly. It feels more like something which should have been a $15 indie game download on the VC.

I just don't think there's enough substance there for me to call it a complete game. I'd go so far as to call it the "Luigi's Mansion" of the Wii: it's cute and all, but all it really does is state the obvious facts about the Wii which you would have learned later anyway.

Nick DiMola · « **Reply #134 on:** December 19, 2006, 05:46:36 PM »

I feel like calling Elebits or Luigi's Mansion a tech demo is kind of an unfair label. The games have too much substance to be a tech demo. Perhaps they aren't of the size you may expect from your standard game but they both had a pretty extensive set of levels or rooms. There was though put into the whole production, where a tech demo is bare bones. By the same token, you may as well call Shadow of the Colossus a tech demo because it took a very simple gameplay mechanic and recycled it 12 or so times over.

Calling Wii Play a compilation of tech demos is fair. Wii Sports for that matter too. Of course in many of those cases the final compilation is worth more than the sum of the parts (someone said this in another thread and I agree, Kairon perhaps?). A game like Yoshi Touch and Go is a through and through a tech demo. It has no real substance, besides replay for high score type value. Calling something a tech demo gives such a negative connotation because it makes things sound like a quick cash in. I don't get that impression from Elebits. It has a pretty fleshed out set of features and a respectable number of levels. Luigi's Mansion was one of my favorite Gamecube outings and something so unique that calling it a tech demo is unfair. It seems to me more thought than that for a simple tech demo went into these games. Katamari Damacy comes closer to being a tech demo than Elebits, and I would label KD as one of my favorite and most memorable gaming experiences. Just because someone tested the waters with a new concept/technology doesn't mean the whole experience is a tech demo.

Of course all of this is open to your own interpretation, as pap points out. Something I see as a more than adequate game experience may not be enough for someone else. Value in general is all perception anyway. I think the concept of a tech demo and value are closely knit concepts and an opinion in reqards to value impacts your opinion of it being more or less like a tech demo.

P.S. - SB your avatar is quite humorous. It tells a whole story in one frame. Fantastic.

Kairon · « **Reply #135 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:11:58 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Elebits doesn't feel like a complete game to me, honestly. It feels more like something which should have been a $15 indie game download on the VC.

That's scary. If Elebits is only worth $15 to you, then I wonder what priveleged few games are worth a full $50 or even $40 to you.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #136 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:13:22 PM »

There's no denying that Elebits does feel like a simple game made in order to explore the quirky features of the Wii and its controller. Whether it should be called a tech demo or a full blown game, once again, is up to you.

In that aspect, can Red Steel be called a gun and sword and Wii FPS tech demo? I mean, the game is severely trashed for being rushed and lacking polished, qualities seen mainly on tech demos. How about Zelda? You could say that its a tech demo of how Wii controls can be implemented into an already completed Gamecube game. Monkey ball could be called a tech demo game since from what I heard some of the mini games do not work out as well as they hoped.

Kairon · « **Reply #137 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:16:18 PM »

Well, Monkey Ball is too easy a target.

Anyone remember that Metroid Prime 2 boss battle tech demo? What makes MP3 so different from that after all?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #138 on:** December 19, 2006, 07:21:11 PM »

My question now is, if we can't use the term "tech demo" to describe simple games that plays around with an aspect of the console (whether it be graphics, sound, controls etc.), then what else is there? SB calling Elebits a tech demo proved that not everybody sees simple games as tech demos, so again, what else is there?

Thinking about it, I think SB's definition of tech demo is a game that lacks the polish, depth and substance a big, hyped game would have, a game that isn't worth the full price. 15 to 20 bucks, maybe, but not 50 dollars or more.

I think some of SB's bitterness of the game comes from the fact that he spent money on a game he wasn't 100% satisfied with as he expected more out of it. If you think about it, wouldn't you be a bit annoyed that you spend your hard earned cash on a game that didn't satisfy you?

I think this should teach you to rent games you are not 100% sure of, SB.

What made you buy it anyway? I thought you were on the "I am not so sure about this" bandwagon. Not even I was interested in the game, and I am a sucker for silly little games like Elebits.

Nick DiMola · « **Reply #139 on:** December 19, 2006, 11:26:55 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
My question now is, if we can't use the term "tech demo" to describe simple games that plays around with an aspect of the console (whether it be graphics, sound, controls etc.), then what else is there? SB calling Elebits a tech demo proved that not everybody sees simple games as tech demos, so again, what else is there?

I think the difference between a tech demo and a simplistic game is the amount fo depth. An Elebits tech demo may have been up to about 5 levels demonstrating the gravity gun and the Elebit searching. As it stands there are a ton of features to Elebits including level creation with internet sharing, 4 different types of missions per level (challenge mode missions being new levels entirely), more than simple handling of objects and creative applications of the pointer device, a method for grading which includes replay value, and an increasing challenge as the levels progress. The game is extremely fleshed out. Had it been just a few simple levels where Elebits were randomly placed through the level each time you played, that would be a tech demo. In the mean time, they created a whole game around a probably once tech demo and fully featured it for some value. Just because gameplay is simple or the game is conceptually simple doesn't mean it is a tech demo. Compare Wii Sports to Elebits, Wii Sports has bare bones versions of each sport, just the simple mechanics, nothing extra. You can clearly see the difference in Elebits. There is so much more to the picture.

In conclusion, just because something began as a tech demo doesn't mean it will always be a tech demo. Nintendo had a Kururin tech demo at E3, you can't call the next Kururin game a tech demo just because they tried something neew using the Wiimote. It will be a fully featured game as is Elebits.

(Note: I am not fervently in love with Elebits, I just think to pin the dubious "tech demo" title on it is unjustified.)

vudu · « **Reply #140 on:** December 20, 2006, 07:16:19 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
My question now is, if we can't use the term "tech demo" to describe simple games that plays around with an aspect of the console (whether it be graphics, sound, controls etc.), then what else is there?

How about budget game (i.e. about $20)?

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #141 on:** December 20, 2006, 07:30:31 AM »

"Budget game" is fair.

There just doesn't feel like enough substance to make me continue going back to the game for more, and Rob (roommate) feels the same way. After playing 7-8 levels, I can't see the remaining levels giving me anything that I haven't already experienced in the earlier ones: I move objects, collect elebits, activate appliances...and?

Also, the multiplayer is way too hectic to have any real depth to it, but I admit it's funny to see all the chaos as players hurl things around and try to snatch up elebits when they do show up.

I'm not telling people not to like the game, but I do want to warn folks who aren't big into quirky puzzle games and don't care to replay the same level repeatedly in an effort to get a good score that you probably won't like this game. Rent if you're not sure.

SixthAngel · « **Reply #142 on:** December 20, 2006, 09:48:05 AM »

I have played more of the game and I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Smash Brother. I am past level 20 and I have only lost ONCE do to running out of time. I average 3-4 minutes left on the clock after I have beaten it, giving me time to really dig through the levels. Admittedly the outside levels are less linear and I usually have more time left then the beginning levels that were inside.

You have hardly even gone to any outside levels, zero gravity levels, boss battles, yellow elebits, new powerups and you are doing things like calling it a tech demo and a budget game. If you don't like a game fine, but don't throw out comments that you are in no position to judge.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #143 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:00:09 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel If you don't like a game fine, but don't throw out comments that you are in no position to judge.

Seven levels in, multiplayer, fooling with the level editor = roughly 4 hours total spent with the game and I'm not having fun.

How much more of this game do I need to force myself to play before I can convince people that I don't like it?

My warnings are perfectly valid: gamers who don't enjoy quirky puzzle games should probably rent Elebits or avoid it entirely. This is a far cry from Konami's best work and this doesn't even classify as "support" for the Wii in my book.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #144 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:12:18 AM »

Haha, not support in your book? Just because you don't like the game does not mean it isn't a fun and addictive for others (heck look at the majority of reviews). Personally it is my 3rd favorite Wii game at the moment and I've been having a blast, and I hope to see more games like this for Wii. It is simple, yet intuitive and has even more depth than I anticipated, along with being one of the most fully featured Wii games on the market. Tonight I'm going to try the multiplayer, but so far single player has made this game worth the 50$ I spent on the game.

SixthAngel · « **Reply #145 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:22:39 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel If you don't like a game fine, but don't throw out comments that you are in no position to judge.

Seven levels in, multiplayer, fooling with the level editor = roughly 4 hours total spent with the game and I'm not having fun.

How much more of this game do I need to force myself to play before I can convince people that I don't like it?

I never said it wasn't okay to not like it, I said that is fine and I understand that this isn't the type of game everyone will love. My comment was simply about you calling it a tech demo and a bargain price game when you have hardly played it. You said them mainly because you didn't like the game and not because they fit at all.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #146 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:28:02 AM »

I think SB's comments on renting the game if you are not sure are valid. I mean, 50 bucks is still 50 bucks and it SUCKS to lose them on a game you didn't enjoy at all. This goes for all the games out there. Even if the game gets great reviews and lots of praise there is still a chance that you might not enjoy it, so the safer bet is rent and see what you think.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #147 on:** December 20, 2006, 10:53:40 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: VGrevolution Haha, not support in your book?

What exactly is entertaining enough about this game that people find it worth playing for more than an hour?

Picking up crap and moving it around with the Wii remote isn't so phenomenally entertaining that I could justify calling it a whole game.

This feels like it should be a PART of a bigger game with more depth involved, hence why I keep calling it a "proof of concept tech demo". The concept can DEFINITELY work, yes, but I would have been happy assuming that the concept works and not spending $50 to affirm it because I could probably buy a REAL game at a later date which includes all of the "gameplay" elebits offers and then some.

With THAT said, I will under NO circumstances yield on my warning to people who aren't 100% sure that they will adore the game already to rent it instead of buying it. $50 ain't exactly cheap and I DO feel as though I was burned on the purchase.

I thought Red Steel was a great deal of fun, but I was VERY quick to warn people that it's NOT a game for everyone and advised them to rent it. I will do the same here.

And this is PATHETIC support from Konami: the engine was essentially STOLEN, the graphics are bleh, the voice acting is awful and the levels were just slung together once the editor had been completed. Do you have any idea how little this game must have cost them to make???

I find myself in the ironic situation of hoping it sells well to bolster Wii support but at the same time being afraid that this will be the extent of the effort the think they'll be able to put into their games and still turn a nice profit...

SixthAngel · « **Reply #148 on:** December 20, 2006, 02:21:16 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

With THAT said, I will under NO circumstances yield on my warning to people who aren't 100% sure that they will adore the game already to rent it instead of buying it. $50 ain't exactly cheap and I DO feel as though I was burned on the purchase.

Guess what? No one wants you to take back what you said. I explicity said it was alright to not like the game, yet you are acting like there is some crusade to make you like it. You don't like a game where the object is to catch small critters by exploring the environment. Good, but realize that other people can like a game. When you don't like something it doesn't make it bargain bin trash that is considered no support. Your opinion is not the end all be all. You made comments about your time playing the game and I made comments about how I hadn't experienced these problems (such as having to replay levels.) I'm done arguing now and I'm only going to talk about the game from now on in this thread.

I have surprisingly really liked the no gravity levels. They are so different from the regular ones because the object is opposite most levels. You have to catch the elebits and not move anything if possible because breakable things are everywhere. It makes powerups like the homing ray absolutely necessary but ones like the vaccum gun worthless.
The yellow elebits are great addition as well, forcing you to slam a large object into them in order to break them into smaller, capturable elebits. They are pretty much invincible until you can power up your gun enough to slam a good sized object into them in order to stop them from making noise or throwing stuff.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #149 on:** December 20, 2006, 03:05:02 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
Guess what? No one wants you to take back what you said. I explicity said it was alright to not like the game, yet you are acting like there is some crusade to make you like it.

You mean like this?

News:

Author Topic: Elebits (Read 46574 times)